Brake questions with pics

[alien_scones]

My brakes have been working less and less, and despite my adjustments and a "inspection" by my local RV service, they seem to work less and less.

So I watched a couple videos and decided to inspect myself
{see attachments}

Can I replace the wire alone, or the magnet and wire, or the entire assembly while I'm here?

Is this a common issue?

I'm pretty sure if the service shop had actually inspected the brakes, this issue would have been caught a lot earlier.

Thank you

[slow]

Looks like a good excuse to install self adjusting brakes.

Magnet only would be the least expensive route to take.

[chuckster57]

You can cut/splice the wires if you want to cheap out. I would replace the whole backing plate assembly, and as mentioned go to self adjusting.

[alien_scones]

Thanks for the replies.

My service advisor seems to think all 2012 trailers already have adjustable brakes.

What would be the replacement part # for switching to adjustable brakes? From etrailer.com?

There are very few markings on the existing brakes. "AL-KO" its mounted to the axle with 4 hex bolts?

The drum shows "AL-KO 9012" its 10 inches at its inside diameter, and the shows are 2 1/4 wide.

Will I need a new drum also?

[alien_scones]

The side sticker seems to show this trailer has 4400 lb axles

[slow]

Yes, your current brakes are adjustable, but not self-adjusting.

To confirm your axle rating, find the sticker on the center of the axle.

eTrailer has what you need for parts of full brake assemblies. But you probably do not need new drums.

[JRTJH]

I'm afraid your service manager is wrong. The photos you posted are NOT self adjusting brakes. Here is a comparison so you can see the difference (the adjustment cable) between self adjusting and non-self adjusting brake assemblies.

To find the correct "complete" brake assemblies (I don't recommend buying individual brake shoe sets/magnets and rebuilding them yourself), measure the brake assemblies, total outside diameter and width of the brake shoe pad, and use that to purchase the correct replacements. Most larger cities will have a trailer supply parts store which will have replacement assemblies on the shelf. If you remove one from your trailer and take it with you, you'll be assured of purchasing the correct replacements. Remember there is a difference in the assembly that fits the left and right side of the trailer, so you'll need two of each, not 4 of the same.....

[alien_scones]

Thanks again.

I finally located the brake parts.

I found a spring between the rear bearing seal and the bearing. The spring did not come with the new bearing seal.

Is this important?

[66joej]

Originally Posted by alien_scones

Thanks again.

I finally located the brake parts.

I found a spring between the rear bearing seal and the bearing. The spring did not come with the new bearing seal.

Is this important? Attachment 17244

That spring was to create tension between the lip of the seal and the shaft. Some newer style seals do not have that spring.

[alien_scones]

Well after many delays, multiple trips to different parts stores, breaking new seals, some self inflicted delays, multiple stops due to out of stock items, I am almost 60% done.

I've never gotten myself this dirty, I always pay for someone to do this type of work for me. But after too many visits to the service department and never being satisfied with the results (brake performance wise) I watched several videos and finally decided to at least inspect the brakes myself.

Many thanks to the helpful replies.

I am severely disappointed with my repair shop. I've had them repack the bearings and supposedly inspect the brakes (twice) . Well it seems that repacking the bearings only includes squirting new grease into the the grease fitting and no more. I've had them perform this twice and during the work I've done this weekend so far I've found 3 different colors of grease in the bearings and seals. They never cleaned out the existing bearings / seals. If they did then they would have noticed the brake wire shorting inside the brake drums, and there would only be one or two shades of bearing grease.

So far I've discovered 4 shorts including an external fried wire.

I don't want to come out and say my service department cheats customers as a policy, but there are definately mechanics out there looking to take shortcuts, bill an hour for 10 minutes of work, and my service department isn't doing much on the surface to weed these people out.

I confronted my service advisor yesterday in person and showed him pics of the wire shorts inside the brake drums. He agreed those should have been caught during the requested brake inspections. He ended up giving me a decent discount on the adjustable brake kits. That's all good but I'd rather the brakes be working in the first place and I could have gone fishing with my son this weekend instead of learning a skill I will probably never use again.

I won't call out the name of the service place but it shouldn't be that difficult to figure who it is. And most of my experiences there have been of value. But that doesn't matter during a panic stop and the trailer behind you is pushing you in a different direction than you want to go. I'll send the top level manager a link to this article so he is aware of my rant.

I'm hoping I can close this tooic tomorrow with pictures of skid marks in front of my house.

Pics of today's shorts attached.

[mcomeaux]

I would certainly show pictures to Service Manager and make them aware before someone gets hurt due to not stopping....

[jsmith948]

Well, you must be a forgiving and understanding person and an all around good guy. I don't know what kind of discount they gave you on the parts - but - I would have asked, in a direct and persistent manner (demanded) to talk to the main boss - owner, general manager, whomever is running the show. I would have shown him the photographic proof of his shop having cheated me (charged for work not being done) and I would have left there with a check for the amount they charged for said undone work. If that didn't happen, I would be in contact with whatever agency regulates auto/vehicle repair facilities in your state - maybe even the state attorney general's office. What your service guy did to you is unacceptable.
Added on edit: Do yourself a favor and find someone else to do your service work.

[JRTJH]

Well Stated.... It sure looks like a situation where the work charged didn't equal the work performed...... I'd be very upset if it was my trailer (and my wallet)...

alien_scones, Not to send you on another "parts run", but if you haven't thought past the electrical connections on the new brake assemblies, you might want to head to (or stop by) your local NAPA for some waterproof scotch butt connectors. The brake wiring under your trailer is exposed to very wet conditions and Keystone "cheaps out" by not using waterproof connectors. They typically use "crimp butt connectors" which can allow for (or cause) corrosion at the wire splices. Using waterproof connectors will eliminate that potential and protect your wire splices, usually for the life of the wiring. At 20 cents each, money well spent (IMHO)....

Here's what you'd be looking for at NAPA. Remember, the color is either red, blue or yellow, depending on the wire size.

[alien_scones]

I did visit napa as one of my stops. They were the most helpful.

I did use some heat shrink waterproof crimps. On others I soldered the connections and put them in waterproof caps.

I'm hopeful the wiring was correct in the first place. I was very careful in making sure I replaced the wires in place.

Any suggestions on hanging the wires to the suspension or frame? Previously the wires just seem to hang, waiting to get caught on something I drive over.

[sourdough]

Here's hoping you've about got everything fixed and it works out when you try it.

On the other side; I would encourage you to take your pictures, bills etc. for the "work" (or lack thereof) previously performed and sit down one on one with whoever runs the RV place. What they did is unacceptable, wrong and actually dangerous. A person should be able to have confidence when something like that is done, that it is in fact "done" and not have to tear everything down to inspect to verify they did what they said. Absolutely wrong. What if you had the work done and took off on a cross country trip and had an incident on a freeway that required emergency evasive action? With your family with you? Nope, the owner/GM/senior manager (whoever) would get the pleasure of visiting with me and explaining why his service dept. just tried to kill me and mine.

[alien_scones]

Well, I finished and I got nothing. No drag.

I do hear the brake magnets click - which is new, they never clicked before... so they are getting power. The new wiring doesn't appear to be melting.

The only thing I suspect - when I was looking at the brake kit, I played with the action, and appeared to self-adjust it too much that the brake hub would not fit back on it. So I "wound back" the adjustment wheels... on all of them.... Perhaps too much. My thinking is they would self adjust eventually.

I think I collectively hit the brakes and pinched the brake controller about 100 times while moving at 5 to 10 mph. Still nothing.

I'm going to switch tow vehicles and try again.

Does anyone have any ideas how these self adjusting brakes actually self adjust? Do I need to back up and brake to adjust them?

There weren't any instructions or safety guides in the box.

[JRTJH]

I wouldn't make any further adjustments for a while. Trailer brakes work by "expanding" against the inner surface of the hub. To "maximize braking action" the shoes need to "wear in" and fit the grooves/angles of the hub. It will take several "hard braking actions" for this to occur. Additionally, it will take several "forward braking actions" for the self adjusters to properly adjust the shoes before any "hard braking action" can occur.

You've got two different "actions" that need to happen before you have any significant ability to apply braking action. It'll take several stops to get the adjusters adjusted, then it'll take several "hard braking actions" to burnish the shoes to the hub surfaces.

As long as the magnets are "clicking" then the brakes should start adjusting and then subsequently start burnishing.....

You can "hurry along the process" by using the adjusting wheel to initially adjust the self adjusters, but if you've already got the trailer off the jacks and hitched, I'd let the system "catch up to itself"... May take what seems like a lengthy time, but it should start working better after 50-100 miles.

I'm guessing that you did properly clean the inside of the hub surfaces with brake cleaner/acetone and then lightly sand them with emery cloth before you put things back together?

[alien_scones]

Thanks for the reply.

Are the magnets grabbing alone enough to perform any self adjustment ? There is zero braking with the trailer now, so I don't see how a hard brake adjustment is possible at the moment.

What speed should I be pinching the brake controller? I've gone around the block twice, with about 50 pinches.

I just watched the etrailer video and he shows to do an initial adjustment where there is a slight drag but no more. It looks like a real pita if you go too far.

I did clean out the drum with brake cleaner but I did not sand the drum. I'll look into that if they come off again.

Thanks

[chuckster57]

When we do new backing plates, even with self adjusters we try to set the adjustment so you get about 1 1/2 revolutions of the tire. I’ve personally never really liked that, and I like to use the “other” method I was taught. Adjust til they lock up, back off 5 clicks.

New shoes on existing drums take a while as John stated, to really work good. I would adjust them until they just started to drag and then take it out and burnish them in.

And for the record, when I read about what some service departments do, it makes me mad that some people think we all do it. YELP is a fabulous tool anymore, I’ve seen it hurt/help first hand.

[sourdough]

Backing them off may have moved the adjusters a long way from where the shoes will contact the drum. I think the only way to use the manual adjustment is to have the wheels off the ground so you can turn the tire as you adjust them so you know where you're at. If that isn't an option I think doing what you're doing, just driving around slowly hitting the brakes to adjust them is probably about as good as it's going to get. Just roll down the windows and start waving to everyone as you go round and round the block! Hopefully it won't take too long but it sounds like the brakes are working right...just a long way to adjust. When completely backed off it takes a pretty long time to adjust the little wheel to get the brakes back with a manual adjustment.