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Old 04-01-2018, 05:51 PM   #1
Srydman
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Not the same old GFCI question.

Hello.
Background on the 5th wheel.
2001 Keystone Challenger 36KTB.
50 AMP service.
Dilemma: While I was replacing my ceiling fan ( I did not turn the power to the fan off, stupid) the hot (Black wire) grounded out onto the metal bracket. Sparks flying. 15 amp circuit breaker popped like it should have. Now for the problem. After re setting the circuit breaker not much is working. Only the GFCI that I can find is working.(bathroom). This GFCI runs the bathroom and kitchen. All outlets in the living room, bedroom, entertainment center, fridge do not work. Strange. After using my multi meter trying to isolate the problem everything seems to be grounded out like a second GFCI has been tripped. I have looked everywhere for a second GFCI with no luck. Outside, inside, basement,behind the fridge, you name it I have looked. Quite frustrating. Tbis was an easy upgrade that has now been 2 days of head aches. Any advice?
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:28 PM   #2
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When you say everything seems to be grounded out what do you mean. A GFCI won't ground out a circuit. It simply trips if it senses a ground fault. I'd check the breaker and make sure it's reset and then check for voltage at the breaker and go from there.

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Old 04-01-2018, 06:42 PM   #3
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If you have an exterior outlet, check it for GFI reset.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:10 PM   #4
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Make sure you have fully switched all the circuit breakers to the full off position, and then fully switch them back to on. Many times, these breakers will trip but not show much or any movement at the handle that they tripped. Also check the main breaker in the RV as well as the service breaker in the panel that feeds the shore cord outlet.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:22 PM   #5
Srydman
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What I mean by "seems to be grounded out". When I check the AC voltage at the circuit breaker I get 120 volts. (Hot buss to beaker output) that is what I expect to see, so everything is good so far. When I do a continuity test to follow the wires to the outlets that are not working (wich was a lot of work) I get NO voltage to the outlets at all and each of the three wires (black hot, white nutral, and ground) all seem dead. Somewhere in that line there has to be a second GFCI that I can not find. I have replaced all circuit breakers and the GFCI in the bathroom. I have continuity checked every wire in the 5th wheel when it has been disconnected from the power. I now know where every 110vac wire goes and what is supposed to power. Yet I still have most outlets not working. As for checking outside. I have checked in the basement, water heater area, fridge area,furnace area, everywhere there could possibly be an opening. There is only one outlet outside and it is not a GFCI and is working perfectly. I am confused.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:50 PM   #6
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“When I check the AC voltage at the circuit breaker I get 120 volts. (Hot buss to beaker output) that is what I expect to see.” May be just semantics but hot bus to breaker output should measure 0 volts if the breaker is on. Need to measure breaker output to ground or neutral. Or maybe just misread?
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:53 PM   #7
Steveo57
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I wouldn't expect to see outlets for the areas you mentioned to be GFCI protected. Additionally if it had a GFCI outlet it should have tripped instead of the breaker. So I'm thinking there's no GFCI in the circuit.

Did you get the new fan all installed and connected back up? Is there anything powered off of that circuit that's working? If nothing else has power I'd check the first device in the circuit. You might have to pull it out and check for power at the wire. Knowing how sloppily they put things together if they used a backstab connection at a receptacle or switch it might just be a bad connection causing an open in the circuit.

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Old 04-02-2018, 02:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srydman View Post
I have replaced all circuit breakers and the GFCI in the bathroom.
You placed the GFCI?
Do you have any other outlets working that is also controlled by that breaker?

I think Steveo57 might be right, you have a back stabbed outlet somewhere that took a hit. Pull every outlet, even the working ones to see if you have a loose/open wire.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srydman View Post
What I mean by "seems to be grounded out". When I check the AC voltage at the circuit breaker I get 120 volts. (Hot buss to beaker output) that is what I expect to see, so everything is good so far. When I do a continuity test to follow the wires to the outlets that are not working (wich was a lot of work) I get NO voltage to the outlets at all and each of the three wires (black hot, white nutral, and ground) all seem dead. Somewhere in that line there has to be a second GFCI that I can not find. I have replaced all circuit breakers and the GFCI in the bathroom. I have continuity checked every wire in the 5th wheel when it has been disconnected from the power. I now know where every 110vac wire goes and what is supposed to power. Yet I still have most outlets not working. As for checking outside. I have checked in the basement, water heater area, fridge area,furnace area, everywhere there could possibly be an opening. There is only one outlet outside and it is not a GFCI and is working perfectly. I am confused.
Couple of questions, starting with the power coming in. Are you connected to 50 amp service? If not (if using a dogbone adapter to 30 or 15 amp), about 1/2 of the ac circuits will be disabled. You stated continuity test resulted in no voltage. Continuity checks that the wire or device that you are checking has continuity, that is done with an ohm reading and does not check for voltage. What was your meter set on? You stated that you traced out every single wire. If you have done this then draw a schematic and where the last point where voltage was present should be your starting point to examine where the failure is. As stated by others the stab connections (where the wire is shoved into an outlet or switch vs a screw securing the wire) can be problematic. Take the last known powered outlet or switch in the circuit out first and check that voltage is passing thru to the wire going to the next outlet.
Hope this helps, let us know if you solve this so others can learn from your experience.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:18 AM   #10
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If you have not already I would go to the power distribution panel and make sure you have 110 VAC at the output terminals of each AC breaker. Then since you have a good idea how individual plugs are wired I would step through checking power to each plug starting with the one closest to the breaker. In the event you have no power at the output of the breaker make sure you have power on the breaker input terminals and reset that breaker. As stated by others you may have to pull each outlet to check the wiring on the device. Let us know what you find.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Couple of questions, starting with the power coming in. Are you connected to 50 amp service? If not (if using a dogbone adapter to 30 or 15 amp), about 1/2 of the ac circuits will be disabled. You stated continuity test resulted in no voltage. Continuity checks that the wire or device that you are checking has continuity, that is done with an ohm reading and does not check for voltage. What was your meter set on? You stated that you traced out every single wire. If you have done this then draw a schematic and where the last point where voltage was present should be your starting point to examine where the failure is. As stated by others the stab connections (where the wire is shoved into an outlet or switch vs a screw securing the wire) can be problematic. Take the last known powered outlet or switch in the circuit out first and check that voltage is passing thru to the wire going to the next outlet.
Hope this helps, let us know if you solve this so others can learn from your experience.
I think most adapters power up both sides of the 50 amp plug so you have full service just at a limited amperage. What good would an adapter be that only fed one side of your panel?

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Old 04-02-2018, 01:19 PM   #12
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I think most adapters power up both sides of the 50 amp plug so you have full service just at a limited amperage. What good would an adapter be that only fed one side of your panel?

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The 50 amp service for rv's is actually 2 - 50 amp 120 volt legs that are a split phase, just as they are in a home with 240 volt panel. There are 4 wires on the plug, 2 are "hot" legs, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. A 30 amp rv plug has 1 "hot" leg, 1 neutral and 1 ground. When you have a 50 amp plugged into a 30 amp service that leaves one "hot" or load not powered. Not knowing how or where the unit is plugged in if the OP has a homemade adapter (I've seen this before in campgrounds) or if he has an outlet at home that is incorrectly wired or a pedestal that has one leg that has dropped out. I didn't clarify that in my original reply, was trying to get more info to help him out as it didn't seem clear to me where he was getting his readings. I'm old school where you check the simple stuff first.
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Old 04-02-2018, 03:00 PM   #13
Steveo57
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
The 50 amp service for rv's is actually 2 - 50 amp 120 volt legs that are a split phase, just as they are in a home with 240 volt panel. There are 4 wires on the plug, 2 are "hot" legs, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. A 30 amp rv plug has 1 "hot" leg, 1 neutral and 1 ground. When you have a 50 amp plugged into a 30 amp service that leaves one "hot" or load not powered. Not knowing how or where the unit is plugged in if the OP has a homemade adapter (I've seen this before in campgrounds) or if he has an outlet at home that is incorrectly wired or a pedestal that has one leg that has dropped out. I didn't clarify that in my original reply, was trying to get more info to help him out as it didn't seem clear to me where he was getting his readings. I'm old school where you check the simple stuff first.
I understand that. I just wanted to clarify that even if he's using a dogbone adapter from a 30 amp or 15 amp source that he should have power to all of his AC circuits and that none of them should be disabled. The adapters will power up both sides of the 50 amp plug.

Hopefully the OP is able to figure this out.

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Old 04-03-2018, 06:44 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Steveo57 View Post
I understand that. I just wanted to clarify that even if he's using a dogbone adapter from a 30 amp or 15 amp source that he should have power to all of his AC circuits and that none of them should be disabled. The adapters will power up both sides of the 50 amp plug.

Hopefully the OP is able to figure this out.

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This^^^^^^. Our Laredo is wired for 50 amp service. It is plugged into a 30 amp pedestal using a 50 amp to 30 amp dog bone adapter - not home made - purchased at an RV supply. All the circuits in our trailer have power. We are simply limited to 30 amps and have to pick and choose what we can run - like we did when out trailer was 30 amp.
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