Safety chain enhancement?

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

There are several news accounts of loose trailers, running into other vehicles and causing injury and death. Would not want to be on the receiving end of that lawsuit.

Considering the "Litigation" state of America these days I would not modify the safety feature of the trailer. This will leave you with sole ownership in any lawsuit. I'm not an attorney, however having a couple decades of construction and facilities management experience in the retail/restaurant industry I've had to testify in numerous personal injury lawsuits. I can just hear the lawyer asking "Where did you get your training to modify this?" or "What laboratory did you use to verify that your modification meets highway safety standard XXX?"

God forbid if an accident of that magnitude should happen to me, I'll leave those questions for the manufacture and their engineers.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Considering the "Litigation" state of America these days I would not modify the safety feature of the trailer. This will leave you with sole ownership in any lawsuit. I'm not an attorney, however having a couple decades of construction and facilities management experience in the retail/restaurant industry I've had to testify in numerous personal injury lawsuits. I can just hear the lawyer asking "Where did you get your training to modify this?" or "What laboratory did you use to verify that your modification meets highway safety standard XXX?"

God forbid if an accident of that magnitude should happen to me, I'll leave those questions for the manufacture and their engineers.

Isn't that "sort of" like building a house with all the 2x4's left in 8' lengths because "modifying them to fit properly" might cause the owner a "problem" and it's better to leave the length in the hands of the sawmill???

In this situation (the breakaway cable length), if the cable is left "too long", it won't function before the safety chains are at maximum extension. That is a safety hazard and intentionally not doing anything about a "known safety issue", it is, at best, negligence and, depending on the state in which you "litigate" the accident, you could be facing wrongful death charges or even worse. If you don't feel "comfortable" adjusting the cable to the proper length, at least have a competent service department do it for you.

A 6' standard accessory breakaway cable that's installed on a trailer with 3' safety chains simply won't "do its job" should the "unspeakable" occur. Leaving it like that, knowing that it's too long, to avoid litigation ???

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Isn't that "sort of" like building a house with all the 2x4's left in 8' lengths because "modifying them to fit properly" might cause the owner a "problem" and it's better to leave the length in the hands of the sawmill???

In this situation (the breakaway cable length), if the cable is left "too long", it won't function before the safety chains are at maximum extension. That is a safety hazard and intentionally not doing anything about a "known safety issue", it is, at best, negligence and, depending on the state in which you "litigate" the accident, you could be facing wrongful death charges or even worse. If you don't feel "comfortable" adjusting the cable to the proper length, at least have a competent service department do it for you.

A 6' standard accessory breakaway cable that's installed on a trailer with 3' safety chains simply won't "do its job" should the "unspeakable" occur. Leaving it like that, knowing that it's too long, to avoid litigation ???

What you are referencing is an adjustment and you are correct. Using your analogy it's more like using 2X4 s when and architect says you require 2 x 8 s.To clarify, welding a new mounting point for the chains I believe is a modification. If your family was injured or died of a result of a trailer breaking loose due to someone modifying a safety feature I can only postulate who your attorney, and probably the states attorney, would seek out to penalize. Again, I'm no attorney so if you have a question consult one. Personally, I'm not willing to roll the dice on that.

[notanlines]

I think I'll jump on John's bandwagon on this little argument. (and before I go any further let me say that it is this kind of dialog that makes this forum so interesting) I believe that if the typical RV owner has it in their capacity to rotate tires, grease bearings and replace brake shoes then it only seems that again the typical owner should be able to shorten their breakaway cable. I don't know of a soul who has welded new chain attachment points on their frame, but I guess we'd have to "have a look" as the saying goes.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by audio1der

While camping with my inlaws, my FIL nearly fell over when he saw the dinky little loop which holds the safety chains to the front on the frame, below the ball. He asked if I thought that would hold if the trailer was being pulled violently by the chains, which I had wondered about.

Has anyone changed the mounting point of their safety chains on the trailer frame, perhaps using grade 8 hardware to secure the chains to the frame in a more "secure manner"?
I have attached a photo looking straight down on how his chains are secured to his frame for reference. I am thinking of doing something similar.

I was just looking at your father in-law's set up again. I didn't pay much attention to it initially because I personally don't see a need to modify the safety chains. I just noticed that he used grade 5 not grade 8 bolts. Depending on the size of the trailer that may be sufficient, but it is significantly less capability than grade 8.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by audio1der

While camping with my inlaws, my FIL nearly fell over when he saw the dinky little loop which holds the safety chains to the front on the frame, below the ball. He asked if I thought that would hold if the trailer was being pulled violently by the chains, which I had wondered about.

Has anyone changed the mounting point of their safety chains on the trailer frame, perhaps using grade 8 hardware to secure the chains to the frame in a more "secure manner"?
I have attached a photo looking straight down on how his chains are secured to his frame for reference. I am thinking of doing something similar.

This is what I was referencing in the original post, which I thought was the point of the comments that followed, helping the original poster. Later on Laredo291OH remarked that he had welded saftey chains on a trailer. In no way would I dispute the correct adjustment to the length of the safety chains, cables, or brake activation cable. The point being that I am of the opinion that there is a very real difference between replacing/ upgrading parts and changing an engineered, tested, and DOT approved safety device. Opinions are like our personal seating device, everyone's got one!

[notanlines]

I pulled out one of my old (and I do mean old) engineering textbooks from "Strength of Materials 101" and to boost Brent's statement, 1/2 inch bolts are as follows for working strength: Grade 2 (your standard hardware bolt) is 8,000 pounds, grade 5 (three marks on the head) 12,000 pounds and grade 8 (5 marks on the head) 17,000 pounds.
Yes, I believe I would have used a grade 8 if available. The cost is certainly not a factor. And also keep in mind that we all have opinions, that is what brings most of us back.

[Tbos]

Here's an interesting note to add in this conversation is that with my equalizer hitch and sharp turns like when I turn around in my court or back into a tight campsite the hitch will contact the bar and or the chain links to the point where it damages them. Given that, I'm going to move the chains back on the frame and attach them with Grade 8 bolts.

[mfifield01]

Originally Posted by Tbos

Here's an interesting note to add in this conversation is that with my equalizer hitch and sharp turns like when I turn around in my court or back into a tight campsite the hitch will contact the bar and or the chain links to the point where it damages them. Given that, I'm going to move the chains back on the frame and attach them with Grade 8 bolts.

I have the exact same problem that probably needs to get addressed. Right now, I try to minimize sharp turns.

[chuckster57]

Your not the first, and it's not limited to Keystone. Seems we have seen this on other brands with the equalizer hitch.

[Campy]

The bolts have nothing to do with the strength of the attachment as clearly the 1/8 inch plate they are through is weaker than grade 5 hardware. The fact that is missing is the chain is a continuous length and wrapped around the jack post so it would pull against the jack which is way stronger.
Cutting and welding on a trailer frame clearly makes "you" the manufacturer and would shift all liability your way. Working on boats for 35 plus years I have seen some scary sh*t with safety chains as well as cables, like 10k pound safety cables bolted to a trailer frame with 1/2 grade 8 hwd which is ok but only bolted through one side of thin wall box tube 1/2 inch from the cut edge, the bolts would rip right out!

[Tbos]

Campy,
That 8th" steel is welded to and helps hold the frame together. Do you have a suggestion on a better way/place to attach them for those of us that need to move the chains? Is there a way to beef up that plate? Some of our hitches hit and damage the chains and OEM attachment point. Moving the chains is eventually an essential change on our TTs. Thanks.

[Campy]

Originally Posted by Tbos

Campy,
That 8th" steel is welded to and helps hold the frame together. Do you have a suggestion on a better way/place to attach them for those of us that need to move the chains? Is there a way to beef up that plate? Some of our hitches hit and damage the chains and OEM attachment point. Moving the chains is eventually an essential change on our TTs. Thanks.

I am not completely sure how you are damaging the chains with your hitch? What is hitting them? Placed like the original photo, which has the chain behind the jack post they should come around to the front and cross on the front side of the jack and connect to the truck hitch. Proper length would be if you lifted the trailer off the ball and let it drop the crossed chains would carry the tongue and not let it hit the ground and drag. A lot of chains are way too long and would let the trailer drag on the ground and increase the loading on the chains or their attachment points to failure if the trailer "dug into" the road. Think about what has to happen if the trailer were to pop off the hitch ball, think about the drop and what the trailer could or would do. Keep all this in mind considering the fact that most use a weight distributing hitch which has a lot more hardware that has to fail for the trailer to come off the ball even if you did not latch the coupler the spring bars are forcing it on there with great force. I think the failure point is the actual hitch "pin" allowing the whole hitch to slide out with the spring bars as well, proper length chains should not allow the hitch to slide all the way out in the event of pin failure or loss. Sorry to be long winded here these are things often overlooked as the manufacturer just supplies a length of chain not always the proper length, that's why I hate cables, they can not be adjusted as nobody would have the proper tools to cut and re-crimp cables.

[Tbos]

Campy,
On some TT the OEM welded a small round piece of round iron bar just behind and below the coupler. The bar goes through the chains before it is welded. Equalizer hitch heads can and do hit the chains and the bar when making sharp turns. This is my 2nd TT with this problem. I moved the chains on my previous one to the holes shown in the photo someone else posted. I did use #8 hardware and made sure the chains were correct length. On my current TT I used zip ties to move the links on the bar as far back as possible to reduce the hitch hitting them. Occasionally it still does. I would think the hitch would make the chain slide or bend the bar up. It doesn't, it cuts into them and that is why some of need to move them. I'll try and take a picture this weekend.

[Campy]

Not real sure why the factory would weld on something that would tangle in the hitch, that's not thinking things through. However if that's the case I would consider redesigning the mounting system for sure. Just keep in mind some of the info I listed above and remember to make things stronger than needed to be safe and factor in turns and other issues that might crop up.

[Tbos]

Here's a picture of the way my chains are currently attached. You can see the damage that has started.