Over GVWR on Ram 1500 - Safety Issue?

[AussieCanadian]

So firstly, let me be the first to admit my own mistake of not checking the facts (weight ratings) thoroughly enough. Hard lesson to learn.

We have just purchased a brand new (Aug '15 build date) Ram 1500 Sport Crew Cab 4x4 (5.7L Hemi, 8 Spd, 3.92s rear end). We were at the end of our F150 lease, so was in the market for a new truck anyway, and settled on this one. It will serve as our tow vehicle every weekend in spring/summer/fall (towing around 300km per trip), towing our 25' Passport 2400 TT, as well as my daily driver.

So, why the mistake? One word - PAYLOAD. This truck, as configured in Sport trim has a door sticker payload of only 1,328lbs, and a GVWR of 6,900lbs. Below is what I have worked out with the weights since purchasing, and as you can see, I am going to be OVER the GVWR of the Ram by 220lbs. GCW looks ok, but it's GVW that concerns me, and the overall stress on the truck, suspension, brakes and most of all how SAFE it will tow?

Loaded Truck Weight: 6,450lbs (all in)
Loaded Hitch Weight: 670lbs (again, all in propane and 2 batteries)
TOTAL GVW: 7,120lbs (220lbs over rated capacity).

Trailer Weight (again, fully loaded): 5,920lbs
TOTAL GCW: 13,220lbs (note, this is actually UNDER rated capacity by 2,000lbs).

I am seriously considering trading up to a 2500, but before I do that, I wanted to source some other opinions on whether being over GVWR alone is something which should warrant trading up, which is going to cost me around $10k. Some questions I am pondering:

1) Is being 220lbs over GVWR really a big concern from a safety perspective, given i'm still well within the overall GCWR?

2) How good are the brakes on a Ram 1500 vs a 2500? "emergency stop" is a scenario that's been on my mind.

3) I've seen Ram 1500's towing much bigger TT's than ours so I can't be the only half ton driver who is towing over GVWR?

Thoughts anyone? Would appreciate all opinions. Thank you. PS - if anyone is in the market for a brand new loaded 1500 sport crew in Canada (AB) please let me know!!

[sourdough]

Well.....This topic has been discussed many, many times on this forum and others and responses are all over the place.

I've been where you are and I bought a new truck while others wouldn't. Will it pull it? Sure. Is it safe? Probably not. Last year I was passed by a 3/4ton Ford F250 driving 80 mph in the rain pulling a triple axle 5th wheel (probably in excess of 40') with the bed of his truck about to scrape the pavement. He could do it, he was GREATLY overloaded and probably thought he was safe?....but.....

To me the weight ratings are in different categories for a reason. You need to meet them all to be truly safe. Only 220 over on GVW probably isn't the end of the world; unless you're in an accident and you're checked; then you may have legal issues - or someone, maybe your own family, is injured.

The achilles heel of a Ram 1/2 ton is payload. Having driven mine (1/2 ton - along with many others in the long past) over payload I can tell you that it does affect the handling/stopping etc. Some will tell you to put airbags on (I did) but they don't do a thing for your ability to increase loads. The question is one for you to answer; to keep you, your family and others on the road as safe as you can or to "fudge" and hope for the best. I thought I would be OK. Mentally it drove me crazy because I couldn't stop thinking about hurting my wife, puppy or some innocent someone due to my own negligence.

3/4 ton vs 1/2 stopping power. The 3/4 has bigger brakes which work better plus an additional factor as far as pulling your trailer...size. My 1/2 (and I suspect yours) weighed about 5300lbs, the 3/4 is about 7000lbs (both unloaded). The trailer can't manhandle the 3/4 like it did the 1/2. You can also look at the suspension - no comparison. Downside - the 3/4 rides like a truck vs a car ride in the 1/2.

You've made the mistake many folks make. In my case I knew what I was doing but thought I could handle it (mentally). As much as I intended to pull the trailer I ultimately couldn't justify taking the risk.

My suggestion: get the 3/4 and fork over the 10k (I did). You will sleep better and feel better after a long drive. Some will suggest just going on up to a one ton since it's only about $500 or so. That might be something you want to think about but I'd go 3/4 at least for safety's sake.

Let the comments begin............

[nesparky]

3/4 ton rams have coils in the rear just like your 1/2 ton, ride is better but still stiffer than the little truck. Lol. Stock gears on the 2500 and 3500 srw are 3.42 so fuel milage is pretty good for a truck that size.
3500's are still leaf springs, but you can get optional air ride on it.
You can also get the factory 5th wheel setup in the heavy duty trucks. Look at the Cummins, well worth the money.

[cw3jason]

Is your loaded truck weight with trailer attached? If it is, you do not need to add the trailer tounge weight again. It's hard for me to grasp with only a 670lbs tounge weight you could be over on your payload of 1328 when truck is loaded. How much stuff are you carrying in the bed of the truck? Transfer some of that to the trailer if you can. Seems you have plenty of weight to spare there.

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[gtsum2]

I had a 2013 ram 1500 Laramie loaded and door sticker was 1061!!! It crushed me when I was looking at similar sized trailers. The ram 1500 with rear coil springs has a very soft ride and is not the best match for a moderate sized trailer. One time I had a mid sized quad in the bed and towed a trailer with 2 full sized quads and here adults in the truck to the mountains of west va....I didn't like how the truck handled at all....I ended up selling mine after one year and ordered a 3500 cummins to alleviate my concerns (and promptly bought a toy hauler that is pushing the max limits..haha)

I think you can do it, but I doubt it would be real enjoyable towing that weight. A 3/4 ton is going to be much more stable and capable


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[Hoojs12840]

220lbs isn't going to make it less safe. If tow vehicles where that fragile you would see and find articles and lawsuits all day long. If theirs a 100 campers in a campground 50-60% are exceeding something. Never seen one stopped at a weight station or pulled over for it.

Would a 2500 or 3500 tow nicer? Sure Diesel? Even better. Safer? Not factually accurate. "Feeling" safer and being safer are two completely different things. One could argue over confidence causes it's fair share of accidents.

If you tow occasionally but drive it by itself regularly get the 1/2 ton. You are not endangering anyone.





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2013 GMC Sierra 2500 CC 4WD
2016 Jayco Northpoint 377RLBH

[AussieCanadian]

Originally Posted by cw3jason

Is your loaded truck weight with trailer attached? If it is, you do not need to add the trailer tounge weight again. It's hard for me to grasp with only a 670lbs tounge weight you could be over on your payload of 1328 when truck is loaded. How much stuff are you carrying in the bed of the truck? Transfer some of that to the trailer if you can. Seems you have plenty of weight to spare there.

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Hi cw3jason - So the way I calculated it was, "loaded truck weight" which is without the tongue weight of the trailer, but includes a full tank of fuel, 4 members of our family (with kids car seats in) + gear in the bed. In other words, all I need to do then is add WD hitch weight + trailer tongue weight (which is 670lbs combined).

[AussieCanadian]

Originally Posted by nesparky

3/4 ton rams have coils in the rear just like your 1/2 ton, ride is better but still stiffer than the little truck. Lol. Stock gears on the 2500 and 3500 srw are 3.42 so fuel milage is pretty good for a truck that size.
3500's are still leaf springs, but you can get optional air ride on it.
You can also get the factory 5th wheel setup in the heavy duty trucks. Look at the Cummins, well worth the money.

That's a really nice looking 2500! I'm actually looking at the same truck, but a short bed, with the black appearance package also.

[AussieCanadian]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Well.....This topic has been discussed many, many times on this forum and others and responses are all over the place.

I've been where you are and I bought a new truck while others wouldn't. Will it pull it? Sure. Is it safe? Probably not. Last year I was passed by a 3/4ton Ford F250 driving 80 mph in the rain pulling a triple axle 5th wheel (probably in excess of 40') with the bed of his truck about to scrape the pavement. He could do it, he was GREATLY overloaded and probably thought he was safe?....but.....

To me the weight ratings are in different categories for a reason. You need to meet them all to be truly safe. Only 220 over on GVW probably isn't the end of the world; unless you're in an accident and you're checked; then you may have legal issues - or someone, maybe your own family, is injured.

The achilles heel of a Ram 1/2 ton is payload. Having driven mine (1/2 ton - along with many others in the long past) over payload I can tell you that it does affect the handling/stopping etc. Some will tell you to put airbags on (I did) but they don't do a thing for your ability to increase loads. The question is one for you to answer; to keep you, your family and others on the road as safe as you can or to "fudge" and hope for the best. I thought I would be OK. Mentally it drove me crazy because I couldn't stop thinking about hurting my wife, puppy or some innocent someone due to my own negligence.

3/4 ton vs 1/2 stopping power. The 3/4 has bigger brakes which work better plus an additional factor as far as pulling your trailer...size. My 1/2 (and I suspect yours) weighed about 5300lbs, the 3/4 is about 7000lbs (both unloaded). The trailer can't manhandle the 3/4 like it did the 1/2. You can also look at the suspension - no comparison. Downside - the 3/4 rides like a truck vs a car ride in the 1/2.

You've made the mistake many folks make. In my case I knew what I was doing but thought I could handle it (mentally). As much as I intended to pull the trailer I ultimately couldn't justify taking the risk.

My suggestion: get the 3/4 and fork over the 10k (I did). You will sleep better and feel better after a long drive. Some will suggest just going on up to a one ton since it's only about $500 or so. That might be something you want to think about but I'd go 3/4 at least for safety's sake.

Let the comments begin............

Some fantastic advice here thank you - I think you sold me! I still have to run all the numbers and run around to a few dealers. I'm factoring $10k, but to hit that number I maybe looking at a used truck as opposed to new again.

[AussieCanadian]

Thanks for all the responses.

@ Hoojs12840 - you make a very good point. I have noted a few occasions where i've seen larger trucks towing smaller trailers, but at 65-70mph (120km/h and more), and I can't help but wonder why the hurry?

I'm definitely from the school of thought where I think no matter what, "driving safe" (EG lowering overall speed,allowing bigger braking margins etc) should always be employed when towing, regardless of how much truck I have for my load.

I'm probably leaning toward upgrading to 3/4 ton at this stage, but it will be a tough decision. I love my 1500 as a daily driver, and i'll have to give up plenty of the luxury options - even then, it's going to cost the full $10k with ease (will lose plenty of $$ by trading - only had the 1/2 ton for 2 months!).

[theeyres]

Originally Posted by Hoojs12840

220lbs isn't going to make it less safe. If tow vehicles where that fragile you would see and find articles and lawsuits all day long. If theirs a 100 campers in a campground 50-60% are exceeding something. Never seen one stopped at a weight station or pulled over for it.

Would a 2500 or 3500 tow nicer? Sure Diesel? Even better. Safer? Not factually accurate. "Feeling" safer and being safer are two completely different things. One could argue over confidence causes it's fair share of accidents.

If you tow occasionally but drive it by itself regularly get the 1/2 ton. You are not endangering anyone.





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2013 GMC Sierra 2500 CC 4WD
2016 Jayco Northpoint 377RLBH

x2 If it were me, I'd keep it and give it a try. I don't think it's going to be a problem--but it's not me driving it or worrying about it. Sounds like you are over thinking it. But few will probably agree with me.

[CaptnJohn]

Really ~ no REALLY loved my 1/2 ton Ram trucks with the Hemi. They ride so nice and a 4X4 with the Big Horn package is still reasonably priced. My last truck was a 2015 F150 4X4. After only 2 months my wife decides we need to start camping again. I was not overjoyed as what was available to fit the truck and settled on a fantastic 2016 Wilderness TT. Truck and TT worked great together and wifey is happy BUT I can see she is serious about this endeavor. So, I trade a 4 month old TT in on a 5er and a 6 month old truck in on a F250. All that ~~ if my numbers were as close as yours I'd certainly be comfortable towing with it IF I felt the handling was up to par. I'd set the controller gain up a notch and see how it feels. That is me, not suggesting you should do the same. If it were a Ford or Chevy that soft ride would not be there and driving is the only way as the Ram ~~ is mushy with a load not sure how it would be with a trailer but that is not based on the numbers,,, just it's nature.

[old timer]

These days trucks seem to have softer springs and when you load the back of the truck they squat alot. It may push down so hard as to remove the weight from the front wheels making it hard to drive. The reason for the air bags is to push the back of the truck up which transfers the weight back to the front wheels. it also transfers weight back to the trailer. They don't add to the payload. They do however make the ride much better when the truck is empty as well.

[larry337]

Originally Posted by old timer

These days trucks seem to have softer springs and when you load the back of the truck they squat alot. It may push down so hard as to remove the weight from the front wheels making it hard to drive. The reason for the air bags is to push the back of the truck up which transfers the weight back to the front wheels. it also transfers weight back to the trailer. They don't add to the payload. They do however make the ride much better when the truck is empty as well.

I had air bags on my last truck and I don't believe they transfer any weight at all. Picture a kid on one side of a teeter totter. Now lift the kid up and put a 6 inch jack stand underneath him. Do you really think any weight was transferred? All air bags do is lift the back up. They WILL firm up a squishy ride but dont do anything else. Someone would have to weigh their setup before and after the install to change my mind. The only thing that transfers weight is a weight distributing hitch or a sliding fifth wheel.

[jsmith948]

At the risk of throwing gas on a fire...To me, this is simple. If you want a vehicle that rides like a car and will be smooth and comfy as a daily driver, then...BUY A CAR!!

IF you want to tow a heavy trailer and haul your camping gear around SAFELY...then BUY A TRUCK that will do the job. I don't agree with those that say "You'll be okay..go for it...you're not endangering anyone". And as far as not seeing anyone pulled over or pulled into a weigh station goes ... during the last trip over to see my DS and his family in Paso Robles, CA, the commercial CHP pick-up had a toy hauler pulled over and had him up on the "bathroom scales". On the way back home, the trailer sat there with no tow vehicle in sight. They ARE beginning to check here in the Peoples' Republic of Kalifornia.
Just sayin'

[chuckster57]

Pismo beach is another popular place for CHP to use the portable scales.

[notanlines]

Oldtimer, Larry is correct. Airbags transfer no weight at all, either forward or backward. You might feel like you all of a sudden are driving a heavier duty truck, but you are not.

[JRTJH]

As "tax money" becomes more difficult to obtain, governmental agencies are being "forced" to look for new ways to obtain cash. One very lucrative, yet untapped source of cash is the "overloaded RV".

It's only a matter of time before every governmental agency starts tapping into this "cash cow" called "Private, I'm not hurting anyone RV'er".......

[AussieCanadian]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Oldtimer, Larry is correct. Airbags transfer no weight at all, either forward or backward. You might feel like you all of a sudden are driving a heavier duty truck, but you are not.

Reading the "air bag" comments made me realize I didn't specify what type of setup I am using (IE hitch).

So, just for the record, I will be towing this with the same setup I've used for the past 3 years - a Reese 12k WD hitch, with the dual cam sway control system. I use the 800lbs WD bars to shift weight from the rear to the front axle.

[RACarvalho]

As for sway control: Buy a Propride 3P and never bother with it again. I know, it's expensive, but it is a one time buy, it cost way less than the difference to a 3/4 ton and you can use it on any other truck in the future.
As for weight distribution: Understand how it works and play with the set ups, set up makes a lot of difference and not always the guys at the dealer get it right.
As for the braking power: I really doubt that the 1500 RAM versions with more payload have different brakes, wheel bearings, transmission, suspension, etc....
A ton of info on hitch and towing at camamrv dot ca.

Ricardo