What about this combo?

[Doswheelers]

Truck: 2014 Silverado Crew 1500
GVWR 7200
Payload 1620
Max Trailer 9600
GCWR 15000
Max Tongue 800 1200w/WDH

Trailer1:
Shipping Weight 7016
CC 2834
Hitch 785
Length 31' 8"

Trailer2:
Shipping Weight 6075
CC 1725
Hitch 865
Length 29' 3"

[hankpage]

If you have a short wheelbase truck ... considering the loaded hitch weight and the length of the trailer it may not be the most comfortable towing experience. If long wheel base you should be fine but at your limit. JMHO, Hank .............

[bobbecky]

Looks like you could get overloaded real easy. That trailer can max out at 9850 lbs, which is over the 9600 lbs the truck is rated at.

[Ram189]

Short or long wheel base I would go with a loaded hitch. More stable of a ride.

I agree with the others though you are right on the edge. A load of fresh water or a combo of fresh/black/grey plus other stuff you would normally care and you are right on the edge.

The thing about weight is not pulling the trailer it is stopping the trailer. It is the brakes that will give out before the motor and trans do.

[hankpage]

Originally Posted by Ram189

Short or long wheel base I would go with a loaded hitch. More stable of a ride.

.

Agree on hitch weight .... I mentioned wheelbase in regard to sway from a long trailer.

Trailer #2 you just added looks better. But when loaded payload will still be close.

It appears as if you know the answer already but want someone to talk you into it.

[x96mnn]

I have a similar set up to trailer 2. I have been to the scales loaded up and I am leagle, but can tell there is a camper behind me. I can keep speed limits and only notice sway in high winds but have made the choice to keep the trips on short runs, say 250 miles a day as I find it a bit too much on the truck.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Doswheelers

Truck:
GVWR 7200
Payload 1620
Max Trailer 9600
GCWR 15000Max Tongue 800 1200w/WDH

Trailer1:
Shipping Weight 7016
CC 2834
Hitch 785
Length 31' 8"

Trailer2:
Shipping Weight 6075
CC 1725
Hitch 865
Length 29' 3"

Based on the numbers you listed, I would assume that the tow vehicle you're listing is a Ford F150 Supercrew 145" wheelbase 5.4L engine. Whether it has a 4 speed or 6 speed transmission will depend on the year.

The first thing you need to understand is that the numbers are a "generalized" set of guidelines for the model series. The GVW for "all" F150's in a model year will be listed as 7200 lbs. That includes the base model (lightest) standard equipped truck all the way up to the premium mocel (heaviest) truck in the series. So, it would make sense that the lightest truck would have the biggest payload. So when Ford's marketing division gets ahold of the engineering data and sets the "standard advertising" "LIES", they use the lightest truck to establish "payload" and the heaviest truck to establish "how we sell them" the two are nowhere near the same.... It's similar to all the criteria that you will find listed in any brochure you pick up from a dealer's showroom. The only way to know exactly how any specific truck is rated is to look at the sticker on the driver's doorjamb. It will give you that truck's actual payload and GCWR.

OK, so let's look at the numbers you listed (in red) You list a GVW of 7200 lbs and a GCWR (truck and trailer) of 15000 lbs. If you weigh your truck and find that empty it weighs 5200 lbs, that would mean you could "conceivably" tow a trailer that weighs 9800 lbs. BUT WAIT !!!! The GCWR is the combined weight of the truck, trailer, cargo, passengers, fuel, accessories added to the truck or trailer as well as anything else that might become a component in or on either the truck or trailer....

SO, let's add a wife, 2 kids, a dog, two bikes, a cooler and some firewood to the truck. Wife 150lbs, kids 200lbs, dog 50lbs, bikes 60lbs, cooler 75lbs, firewood 50lbs. (let's assume the truck was weighed empty and now you have a full fuel tank "36 gal) also. Now add that weight "cargo" 585 and "fuel" 252 for a total of 837 additional pounds. That brings the truck weight to 6037. Subtract that from the 15,000 and the max trailer can weigh 8963. That's a far cry from the GCWR rating of 9800lbs or the advertised tow package rating of 9600 lbs.

So, with the trailer you've listed as #1, total weight (empty + cargo) would be 9850 lbs. Calculated tongue weight would be 10-15% of that or 985-1477 lbs.

Trailer #2 would be 7800 lbs total with a calculated tongue weight of 780 - 1170 lbs.

Assume the average tongue weight would be near the middle of each, so trailer #1 would have a probable tongue weight of about 1230 lbs and weigh around 8435 lbs loaded "average". Trailer #2 would have a probable tongue weight of about 975 lbs and weigh around 7500 lbs. Those two probable weights are close to what you'd encounter if you load either trailer with 'about half" of its capacity and distribute the weight evenly in front of and behind the axles to keep the load balanced.

With a 7200 lb GVW, assuming the truck weighs 5600 lbs (GVW-PAYLOAD=WEIGHT) if we add your family and cargo from above (585 lbs) and consider that the manufacturer calculated the fuel weight already, we would have a remaining payload of 1035 lbs with an anticipated tongue weight of 1230 for trailer #1 and 975 for trailer #2.

As you can see, trailer #1 will probably be too heavy for your truck and trailer #2 would "BARELY be light enough". You would realistically have little room for any cargo adjustments or extra guests, extra cargo with either choice.

We haven't considered wheelbase to trailer length. The F150 SCREW short bed is on a 145" wheelbase. Generally, we allow a 20' trailer for the first 110 inches of wheelbase and 1 foot for each 4" after that. So a 145" wheelbase should be OK to tow an RV up to 29'..

We get that by allowing a 20' trailer for the first 110" of wheelbase and 1 foot for each extra 4". That's 145-110=35. There are almost 9 extra 4" segments remaining so there are almost 9 extra feet allowed.

If you select trailer #1, you will be overloading the truck and towing a trailer that's essentially too long, meaning you'll have increased sway and towability problems.

If you select trailer #2, you'll be "right on the cusp" of towing the maximum weight and maximum length trailer. It's a "crapshoot" as to whether it would work or not. There's no margin for error as you're maxing out the truck with that trailer.

I know this is lengthy and probably complicated on "first read" but if you try to digest it, hopefully it will give you the facts you need to realize that the only possible "good choice" is trailer number 2 and it barely fits, depending on how much you want to compromise to tow it in good weather. I'd hesitate to get it out in windy, rainy weather on a busy highway. You'll not enjoy the experience.

[therink]

I would load your truck with passengers (as if camping) and about 500 lbs in the bed to represent fire wood, hitch, bikes, tools, grill or whatever else you would normally load for camping. Then take the truck to a scale to determine what is left of your payload for trailer tongue.
Please factor in that the tongue weight will be between 10 to 13% of the LOADED weight of whatever trailer you choose. If you multiply 13% x the manufacturers GVWR of trailer, the numbers here will tell you if you are within your trucks payload ratings.

[Doswheelers]

Wouldn't the WDH shift some of the tongue weight back to the trailer, thus freeing up some of the payload capacity? Or, is that figured into the numbers above? And would a WDH not help with the sway/trailerability issues noted above for the longer trailer?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Doswheelers

Wouldn't the WDH shift some of the tongue weight back to the trailer, the freeing up some of the payload capacity? Or, is that figured into the numbers above? And would a WDH not help with the sway/trailerability issues noted above for the longer trailer?

The numbers I used didn't include any allowance for the hitch assembly. The weight of the hitch should also be included in the payload for the truck since it will actually be a part of the tongue weight. That is about 100-150 lbs depending on the hitch selected. Usually the weight distribution hitch will redistribute about 20% (or around that) back onto the trailer axles. That makes the redistribution pretty much a "wash" as far as tow vehicle payload is concerned.

Another thing to consider is that usually the tongue weight of the trailer is added into the GVW of the trailer. Often (especially true with Keystone) is that they will minimize the axles under the trailer and use the tongue weight to make up the difference. Example: Two 3500 lb axles and a GVW of 7800 lbs. They are "counting on" the tongue to carry 800 lbs of the GVW. When you redistribute a significant part of the tongue weight back onto the axles, it is possible to overload them if you're really pushing the trailer GVW right to the max...

[Festus2]

A truck's initial towing capacity has already been set by the manufacturer and can be found in the owner's manual. Different engine sizes and types, transmissions, box lengths and other factors will affect the capacity of the same year and model of truck so there isn't just one "number" for a 2012 F250.

The capacity is affected by any changes or additions you might add such as additional passengers, optional equipment, cargo, etc. that will add to the weight of the truck.

The more "stuff" you have in the base truck - in the cab or in the box - the towing capacity decreases. You can't "free up" the payload/capacity by shifting weight around. You can increase it by reducing the amount of weight you have in the tow vehicle --- leave the dog (and kids --just joking), bikes at home - don't pack anything in the box, etc.

You could, for example, load up your truck as if you were going camping and take it to a weigh scale and weigh it. That is the number you would use in the calculations above. If you go to a scale, you can weigh other "sections" of your complete unit to get a more accurate and complete picture of how much weight is on the hitch, axles, etc.

[TomHaycraft]

Doswheelers, a couple years older, but the same capacities.

You've received many great replies, a lot of good details. I'll cut to the chase and give you a reference point.

I'm at 80% of towing capacity, fully loaded by CAT scales. I do okay towing and the setup is serving its purpose for now. In time, I will trade up to a used 3/4 ton with diesel. Headwinds, any change in elevation and the transmission starts searching, often shifting between 4th and 5th. Your throttle foot soon learns to account for it. Engine temp never increases, transmission temps run in the 190s with occasional peaks to 205.

My acceleration is like a 1/2 loaded semi and I tend to bleed off speed just as they do on the hills. Not difficult to find a good rhythm.

Limitations are strong headwinds (20 to 30 knots) and hills greater than 8%. I have done okay in the hills of Arkansas and Missouri, foothills of the Ozarks. I won't take it to the Colorado Rockies. Here in central Texas I have more opportunities for camping that I can get to. In two weeks, I will drop down into Palo Duro Canyon. I'll try to remember this thread and let you know how it is coming out of the canyon is, couple miles of 6 to 7%, one section that is 10%+.

Tom

[hankpage]

Tom, A glimmer of hope for the OP but I think you will agree that there is a considerable difference between towing a fifth-wheel and a travel trailer. The stability and overall length of the combos definitely favor the 5er.
Enjoy your trip to Palo Duro, it sounds great, especially to us folks in the frozen North. Travel safely, Hank

[TomHaycraft]

Hank, fully agree, point well taken in terms of TT vs 5er.

Early in summer of 2012, DW and I rented a 2009 Springdale 232RBL. The TT's dry weight about 2,000 lb less than the 5er we bought at the end of the summer. It was not an enjoyable experience pulling the TT.

In all fairness, the company who I rented from should be run out of business. Did I mention it was Woody's RV Rentals in Georgetown, TX? No WD hitch (couldn't find the parts on the lot), therefore no sway control and they convinced me the 7-pin would connect to the brakes on the trailer without a brake controller in the cab. Wrong! The reservation for the trailer was set up a couple months in advance and they were aware I was taking it into Arkansas and Missouri. Assuming they knew what they were doing, we headed out on the road. That was a learning experience!

I don't think the engine / transmission had to work quite as hard with the lighter TT as compared to my present 5er, but it was similar. The stability of the TV was quite another story, we did not like the feel at all. Pulling the 5er, very stable. I've been in 30 knot cross winds with gusts higher pulling the 5er, I could feel the wind, I won't lie, but nothing that I would consider white knuckle producing.

I hope this description and experience provides the original poster a bit more with which to make their decisions.

[Doswheelers]

Thanks for all of the informative reply's. In lieu of hooking up a little red wagon loaded with a pup-tent, it looks as though I'm gonna be pushing it somewhere. Most likely running a bit long and with limited payload capacity. With that being said, can I consider a unit with a higher stated hitch weight and lower GVWR if I'm using the 10-13% formula?

[JRTJH]

I'm not sure what you're asking, but the "stated hitch weight" is usually an advertising "gimmick" used in the specs for any given trailer. The "shipping weight" is the weight as it leaves the factory (no propane, no battery, no cargo) and the hitch weight in the specs is usually with empty propane bottles, no battery and no cargo. So in all honesty, the weights in the specs for an RV are not related to how an RV is used or what it will weigh when loaded and hitched to a tow vehicle. The only "guaranteed specific" that you'll find is that the "real weight" is heavier than advertised.

The 10-15% is the recommended hitch weight range that provides the optimal towing capability. That means the least sway, bouncing and best tracking with least amount of "pushing" the tow vehicle from side to side. If you overload your tow vehicle, even staying within the recommended tongue weight percentage will not prevent towing problems.

The best way to determine what you should consider is, as stated, load your tow vehicle with all the people and cargo you will have on an RV trip, go weigh it and see how much it really weighs. Subtract that weight from the truck's GVW and you'll have the "maximum payload remaining that can be used for trailer tongue weight" THEN: Subtract that same weight from the GCWR and you'll have the maximum trailer weight that you can tow. You must stay within BOTH of those weights, they are not “either/or” but both must be followed. So, you can’t tow a trailer that has a tongue weight that’s OK but weighs 1,500 lbs more than the GCWR and you can’t tow a trailer that meets the GCWR but the tongue weight is 500 lbs too heavy. Both are important and both should be independently considered.

Those two numbers, the maximum remaining payload and the maximum trailer weight will then allow you to look for trailers that fit those two weights.

On the trailers you consider. Use the trailer GVW to stay within your max trailer weight and use 10% and 15% of that trailer GVW to determine the range of tongue weights you can expect (depending on how you load the trailer)

Understand that almost any salesman will reassure you with a huge smile that your tow vehicle is "just fine" with most anything they have on the lot. Also understand that his objective is to tell you whatever it takes to separate you from your down payment. Once he has accomplished that, the problem is no longer "his" it's "YOURS" and even if it means you have to buy a new truck, he has still made his commission and he'll be smiling all the way to deposit his check while you scratch your head trying to determine how to finance a new truck just after buying a new trailer......

[STLCG]

First thing to remember all opinions expressed on this forum are just that opinions and the only opinion that matters is yours. That being said here is mine.

Yes you can tow either of these units. I have actually weighed everything that goes in to both my camper and TV. I carry about 500lbs in the truck and at the most 818 in the camper. My normal camper load is closer to 600lbs but if you add bikes and a few other odds and ends it goes to a little over 800lbs. However I do not carry firewood, cast iron skillets, complete tool sets, smoker, turkey deep fryer, bowling balls, free weights, or any of the other stuff you really do not need to take on vacation with you. When I was a child and went on camping trips with my dad he would carry all that crap but I see no need.
I will round up saying you carry a little more than me and use 1000lbs payload in the camper and 600 lbs in the TV. You need to have between 10-15% of total camper weight on the hitch, 12% of 8200 lbs =984. 984+600 lbs gives you a payload of 1584, (36lbs shy of your max). Not a lot of wiggle room but it works. I recommend beefing up you TVs suspension with some sort of aftermarket suspension but it’s not absolutely necessary.

With my camper fully loaded and ready to roll I add about 125lbs to the dry hitch weight. Using the higher to the two hitch wt. you provided that would come to 818+125=943, well below your 1200lbs hitch limit.

I would not base my decision to buy or not based on trailer length and TV wheel base. I know there is some crazy formula tossed around on this forum but I have not been able to verify it anywhere else. I recently upgraded my 26BS-29ft long for a 31SQB-36ft long and was nervous about the increase in length. Before making the deal I looked everywhere to try and confirm that limitation but could not find any proof. So I purchased the 31SQB and could not be happier. My TV is a 2010 F-150 super crew max tow short bed and it handles the 31SQB perfectly. I live in Atlanta GA and the dealer (Lake Shore RV) is in Muskegon MI, 15hr one way drive. I did the deal less than a month ago and after towing both units 15hrs back to back I can honestly say the 31SQB was more stable and was less affected by passing vehicles than the 26BHS.

Hope this helps!! And happy towing!!

[JRTJH]

In response to a previous poster’s statement about, " some crazy formula tossed around on this forum but I have not been able to verify it anywhere else" It's strange that he was unable to find anything regarding wheelbase length and trailer length being important in towing considerations. Here are just a few of the many sites I found by using “Google”...it really is “our friend”. The bottom line is that tow vehicle wheelbase is a major component is vehicle/trailer stability and towing safety.

1. One of the most often used websites for trailer towing recommendations and to teach the “novice” about trailer towing is: “How to Tow Safely - A Complete Guide to Towing “ The wheelbase chart and rationale is on page 18. The author, JD Gallant is a published author of a number of RV "how to" books and is a well respected authority on RVing and RV safety.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...xb4_7otCPMmkrg


2. This site established the known fact that longer wheelbase vehicles are inherently more stable in a towing environment: “Typically, short-wheelbase sport-utility vehicles, such as the Ford Broncos, Dodge Ramchargers and pre-1992 GM Blazers/Jimmys are not as stable as vans, trucks and Suburbans built by the same manufacturers. It's possible to tow successfully with sport-utility vehicles, but they are less forgiving of poor trailer balance and/or improper hitching and sway control” http://www.timberman.com/rig/sway.htm

3. Here is an article that explains in somewhat better (although much longer) terms what I stated about the vehicle wheelbase/trailer length:
Please note that the chart used in this article is the same as that used by JD Gallant.

“How long?
Due to the different characteristics of a fifth wheel trailer, this applies more to a trailer than a fifth wheel.

Why is length such an important factor? Well, it's not really the length of the trailer that is as important as is the size (or wheelbase) of the tow vehicle trying to pull it. The main focus of this is to minimize trailer sway, which in many cases is caused by the wind from either Mother Nature or large vehicles passing you by.

Basically, the longer the wheelbase the better! Think of it as leverage. The longer the trailer, the more leverage it can have on the tow vehicle. The longer the wheelbase of the tow vehicle, the more it can resist the leverage being applied from the trailer. You don't need a crew cab long bed truck to pull a pop-up that could easily be towed by a small SUV. But you don't want to pull a 30' trailer behind that small SUV. You want something longer. But don't get carried away, either. Let's see how it works.

You'll need 2 measurements, the wheelbase of your tow vehicle, and the total length of the trailer you are pulling (or intend to pull). That length is from the coupler to the back bumper.

The First Guideline
(This guideline was first used by the RV Consumers Group rv.org)

For the first 110" of wheelbase, this allows you 20' of trailer.

For each additional 4" of wheelbase, this gets you 1' more of trailer.

Wheelbase / Trailer length
110" = 20'
114" = 21'
118" = 22'
and so on

http://davidsrvtips.blogspot.com/

4. This is a European site, but the physics of towing remain constant regardless of country boundaries. There is a great explanation of how longer wheelbase vehicles provide more stability with trailer towing. Here’s a simple comment about stability: “…remember, you can usually feel though the steering wheel if the tracking is out by more than half a degree, so the lateral push/pull felt in a Short Wheel Base (SWB) vehicle will be more noticeable than a Long Wheel Base (LWB) vehicle. While it will be easier to ‘feel’ the deflection earlier in a short wheel base vehicle, the long wheelbase vehicle will be more stable.” http://caravanchronicles.com/underst...f-towing-pt-2/

5. GM in marketing information states this about their Acadia, “Acadia, which is also powered by a 3.6L V-6 and has a longer wheelbase to help stabilize larger trailers, …” http://www.worktruckonline.com/chann...rossovers.aspx

Note: The link to RV.org which appears in one of the above comments is to a “members only” website. It is left intact not as a recommended link, but rather as confirmation that yet another “expert website” has used the formula for determining wheelbase/trailer length recommendations.

As to any recommendation for maximum tongue weight as it relates to tow vehicle payload. I recommend that the maximum tongue weight be calculated using the trailer maximum GVW and use 15% of that figure to determine maximum tongue weight. My rationale for using the maximum is that every tow vehicle/trailer combination will tow differently. One must be able to adjust the tongue weight up or down from the “average” or “starting tongue weight” to accommodate any variances in the specific combination. Whatever percentage of tongue weight that seems appropriate to minimize sway in one combination of truck and trailer may be completely inadequate to control sway in another combination. So, if one owner can achieve stability and minimize sway with 10% of his trailer weight on the tongue, there is no relationship to expect that all tow vehicle/trailer combinations will achieve the same results. If the owner calculates his "pre purchase" tongue weight at 10 or 12 or 14% and finds that his rig does not provide the needed stability, he must have the necessary added weight capability to increase the tongue weight to achieve stability. If he has calculated the minimum (to justify a possible “too small tow vehicle”, he has no way to increase tongue weight safely. I always recommend calculating the heaviest weights. That way, there is adaptability if needed. It is seldom wise to use the minimum weights or lengths or vehicle limits to determine vehicle suitability for an "unknown rig". To do so is at best, a conservative guess and more often, the cause of realizing a vehicle is inadequate for the job we "hoped it would do".

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by STLCG

First thing to remember all opinions expressed on this forum are just that opinions and the only opinion that matters is yours. That being said here is mine.

I would not base my decision to buy or not based on trailer length and TV wheel base. I know there is some crazy formula tossed around on this forum but I have not been able to verify it anywhere else. !

While I realize that trailer length and TV wheel base are not the only factors to consider when buying, surely they must be taken into account along with numerous other criteria. If, for example, I was looking at a 35 ft TT and wondering if I should pull it with large, properly equipped SUV with a short wheel base or a truck with a long wheel base, there wouldn't be much doubt as to which TV I would choose.

It just makes sense that a TV with a short wheel base in relation to the length of the TT could present problems. If your TT is "long" and your TV has a "short" wheel base - in relation to the TT - you could be in for an "interesting" ride. Yes, you can take steps to make it less interesting by using a properly set up WD hitch to help reduce sway, etc.

A longer TV wheelbase also improves the tracking and stability and will resist changes of direction by inputs from the hitch.

I believe that the "crazy formula" you referred to is not so much a formula as a guideline and that it suggested, if I remember correctly, that the TV wheelbase be increased by 4 in for each additional foot of TT over a certain length.

While not the only criteria to consider, wheel base and trailer length should be factors to think about.

[STLCG]

Real world experience trumps internet banter any time. There are plenty of examples on this forum of people happily towing rigs that do not fall within the above stated criteria. I am now one of them. I was almost scared off from buying my current TT because of the info floating around on this site but in the end commonsense won out. That “formula” is rather restrictive and I am sure there are plenty of ¾ tons pulling incredibly long 5vrs that are not even close to meeting that standard. Look, the point I am trying to make is that there is a lot of good and bad information floating around. Do your research, crunch the numbers and make the best decision based on factual published information not internet squawk.