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Old 07-29-2019, 11:12 AM   #1
Phil Saran
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Keystone Customer Relations

Admin if this is in the wrong place please move or delete.

Just want to talk about my recent contacts with Keystone Customer
Relations in Goshen IN.

(1) On our recent 3-1/2 week trip to Michigan I had the water heater stop
working first night on our 27 day trip. This was in Nebraska.

Called 3 Keystone Authorized dealers and was told by all three they
were too busy to look at my problem.

I called a mobile RV tech and he offered to come to me, but since I
was traveling east I went to his shop to save the $80 service call.

He tested the water heater found both the circuit board and electric
probe were bad and replaced both. Cost $299.50, $110 in labor (1 hour)
and $182.50 for the two parts.

Back home I contacted Keystone Customer Relations seeking reimbursement
and have sent them pictures and copies of receipts.

They will pay 1/2 hour labor and for the circuit board ($205) and say
the electric probe is a maintenance item.

I know I can not fight them so I am taking the $205 and walking away.

(2) Later on in my trip I got a warning notice on my truck dash that
a wire was disconnected for the trailer brakes.

I stopped and tested each tire/rim for excess heat and found the left
rear was hotter than the rest. I turned off the gain for the brakes and
just used the Jake brake and truck brakes to down shift the trans to slow
down.

I called Keystone Customer Relations and requested the names of
any authorized dealers in Rapid City MI where we were going to stop
for a week. They gave me 3 names (one was CW) and I called. Of
course CW could not help me and recommended the second dealer on
the list as being better than the third.

I called and got a appointment took my unit in and explained my problem
the tech pulled the left rear wheel and as he started to remove the
brake drum all the guts fell on the ground. The tech got a new assembly
from the parts department, installed it and adjusted all the other 3 brakes
and checked tire pressure and had us out the door in 2 hours.

I would recommend this RV dealer:

Veurinks RV Center
7144 Division Ave South
Rapid City, MI
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Old 07-29-2019, 11:38 AM   #2
sourdough
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I'm sorry to hear of your problems. I have moved the thread to the Keystone Service and Warranty forum.

I'm wondering about the repair charges because to me they seem inordinately high. I see the charges for the parts and labor but what was the 299.50 for?

You didn't say what kind of hwh or size but the control board alone for my Atwood was 232 (223?) at CW. The element is <30 I believe. An anode rod is maybe 15 or so if I recall for a Suburban. (Ouch! I just looked at the cost of a control board on etrailer for my unit and it was 123!! Looks like CW got me again.)

I know you have decided to forget it but I believe I would have challenged Keystone since at CW they charge a minimum of 1 hour labor at 145 for anything. As far as the "probe" on the high side it might be $30 for whichever it is. Maintenance item on a current year trailer would be unacceptable.

Anyway, I'm sorry for the situation but don't understand the billing.
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Old 07-29-2019, 11:48 AM   #3
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$299 was the total - parts and labour, the way I read it.
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Old 07-29-2019, 11:56 AM   #4
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That's what I thought initially but they don't add up. I thought the difference might be tax but it would have to be about 2.5% which I'm not aware exists anywhere.
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:20 PM   #5
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Labor is set by the factory. Unless you can prove it took longer by taking a million pictures and writing a novel. On a brand new unit I would have argued about the heating element being a maintenance item.
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
... at CW they charge a minimum of 1 hour labor at 145 for anything. ...
Danny

Four years or so ago I had to take my unit to CW (in NH) for warranty work on the fridge; it had stopped cooling. They informed me if they could not reproduce the problem they would not be able to charge it to the warranty (it was in the second year of the fridge) and I would be responsible for 1/2 hour of labor. Of course they could not reproduce the problem, and the fridge (a Dometic 8 cubic foot) functioned perfectly thereafter until we traded it for the new unit. Not sure if this was "special" billing as the TT was purchased at a CW (although not the one I took it to for service) or something else, but in this instance they only charged me $90!

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Old 07-29-2019, 01:03 PM   #7
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My control board just failed this weekend at the lake my unit is a 2017 purchased new in spring 2018. I contacted my dealer and they tried to process through my extended coverage. They denied the claim stating that Atwood water heaters come with two year coverage from the factory. I am now waiting for the dealer to get back to me if Dometic will cover it. If not I guess I can just buy it on Ebay for $115.00
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Old 07-29-2019, 02:39 PM   #8
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Danny

Four years or so ago I had to take my unit to CW (in NH) for warranty work on the fridge; it had stopped cooling. They informed me if they could not reproduce the problem they would not be able to charge it to the warranty (it was in the second year of the fridge) and I would be responsible for 1/2 hour of labor. Of course they could not reproduce the problem, and the fridge (a Dometic 8 cubic foot) functioned perfectly thereafter until we traded it for the new unit. Not sure if this was "special" billing as the TT was purchased at a CW (although not the one I took it to for service) or something else, but in this instance they only charged me $90!

Ken

What you said makes sense...except $90 for 1/2 hr. labor. 4 years ago that might have actually been the full labor rate for 1 hour. I think our CW is 145 this year, 129 last year, 115?? year before etc.

I would think they could/would charge by the 1/2 hour (I think most auto dealerships do) but in a discussion with them a couple of weeks ago they made the statement about a minimum of 1 hour. Maybe it depends on the type of work they are doing??
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Old 07-29-2019, 03:17 PM   #9
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We charge 1/2 hr for diag. IIRC current shop rate is $175/hr. Warranty labor rates are negotiated with the factory.
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:32 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
What you said makes sense...except $90 for 1/2 hr. labor. 4 years ago that might have actually been the full labor rate for 1 hour. I think our CW is 145 this year, 129 last year, 115?? year before etc.



I would think they could/would charge by the 1/2 hour (I think most auto dealerships do) but in a discussion with them a couple of weeks ago they made the statement about a minimum of 1 hour. Maybe it depends on the type of work they are doing??


CW at Myrtle is $145 and 1/2 hr minimum charge.
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:58 AM   #11
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I don't know what the CW in Chichester NH is charging per hour now. I could be mistaken in my recollection of the cost from 4+ years ago, but I know I was unhappy over it at the time. Of course, when I asked what possibly could have been the problem that it self-healed, they had no response - just arm waiving. When in New England I found a small, independent dealer a little further away distance-wise but much closer time-wise that now does the service I can't handle myself.
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:32 AM   #12
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first of we love Veurinks RV. Secondly, you were in GRAND rapids, not 'rapids'. I had to say that since we live here.

I wasn't clear if you are complaining about your trailer or what. It sounds typical of our trailers and keystone seems to have helped as much as they could and your issues were resolved. And they were correct on the electric probe (heating element)...some one burned it when they turned the water heater ON, WITHOUT, any water in it.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Saran View Post
...
Back home I contacted Keystone Customer Relations seeking reimbursement
and have sent them pictures and copies of receipts.

They will pay 1/2 hour labor and for the circuit board ($205) and say
the electric probe is a maintenance item.

I know I can not fight them so I am taking the $205 and walking away.

...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
We charge 1/2 hr for diag. IIRC current shop rate is $175/hr. Warranty labor rates are negotiated with the factory.
If you look at the "bolded points," It becomes clear that Keystone did not pay the "full labor and parts charges for all parts" to the RV owner just as they don't pay "full labor and parts charges" to a dealership. As Chuckster stated, warranty labor rates are negotiated with the factory, and Keystone reimburses on their schedule of allotted time, not on actual time spent.

I'd add that Dometic has a labor rate reimbursement that caps at specific dollar amounts for every warranty action on their products as well. It's their, "Allotted time allowance" for specific work. I'd suppose most companies cap the warranty labor charges, not just Keystone.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:29 AM   #14
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I had a issue with my roof on my 2018 Impact, called dealer and was referred to keystone CS, same BS and the they will not repair it. I will never buy another Keystone product again.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:17 PM   #15
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I had a issue with my roof on my 2018 Impact, called dealer and was referred to keystone CS, same BS and the they will not repair it. I will never buy another Keystone product again.
Were you in warranty or out? Did the dealer even look at it or just refer you to them via phone?

It sounds to me as if the dealer is the issue. They are the ones that can make the case for you and the ones that Keystone listens to. That new I can't imagine they didn't take it in and at least assess it for Keystone and yourself. There are LOTS of variables that go into roof maintenance that the owner is responsible for. Without the confirmation from the dealer that those items were all up to snuff I'm not surprised that Keystone denied any claim, particularly if it was out of warranty.
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:15 PM   #16
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[QUOTE=Boomwaffa;354390]I had a issue with my roof on my 2018 Impact, called dealer and was referred to keystone CS, same BS and the they will not repair it. I will never buy another Keystone product again.[/QUOTE

Keystone is made by THOR.....nuff said !!
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:34 PM   #17
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Were you in warranty or out? Did the dealer even look at it or just refer you to them via phone?

It sounds to me as if the dealer is the issue. They are the ones that can make the case for you and the ones that Keystone listens to. That new I can't imagine they didn't take it in and at least assess it for Keystone and yourself. There are LOTS of variables that go into roof maintenance that the owner is responsible for. Without the confirmation from the dealer that those items were all up to snuff I'm not surprised that Keystone denied any claim, particularly if it was out of warranty.
The dealer did not physically go on my trailer as it sit at there dealership when I took it. They just went by the pics I sent them and supposedly wrote something up. Since it was over one year they Didn’t want anything to do with it. I called KS myself. 1 year and 10 months on a 65k trailer and bubbles on my roof. That’s poor installation. The so called 12 yr. warranty is BS. I will unload this trailer and never purchase another Keystone Product again. Not a happy camper
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:50 PM   #18
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The dealer did not physically go on my trailer as it sit at there dealership when I took it. They just went by the pics I sent them and supposedly wrote something up. Since it was over one year they Didn’t want anything to do with it. I called KS myself. 1 year and 10 months on a 65k trailer and bubbles on my roof. That’s poor installation. The so called 12 yr. warranty is BS. I will unload this trailer and never purchase another Keystone Product again. Not a happy camper
I understand you're "not a happy camper", but curious what brand you'd replace it with?
Whatever it might be go to their forum, search "customer service" & start reading, I'd bet you a coffee & donut you'll find numerous posts stating exactly what you've said only a different manufacturer.
I'm not defending Keystone, but just saying that there's not a nickels worth of differences between any of the manufacturing companies & their willingness to cover a warranty item that's nearly a year past the the timeline without a dealership that's willing to work with their customers.
Not sure what Pete/Jeanne were eluding to, but yes it is a Thor company & you'll have to look long & hard to find a RV manufacturer that's not a part of the Thor family, they own 75-80% of the RV industry.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:17 PM   #19
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If OP does a little research he will not consider Forest River at all. Since Thor and FR have 87% of the RV market he has some searching to do. Best bet would be to dig deep and buy Horizon at $225k.
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Old 08-24-2019, 11:47 PM   #20
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If OP does a little research he will not consider Forest River at all. Since Thor and FR have 87% of the RV market he has some searching to do. Best bet would be to dig deep and buy Horizon at $225k.
And even that's no guarantee that it won't have problems or that the factory will agree with the owner's desires for repairs a year after the warranty has expired...
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