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Old 02-18-2018, 06:26 AM   #21
flybouy
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Some models have a sink connected to the black tank by design. My outdoor kitchen sink is plumbed that way as its closer o the black tank. The outdoor sink is on one side of the exterior bathroom door and the bathroom sink on the other side. I guess separating the 2 saved Keystone 3' of pipe and 3 fittings and a couple of min. worth of labor.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:45 AM   #22
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Some models have a sink connected to the black tank by design. My outdoor kitchen sink is plumbed that way as its closer o the black tank. The outdoor sink is on one side of the exterior bathroom door and the bathroom sink on the other side. I guess separating the 2 saved Keystone 3' of pipe and 3 fittings and a couple of min. worth of labor.
I don't believe any sink should be connected to the black tank. That contravenes the reasoning behind having seperate grey and black systems. Nor should the toilet feed into the grey water system. Doing either of those risks contamination of sinks where dishes may be washed or food prepared, oreven just washing your hands or brushing your teeth, with sewage.
I would think even RVs have to comply with basic plumbing standards. Otherwise there's no reason to have the two seperate systems in the first place.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:26 AM   #23
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The tub, sink and toilet in our S&B all connect to the same sewer dump in both out bathrooms, all within 4 or 5 feet of each other for each bath. Conceivably, if the sewer line was plugged downstream from either bath and someone flushed the toilet, it would back up into the tub.

I've seen a number of RV's with the outdoor kitchen sink dumping into the black tank with only a HEPVO trap (nothing more than a balloon inside a PVC pipe). On most RV's with a second "half bath" there is only one tank for the toilet and the sink. Routinely, on larger "two bath models" there's three tanks (2 gray and 1 black) for the front components (kitchen, front bath and toilet) and one tank for both the toilet and sink in the back of the RV.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:19 AM   #24
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Something else to add to your checklist, Check that the drainage plumbing is connected correctly as follows

Drain the grey and black tanks completely
Close the valves
Run a few gallons of water into all the sinks and the shower
Now go out and open the black water drain valve. Nothing should come out
Open the grey water valve and completely drain the grey tank and close the valves again
Now run a few gallons of water through the toilet.
Open the grey water drain valve and nothing should come out.
Open the black water drain valve and drain the tank. Close both valves.

Recently I came across a thread where the buyer of a new trailer had found crossed drain plumbing in his travel trailer. As unbelievable as this might seem at first, these trailers are assembled by people, and people make mistakes, especially when they're pushed as hard as the RV industry seems to push their assembly line workers.
Are you sure the handles just didn't get mismarked? That happens a lot. Fix is easy, just switch the stickers.

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Old 02-18-2018, 12:47 PM   #25
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Are you sure the handles just didn't get mismarked? That happens a lot. Fix is easy, just switch the stickers.

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There's a thread in the forums here that covered this. When I read through it, the OP said in a later post that it wasn't just a mis labelled dump valve. They were going to take the trailer back for repairs. I'm not sure if they posted the results of that.

John:
I'm not sure what an S&B is, but if that kind of plumbing is routine in the RV industry, that is worrying. As I understand it, the whole idea of having seperate grey and black systems is to prevent contamination and smells into the sinks and baths. If the RV industry is violating that principle on a routine basis, it suggests that either the rules don't apply to RVs or that oversight of the industry is lacking. I'd be pretty sure you wouldn't get away with that kind of plumbing in a building or a house!
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV View Post
There's a thread in the forums here that covered this. When I read through it, the OP said in a later post that it wasn't just a mis labelled dump valve. They were going to take the trailer back for repairs. I'm not sure if they posted the results of that.

John:
I'm not sure what an S&B is, but if that kind of plumbing is routine in the RV industry, that is worrying. As I understand it, the whole idea of having seperate grey and black systems is to prevent contamination and smells into the sinks and baths. If the RV industry is violating that principle on a routine basis, it suggests that either the rules don't apply to RVs or that oversight of the industry is lacking. I'd be pretty sure you wouldn't get away with that kind of plumbing in a building or a house!
S&B = Sticks and Bricks.

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Old 02-18-2018, 01:38 PM   #27
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This is a diagram of the "basic" plumbing schematic for most "stick and brick" (S&B) homes. If you notice, the tub, sink and toilet all drain into one common drain. If the drain were to plug between the toilet and the vent stack, it would back up into the tub when flushed. It likely wouldn't back up into the sink because of the elevation difference, but the tub would not be so "lucky". The only thing that "might" (likely would not) prevent backflow into the tub would be the P trap (which will prevent gas odor from entering the tub drain, but not prevent effluent from backing up into the tub. With the toilet bowl water level higher than the tub floor, chances are it's going to have "brown water" if the drain plugs between the toilet and the drain stack.

Maybe it's not done this way in Australia, but this is the typical S&B plumbing in the US. As for RV's, once you get to looking, you'll find that in almost all two bath (bath in front with a half bath in the back) RV's drain the rear sink and toilet into a common tank. It may not be to "someone's liking" but it's the way the RV industry does it in almost all the larger RV's that I've seen. Keystone is not the only manufacturer to do this, virtually all of them follow similar practices.
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:04 PM   #28
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John:
Yes, that's quite interesting, especially the connection from the tub to the outlet of the toilet. I hadn't thought about the fact that ultimately everything connects to the same sewer pipe when you're plumbed to city sewage. We live on an island that doesn't have city sewage and so we have a septic system. Grey and black water are completely seperate all the way including seperate drainage fields.
In the drawing you posted, I could see the toilet backing up into the tub, but it looks like the toilet would overflow before it backed into the sinks. Also it looks like when the tub is drained, it would have a tendency to suck the water out of the toilet via the venturi effect. It would at least cause some turbulence in the toilet. Talk about a tempest in a peecup!
I think the plumbing standards must be different here in Oz, because I'm not sure that diagram would get past the inspector here. From what I've seen of building sites here, the grey water is seperate right until it enters the main sewer outlet, and that usually has a grate over it, so if there is a blockage downstream, it overflows outside of the house.
And yes, you do get some smell from the sewer grate, but not much and it's outside.
Edit:
I just went back and re-read your post. What do you think about draining the shower into the black tank? That seems consistent with your diagram for the S&B plumbing. It was the subject of a thread on the forums here and I though (as did the OP) that it was wrong. It seems as though that may be normal practice.
In any case, when we get our trailer, I'll be doing a test to find out exactly what is plumbed to which tank. I think that would be useful to know when dry camping.
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:30 PM   #29
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Here, we use the sink and tub water to help flush (push) the toilet waste further down the plumbing run. If it were only toilet waste in one plumbing run and only sink/tub waste in a different plumbing run, it would take more water with each flush to push the toilet solid waste further down the pipe. So, functionally, it works "better" (saves water) to have all three connected to one plumbing run.

As for the shower in an RV draining into the black tank, I don't think that is very efficient. That would fill the black tank faster and would not "equalize" the fill rate for the gray tanks. Typically there are two gray tanks and one black tank. The kitchen sink drains into one gray and the shower/bath sink drain into the other gray. That way they would typically get full more equally than if the shower drained into the black and only the bathroom sink drained into the front gray tank.

There are ways to "equalize" the level in the gray tanks if they all use a common outlet to the campground sewer, but if there are two outlets, one for each gray tank, you're pretty much "stuck with what you got".... No way to equalize the level between the two tanks if they don't share a common plumbing connection.
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:07 AM   #30
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PDI file help

Tried to download file several times with no luck, if anyone can post a link or send me a PM with the file I would greatly appreciate it! Love the forum folks, good job. Thanks Dave
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:33 AM   #31
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I think this link is the same PDI checklist on a different site...
http://www.dasplace.net/PDI/pdi.html
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Old 06-03-2018, 11:11 AM   #32
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I agree, a wonderful list for us new to the camper world to use.
We pick up our 21RBS is a couple weeks and will use this list.
Thank you for preparing and sharing it with us.
jensen_53. 21 RBS is exactly what we have. 2013 Model. We purchased used almost 2 years ago. We have been very happy with it...the dealer not so much so. If you are going thru Idaho on I 90, give a shout. We are in Kellogg.
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Old 06-03-2018, 11:14 AM   #33
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Wobly

You are correct, but the form on this site is better as it is set up with the checkboxes and room to make notes. Damn useful whichever form you use, I say.

Big Thanks to Mr. Boles.

Glad I asked about locating the form as it looks like lots of other folks will benefit from it also.
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Old 06-22-2018, 02:33 PM   #34
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Thanks for the check list. I will go over it and use it when I pick up my 24SAB next week.
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Old 06-22-2018, 05:58 PM   #35
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Congrats on your RV good luck and welcome
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:26 PM   #36
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Thanks!. I will put this to use Saturday.
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:02 AM   #37
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Thank you. Will come in hand this Friday.
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:10 PM   #38
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It's also a good list to keep and use to routinely check your camper. After taking delivery, it's easy to not notice subtle changes occurring as the camper begins to age and wear over time. Scrutinizing your camper on at least an annual basis is always a good thing. A list like this is a good thing to keep for a reference, let we forget. This will also come in handy to re-inspect your rig when opening it up after winter.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:18 AM   #39
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Error msg "Site can't be reached"

PDI Checklist link, gave this newbie an error. Can somebody try it,?
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:22 AM   #40
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Looking for a Pre Delivery Inspection Checklist? If so, click on the link below which will provide you with one that can be downloaded as a .pdf file. Our thanks to Tom Boles for developing this list.

http://www.angelfire.com/trek/buenav...PDI_V113_2.pdf
Gives error..
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