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Old 09-30-2018, 09:02 AM   #41
John61CT
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I was looking at this concept for a ground-up custom frame / chassis where the suspension is easily upgraded and / or shifted front to back as needed.

The idea is to normally use bumper pull for light loads like a car or living pod, but have the ability to switch to a gooseneck for pulling a 12000+ pound full-keel sailboat.

Any suggestions for professional design and / or fab assistance (in aluminum) would be appreciated.

Never mind about liability / regulatory concerns at this stage, thanks.
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Old 09-30-2018, 09:04 AM   #42
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Also suggestions for more fertile discussion forums for such a topic, would be appreciated
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Old 09-30-2018, 09:37 AM   #43
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It's too bad the manufacturers don't offer a TT with this gooseneck setup, it looks like a much better towing experience & great money making option for the manufacturers, although probably not built as well.
I've had TTs, hated dealing with the heavy wdh & all the creaking/groining of that hitch & 5ers, prefer the ease of hitching/towing the 5ers, but like the single level floor plans of the TTs. With the gooseneck option you get the best of both.
Looks good & congratulations on using the ole' noggin in designing it, you have to be somewhat of a "southern engineer" when they don't build what you want or like the way it works for you.
I wouldn't hesitate hooking it up & hauling across the country, GOOD JOB!
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Old 09-30-2018, 09:37 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by John61CT View Post
Also suggestions for more fertile discussion forums for such a topic, would be appreciated
I would look for used flatbed trailer to base this project and experiment with the modifications. In my experience with designing an aluminum trailer that will carry heaver loads, there is a point where the extra expense and welding specialization is impractical and yield only small weight savings because of the heavier gauge material need to carry the same load as steel.

There are forms that deal specifically with construction, utility, and farm trailers. Those folks don't care to experiment and have a much different view of making modifications than an RV forum.
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Old 09-30-2018, 09:44 AM   #45
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So many OTR truck bodies and trailers are now aluminum.

I need that not just for weight savings, but longevity with lower maintenance, because regularly dipping in seawater.
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Old 09-30-2018, 09:45 AM   #46
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It's too bad the manufacturers don't offer a TT with this gooseneck setup, it looks like a much better towing experience & great money making option for the manufacturers, although probably not built as well.
I've had TTs, hated dealing with the heavy wdh & all the creaking/groining of that hitch & 5ers, prefer the ease of hitching/towing the 5ers, but like the single level floor plans of the TTs. With the gooseneck option you get the best of both.
Looks good & congratulations on using the ole' noggin in designing it, you have to be somewhat of a "southern engineer" when they don't build what you want or like the way it works for you.
I wouldn't hesitate hooking it up & hauling across the country, GOOD JOB!
Thanks, I love my 5er, but its a lot more top heavy than this rig and your right, it gives the best of both worlds. It can also make a nearly 140 degree turn without getting into the cab or bed rails.
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Old 09-30-2018, 10:16 AM   #47
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I own the Bullet 308BHS and it was definitely built for the "value" customer. I'm in the process right now of overhauling and upgrading my axles and suspension components. It's not cheap but after a broken leaf spring mishap on Labor day weekend, I'm mitigating the risk of another suspension or axle failure.

If I could do it all over again, I probably would reconsider my model choice as I was a very "wet behind the ears" as a new RV owner at the time of purchase. My wife and and I, (unfortunately), love our floor plan so we decided it would be cheaper to upgrade the components than outright sell the coach and by new again. Plus, the Hensley hitch paired to our Ram Megacab handles this trailer magnificently.

When towing modifications (as the OP has done) are fabricated to a pull behind, the increased stresses / lever arm doesn't just affect suspension and axle components but the frame too. As we all agree there (generally speaking) isn't much reserve in OEM tires, axles, springs, and suspension hardware, I'm sure this carries over to the frame itself. I'm reminded of this every time I set my stabilizer jacks a little too tight (the bathroom door and storage compartment doors don't close properly).
If engineered correctly, the only additional loading is on the axels because of the leverage effect of the pivot point being moved forward about 6', which according to my calculations and verified by a CAT scale, adds 350# additional loading to the axels. This is within the 1,300# payload, but doesn't allow for much loading for camping. As stated in a previous post, like you, I saw the deficiency in the axel capacity early on (two-years before I made this conversion) and changed them to 5K units with shocks to add stability to what I consider a poorly designed TT because of the adverse effect cross-wind gusts have on this TT even with a ProPride, Hensely design hitch.

If you look at the pictures in the early posts, there is less torque load placed on the A-frame than with the stock ball hitch because I designed and calculated the size and placement of the two supports that run from the top of the goose directly to the front of the main side frame rails to form an additional A-frame. The result is any lever torque is converted to horizontal force distributed the length of both main sided rails.

You are correct inasmuch as these trailers are extremely flexable and any stress on the frame makes the bathroom door not latch. This is evident every time one levels the TT on setup. However, this is vertical force applied from directly below the frame, so of course there is flexing of the nearly 40' frame rails. The horizontal force transmitted through the entire length of the main frame rails is dissipated evenly though the entire structure and has little or no effect on vertical frame loading in any specific place. The result is no distortion or overloading which is evidenced with the bathroom door and storage compartments latching perfectly and all of the gaps being equal (I measured them).
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Old 10-02-2018, 02:58 AM   #48
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I'm very interested in the subject of custom conversions as none of the fifth wheels unfortunately provide my husband with enough heads pace in the bedroom. The only exception is Space Craft which wants A LOT of money for a custom fifth wheel... So I'm searching for alternative solutions.

I'm not sure I completely follow how this adaptor works on the bumper pull. Could you please share how your experience has been so far?
Are you able to provide this work as a service to someone else?

Looking forward to your response,
Diana
I ran across a website that builds these things and sells them.https://www.bpconversions.com/products

This would have saved me a lot of work, but to me, their design puts a lot of additional stress on the A-frame. That said, its the same principal as mine and it appears to work and its for sale.
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:37 AM   #49
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Fantastic!

Thanks so much.

If anyone buys one, please post the steel components' specs
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:42 PM   #50
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It is an interesting idea. One additional benefit of a fifth wheel over this though is that it can still be longer than a comparable travel trailer which have the TV + trailer length not be longer which is a plus. Of course, to gain that extra space, you need the steps up which some wish to avoid.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:20 AM   #51
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I am an engineer, but networks and cyber security, not mechanical/structural. But I have a pretty critical eye for stuff. This looks like a very interesting idea and has a lot of potential and should check out mechanically.

That being said, I talked to my brother-in-law who is a professional witness for truck driving accidents and stuff. He is also a truck driving instructor when not in court. He said this looks awesome and should work very well - but also that this puts all the liability on the driver IF something were to go wrong while using such a setup.

Just a head's up.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:46 AM   #52
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Buy, But, But,
If,If,If,

No,No,No

JMHO
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Old 10-04-2018, 07:12 AM   #53
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Not a problem for me since everything but my TV is "homemade".

But I would think if you bought this as a finished product as opposed to DIY, the company would be liable for responsibility if their product is at fault.

Of course they may be set up to be judgement proof like me. . .
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Old 10-04-2018, 07:52 AM   #54
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All of the fabrication done on this setup is most likely better engineered, better welding & much more concern with how it was done than the rest of the rv.
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Old 10-04-2018, 10:16 AM   #55
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IMHO there should be a cross piece over the tongue rather than just a couple of brackets. Downward force would be quite a bit on those. Years ago I had a 40" extension using the same principle for a horse trailer allowing me to run an 11' camper on the truck
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:52 AM   #56
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Does posting about it twice make it better? http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=35225
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:17 AM   #57
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Does posting about it twice make it better? http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=35225
That one seemed more appropriate after I started this one, but more people saw this one. So, yes it did in this case
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:17 PM   #58
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This is an interesting idea. I read through the pages and may have missed this information. Was the real loaded hitch/tongue weight of TT known before and after the change? If so please list them.
As to the change, this is just me. Anyone who wants to do this is okay with me
but I would just buy a more capable truck or smaller TT then modify a TT to work with a lighter duty truck. I do understand the reasons guys like to build a better mouse trap. I did many changes to vehicles throughout my years not any longer, to much time and sometimes money that I will use doing other things.
Again that is just me, be free to like or dislike my opinion. No reason for me to attempt to change any minds and I am not attempting too.
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:40 PM   #59
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Here is a picture of where the ball is located. Also the metal is 6X4X 1/4 square tubing. The angle is 4X6X 3/8 and the supports are 3X2X14
Ingenious,, you obviously very handy,, looks to me you have got something there
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:04 AM   #60
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This is an interesting idea. I read through the pages and may have missed this information. Was the real loaded hitch/tongue weight of TT known before and after the change? If so please list them.
As to the change, this is just me. Anyone who wants to do this is okay with me
but I would just buy a more capable truck or smaller TT then modify a TT to work with a lighter duty truck. I do understand the reasons guys like to build a better mouse trap. I did many changes to vehicles throughout my years not any longer, to much time and sometimes money that I will use doing other things.
Again that is just me, be free to like or dislike my opinion. No reason for me to attempt to change any minds and I am not attempting too.
The tongue-weight before was 1,200# and after 800# because of the lever effect (think wheelbarrow). However, it transfers the 350# of the conversion hitch to the axles, which were updated to 5K units earlier because they were borderline from the factory.
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