NY DEC parks

[greengiant]

Was camping at North South Lake near Hunter this weekend with two other families, each with TT's. I booked these three sites adjacent to each other, and on the water, 9 months ago. The middle of the three sites is huge, so we all set up in a U shape in the dark, on Thursday night. Technically, 2 of the three TT's were on 1 site, while the third could be considered in the driveway of the other adjacent site. Friday morning when the one family checked in (as they showed up after the office closed), someone in the office said we were ok to be set up like this.

However, at noon, Friday, had the ranger tell us we had to move one of the trailers because it was not allowed(this after we are all set up and enjoying our time together). So we wait and she never came back. But at 7:30 while eating dinner Friday night, and almost dark, another park personnel stopped, yelled at us to move that camper or the ranger might evict us in the morning. He never even waited for us to reply, only yelled at us and left. So we moved a TT 20' in the dark to comply. I know the rules in NY say only one hard sided camper per site, but we have done this before at two different parks and there were no issues. We paid for 3 sites and weren't trying to be cheap. Just curious if anyone else has ever had this issue in NY??? These were dry sites, no hook ups.

[JRTJH]

Every state, every park, every ranger and every situation is different, so it's hard to say why your particular incident occurred.

In Michigan, many of the "very remote and seldom used" campgrounds are more restrictive than the "close to town and heavily used" campgrounds. By more restrictive, I mean that the rules concerning where to park on the campsite, not using a carpet or tarp as ground cover under the awning, not throwing gray water into the bushes, not moving the picnic tables from site to site, etc.

At many of the rustic sites, grounds maintenance, trying to get grass to grow, preventing erosion are all considerations to enforce parking only on the designated pad at each campsite. Even when there's no "improved pad" there is almost always an obvious place where the previous RV's have been parked. By enforcing parking only at these locations on the campsite, the grass has a better chance to grow.

In talking with a number of DNR officers and campground hosts, enforcement of the parking rules seems to be much different in parks where the "reputation of the park" is to "camp and party" than in parks where "rustic, back to nature" camping is the expectation.

I've been at parks where there was one RV set up on a site and 8 or 9 cars would show up every morning, park along the road, making it difficult to get past them, loud music, 4 or 5 cars still there at 3AM with people crashed and sleeping in the cars. While this isn't a common occurrence, rules are made and enforced to prevent this kind of thing from happening. We all "get to obey the restrictive rules" because of a few "bad apples".

Sometimes parks establish rules and won't bend them because if one person sees the "exception" they want to take advantage of it also, and sooner or later, something happens and a "problem arises" because of it. So the "off site owner/manager" establishes rules that the "on site employee" isn't really authorized to change.

There are a number or reasons that I can think of to restrict camping to "one camper" per campsite. I'd think protecting the grass, preventing damage to the site would be the priority. On public property, with reduced budgets, increased use and the potential for the public employees to being criticized by almost anyone with a "cause". I can understand why the campground host/ranger would "follow the rules as written" and why the campground "part time employee" would defer to the ranger by saying, "Sure, that's OK" rather than get into a confrontation with a camper.

[Bluewater]

They obviously must have a very valid reason for those rules as all CG do. Guess we all must just comply with their rules as every CG in the nation gets more and more crowded. Makes for a more enjoyable time for all.

[greengiant]

Rules are there for a reason for sure. Erosion on this site shouldn't be too much of a problem. The rules state to park on the 'dirt' portion of the site, and we were all on dirt or solid rock. It just would have been nice to have some human discussion vs coming back at dark to say 'move or be evicted'. It wasn't a party thing, more of a 'camping in community' thing with other families. Really?, having to tear down and move at TT 20'? I have a feeling the staff is used to some (no offense) 'downstate' attitude and that is how they deal with it. The good news is that this park is too amazing (weather and fall colors this past weekend to boot) for this to keep us away, and all I have to do next year is put my Hideout where the trailcruiser was next year to comply with the rules, and we can have our 'community' feeling back

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by greengiant

Was camping at North South Lake near Hunter this weekend with two other families, each with TT's. I booked these three sites adjacent to each other, and on the water, 9 months ago. The middle of the three sites is huge, so we all set up in a U shape in the dark, on Thursday night. Technically, 2 of the three TT's were on 1 site, while the third could be considered in the driveway of the other adjacent site. Friday morning when the one family checked in (as they showed up after the office closed), someone in the office said we were ok to be set up like this.

However, at noon, Friday, had the ranger tell us we had to move one of the trailers because it was not allowed(this after we are all set up and enjoying our time together). So we wait and she never came back. But at 7:30 while eating dinner Friday night, and almost dark, another park personnel stopped, yelled at us to move that camper or the ranger might evict us in the morning. He never even waited for us to reply, only yelled at us and left. So we moved a TT 20' in the dark to comply. I know the rules in NY say only one hard sided camper per site, but we have done this before at two different parks and there were no issues. We paid for 3 sites and weren't trying to be cheap. Just curious if anyone else has ever had this issue in NY??? These were dry sites, no hook ups.

Originally Posted by greengiant

Rules are there for a reason for sure. Erosion on this site shouldn't be too much of a problem. The rules state to park on the 'dirt' portion of the site, and we were all on dirt or solid rock. It just would have been nice to have some human discussion vs coming back at dark to say 'move or be evicted'. It wasn't a party thing, more of a 'camping in community' thing with other families. Really?, having to tear down and move at TT 20'? I have a feeling the staff is used to some (no offense) 'downstate' attitude and that is how they deal with it. The good news is that this park is too amazing (weather and fall colors this past weekend to boot) for this to keep us away, and all I have to do next year is put my Hideout where the trailcruiser was next year to comply with the rules, and we can have our 'community' feeling back

It sounds like the park ranger did request you move the trailer to comply with the rules (as he interpreted them) long before the other person requested you move the trailer before that park ranger came back and evicted you. That sounds more like a reminder that you haven't done what was requested rather than a "Move it now, or else" kind of statement.

It also sounds like the park is a place that you want to return because of the features (weather and fall colors). It sounds as if that is a popular park. I wonder how many people want it preserved without damage so they can also enjoy those features when they have an opportunity to use the facilities?

Having rules and enforcing them on public property is, unfortunately, a "way of life" which we all have to comply because of the attitude and action of a few who would take advantage of the benefit at the expense of the rest of us. Wouldn't it be "grand" if everyone acted responsibly and we didn't need those rules to protect the environment for the future?

Unfortunately, there are just enough people who won't comply with the rules that make the rules and enforcement "distasteful" for the rest of us......

[Bluewater]

Thanks John, well stated ! Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Navigator]

We have camped as family groups before not DEC but NYS Parks, where we had reserved 3-4 sites. We would put all the campers on 1-2 adjacent sites and park the vehicles on the others. Some times we would get some comments for the park rangers and sometimes not. We never had to move anything though - may have helped to have had some LEO's in our group, but most of the time when they realized we had a site reserved for each of the campers, they didn't bother us again. Seemed they were more interested in making the money than any damage to the sites.