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Old 09-14-2013, 03:42 AM   #1
LittleJoe
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Here's a twist to the ST/LT debate

Last week my son was attending a call for ERS at a DOT scale house. While there he was talking to a driver who had,had his rig put "out of service".(Rig was a DRW 3500 with flatdeck gooseneck, commercially licensed etc)

This means it is seized and detained until the infraction is suitably dealt with.

The "reason" for the rig being pulled out of service is that the trailer had LT tires on it(almost new) and not ST tires. (trailer was not loaded).

Operator had to replace the tires with ST before his rig would be allowed to leave the yard as well as well as having to pay the fine (which I believe was $2000).Pay Fine or court date in next 30days.

I have never heard of this fine issued but if I was running LT tires I would make sure the manufacturer classes the tire as all position tire,(steer.,drive,trailer) and keep that info on hand.

This driver/owner was planning on taking issue to court, but still had to replace his new tires before he could get his rig out of impound.

Usually "out of service " fines are reserved for things like excessive steering play (have seen trucks with 1/2 turn of freeplay.....seriously!!!) or worn out brakes, etc..........serious safety infractions
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:20 AM   #2
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WOW!!!! I find it hard to believe that DOT can tell you what type of tire you MUST use. I would think that as long as they met or exceeded load rating they should be legal. I am very curious as to what happens when this goes to court. I cannot see this happening with a non-commercial application. (but then again "Big Brother knows what is best for you.") JM2˘, Hank

I found this on the BTMA (boat trailer mfg. association web site.:
QUESTION:
Are passenger rated tires allowed on trailers? We get only “ST” tires, but I still see many “P” rated tires on trailers.

ANSWER:
Passenger tires are allowed on trailers; however the individual maximum load capacity of the tire must be reduced 10%. The total adjusted tire capacities on any axle must then be equal to or greater than the GAWR specified on the Certification/VIN label for that axle.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:17 AM   #3
Ken / Claudia
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We had a sheet on tire size for load weights. And checked for new or retread. Only new on sterring axle, retreads allowed on all others. Of course tread depth. Nothing on the type of tire that I recall. That was for com. vehicles. That was 10 years ago.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:34 AM   #4
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May never know how this turns out in court. Possibly the guy p@d off the Dot officer for another reason , who knows.
I do know that you are at the mercy of the individual officer at the site of presumed offence and even if it is determined he is wrong, that will do nothing to help you at the time.

If I hear anymore , I will post it up
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:55 PM   #5
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It may be simply that the LT tires the guy installed were rated less than half the GAWR (adjusted by 10%).

For example, I cannot simply replace my ST225/75R15Ds with LT235/75R15Ds because those LTs are only rated to carry 2102lbs each and my GAWR is more than twice that (4400lb).

(I also cannot go with ST225/75R15Cs for the same reason, even though LRCs are more than adequate for the actual loads on those wheels.)
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:29 AM   #6
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It had to be a GAWR issue. There is no law/regulation stipulating that an ST tire must be used on a trailer. Either that or he pissed off the inspecting officers some how.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:59 PM   #7
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This is an excerpt from the regulation that outlines vehicle inspections.

It's called Vehicle in use inspection standards and is a current US government regulation. Here is an excerpt for vehicles over 10,000#.

§ 570.62 Tires.

(a) Tread depth. The tread shall be
not less than four thirty-seconds of an
inch deep on each front tire of any vehicle
other than a trailer and not less
than two thirty-seconds of an inch on
all other tires.

(1) Inspection procedure. For tires
with treadwear indicators, check for
indicators in any two adjacent major
grooves at three locations spaced
approximately120° apart around the
circumference of the tire. For tires without
treadwear indicators, measure the
tread depth with a suitable gauge or
scale in two adjacent major grooves at
3 locations spaced approximately 120°
apart around the circumference of the
tire at the area of greatest wear.

(b) Type. Vehicles should be equipped
with tires on the same axle that are
matched in construction and tire size
designation, and dual tires shall be
matched for overall diameter within
one-half inch.
(1) Inspection procedure. Examine visually.
A mismatch in size and construction
between tires on the same
axle, or a major deviation from the size
recommended by the vehicle or tire
manufacturer, is a cause for rejection.


On a dual-tire arrangement the diameter
of one of the duals must be within
one-half inch of the other as measured
by a gauge block inserted between the
tire and a caliper.

(c) General condition. Tires shall be
free from chunking, bumps, knots, or
bulges evidencing cord, ply or tread
separation from the casing.
(1) Inspection procedure. Examine visually
for the conditions indicated.

(d) Damage. Tire cords or belting materials
shall not be exposed, either to
the naked eye or when cuts on the tire
are probed. Reinforcement repairs to
the cord body are allowable on tires
other than front-mounted tires.
(1) Inspection procedure. Examine visually
for the conditions indicated,
using a blunt instrument if necessary
to probe cuts and abrasions.
(e) Special purpose tires. Tires marked
‘‘Not For Highway Use’’ or ‘‘Farm Use
Only’’ or other such restrictions shall
not be used on any motor vehicles operating
on public highways.
(1) Inspection procedure. Examine visually
for tires labeled with specific restrictions.

CW
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:44 PM   #8
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While there are some cases where switching from ST to LT tires is warranted, it must be thought out well and done correctly considering wheel and axle ratings and knowing the ins and outs of doing so.
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:43 PM   #9
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Canada?

Isn't the op in Canada? Maybe it is a reg from our neighbors to the north.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:54 AM   #10
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Yeah, no putting monster truck tires on yer trailer!
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #11
LittleJoe
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Our regs, pretty much as CW posted . The op said specifically it was because his tires were NOT ST but if I ever find out the full story I will surely post it up.
Sometimes the whole story comes out if you listen long enough
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:23 PM   #12
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skru the dot

I have driven a commercial vehicle for 20 years. it is probably a state reg or a weight reg or just a punk dot officer. I love blowing by them in my rv. if I knew I would never need my cdl again I would get rid of it and tell them to shove it up their ... , I run lt tires cause I run up to 80 mph. st tires are rated for 65 mph maximum. my rv has 3 6000lb axles. the 234/85-16e firestones are rated 3045 vs 3500 for st. my actual weight fully loaded on the trailer axles is 14000 or 2333 per tire.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:35 PM   #13
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Sounds like it was in Canada and have no idea about their regs. Also It was a 3500 hauling a gooseneck -- what kind of trailer??? And a commercial license? None of that applies to my pulling a travel trailer. Here in the US a 3500 pulling at travel trailer/5th wheel never goes through the weight checks and I can't imagine a cop figuring out what kind of tires I have while moving down the road. So guess I question the whole thing as it applies to us on this forum.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:55 AM   #14
BeerCan
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Quote:
or a major deviation from the size
recommended by the vehicle or tire
manufacturer, is a cause for rejection.
LT to ST is not a major deviation. Even if you go something like 235 85 16 to 235 80 16 it is not a major deviation. The operative word in that quote is MAJOR.

I am betting on a driver / dot officer personality clash. DOT usually wins on those, ask me how I know LOL.
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerCan View Post
LT to ST is not a major deviation. Even if you go something like 235 85 16 to 235 80 16 it is not a major deviation. The operative word in that quote is MAJOR.

I am betting on a driver / dot officer personality clash. DOT usually wins on those, ask me how I know LOL.
When you go from a ST235/80R16E rated at 3420# at 80 psi to the LT235/85R16E rated at 3042# at 80 psi the load capacity difference is the major deviation.

CW
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:37 AM   #16
BeerCan
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Really? I guess it is my fault for not being more specific.
ST235/80R16E rated at 3420# to the LT235/85R16G rated at 3750#
How does that work for you?
Edited to add: Also it is not a major deviation if the LR "E" LT tire covers GAWR
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:17 PM   #17
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That's what I'm doing as soon as the dealer gets in his new shipment of Sailun S637's. DO NOT want to run these GY Marathons any more than I have to...... money well spent. Luckily the 5th wheel came with 110 psi wheels.....
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerCan View Post

Edited to add: Also it is not a major deviation if the LR "E" LT tire covers GAWR
That's not exactly how it's supposed to work. However many believe it to be true.

That portion of the regulation is written as a minimum qualifying statement and is intended for the vehicle manufacturer.

During vehicle certification the vehicle manufacturer MUST set the vehicle's GAWR, make their tire & rim selection and set recommended air pressure for all tires including the spare. They must then insure the certification label depicts their selections to the first buyer so the minimum standard for that vehicle will be available to all subsequent owners. Plus sizing is allowed. Minus sizing is not. The standard for plus sizing is the load capacity of the Original Equipment tires as depicted on the certification label.

It is not easy for one to decipher the regulations until all have been read and all applicable information is married together.

CW
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:57 PM   #19
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OK, I am not going to argue with you about it. You need to go back a read all the pertinent regulations again. We deal with these government regulations/laws (dot/nhtsa type among others) all the time as part of our business.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:19 PM   #20
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I realize it is not an RV issue and it may have been a head butt but the DOT always win those , at least at the time.

I am of the opinion that the day will come when RV over a certain weight will get closer scrutiny as money gets tighter for agencies....

They might not PULL you over to check your tires......but if they do for another reason, they generally won't go away empty handed
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