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Old 07-18-2013, 06:30 PM   #21
Ken / Claudia
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I think that when the questions are after the purchase of tv and trailer. We need to drum into folks to get to a scale and get real weights. If grossly over what the truck should be pulling stand up and say get a better vehicle which is normally a bigger and or longer. But, I think we should let folks know the different things that help with towing, such as better hitch, stronger tires, air bags, transmission coolers etc. If it were me and it has been at times I would first try to upgrade the TV before buying another. I hope that folks who read the advice continue to ask for opinions and ask others if they feel the advice is not right.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:54 PM   #22
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Ken -
I am wondering how many of those folks who, after visiting a weight scale, find out "real weights" and then discover that they are significantly overloaded, take appropriate steps to remedy this? What options are available to them? Do they redistribute the cargo/load and come back again to reweigh? Do they try different hitch adjustments? Decide to buy a new TV? Or do they simply look at the results and toss them into the glove compartment and do nothing?

Your advice about going to a weigh scale is good but only as good as what the people do with the results. Some may not have to do anything - all is good. Others, well ......not so good and not so easy.

As far as helping others with towing issues, I'm not sure whether installing stronger tires, upgrading your transmission cooler or installing airbags will change the payload or capacity of a TV. They will have an effect on how your truck rides and handles and keep your engine temp down.

But you do make some excellent points in trying to make sense of the whole issue of towing. Thanks for your suggestions.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #23
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I think you are making a very good point. All trailer dealers are not alike, sitting in 1/2 ton rated Cougar TT, 30RKSWE, GVWR of 8,200Lb (34'4" long) at Curtis Trailer in Aloha Oregon I was shooting the breeze with a salesman and I offer that my tow vehicle of choice would be a 1/2 ton truck due to its comfort in around town driving, cost and MPG. The salesman looks at me and shakes his head, he did not say no but it was obvious that my choice would not be wise. Your experience speaks for itself, many 1/2-ton trucks could tow that trailer but with that length and the truck being so light and its wheelbase, it would be a white-knuckle drive.

In my previous posts I have always used the guide lines expressed in numerous books on towing and years of reading Trailer life, Guide to Towing published each year, etc. But I do not recall a formula that relates to the length of the trailer to the wheelbase and weight of the TV?
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:38 AM   #24
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The problem with towing threads is that some poeple feel a half ton should never be used to haul anything more than groceries, and some think they can pull a space shuttle. The truth is somewhere in between. Just because you see a half ton pulling a large trailer it does not mean he is unsafe or a danger to society, it depends on the specific vehicle/trailer set up. I have a 2012 Silverado half ton and pull a trailer that is 7950 lbs. loaded and ready to go. I have had it on the truck scale at work and I am under the ratings in every aspect. In some areas I am closer than others but all is good as far as the numbers go. Do I feel unsafe? No, not at all. It drives nice and I am comfortable while pulling the trailer. I would not have bought it if I had to climb mountains with it, but here in northern Wisconsin we only have rolling hills, and a big one would be about a mile long.The trucks of today are much more capable than just a few years ago. I had a 2006 Silverado half ton and pulled a 5500 lb. trailer with it, but would never attempt to pull my current trailer with it. This truck is our only vehicle and is my daily driver. I really enjoy the 20 mpg's I get compared to the 15 mpgs that my buddy gets with his three quarter ton gasser. at 22,000 miles per year it really adds up. If any of you still feel that I am a menace to society then send me a PM when you come into Wisconsin or Michigans UP and I will let you know where I'll be so you can avoid having me run into you.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:09 AM   #25
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I think there is a large majority of people out there that are confused about all the towing info out there (I know I am). I think I'm ok but the more I read, hear, the more I question my tv. Unless your really into this, most people don't have a clue (like me). I asked questions when I purchased my rig and the salesman said no problem. After joining this forum I learned quickly not to trust the so called sales experts. As I said: I think my TV is ok but I would like to tow boat behind it (salemans said no problem) but I'm in serious doubt about that. I have a 2010 2500HD 6L gas with a 4.10 16k hich and read for a 5th wheel I can tow 12,300 my rig is 9,630 dry, my boat with trailer is around 2,500 so say 3,000 total length of everything would be 74'. With this info would I be ok to tow that much.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:12 AM   #26
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My first question would be will Michigan allow you to tow 74 feet combined, in Texas the limit combined is 65 feet.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:24 AM   #27
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My first question would be will Michigan allow you to tow 74 feet combined, in Texas the limit combined is 65 feet.
In Michigan it's 75 feet. I told the salemans that when my wife retires we would like to tow it to Florida for the winters and he said we could. I now doubt that answer.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:27 AM   #28
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My first question would be will Michigan allow you to tow 74 feet combined, in Texas the limit combined is 65 feet.
Michigan's combined tow length is 75' maximum. We towed our 26' fifth wheel and the Bass Tracker behind our short bed F150 extended cab (not crew cab) and were right at 65'. At that length, if I tow with the outboard tilted too far, I could potentially be a tad longer than 65'. I don't think it's possible to tow a 36' fifth wheel and a boat of any significant size and stay below 65'.

Lost, Some people do it and have been "fortunate" to not be stopped.... Some say (I can't verify) that in Florida, out of state visitors have been stopped and forced to unhitch the boat and leave it on the side of the road. That, if true, would deter me from double towing to Florida. I think (my opinion only) that with reciprocity, there shouldn't be an issue, but with other laws, it's difficult to see if a violation exists, however with double towing, it's "in your face" obvious that another trailer is behind the fifth wheel. Unfortunately, much of the "personal experience" I have heard is the "my brother in law had a friend whose father knew a man who lived next to a ...." kind of reports. How accurate the accounts are is suspect at best.
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Old 07-19-2013, 05:13 AM   #29
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Two points when I bought my trailer:
1) The dealer had prominent signs warning that it's the buyer's responsibility to determine the capability of their tow vehicle.
2) I asked if they had a scale, and they didn't, but said a produce distributor up the street did.

I wish I had a tongue weight scale. I know about the bathroom scale trick, but it's a hassle and I'm not confident about its accuracy.
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:06 AM   #30
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Okay, I'm gonna toss in my 2 cents & hope I don't put my foot in it. We also bought our TV before our trailer. Before heading to the trailer lot we spent the evening with the truck's owners manual. It has a towing section & even has examples & scenarios. After doing the numbers, we figured we could tow a pretty good size tt (the bed is too short for a 5er) BUT we were limited to 650 lbs tongue weight due to the real axle limits.

So off to the dealer we go...
Salesman- "what are you gonna tow with?
DH- GMC 4X4 With a 6.0L
Salesman- Okay, should have no problem pulling anything on the lot....
DH- Gotta stay under 650lbs tongue weight
Salesman- Ohhh, lets look at the passports & see what we can find with those specs.

It is the owners responsibility to know what their truck can do.
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:47 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ23 View Post
The problem with towing threads is that some poeple feel a half ton should never be used to haul anything more than groceries, and some think they can pull a space shuttle. The truth is somewhere in between. Just because you see a half ton pulling a large trailer it does not mean he is unsafe or a danger to society, it depends on the specific vehicle/trailer set up. If any of you still feel that I am a menace to society then send me a PM when you come into Wisconsin or Michigans UP and I will let you know where I'll be so you can avoid having me run into you.
TAZ23 -
As I said in my opening sentence..."I'm probably opening up another can of towing worms....."
My intent was not to bash anyone and everyone who tows their RV with a 1/2 T but to ask some questions about restrictions and limitations that have either been self-imposed or suggested by others by someone whose truck is definitely overloaded.
You've obviously ensured that your unit is within its towing capacity and you are not a hazard on the road. I wasn't suggesting that you or anyone else who has a 1/2T is a menace nor was I trying to start a debate about 1/2 vs 3/4 T tow vehicles.

"I'm probably opening up another can of towing worms....but what the heck". I guess I asked for it, didn't I?
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:34 AM   #32
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I know in my experiences, and I see and hear this a lot when it comes to people wanting to buy their first rv. Is that most sales people will tell you what you want to hear. For example: The DW and I have been looking into upgrading to a new 5th wheel. With our truck we have a max payload of 2400 lbs. After taking out for the two of us, a tank of fuel, the hitch, etc. we have roughly about 1800 lbs of payload remaining (according to the manufactures specs). So we go into the dealership and start talking to the sales people. One of the first questions they ask is what are we towing with. After I tell them they start showing us floor plans that are within the towing capacity of the truck but the pin is more then 500 lbs over our payload capacity. The other problem is some of the floor plans are within the tow rating as long as I don't load anything into the trailer. The sales person is just looking at the dry weight and not taking in the thought of me putting 1500 lbs plus into this trailer. The one thing I say to people who ask me about what they think they can pull is know the numbers on your truck before you even start looking.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:30 AM   #33
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I see no one commented on this.

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Plenty of people tow beyond their ratings and are safe...
No they aren't.

Quote:
Plenty of people tow way below their ratings and are UNsafe....

Some of them have accidents. Most of them do not...
Some of them are accidents waiting to happen. Just because it hasn't happened, does not mean it won't.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:50 AM   #34
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First, I think this is a good thread Festus2. Thanks for starting it.

I think one piece of advice we can give people who are buying a TT, assume you are going to load it to it's full carrying capacity.

For example, mine has a dry weight of 6,625 and a carrying capacity of 1,575.

So I assume the trailer weighs 8,200. I know it doesn't (I've weighed it around 7,800) but if I assume that weight when shopping, I should have my margin there.

I don't believe there is anything you can do to a truck to actually change what it can tow. If the DOT (or the US equivalent) stops and weighs you, they will go by the door sticker regardless of any mods done. If you are overweight, your trailer sits on the side of the road. I know they were pushing this in the BC Interior a few years back. Not sure they are still doing it. They were really focusing on 1/2 tons carrying campers (most were well overweight) but did go after trailers as well.

If you are not overweight, then I think some of the mods mentioned do a good job of reducing the white knuckle part of towing. I know filling my water tank makes a difference on my setup, so I do it.

Not really much can be done for the folks who ask after the fact and want to hear all is good. I cringe when I see them on the road but they are all over the place. Yes, most will never have an issue, but I stay well clear. I find it especially painful when I see a rig that should be able to tow the TV fine, but the owner has no clue how to set up the hitch and still has the headlights pointing to the sky.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:26 AM   #35
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Festus, I my point was, when the scales show your over max. wt.s I do hope that something is done to get back into what the makers of the truck and trailer print is max. How many do change to fix the numbers is unknown.
Thinking of my past, I once got rid of a pathfinder for a F150 and another time found my tires where carrying 200lbs over on each rear tire and different tires fixed that problem. I was not over the GVWR just the tries. I thought of my family traveling in thoose times at over wt.s and changed to protect them and also others on the roadway.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:54 PM   #36
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...No they aren't....
Oh I see.

So my buddies that hotshot (with DOT numbers and logbooks and proper registration for the weight) with a 3500 dually at 33K pounds are unsafe? Because you think so? Or because DodFoGMC wont warrant it? Or because...... Elaborate please.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:55 PM   #37
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Some of them are accidents waiting to happen. Just because it hasn't happened, does not mean it won't.
And just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it will.

We're ALL and accident waiting to happen. Murphy logs more miles on the highway than every single one of us combined.
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:00 PM   #38
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...I don't believe there is anything you can do to a truck to actually change what it can tow. If the DOT (or the US equivalent) stops and weighs you, they will go by the door sticker regardless of any mods done. If you are overweight, your trailer sits on the side of the road. I know they were pushing this in the BC Interior a few years back. Not sure they are still doing it. They were really focusing on 1/2 tons carrying campers (most were well overweight) but did go after trailers as well....
Door sticker eh? How aboot I register my 9000 GVWR 2500 for 12,000 lbs? I can do that 'yaknow. And I'm legal.... What would the DOT guy go by then?

Fact of the matter is he can enforce the minimum of the DOT tire rating up to 20,000 lbs per axle or 34,000 for tandem axles... as long as I have paid enough taxes.

If trying to educate of US laws, please cite a reference link. I wont comment on Canadian regulations because I don't live there and dont' pretend to understand them.
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:09 PM   #39
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They're as safe as a 10-ton truck on an 8-ton bridge.
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:11 PM   #40
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They're as safe as a 10-ton truck on an 8-ton bridge.


RV forums are ridiculous at times.

It would be refreshing if..... oh nevermind.
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