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Old 02-19-2021, 03:14 PM   #1
markcee
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Darco Slide Wear

Several weeks back I noticed twin wear marks in the Darco under the sofa slide in our trailer. The trailer is going in to CW Monday for some other work and I was going to have them take a look at it. I am not overly optimistic that this will be covered under my now 4 months expired warranty (or my extended warranty), so have been reading up on the issue, thinking that I may need to tackle this fix myself.

I have read lengthy threads here from 2018 and 2020 regarding DIY corrections to this issue. The primary fix seems to be using either UHMW strips or HDPE. I also found this YouTube video where the poster used sheet metal strips to correct the problem.

Should I need to do this repair on my own, I’m thinking the metal option would be best. However I was thinking 1/16” thick aluminum strips as the 1/8” in the video looked like it may be a bit thick, possibly inviting other binding issues. I would also fasten with flathead stainless screws I could countersink.

So here are some questions:

*Is using either UHMW or HDPE preferred over thin metal for some reason? I would think metal would be the most durable, but didn’t see any reference to that here on the forum, so am skeptical.

*I was confused by references to jacking up and bracing the slide that I read in the forum posts. In watching the video, the poster was able to use a mallet to tap the sheet metal strips between the slide and the slide rollers, without jacking up the slide and using a brace. I’m assuming the only reason to jack/brace the slide is to expose a slight gap between slide and roller so that you can get the reinforcement material between the two. Is that correct? If so, and if I use metal, is tapping the material into place (as shown in the video) acceptable?

*The video showed the slide riding on rollers. Is this how all electric/cable slides typically ride? (Don’t have the trailer with me to run out the slide and look)

*Kind of an aside….there are a lot of references in these threads to marking on the interior floor when this wear occurs. I have none of this. Is this unique to a particular slide type?

(Our two large slides are cable driven, although I do not know who manufactures them. The wardrobe slide appears to just have a metal track. I have no slide documentation in my owner’s bundle, just a couple of generic references in one of the Lippert brochures. I’ve sent an email to Keystone to see if they can clarify what I have, as I would like to download specific manuals/documents.)


Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-19-2021, 03:58 PM   #2
sourdough
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Mark I'm sure you have the BAL Accu Slide sytems.

Most cable driven slides I've seen run over the wear bar instead of rollers. They seem to now be adding "some" rollers on some slides on the higher end models. There may be others that I haven't seen. I would expect that the Cougar 1/2 ton will ride on the wear bars.

I prefer UHMW over any metal strip. The metal will be harder than the plastic material of the wear bar and any additional abrasions caused by the sharp edges, screw holes etc. will eat up the wear bar. When that happens the only solution is to remove the slide and replace the wear bar - not easy or cheap. Driving a metal strip over a roller with the darco above it seems like a very bad idea. The darco is pretty fragile and tears easily. Trying to drive the end of that metal basically into the bottom of the floor seems like a ticking time bomb. Once that darco is cut/torn and then "sort of" covered by that metal strip, those tears will let moisture through into the bottom of the slide and it's only time before bad things start to happen.

I have talked to a manufacturer of uhmw, distributors for it and folks that sell and install it. They all agree that uhmw is very strong, very durable. self lubricating and a perfect fit to run over the wear bars. I believe I was told that as well by Bal Norco when discussing the use of darco alone over a wear bar - they don't recommend it.

Where are the areas being affected? My last trailer was fraying all the darco on the ends of each of the big slides. The bottom of the slides appeared to bow a bit in the middle. No amount of adjusting would make it stop. If it is only on the ends you might look into what I think they call "slide skis". If the ends are the only ones affected I might think that would be the ticket. Anything you try to attach from the bottom is problematic if it has fasteners in it and runs over the wear bar. Those skis, again as I recall, extend under the slide but also up around the outside edge and under the metal strip. You screw them along the edges for support then just add some ProFlex to reseal the metal strip.

On this trailer the darco began being damaged on the first trip (it has rollers on one slide). After "negotiating" with Keystone the bottoms of both big slides were covered in solid uhmw. I no longer worry about tears, abrasions and water intrusion.

If you're only 4 months out of warranty I would surely push to have them repair it. It is a known problem. They probably have a book on it if they kept the stuff I've sent them. Do not stop with the person that answers the phone at customer service - tell them you need to talk to a manager. Let me know how it goes. Darco is a real pet peeve of mine.
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Old 02-19-2021, 04:48 PM   #3
ChuckS
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Two strips of .125 thick UHMW installed with short countersunk wood screws directly over the damaged Darco area with front and rear of the strips beveled will make a permanent lasting repair .

The slide will most likely move easier across the UHMW strips...

For an example of material...

https://www.grainger.com/product/USA...t-Stock-55RC24
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Old 02-19-2021, 04:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Mark I'm sure you have the BAL Accu Slide sytems.

Most cable driven slides I've seen run over the wear bar instead of rollers. They seem to now be adding "some" rollers on some slides on the higher end models. There may be others that I haven't seen. I would expect that the Cougar 1/2 ton will ride on the wear bars.

I prefer UHMW over any metal strip. The metal will be harder than the plastic material of the wear bar and any additional abrasions caused by the sharp edges, screw holes etc. will eat up the wear bar. When that happens the only solution is to remove the slide and replace the wear bar - not easy or cheap. Driving a metal strip over a roller with the darco above it seems like a very bad idea. The darco is pretty fragile and tears easily. Trying to drive the end of that metal basically into the bottom of the floor seems like a ticking time bomb. Once that darco is cut/torn and then "sort of" covered by that metal strip, those tears will let moisture through into the bottom of the slide and it's only time before bad things start to happen.

I have talked to a manufacturer of uhmw, distributors for it and folks that sell and install it. They all agree that uhmw is very strong, very durable. self lubricating and a perfect fit to run over the wear bars. I believe I was told that as well by Bal Norco when discussing the use of darco alone over a wear bar - they don't recommend it.

Where are the areas being affected? My last trailer was fraying all the darco on the ends of each of the big slides. The bottom of the slides appeared to bow a bit in the middle. No amount of adjusting would make it stop. If it is only on the ends you might look into what I think they call "slide skis". If the ends are the only ones affected I might think that would be the ticket. Anything you try to attach from the bottom is problematic if it has fasteners in it and runs over the wear bar. Those skis, again as I recall, extend under the slide but also up around the outside edge and under the metal strip. You screw them along the edges for support then just add some ProFlex to reseal the metal strip.

On this trailer the darco began being damaged on the first trip (it has rollers on one slide). After "negotiating" with Keystone the bottoms of both big slides were covered in solid uhmw. I no longer worry about tears, abrasions and water intrusion.

If you're only 4 months out of warranty I would surely push to have them repair it. It is a known problem. They probably have a book on it if they kept the stuff I've sent them. Do not stop with the person that answers the phone at customer service - tell them you need to talk to a manager. Let me know how it goes. Darco is a real pet peeve of mine.
Thanks Danny....I read with interest your earlier posts on this issue and your lack of mentioning metal as a replacement was one of the reasons I was skeptical on it's use.

We've discussed this before, when I initially reported my issue several weeks ago on this forum. I fully intend on pursuing a covered fix, going up the chain, but just want to be prepared should I receive bad news.

To be honest, I'm not certain CW would perform as good a fix as a well-read trailer owner with average mechanical skills could perform on this problem anyway. The cost of 'parts' seems nominal and I enjoy giving these things a go.....as long as I'm sure I'm doing it right. I sure don't want to make matters worse.

If I recall, you ultimately had a solid surface replacement on your slide(s). Does that mean end to end....the complete slide underlayment was recovered with a solid surface? If so, that is definitely what I will shoot for from Keystone. What material did they use?

But....if I get shutout and they refuse, and I have to go the DIY route, what are your recommendations for sizing/installing UHMW myself?

Example: Jacking/bracing the slide? Screwing the UHMW? I guess I'm looking for a A-Z tutorial for this fix using UHMW.

Thanks!
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Old 02-19-2021, 05:31 PM   #5
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For the repair on this trailer the Keystone "tech" at the warranty dept. recommended 1/4" x 6" wide aluminum strips with many countersunk holes drilled into it with screws. Obviously that could/would not work; I didn't want a drilled/slotted brake rotor filing off the wear bar on every move. After great effort they agreed to cover the bottom of each slide with solid uhmw sheets - costly and time consuming but I didn't want to do this yet again.

As far as the repair you need to know your dealer and the competence of the person to repair the damage. I specified the tech to do the work as I had worked with him on many occasions. I also specified what work was to be done, how and with what materials. I did have to fight for this with the assistance of the tech doing the work/assessing hours etc., the service manager and the gm.

There are a few ways to address the issue depending on the damage and where it's at. I think that an individual can do the work to repair the damage unless it was the entire replacement of the bottom - THAT is a big chore.

Pursue/push this with Keystone and see where it goes; never forget there is a chain. Post back.
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Old 02-19-2021, 05:55 PM   #6
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I have often wondered if using screws to add material to the bottom of the slide is a good idea. I would be concerned that a screw backing out would destroy the wear bar or even worse destroy the vinyl flooring.

I ended up adding three rollers to the bottom of our kitchen slide but I don't have darco damage "yet". I am closely monitoring our darco wear on a regular basis.

I also wonder if you used a hard plastic material like mentioned could it simply be applied and stay in place using liquid nails. That stuff bonds like no tomorrow so I can't imagine it ever coming loose if there is only vertical pressure on it?
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Old 02-19-2021, 06:09 PM   #7
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I have often wondered if using screws to add material to the bottom of the slide is a good idea. I would be concerned that a screw backing out would destroy the wear bar or even worse destroy the vinyl flooring.

I ended up adding three rollers to the bottom of our kitchen slide but I don't have darco damage "yet". I am closely monitoring our darco wear on a regular basis.

I also wonder if you used a hard plastic material like mentioned could it simply be applied and stay in place using liquid nails. That stuff bonds like no tomorrow so I can't imagine it ever coming loose if there is only vertical pressure on it?

Screws, countersunk or not, have been discouraged by everyone I've talked to. The potential for damage is great. Adding rollers is a great idea and may be an alternative to the uhmw, but the rollers as we are seeing, roll up, fray and tear the darco as well over time.

My first shot at placing uhmw used countersunk screws on the outside end and basically "liquid nails" to adhere the rest of the strips. It worked well on the outside ends that rode hard on the wear bar but started to let go a bit in the center of the slides that did not sit on the wear bar - but it was of no consequence. The issue when placing the strips on top of the darco is that the darco itself is only adhered to the bottom of the slide by adhesive....not a good or strong installation.
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Old 02-19-2021, 06:16 PM   #8
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If I were going to use countersunk screws to hold "wear strips" above the rollers" on a slide, I think I'd use 6 countersunk screws. If the slide moves 30", I'd install a 34" plastic wear strip and attach it to the slide underside with 3 screws on the inboard edge of the wear strip and 3 screws on the far outboard edge of the wear strip. That way, the screws would never ride over the roller and provided the roller "lifts" the slide floor above the wear bar, the screws would never contact the wear bar. So, at full extension of the slide, the inboard screws "almost reach the roller" and at full retraction, the outboard screws "almost reach the roller" but none of the screws ever do touch the roller or the wear bar....
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:10 PM   #9
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I used UHMW pressure sensitive tape (.125 x 1) on each end of my slide.

https://www.interstateplastics.com/D...s-UHMWTAPE.php
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Old 02-20-2021, 05:45 AM   #10
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IF you only have the outer edges of the slide bottom Darco fraying then why on earth would you not go right over that worn Darco fabric and attach the UHMW with quality wood screws of the right length and a drop of sealant on each screw to help retain the screw?

You cant just cut out the bad area of Darco and put in UHMW strip down because now you have loose Darco and it wall darn sure bunch up and make a mess the fist time that area ramps up over a wear bar.

My hyd slide outs have no rollers are the only option is to either rip out all the Darco and recover ( complete waste of time and money) or apply UHMW strips over the damaged area and "secured" to the slide bottom..

The UHMW tape might work well on slide outs with rollers but there is no way it is gonna do anything but tear itself up if your slide runs on a wear bar only

Try putting a piece of any kind of UHMW "Tape" over worn Darco and see what happens when that tape starts to ramp up over the wear bar on the bottom.. You will have nothing but a mess..

MY money is on the UHMW and I will be making this repair on one of my hyd slide out bottoms as soon as the weather warms up (April) ... I know the wood screws will not back out and I also am quite confident the UHMW over the word Darco is a solid repair.
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Old 02-20-2021, 07:42 AM   #11
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My hyd slide outs have no rollers are the only option is to either rip out all the Darco and recover ( complete waste of time and money) or apply UHMW strips over the damaged area and "secured" to the slide bottom..

The UHMW tape might work well on slide outs with rollers but there is no way it is gonna do anything but tear itself up if your slide runs on a wear bar only

Try putting a piece of any kind of UHMW "Tape" over worn Darco and see what happens when that tape starts to ramp up over the wear bar on the bottom.. You will have nothing but a mess.

I would advise highly against using any kind of repair tape on Darco that is going to run over the wear bar. The first repair that was ever done for me on Darco was done that way and I didn't inspect the work. I found it after the slide started binding and jerking again. Peeled the tape off and balled it up under the slide on both sides of the wear bar. A total mess and hard to get out - certainly not what you want for a repair.

The uhmw strips are an excellent choice for darco repair in my experience - especially if the worn areas are just along the ends. In that instance I was intrigued by the slide skis I looked into but my repairs had already been made at that time.

I refused the offer of warranty repair with aluminum strips and countersunk screws (about 30 per strip if I recall) due to the possibility of one backing out that I couldn't get to and destroying the wear bar. I do believe I've seen pics of other folks that have secured them with screws (uhmw) and don't recall them having a problem.

Our first uhmw repair was done with screws and adhesive. All the screws were placed where they never went over the wear bar then sealed. The strips were then attached to the darco with adhesive. The downside that I worried about was the darco letting go of the bottom of the slide but in over 6 years that never happened. I will say that if there is no indication of wear, or the bottom of the slide appears to be slightly bowed, placing strips in that area is a waste of time and can lead to problems. We did that in the center of one slide and over time it wanted to loosen slightly and curl on the edges where the adhesive let it sag a bit. Never caused a problem but since it wasn't contacting the wear bar to constantly reinforce the adhered surfaces it wanted to curl a bit where the wear bar wasn't pushing it back into place.
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Old 04-05-2021, 04:37 PM   #12
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Slide Wear Update

I have an update on my worn Darco issue from Camping World, Avondale, AZ.

The trailer has been there for 'diagnosis' and repair of other warranty issues for 6 weeks or so. I heard from them last week and was advised that my slide wear issue would not be covered by either Keystone or my extended warranty (trailer was purchased 12/2019) as this problem is considered an 'improvement/betterment', and not a warranty fix. Cost to repair/readjust the slide is $679. Repair involves adding metal plates to cover the scored/worn areas.

I followed up to this CW news by emailing Keystone customer support, explaining the issue and asking for coverage. I indicated that the RV forums (Keystone and otherwise) contain many postings about this issue. Keystone responded that while this may be a known problem, it could be related to the slide being out of adjustment (90 day warranty). Keystone CS did ask for an estimate from CW for review, so at least they didn't completely shoot me down.

In my response back to Keystone CS I related that CW recommends installing a metal plate (vs. replacing the Darco) to correct this problem. To me this indicates that CW believes Darco alone is not the answer. I also stated that I noticed zero slide use issues, whether running the slide in or out, and that the only reason I found the wear was that I happened to be crouching down to attach the sewer hose and looked up and saw it. My point being that why would I ask for a slide readjustment within 90 days when I never noticed a usage issue?

We'll see what their response is.....
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Old 04-05-2021, 05:19 PM   #13
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Mark, advise them this is NOT an adjustment issue and never has been. I've had mine adjusted, readjusted and readjusted again in the past and....the darco wears on the wear bar. In my situation(s) one of the big slides appeared bowed on the bottom and the darco wore on the ends. There is no adjustment to bow the middle of a slide down and this is a recurring problem across the board with this particular setup. The Norco/Bal engineer I spoke with a few years back even told me that they did not recommend darco for their cable slide systems (Michelle?). Push on Keystone and get a manager to talk to directly.

As far as the metal plates CW proposes, I wouldn't recommend it. That was the proposal given to me on this trailer by CW but it was given to them by the Keystone individual proposing a "fix". They intended to put the plate on the bottom, drill umpteen gillion holes in it (countersunk) and screw it on. That's instant destruction to the wear bar. Kicks the can down the road for Keystone but doesn't do you any good.

If your wear is just on the ends google slide skis. I looked at some that looked easy to install (have to lift the slide with some jacks) and attached to the end transition strips of the slide to keep the ski in place. That is one of the big issues; keep the strip/plate/ski in place without screws etc. tearing up the wear bar.

It is unfortunate you did not see this prior to the expiration of your warranty but IMO they should step up to take care of it since it is a known issue. Just as background; it is a known issue but the problem usually occurs, like yours and mine previously, just outside the warranty period so they discount it as an issue. Push them hard for a manager and proper resolution and post back.
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