Carbon 35 white knuckle towing (Scale says weights should be good)

[Devin_Noel]

We recently acquired a Carbon 35 bumper pull toy hauler & its not been fun to haul. I’m looking for advice on sorting it out.

I've had 2 fishtailing incidents in my life. A used tilting deck trailer on the way home from the auction. Shoveled 200lbs of snow on the front & solved it. The other was in a nearly unloaded 7x14 cargo trailer. Never conclusively diagnosed that one, probably light tongue & some side wind. But that never happened again. I’ve been pretty consensus on proper setup & trailer ballance since then.

I now have a 2014 F350 PowerStroke that pulls my 4k lbs 14k lbs rated 22' deckover trailer just fine. I often have 8-10k of Kubota & implements on it for around 12-14klbs total weight. No WDH, just a Weigh Safe scale hitch. If I get my tongue weight between 1,100 & 1,900lbs it tows just fine. I was assuming RVers were just crazy or incompetent balancing their trailers behind 1/2 ton trucks & having all these constant issues. Then I got the Carbon.

The Carbon 35 came with a Blue Ox WDH & was really twitchy all the way home. I assumed it wasn't balanced properly.but the weigh safe scale says 1.5k lbs with the side by side in the garage & 2k lbs with the garage empty. That was with full fresh water & fuel. It's night & day between hauling the Kubota vs the Carbon. Actual WDH & similar tongue weights yet the flat deck toes WAY better.

I stopped by a Cat scale on the way home from its maiden camping trip with the Carbon. Some fresh water was now in the black & grey tanks, but the truck was loaded with me, a cooler, the wife, the dog & some other minor gear. The trailer was pretty packed with the side by side & a full set of camping gear. Numbers say the trailer is heavier than expected, but well within reason & under the limits, at least as long as I have the UTV in back to unload the tongue weight slightly. Except for trailer weight on a 2” stinger. 2” Blue Ox is rated for 14,000lbs of trailer weight, Ford says “ 2.5" receiver. If the provided 2.5" to 2.0" adapter is used, this reduces the Max. Trailer Capacity to 12,500 lbs. and the Max. Tongue Load to 1,250 lbs. So I should probably upgrade the WDH head to one with a 2.5” shank.



WDH transfers 500lbs from the rear to the front, a little less than I hoped & the front fenders ride an inch or 2 higher. I tried cranking the chains several links tighter, with no changes to towing behavior. It was a little bit looser (still under the 9 links from the end they say to start with) when I rolled across the scale. I have 4 dots on the bars, which should mean they are 1,500lbs bars. Not clear if that’s the amount of weight they transfer, or the hitch weight they are rated for.

We also really only boondock & go across rougher dirt roads. Which has me concerned about possibly bending WDH components. So far no plumbing, jacks or hitches knocked loose, but I did unscrew the cap off the dump pipe, presumably with a hair of ground contact. Any WDHs better than others for dirt roads? Should I just unhitch the WDH when going over the bumps & dips that make it undulate much?

Regretting not getting my way & getting a slightly smaller toy hauler. Or getting a 5th wheel (would have been iffy to hitch up with the saddle toolbox, but my truck actually came with a 5th wheel hitch).

What are my options to make towing not a sub 65mph white knuckle affair?

Lippert Straptek straps on my Blue Ox WDH?
Some other WDH?
$2.5-3k Hensley Arrow hitch?
Deal with it for a year or 2 then upgrade to a slightly smaller one and/or 5th wheel?

[bobbecky]

I'm thinking upgrading the receiver to a 2.5" instead of trying to use an adapter. Using an adapter to go from the 2" to a 2.5" is not giving you the strength you need when towing that load and you want the load as close to the truck frame as possible, not hung out away from it.

[notanlines]

I'm thinking Bob is on the right track here. And the $3K Hensley hitch? No, but there are a number of great 4 point hitches (without chains) that will be recommended by other members, probably with bars. That truck will easily handle that RV, you just need it set up correctly.

[flybouy]

You don't list the scale weights so what percentage of the trailer weight is on the tongue?. If that's correct then move on to the hitch.

First get the correct size hirch head and reduce the movement between the adapters. Second, go over the instructions on setting up the hitch. IMO a good 4 point wdh with sway control is essential. Eliminate those variables first and ifbthe sway is still an issue you need to look at the truck and trailer for proper tire inflation, alignment efc.

[JDDilly]

I agree, a good 4 pt hitch. When I had bumper pull, I used the Equalizer. Not sure what is on the market today, I don't look since I don't have a bumper pull.

[Javi]

Get a 2-1/2" shank with the proper drop and an Equalizer hitch with the proper bars for you trailer...

I personally doubt that the OEM adapter from 2-1/2" to 2" is the root of your problem, I used one for 2 years with no problems but I did have the proper hitch with properly sized bars... I just didn't buy the larger shank since I already had the hitch...

[sourdough]

You are overloading your receiver and the load is too much for that Blue Ox it appears. I would get rid of the sleeve in the receiver, get a 2 1/2" shank hitch with a good 4 point sway control like the Equalizer. Unfortunately I believe the Equalizer maxes out at 1400lb. tongue weight. (which is considered very heavy). Your chart indicates tongue weights of either 1500lbs. (best case) or 1900lbs. Again, that is too much for even a Hensley Arrow/Pro Pride which also maxes out at 1400lbs. Looks like you need to "lighten up" to me.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by sourdough

You are overloading your receiver and the load is too much for that Blue Ox it appears. I would get rid of the sleeve in the receiver, get a 2 1/2" shank hitch with a good 4 point sway control like the Equalizer. Unfortunately I believe the Equalizer maxes out at 1400lb. tongue weight. (which is considered very heavy). Your chart indicates tongue weights of either 1500lbs. (best case) or 1900lbs. Again, that is too much for even a Hensley Arrow/Pro Pride which also maxes out at 1400lbs. Looks like you need to "lighten up" to me.

Equalizer goes to 16K

Blue Ox goes to 20K
https://www.blueoxtowbars.com/catego...b_Hitches,1357

[Ken / Claudia]

I and my buddies remove the WDH and anti sway bar when traveling to hunting camps on dirt/gravel roads. Those roads are to crappy to pull any rv faster than 35 and most speeds are around 25 and under.
Here the logging roads have the water run off ditch's angled across the road bed. Besides the tire ruts sometimes several inches deep. Even at walk speed the WDH bars smashed the ground. Easier to stop and remove that stuff instead of destroying it.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Javi

Equalizer goes to 16K

Blue Ox goes to 20K
https://www.blueoxtowbars.com/catego...b_Hitches,1357

I stand corrected. Must have overlooked the 16k option when I pulled it up. Seems 14k was as big as they went at one time. I see from your link that the Blue Ox comes in the 20k version but pulling up their website I haven't been able to find a way to find it....but it's obviously there. I would still get the Equalizer if I was the OP.

[Devin_Noel]

The picture with the chart of all the weights & other random measurements I took doesn't seem to be showing for you guys. Lets see if this works.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RKqAdUjH56CGx9Ne7

[Javi]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I stand corrected. Must have overlooked the 16k option when I pulled it up. Seems 14k was as big as they went at one time. I see from your link that the Blue Ox comes in the 20k version but pulling up their website I haven't been able to find a way to find it....but it's obviously there. I would still get the Equalizer if I was the OP.

The link I posted goes directly to the 20K

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Devin_Noel

The picture with the chart of all the weights & other random measurements I took doesn't seem to be showing for you guys. Lets see if this works.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RKqAdUjH56CGx9Ne7

According to you chart you are over the GVWR of the trailer by 220 pounds to start with... at 13,220

Tongue weight 2240

[Devin_Noel]

Originally Posted by Javi

According to you chart you are over the GVWR of the trailer by 220 pounds to start with... at 13,220

Tongue weight 2240

Math definitely isn't my strong suit, so I definitely won't die on that hill, but I think those calculations are correct.

Are hitch ratings based on calculated weight from axle weights? Or are my weigh safe actual tongue weights more correct? I now WDHs mess with weight distribution, so I don't know how that factors into the ratings.

If I take the trailer weight of 12,560 - trailer axle scale weight with the WDH on of 11,140 I get 1,420. I get 1,560 calculated tongue weight with no WDH on. Which is 80lbs lighter or 60lbs than measured with the weigh safe, depending on the WDH being engaged or not.

• GVWR on the trailer is 13k (2nd row)
• Cat scales weight on the trailer axles was 11,140 with the WDH on
• Cat scales combined weight of the truck + trailer was 22,240
• Just the truck (nothing hitched on a dedicated pass) was 9,680
• Combined weight - Truck weight gives me 12,560, which is under the 13k GVWR of the trailer
• 1,500lbs of tongue weight on a 12,560lbs trailer comes out to 12% & 1,900 is 15%, although that overloads the hitch slightly. the max 1,800 rating on the hitch is just over 14%. All right in the 10-15% tongue weight you want bumper pull.

Stuff in yellow was close to limits. Stuff in red was over limits, which was either the 2" receiver with a 2.5" adapter, or to much tongue weight when the UTV wasn't in the back.

Assuming I replace the 2" Blue Ox hitch with either a 2.5" Blue Ox hitch, or some other 2.5" WDH & only tow it with the UTV or a pile of other junk in back (maybe no liquids in the tanks, etc. But I have the weigh safe hitch to easily check if I can get under the 1,800lbs limit on a 2.5" WDH hitch) I think I'm within limits of all axles & hitches.

I'm assuming the 2" hitch isn't the cause of any of my sway issues, but you never know. I'll probably replace it with a 2.5" to be safe & legal. The question becomes do I get a 2.5" Blue Ox because I have the other parts already, or do I get some other WDH (Equalizer seems to be the most recommended in this thread) with a 2.5" shank.

I have 2 goals:

1. Make my trailer tow smoothly at highway speeds (get rid of the slight sway)
2. Make sure I'm safe & legal

Issue 2 can be resolved by merely upgrading to something with a 2.5" shank. I don't think the 2" shank relates to any of my sway & stability issues. I'm expecting I'll resolve issue #2 incidentally going to a 2.5" shank trying to resolve issue #1.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Devin_Noel

Math definitely isn't my strong suit, so I definitely won't die on that hill, but I think those calculations are correct.

Are hitch ratings based on calculated weight from axle weights? Or are my weigh safe actual tongue weights more correct? I now WDHs mess with weight distribution, so I don't know how that factors into the ratings.

If I take the trailer weight of 12,560 - trailer axle scale weight with the WDH on of 11,140 I get 1,420. I get 1,560 calculated tongue weight with no WDH on. Which is 80lbs lighter or 60lbs than measured with the weigh safe, depending on the WDH being engaged or not.

• GVWR on the trailer is 13k (2nd row)
• Cat scales weight on the trailer axles was 11,140 with the WDH on
• Cat scales combined weight of the truck + trailer was 22,240
• Just the truck (nothing hitched on a dedicated pass) was 9,680
• Combined weight - Truck weight gives me 12,560, which is under the 13k GVWR of the trailer
• 1,500lbs of tongue weight on a 12,560lbs trailer comes out to 12% & 1,900 is 15%, although that overloads the hitch slightly. the max 1,800 rating on the hitch is just over 14%. All right in the 10-15% tongue weight you want bumper pull.

Stuff in yellow was close to limits. Stuff in red was over limits, which was either the 2" receiver with a 2.5" adapter, or to much tongue weight when the UTV wasn't in the back.

Assuming I replace the 2" Blue Ox hitch with either a 2.5" Blue Ox hitch, or some other 2.5" WDH & only tow it with the UTV or a pile of other junk in back (maybe no liquids in the tanks, etc. But I have the weigh safe hitch to easily check if I can get under the 1,800lbs limit on a 2.5" WDH hitch) I think I'm within limits of all axles & hitches.

I'm assuming the 2" hitch isn't the cause of any of my sway issues, but you never know. I'll probably replace it with a 2.5" to be safe & legal. The question becomes do I get a 2.5" Blue Ox because I have the other parts already, or do I get some other WDH (Equalizer seems to be the most recommended in this thread) with a 2.5" shank.

I have 2 goals:

1. Make my trailer tow smoothly at highway speeds (get rid of the slight sway)
2. Make sure I'm safe & legal

Issue 2 can be resolved by merely upgrading to something with a 2.5" shank. I don't think the 2" shank relates to any of my sway & stability issues. I'm expecting I'll resolve issue #2 incidentally going to a 2.5" shank trying to resolve issue #1.

Truck drive axle weighed 6620 without WDH... without trailer 4380

6620 - 4380 = 2240

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Devin_Noel

The question becomes do I get a 2.5" Blue Ox because I have the other parts already, or do I get some other WDH (Equalizer seems to be the most recommended in this thread) with a 2.5" shank.

I have 2 goals:
[*]Make my trailer tow smoothly at highway speeds (get rid of the slight sway)[*]Make sure I'm safe & legal

For that big of a trailer I would recommend (again) the Equalizer over the Blue Ox. The Equalizer is a true 4 point sway control and the Blue Ox is two. IMO that is not enough for that large of a trailer. Here is what etrailer has to say about it:

"The Equal-i-zer Weight Distribution System and Blue Ox SwayPro Weight Distribution System are both great options. However, in regards to combating trailer sway the edge has to go to the Equal-i-zer because it has true 4-Point sway control whereas Blue Ox really only has a 2-Point sway control system. The additional two points of contact means the system will be able to do a much better job of combating trailer sway. I have attached a photo for you that points out the four points of sway control on the Equal-i-zer.

I would also like to add that the Equal-i-zer has a forged head and the Blue Ox has a cast head. The forged head will be much more durable and last longer than the cast head."

[Devin_Noel]

Originally Posted by Javi

Truck drive axle weighed 6620 without WDH... without trailer 4380

6620 - 4380 = 2240

The front axle also unloaded from 5,300 to 4,620. So the the extra 680lbs between your 2240 & my 1,500lbs of measured & calculated hitch weight comes from the front of the truck.

I definitely hate how a bumper pull turns the truck into a funky lever or teeter totter, especially compared to a gooseneck of 5th wheel.

I had thought about air bags to help keep the truck level. Not sure if or how much air bags would prevent much of that weight transfer. I know they would help keep it more level, which would help keep headlights on the road & potentially better steering. I know they don't help increase axle capacity or any tow ratings, not that I need that.

[BubbaShoots]

I had a similar problem with a Blue Ox Sway Pro. I tightened the chains on the weight distribution bars one link and went on a test drive. I stared at eight links and tightened one link, then another, and another. I found the sweet spot at 11 links.

[slow]

I experimented with my air bags on the CAT scales and found they do not transfer much if any weight forward to the front wheels. It has to come from the WD hitch.