towing a 28'

[flybouy]

My DW was as NICU/L&D nurse. The first thing they learned was to never ask a man "are you the father? " but rather "and jow are you related to the baby." Avoids many a hard feeling, argument, and even fights that way.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by flybouy

My DW was as NICU/L&D nurse. The first thing they learned was to never ask a man "are you the father? " but rather "and jow are you related to the baby." Avoids many a hard feeling, argument, and even fights that way.

Sort of like standing in line at WalMart to check out and asking the couple with that cute red headed kid in the basket if his/her brothers and sisters have that same "cute red hair"....

Our son is Korean (dark complexion and black hair), our daughter is ours "naturally" and has blonde hair and a very light complexion. When they were growing up, at restaurants and other public places, people would stare and make the kids feel "self conscious"... About age 8 or 10, our son would notice people staring and would comment something along the lines of, "She's adopted" (pointing at his sister)... Some of the reactions were "classic" while other gawkers would turn away and never look back toward the kids.....

[kayakjim]

The towing video gives me chills. May 2002 we flipped a trailer because our tow vehicle was not the right size. Since we have had a 5th wheel and a travel trailer. We still camp a lot and enjoy it very much. This despite my wife having a brain injury after the roll over and 6 shoulder surgeries. Oh yeah on disability since. Did I mention my wife was dead on the scene? Thanks goodness for a nurse on his way home and CPR. DONT take the chance folks. We did and it changed our life. It is just not worth it. Turn in the truck, get a loan if you have to and buy a bigger truck OR just don't tow any longer. Few facts. Two 30lb propane tanks weigh 110 lbs and two 6 volt batteries weigh 150 pounds and a hitch weighs 100 lbs. Add all that up to your tongue weight. Oh yeah all the water and clothes, food, etc. Did I mention that Keystone changed the tongue weight in their brochure/online 3 times in one year. They dont even know. Buy a tongue weight scale.

[Mainer]

From my signature, we have a smaller trailer. The Tundra we just sold went to someone with a popup. It had 200 more lbs of payload than your new truck. When scaled with the Tundra we were right at gvwt and we were only loaded for a short trip. If you aren't way overloaded you've got balloons like the movie holding up your tail end. Watch out for cross winds.

[PRF]

Has anyone used these towing guides? Guides are available for 1999 - 2020.

I believe they are useful. Any other opinions?

https://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

[JDDilly]

Only as a first guide. Every TV is different with trim package and options. You need to verify what your payload is for your TV.

[wiredgeorge]

Most popular one ton is an F350. If we did a survey of payload for every F350 owner on this forum bet there are not two alike and likely a spread OVER 1000 lbs. Towing guide? OK but not the real world.

[Gegrad]

The only comment I have is the whole argument of being overloaded for short durations vs being overloaded for long durations not mattering..

Actually, yes it does matter. A lot. The whole concept of risk in insurance, pollution cleanup, etc. is based on this. I am an environmental engineer. We cannot clean every spill up 100% of the time. So we conduct risk assessments to determine what can be left in place.

Risk= Exposure x Duration

The legal limit for benzene in water is 5 parts per billion (ppb). Meaning you can drink water with up to 5 ppb benzene and not exceed the lifetime cancer risk. That is based on the lifetime cancer risk not being elevated beyond baseline cancer risk for an entire lifetime. You can drink water with benzene above 5 ppb occasionally and not experience any side effects. But if you drink water with benzene above 5 ppb for an extended period of time there are likely to be side effects, because the risk will be a larger number.

This is also born out with your auto insurance rates. People who drive 25,000 miles a year pay more for auto insurance than someone who drives 3,000 miles a year (age and other factors being equal). My premium dropped $400 a year when I signed an affidavit with my vehicle mileage that showed I only drove my truck 7,000 miles a year vs the 15,000 they were basing my rate on. Same exact truck. Why? Exposure duration, or Risk. You are far more likely to be involved in an accident driving 25,000 miles a year than driving 3,000 miles a year. Simple probability of someone hitting you, you hitting someone else, you hitting an animal, etc.

If your truck's payload is 2000 lbs, and you put 2005 lbs in it the truck will not break, just like if you drink 6 ppb benzene water you will not get immediately sick. If you put 4500 lbs in the truck and try to drive around you will likely have a problem, just as if you drink 30 ppb benzene water you will likely get sick. If you put 2200 lbs in the truck and drive it that way for 50,000 miles the truck will probably break down early. Similarly if you drink 10 ppb benzene water for 10 years your chances of getting cancer will be higher than someone who didn't.

Similarly, if you tow 250 lbs overloaded for 1,000 miles a year total, there is less risk than someone towing 250 lbs overloaded 9,000 miles a year, or taking a cross country trip.

Risk= exposure x 1000 miles vs.
Risk= same exposure x 9000 miles.

I am not condoning towing overloaded, but I am saying for people on the border of their truck capabilities, who may only be 100 lbs overweight, such as the OP, the difference in acceptable risk may not be much higher than baseline vs. the cost of trading trucks. It's a risk calculation. Someone 150 lbs over their GVW is not nearly as much of a risk as that person towing a 17k toyhauler with a 3/4 ton diesel.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Gegrad

The only comment I have is the whole argument of being overloaded for short durations vs being overloaded for long durations not mattering..

Actually, yes it does matter. A lot. The whole concept of risk in insurance, pollution cleanup, etc. is based on this. I am an environmental engineer. We cannot clean every spill up 100% of the time. So we conduct risk assessments to determine what can be left in place.

Risk= Exposure x Duration

The legal limit for benzene in water is 5 parts per billion (ppb). Meaning you can drink water with up to 5 ppb benzene and not exceed the lifetime cancer risk. That is based on the lifetime cancer risk not being elevated beyond baseline cancer risk for an entire lifetime. You can drink water with benzene above 5 ppb occasionally and not experience any side effects. But if you drink water with benzene above 5 ppb for an extended period of time there are likely to be side effects, because the risk will be a larger number.

This is also born out with your auto insurance rates. People who drive 25,000 miles a year pay more for auto insurance than someone who drives 3,000 miles a year (age and other factors being equal). My premium dropped $400 a year when I signed an affidavit with my vehicle mileage that showed I only drove my truck 7,000 miles a year vs the 15,000 they were basing my rate on. Same exact truck. Why? Exposure duration, or Risk. You are far more likely to be involved in an accident driving 25,000 miles a year than driving 3,000 miles a year. Simple probability of someone hitting you, you hitting someone else, you hitting an animal, etc.

Similarly, if you tow 250 lbs overloaded for 1,000 miles a year total, there is less risk than someone towing 250 lbs overloaded 9,000 miles a year, or taking a cross country trip.

Risk= exposure x 1000 miles vs.
Risk= same exposure x 9000 miles.

I am not condoning towing overloaded, but I am saying for people on the border of their truck capabilities, such as the OP, the difference in acceptable risk may not be much higher than baseline vs. the cost of trading trucks.

Ok, so where does that deer bolt out infront of you? Is that mile 500, 700,??? The majority of autoi nsurance rates are based the risk factors of the vehichle model and even color as well as what zip code you live jn (all theft factors) and your age, sex, education (driver experience and maturity levels). Milage? From what I've been told by family (one VP of an insurace company who was an actuarial then became a certified insurance fraud investigator and another who's an insurance claims adjuster) the milage qustion was related to where the vehichle ends up, not how it got there. Odds are, if you are driving greater distances then the area you are in is an unknown as apposed to say a 15 radius of "typical travel".

I have yet to see 2 weight ratings, 1 for "short distances" and ons for "long distances". If anyone finds one and posts a picture I'll change my mind.

[Blackrock]

Scaled out this week and headed up to the Arizona high country for the next three months. Came out at 13,180 total with the rear truck axle over by 410#. Pulled the grade on hwy 87 up to Payson, Az no problem with outside air temp at 98 degrees.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Gegrad

The only comment I have is the whole argument of being overloaded for short durations vs being overloaded for long durations not mattering..

Actually, yes it does matter. A lot. The whole concept of risk in insurance, pollution cleanup, etc. is based on this. I am an environmental engineer. We cannot clean every spill up 100% of the time. So we conduct risk assessments to determine what can be left in place.

Risk= Exposure x Duration

The legal limit for benzene in water is 5 parts per billion (ppb). Meaning you can drink water with up to 5 ppb benzene and not exceed the lifetime cancer risk. That is based on the lifetime cancer risk not being elevated beyond baseline cancer risk for an entire lifetime. You can drink water with benzene above 5 ppb occasionally and not experience any side effects. But if you drink water with benzene above 5 ppb for an extended period of time there are likely to be side effects, because the risk will be a larger number.

This is also born out with your auto insurance rates. People who drive 25,000 miles a year pay more for auto insurance than someone who drives 3,000 miles a year (age and other factors being equal). My premium dropped $400 a year when I signed an affidavit with my vehicle mileage that showed I only drove my truck 7,000 miles a year vs the 15,000 they were basing my rate on. Same exact truck. Why? Exposure duration, or Risk. You are far more likely to be involved in an accident driving 25,000 miles a year than driving 3,000 miles a year. Simple probability of someone hitting you, you hitting someone else, you hitting an animal, etc.

If your truck's payload is 2000 lbs, and you put 2005 lbs in it the truck will not break, just like if you drink 6 ppb benzene water you will not get immediately sick. If you put 4500 lbs in the truck and try to drive around you will likely have a problem, just as if you drink 30 ppb benzene water you will likely get sick. If you put 2200 lbs in the truck and drive it that way for 50,000 miles the truck will probably break down early. Similarly if you drink 10 ppb benzene water for 10 years your chances of getting cancer will be higher than someone who didn't.

Similarly, if you tow 250 lbs overloaded for 1,000 miles a year total, there is less risk than someone towing 250 lbs overloaded 9,000 miles a year, or taking a cross country trip.

Risk= exposure x 1000 miles vs.
Risk= same exposure x 9000 miles.

I am not condoning towing overloaded, but I am saying for people on the border of their truck capabilities, who may only be 100 lbs overweight, such as the OP, the difference in acceptable risk may not be much higher than baseline vs. the cost of trading trucks. It's a risk calculation. Someone 150 lbs over their GVW is not nearly as much of a risk as that person towing a 17k toyhauler with a 3/4 ton diesel.

You're right, ONE of the risk factors is computed by duration x exposure...

There is NOWHERE that I can find that equation as being the ONLY factor used to calculate risk.... If it were, then toddlers could play in the street "CLOSE to their home" with "reduced risk" when compared to playing in the street "across the country at Grandma's house".... It doesn't work that way....

Risk is relative to exposure but risk is not exclusively a factor of exposure.
Risk is relative to duration but risk is not exclusively a factor of duration.

Risk is affected (increased) by duration and exposure but risk is NOT ELIMINATED by being close to home when towing heavy/overloaded.... To think that is to believe swallowing watermelon seeds is the cause of unexpected pregnancy.....

[Gegrad]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

You're right, ONE of the risk factors is computed by duration x exposure...

There is NOWHERE that I can find that equation as being the ONLY factor used to calculate risk.... If it were, then toddlers could play in the street "CLOSE to their home" with "reduced risk" when compared to playing in the street "across the country at Grandma's house".... It doesn't work that way....

Risk is relative to exposure but risk is not exclusively a factor of exposure.
Risk is relative to duration but risk is not exclusively a factor of duration.

Risk is affected (increased) by duration and exposure but risk is NOT ELIMINATED by being close to home when towing heavy/overloaded.... To think that is to believe swallowing watermelon seeds is the cause of unexpected pregnancy.....

You are right John, but I never said the risk was eliminated. Driving fully under all weights and specs doesn't eliminate you from the risk of having an accident either. I said for people towing close to the border, their risk is less if they are traveling short distances vs. hauling across the country because of the effect of duration. And that risk may be acceptable to them vs. the $20k it might cost to get a different truck. Because I bet you could tow a truck that was heavily overloaded 5 miles down the street if you absolutely needed to and not have an accident, but you would say heck no if asked to tow that exact same setup across the country. Why? Because of the duration.

[flybouy]

r

Originally Posted by Gegrad

You are right John, but I never said the risk was eliminated. Driving fully under all weights and specs doesn't eliminate you from the risk of having an accident either. I said for people towing close to the border, their risk is less if they are traveling short distances vs. hauling across the country because of the effect of duration. And that risk may be acceptable to them vs. the $20k it might cost to get a different truck. Because I bet you could tow a truck that was heavily overloaded 5 miles down the street if you absolutely needed to and not have an accident, but you would say heck no if asked to tow that exact same setup across the country. Why? Because of the duration.

Nothing like arguing with extremes, nothing logical IMO. So where's that "magic" number where "short" becomes "long"? Is that 5 miles, 50 miles, or 500 miles? And where is that "overloaded" number? Is that 5 lbs., 50 lbs., 500 lbs., 5,000 lbs.?

It's like busting the speed limit, if everyone is driving 75 in a 65 zone then some folks rationalize that it's okay to go 85. Where is that "cut off"? The sign, and the law says 65. Speed limits are set by highway civil engineers after reviewing traffic studies, weather histoty, road surfaces, etc. to promote public safety. Get into a serious accident and bet your a$$ the investigators will be re iewing your speed.

Weight limits are set by manufacturers after extensive analysis of testing, design and engineering data including various environmental dynamics such as wind, road surface adhesion etc. Get into a serious accident and you can bet that will be investigated as well and I'll also bet when depose by the other side or on the wutness stand the question "how sre you more qualified than the people who set these limits?"

[travelin texans]

How many times have we read these same excuses?
"I know I'm overloaded by XXXXlbs, but only driving 65 mph for XXX miles so it'll be fine", "the dealer said", "my _______ truck tows it like there's nothing back there" or the latest "I work on high steel construction so not afraid to tow overloaded"!!!

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Gegrad

You are right John, but I never said the risk was eliminated. Driving fully under all weights and specs doesn't eliminate you from the risk of having an accident either. I said for people towing close to the border, their risk is less if they are traveling short distances vs. hauling across the country because of the effect of duration. And that risk may be acceptable to them vs. the $20k it might cost to get a different truck. Because I bet you could tow a truck that was heavily overloaded 5 miles down the street if you absolutely needed to and not have an accident, but you would say heck no if asked to tow that exact same setup across the country. Why? Because of the duration.

The accident could happen almost immediately..it makes no difference if your 1000 miles from home or 10 miles from home..being overloaded is overloaded from the 1st mile to the 1000th mile ..it’s like no such thing as being “a little pregnant”

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

How many times have we read these same excuses?
"I know I'm overloaded by XXXXlbs, but only driving 65 mph for XXX miles so it'll be fine", "the dealer said", "my _______ truck tows it like there's nothing back there" or the latest "I work on high steel construction so not afraid to tow overloaded"!!!

Yup, a lot of us have been there ourselves. When you have experienced it yourself and then hear all the excuses that you used when you were in that position is a lot like hearing a child explain away something they did. You've hear it all before because you've said it all before. It actually becomes quite amusing after a while.

The "high steel" bravado speech was special. I guess by his logic he would be ok with his family "walking the steel" and taking the risk with him.