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Old 12-01-2020, 06:38 PM   #41
gearhead
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I'm not trying to pick a fight but....you are probably one of the very few that are even aware of all this verbage. I live in a small town full of Bubbas and Bubbettes. Any of their pickups over 3 years old are running tires that bear no semblance to OEM supplied. They will put the most aggressive mud grips they can find on their truck. Then hook up a gooseneck loaded with mud buggies and head the woods or beach. Most likely aired down the tires before hunting season and never though about it again. I'm not saying that's right but I'm 70 years old and those boys are more like 27. One of them has the same last name as me. I don't recall any catastrophic wrecks around here blamed on aired down mud grips.
I really do enjoy your posts. Keep them coming. My responses are not intended to be mean.
Were you a CPO i n the Navy?
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:38 PM   #42
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[QUOTE
Were you a CPO in the Navy?[/QUOTE]

Yes!

And I once had the opportunity to read the oath of reenlistment to a fellow CPO.

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Old 12-21-2020, 01:43 PM   #43
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Load capacity reserves for RV trailer tires.

When the trailer manufacturer follows the minimum instructions for tire load capacity for RV trailer tires, they MUST comply with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS).

The standards have not changed. They read – in part – that tires fitted to the RV trailer’s axles MUST provide a load capacity equal to the vehicle certified GAWRs. That rule is unchanged. The rules committees meetings of 2007 & 2010 did not take action on recommendations for an increase in tire load capacity to provide load capacity reserves.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is responsible for the contents of FMVSS. NHTSA knows and publishes information compiled from actual conditions that 55% of all RV trailers have at least one tire position overloaded. Knowing that, why would they not try to help resolve that overloading with load capacity reserves for Original Equipment (OE) tires?

RV trailer manufacturer’s have the authority to set GAWRs to a lower load capacity than certified by the axle manufacturer. Here is an example of how blatant Keystone got at pushing the minimum standards. Do the math and you’ll see that the certification label is depicting OE tires with ZERO load capacity reserves. I assumed those axles were 5200# Dexter’s de-rated to 5080# GAWR.

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Here’s another question about the above information. It’s a known fact that RV Trailer tires degrade. How long do you think it took those OE tires to degrade below what they were carrying?

Most of us that have been writing about RV trailer tires for 10 or more years have always recommended at least 12% - 15% in load capacity reserves are provided from all replacements. Back then there were two brands not being used as OEM, Maxxis & Sailun. When used as replacements with plenty of load capacity reserves their performance was noted as being much better than OE tires. They were proving load capacity reserves that were providing a longer life span for those tires. It’s too bad Maxxis did not start providing more designated sizes and speed ratings.

Finally a huge and powerful RV trailer organization (RVIA) stepped-in and required all of their members – about 98% of all RV trailer manufacturers – to provide at least 10% in load capacity reserves for all OE tire fitments. Because of the way tire industry standards are written for replacement tires, all OE tires being provided on today’s RV trailer axles will be required to provide that 10% load capacity reserve recommendation for all subsequent replacements. The tire industry standard: Replacement tires MUST provide a load capacity equal to or greater than what the OE tires provided. Pun – a catch-22.

I cannot overstress the fact that inflating your tires to the load carried IS NOT a FMVSS standard. It’s a FMVSA standard which is not applicable with FMVSS. Truckers and other commercial carriers do it. Their tires are designed as commercial. They are weighed to the load carried for each load they carry. They stop at weigh/inspection stations and are randomly checked.
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Old 12-21-2020, 02:39 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
When the trailer manufacturer follows the minimum instructions for tire load capacity for RV trailer tires, they MUST comply with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS).

The standards have not changed. They read – in part – that tires fitted to the RV trailer’s axles MUST provide a load capacity equal to the vehicle certified GAWRs. That rule is unchanged. The rules committees meetings of 2007 & 2010 did not take action on recommendations for an increase in tire load capacity to provide load capacity reserves.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is responsible for the contents of FMVSS. NHTSA knows and publishes information compiled from actual conditions that 55% of all RV trailers have at least one tire position overloaded. Knowing that, why would they not try to help resolve that overloading with load capacity reserves for Original Equipment (OE) tires?

RV trailer manufacturer’s have the authority to set GAWRs to a lower load capacity than certified by the axle manufacturer. Here is an example of how blatant Keystone got at pushing the minimum standards. Do the math and you’ll see that the certification label is depicting OE tires with ZERO load capacity reserves. I assumed those axles were 5200# Dexter’s de-rated to 5080# GAWR.

Attachment 31227

Here’s another question about the above information. It’s a known fact that RV Trailer tires degrade. How long do you think it took those OE tires to degrade below what they were carrying?

Most of us that have been writing about RV trailer tires for 10 or more years have always recommended at least 12% - 15% in load capacity reserves are provided from all replacements. Back then there were two brands not being used as OEM, Maxxis & Sailun. When used as replacements with plenty of load capacity reserves their performance was noted as being much better than OE tires. They were proving load capacity reserves that were providing a longer life span for those tires. It’s too bad Maxxis did not start providing more designated sizes and speed ratings.

Finally a huge and powerful RV trailer organization (RVIA) stepped-in and required all of their members – about 98% of all RV trailer manufacturers – to provide at least 10% in load capacity reserves for all OE tire fitments. Because of the way tire industry standards are written for replacement tires, all OE tires being provided on today’s RV trailer axles will be required to provide that 10% load capacity reserve recommendation for all subsequent replacements. The tire industry standard: Replacement tires MUST provide a load capacity equal to or greater than what the OE tires provided. Pun – a catch-22.

I cannot overstress the fact that inflating your tires to the load carried IS NOT a FMVSS standard. It’s a FMVSA standard which is not applicable with FMVSS. Truckers and other commercial carriers do it. Their tires are designed as commercial. They are weighed to the load carried for each load they carry. They stop at weigh/inspection stations and are randomly checked.
In a past discussion on this subject I thought you said I couldn’t go up a size in tires? This was to go with Goodyear endurance tires that would “meet or exceed” OE tires . Is it absolutely against the law to change tire size? I’m just curious if I misunderstood your past argument
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Old 12-21-2020, 02:51 PM   #45
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In a past discussion on this subject I thought you said I couldn’t go up a size in tires? This was to go with Goodyear endurance tires that would “meet or exceed” OE tires . Is it absolutely against the law to change tire size? I’m just curious if I misunderstood your past argument
Going up with a load range, say, from LRC - LRD is not a tire size change.

Going from a ST205/75R15 to a ST215/75R15 is a tire size change.

Your Keystone owner's manual will tell you to seek information/recommendation/approval from the trailer manufacturer. That owner's manual information is there because NHTSA mandated it to be there.

Bottom line: In the tire standards, rules, regulations world, only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier have the authority for size/design/options changes.
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Old 12-21-2020, 02:58 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
Going up with a load range, say, from LRC - LRD is not a tire size change.

Going from a ST205/75R15 to a ST215/75R15 is a tire size change.

Your Keystone owner's manual will tell you to seek information/recommendation/approval from the trailer manufacturer. That owner's manual information is there because NHTSA mandated it to be there.

Bottom line: In the tire standards, rules, regulations world, only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier have the authority for size/design/options changes.
Ok so that applies to automobile tires then as well?
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:04 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
Going up with a load range, say, from LRC - LRD is not a tire size change.

Going from a ST205/75R15 to a ST215/75R15 is a tire size change.

Your Keystone owner's manual will tell you to seek information/recommendation/approval from the trailer manufacturer. That owner's manual information is there because NHTSA mandated it to be there.

Bottom line: In the tire standards, rules, regulations world, only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier have the authority for size/design/options changes.
These organizations that control all of this are giant bloated buerocratic agency’s that are slow to change and mired in rules that are probably 10 years behind actual present day manufacturing processes. I do appreciate your wisdom and knowledge in all of this but it’s hard to take anything seriously from agency’s that probably run like the post office in a perpetual deficit. Anyway thank you for taking the time to answer my questions!
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:14 PM   #48
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It looks like a small part of the nhtsa budget goes toward vehicle safety and rvia is slashing budgets and not filling vacancies. It’s hard to believe that anyone would be focused on changing a tire up one size. Probably something that was jotted down and never challenged so we have another regulation that doesn’t make sense
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:16 PM   #49
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By the way thank you for your service to our country! I really appreciated those that served in the military
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:43 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
Going up with a load range, say, from LRC - LRD is not a tire size change.

Going from a ST205/75R15 to a ST215/75R15 is a tire size change.

Your Keystone owner's manual will tell you to seek information/recommendation/approval from the trailer manufacturer. That owner's manual information is there because NHTSA mandated it to be there.

Bottom line: In the tire standards, rules, regulations world, only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier have the authority for size/design/options changes.
And also I hope you don’t think I’m directing my frustration with you. I appreciate your time spent posting on the forum. It’s more my frustration with over reaching rules and not having many good choices with tires. Thank you again
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:44 PM   #51
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Against the law to change tire size?? Well excretement. Is that the law in Costa Rico as well? I'm about ready to bail outa here anyway.
100% BS.
But thanks for telling us.
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Old 12-21-2020, 06:25 PM   #52
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Against the law to change tire size?? Well excretement. Is that the law in Costa Rico as well? I'm about ready to bail outa here anyway.
100% BS.
But thanks for telling us.
There aren't enouh jail cells to lock all of us up... What with the COVID violations, the tire size violations, the recycling regulations (just to start) there's probably 10 times the number of people "deserving jail cells" as there are cells to put them in....

Like AE Neuman, "What, me worry?"
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Old 12-21-2020, 06:33 PM   #53
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^LMAO.
I live in Texas. We break laws for sport. I wouldn't suggest enforcing that tire law here.
It is truly unimaginable.
Oh yeah there is a long line of folks that deserve some bar time ahead of tire size outlaws.
You know the song: ***** you, we're from Texas.
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Old 12-21-2020, 06:44 PM   #54
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^LMAO.
I live in Texas. We break laws for sport. I wouldn't suggest enforcing that tire law here.
It is truly unimaginable.
Oh yeah there is a long line of folks that deserve some bar time ahead of tire size outlaws.
You know the song: ***** you, we're from Texas.
Thanks.... I think.... Now I'll be whistling that all night
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Old 12-21-2020, 06:56 PM   #55
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Me too.
Whoever wrote that song should be embarrassed to cash that monthly check.
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Old 12-21-2020, 08:12 PM   #56
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IMO they're tires. I've been doing them a long time - most brands, lots of sizes on lots of thing. I just keep on doing what I'm doing and listen....as fits my mood, to those things that get down in the weeds. Keep safe, have fun and.....have a Merry Christmas y'all.
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Old 12-21-2020, 09:44 PM   #57
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I've always been forthright in my tire presentations about tires in this forum. I do that by often saying I'm writing from the point of view of how its supposed to be done, in accordance with established tire rules, regulations and tire industry standards.

So lets go on another tack. Let's say you drive into a well known tire retailer's place of business with your every day car of SUV. Regardless what manufacturer built your every day wheels the retailer is going to have a computerized listing for replacement tires approved by the vehicle manufacturer. They will also have pre-approved listings for plus sizing your OE tires and the procedure for changing designs from "P" to "LT". THERE ARE NO SUCH LISTINGS OR LIKE PROCEDURES FOR RV TRAILER TIRES. The retailer MUST rely on recommendations or options provided by the trailer manufacturer.

I've provided references from the sources of the information I've used in the posts you're unsatisfied with. Show me errors I've made based what you find in any of the references that is contradictory from my presentation and I'll retract my statement with an apology.

The words law and brand are not found anywhere in FMVSS. However, law may be found in CFR documents about tire safety.
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Old 12-21-2020, 10:01 PM   #58
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Ok so that applies to automobile tires then as well?
Automobile tires are subject to different fitment standards. However, the selection of OE tires will still set the stage for all subsequent replacements. Everything is linked to vehicle certifications.
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Old 12-21-2020, 10:09 PM   #59
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Against the law to change tire size?? Well excretement. Is that the law in Costa Rico as well? I'm about ready to bail outa here anyway.
100% BS.
But thanks for telling us.
This is an intreptutation about tire industry standards from the law offices of NHTSA.

"Industry standards form the basis for demonstrating product safety and quality before courts, regulators, retailers, consumers and others."

Can you show me where I referenced "law"?
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Old 12-22-2020, 03:01 AM   #60
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Bottom line: In the tire standards, rules, regulations world, only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier have the authority for size/design/options changes.
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