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Old 04-25-2021, 04:46 PM   #41
Krog1278
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The OP is correct on his wiring finding, I too went down the same rabbit hole with a 2012 keystone Laredo. The wiring leaves that 30 amp breaker and goes right to the side in/out switch. Then straight to the slide motor, no relays or any form of circuit protection other than the 30 amp breaker and the switch that’s rated for 40 amps.
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Old 04-25-2021, 05:07 PM   #42
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The voltage issues really sound like corroded terminals at some point in the wiring harness. Finding it can be a bear. If you easily bypass with new wiring this may be your best bet.
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Old 04-26-2021, 10:17 AM   #43
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The OP is correct on his wiring finding, I too went down the same rabbit hole with a 2012 keystone Laredo. The wiring leaves that 30 amp breaker and goes right to the side in/out switch. Then straight to the slide motor, no relays or any form of circuit protection other than the 30 amp breaker and the switch that’s rated for 40 amps.
Thanks for the input. When all is said and done, that is what I found to be true. Why they put that inline 15 amp fuse into the system is anybody's guess. Maybe they put it in so when the slide began to draw over 15 amps and blew the the fuse they would take it to the dealer for a slide adjustment. I can see that 30 amp motor drawing more power when the slide develops friction, which they all do.

Also, one of my clients who is a 40 year electrician came into my office on Friday. I told him about the 15 amp fuse on a 30 amp motor and he said that doesn't make sense. He also agreed that it could be a Keystone decision so people go to the dealer to have their slide adjusted when the 15 amp fuse blows. This electrician also lives in his RV, so he is familiar with RV problems.
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Old 04-26-2021, 10:18 AM   #44
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The voltage issues really sound like corroded terminals at some point in the wiring harness. Finding it can be a bear. If you easily bypass with new wiring this may be your best bet.
And this is what I've done. The slide out works perfect. And I'll keep everyone posted as time goes by.
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Old 04-26-2021, 11:01 AM   #45
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And this is what I've done. The slide out works perfect. And I'll keep everyone posted as time goes by.
Great you got it figured out.. I’m just curious but when you had the low voltage from the switch or wire to ground, are you sure you were reading + 4 volts? If you had a hot skin short somewhere close that might read - 4 volts on the meter to ground. Could you take a non contact voltage tester or and check the frame? It certainly sounds like a short or corrosion somewhere although before you figured it out I was leaning towards a tight or stuck slide mechanism and was going to suggest you leave motor hooked up but disconnect linkage to test. motor could sound fine with no load on it freespinning
I also wonder if they meant to put a 15 amp fuse in ( are the wires to the fuse a separate pigtail?)and are those wires 10 gauge as well? maybe they either cut the wire by accident and threw in a fuse to repair ( probably not) or just reached into a box of fuses and pulled out the wrong one..I could see that
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Old 04-26-2021, 12:40 PM   #46
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Great you got it figured out.. I’m just curious but when you had the low voltage from the switch or wire to ground, are you sure you were reading + 4 volts? If you had a hot skin short somewhere close that might read - 4 volts on the meter to ground. Could you take a non contact voltage tester or and check the frame? It certainly sounds like a short or corrosion somewhere although before you figured it out I was leaning towards a tight or stuck slide mechanism and was going to suggest you leave motor hooked up but disconnect linkage to test. motor could sound fine with no load on it freespinning
I also wonder if they meant to put a 15 amp fuse in ( are the wires to the fuse a separate pigtail?)and are those wires 10 gauge as well? maybe they either cut the wire by accident and threw in a fuse to repair ( probably not) or just reached into a box of fuses and pulled out the wrong one..I could see that
There was no voltage reading on any of the ground tests. The low voltage reading was on the hot lead coming to the switch. And if there was a short it would most likely blow a fuse or trip the 30 amp auto reset breaker.

I did test the motor. I totally removed the motor and did a field test. Everything checked out. Then I replaced and tested the motor after I ran a new hot wire directly from the 30 amp auto reset breaker to the switch. The slide worked perfect, in and out, after I replaced the 15 amp fuse with a 30 amp fuse. No hot wires, no smell, no tripped breaker.

The slide has a little friction, but nothing out of the ordinary. It's not as smooth as when the unit was brand new, but like I said, nothing binding and a little wiggle at the end before it closed up tight. And the slide ran much better after I had used my new hot lead.

The inline 15 amp fuse connects directly to the 30 amp auto reset breaker and then connects to the hot lead that goes to the switch. All wires are 10 gauge, which is rated for 30 amp. And there's a sticker on the pigtail that says 15 amp, which could have been put there by anyone, but the wire on the pigtail is 10 gauge.

I've also done a ton of research online about this and there are so many people who have complained about that 15 amp fuse blowing. And they did the same thing I did, replaced it with a 30 amp. The motor is a 30 amp motor and it makes no sense to protect it with a 15 amp fuse.
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Old 04-26-2021, 12:47 PM   #47
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There was no voltage reading on any of the ground tests. The low voltage reading was on the hot lead coming to the switch. And if there was a short it would most likely blow a fuse or trip the 30 amp auto reset breaker.

I did test the motor. I totally removed the motor and did a field test. Everything checked out. Then I replaced and tested the motor after I ran a new hot wire directly from the 30 amp auto reset breaker to the switch. The slide worked perfect, in and out, after I replaced the 15 amp fuse with a 30 amp fuse. No hot wires, no smell, no tripped breaker.

The slide has a little friction, but nothing out of the ordinary. It's not as smooth as when the unit was brand new, but like I said, nothing binding and a little wiggle at the end before it closed up tight. And the slide ran much better after I had used my new hot lead.

The inline 15 amp fuse connects directly to the 30 amp auto reset breaker and then connects to the hot lead that goes to the switch. All wires are 10 gauge, which is rated for 30 amp. And there's a sticker on the pigtail that says 15 amp, which could have been put there by anyone, but the wire on the pigtail is 10 gauge.

I've also done a ton of research online about this and there are so many people who have complained about that 15 amp fuse blowing. And they did the same thing I did, replaced it with a 30 amp. The motor is a 30 amp motor and it makes no sense to protect it with a 15 amp fuse.
Ok I was not really doubting your work. I just like to figure out mystery’s lol
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Old 04-26-2021, 12:54 PM   #48
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Ok I was not really doubting your work. I just like to figure out mystery’s lol
Haha...I'm the same way. Joining this forum is hard for me. So many mysteries, and like you, I want answers in case the problem discussed happens to me.



And one other thing I've mentioned on this thread is the slide out switch is rated for 40 amps. So, 30 amp wire, 30 amp motor, 30 amp auto reset breaker, 40 amp switch, and then an inline 15 amp fuse???
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Old 04-26-2021, 03:56 PM   #49
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The 30A fuse resolution makes sense as the load on the motor goes up.

15A is likely the normal, clean load on the motor. Your check of the out of & unloaded motor would not likely draw anywhere near 15A let alone 30A.
It's likely the 15A fuse is adequate under actual use conditions, but I doubt keystone would buy the 30A (about 1/2 hp) motor unless nothing else were available.

I'm interested in this thread since we live in a 24sabwe 2020, & things like this seem to multiply. Though our system has no direct switches. Its the incommand sys which has it's own "anomalies"



Question 1, where did you find the fuse.

Question 2: did you measure the voltage drop from the motor ground point to battery ground terminal? That would find a bad ground-frame connection which would cause the type of blown fuse condition you see.
Question 3: did you do a manual crank in & out several times checking for binding?

Question 4: was the 15A fuse a slow-blow or normal? Slow-blow's take the high, short peak loads & if not replaced by same, a "bind in the works" would blow it.

I agree that it makes no sense thay K would even design such a thing. Why wouldn't they out in a 20A or 25A to blind side the problem.
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Old 04-26-2021, 04:30 PM   #50
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I agree that it makes no sense thay K would even design such a thing. Why wouldn't they out in a 20A or 25A to blind side the problem.
Can you please translate this for me?
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Old 04-26-2021, 05:36 PM   #51
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Sorry, I mistyped

Should have been "put" rather than "out" .



They probably selected s fuse size (15A) 15 Amp which was less than the "normal" load/draw of the motor as it was being used. A 20 Amp or 25A would probably have worked just as well. Particularly if it were slow-blow.

Hope that makes sense
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Old 04-26-2021, 05:39 PM   #52
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K being Keystone, blind side meaning ignore themselves while causing the problem to be discovered by the T owner much later than warranty coverage.
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Old 04-26-2021, 06:32 PM   #53
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Thank you so much Mot.
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Old 04-27-2021, 10:56 AM   #54
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The 30A fuse resolution makes sense as the load on the motor goes up.

15A is likely the normal, clean load on the motor. Your check of the out of & unloaded motor would not likely draw anywhere near 15A let alone 30A.
It's likely the 15A fuse is adequate under actual use conditions, but I doubt keystone would buy the 30A (about 1/2 hp) motor unless nothing else were available.

I'm interested in this thread since we live in a 24sabwe 2020, & things like this seem to multiply. Though our system has no direct switches. Its the incommand sys which has it's own "anomalies"



Question 1, where did you find the fuse.

Question 2: did you measure the voltage drop from the motor ground point to battery ground terminal? That would find a bad ground-frame connection which would cause the type of blown fuse condition you see.
Question 3: did you do a manual crank in & out several times checking for binding?

Question 4: was the 15A fuse a slow-blow or normal? Slow-blow's take the high, short peak loads & if not replaced by same, a "bind in the works" would blow it.

I agree that it makes no sense thay K would even design such a thing. Why wouldn't they out in a 20A or 25A to blind side the problem.
The fuse is pigtailed off of the 30 amp auto reset breaker which is located on the frame of the trailer right by the batteries.

I tested the hot lead to the switch using the ground on the switch and the frame of the camper. Both grounds gave the same voltage reading, so no ground problem.

Yes, I manually cranked the slide completely in both directions. No problem there. But like I said, the slide wiggles a little at the end when being closed up when motor driven. I've been RV'ing for 14 years and we had a slide in our other camper. Slides are never perfect.

It was a slow blow. When it blew the first time I put another 15 amp fuse in and when I got close to the end of bringing the slide in, I carefully turned the switch on and off and got it to the end. And the final push blew the fuse, but the slide was all the way in. Then I put the 30 amp fuse in and no problems since. I thought about using a smaller amp fuse, like a 25, but after considering the wiring diagram that is strait from Lippert components, showing there shouldn't even be a fuse there, I decided to go for the 30 amp.

And that is a big part of this problem. The Lippert diagram shows the hot lead to the slide switch coming strait off of the 30 amp auto reset breaker. And that makes sense as every trail in this electrical circuit is 30 amp, including the motor.
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Old 04-27-2021, 12:37 PM   #55
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And that is a big part of this problem. The Lippert diagram shows the hot lead to the slide switch coming strait off of the 30 amp auto reset breaker. And that makes sense as every trail in this electrical circuit is 30 amp, including the motor.
That's the issue... why put a fuse of any size directly after a circuit breaker going to a motor of the same draw as the circuit breaker... seems odd.. I could maybe see it if for instance the motor was 15 amp... unless there were two 15 amp draw motors on the same circuit, both fused with 15 amps...
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Old 04-27-2021, 12:43 PM   #56
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The fuse is pigtailed off of the 30 amp auto reset breaker which is located on the frame of the trailer right by the batteries.

I tested the hot lead to the switch using the ground on the switch and the frame of the camper. Both grounds gave the same voltage reading, so no ground problem.

Yes, I manually cranked the slide completely in both directions. No problem there. But like I said, the slide wiggles a little at the end when being closed up when motor driven. I've been RV'ing for 14 years and we had a slide in our other camper. Slides are never perfect.

It was a slow blow. When it blew the first time I put another 15 amp fuse in and when I got close to the end of bringing the slide in, I carefully turned the switch on and off and got it to the end. And the final push blew the fuse, but the slide was all the way in. Then I put the 30 amp fuse in and no problems since. I thought about using a smaller amp fuse, like a 25, but after considering the wiring diagram that is strait from Lippert components, showing there shouldn't even be a fuse there, I decided to go for the 30 amp.

And that is a big part of this problem. The Lippert diagram shows the hot lead to the slide switch coming strait off of the 30 amp auto reset breaker. And that makes sense as every trail in this electrical circuit is 30 amp, including the motor.
I did a search on slide out motors with fuses..is it possible that they intend to have the 15 amp fuse because if you have a 30 amp fuse then the motor might burn up or overheat before it blows the fuse? If you search this forum and a few others on the internet is seems the motor when it’s on its last legs will start to draw more amps or a fluctuation of amps.
Maybe the motor is technically rated for max 30 amps but in reality can only handle that a few times before it does lasting damage.
I’m thinking the wire is fine the 15 amp fuse is fine and the motor likely is on its last leg.
That’s why it worked for 5 years and all of a sudden not working.
It’s almost never a good idea to increase the fuse size because someone may have had a reason for it. .the motor as I said previously would test fine on the ground with no load but if it was side by side to a new one you would probably notice a difference.
Oh and I believe the low voltage phantom voltage is a red herring
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Old 04-27-2021, 12:53 PM   #57
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That's the issue... why put a fuse of any size directly after a circuit breaker going to a motor of the same draw as the circuit breaker... seems odd.. I could maybe see it if for instance the motor was 15 amp... unless there were two 15 amp draw motors on the same circuit, both fused with 15 amps...
I totally agree. I almost bypassed that fuse altogether but opted for the 30 amp fuse instead.

But this whole dilemma gets stranger by the minute. Like you said, why put a fuse in front of a circuit breaker? Use one or the other.
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Old 04-27-2021, 01:04 PM   #58
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I did a search on slide out motors with fuses..is it possible that they intend to have the 15 amp fuse because if you have a 30 amp fuse then the motor might burn up or overheat before it blows the fuse? If you search this forum and a few others on the internet is seems the motor when it’s on its last legs will start to draw more amps or a fluctuation of amps.
Maybe the motor is technically rated for max 30 amps but in reality can only handle that a few times before it does lasting damage.
I’m thinking the wire is fine the 15 amp fuse is fine and the motor likely is on its last leg.
That’s why it worked for 5 years and all of a sudden not working.
It’s almost never a good idea to increase the fuse size because someone may have had a reason for it. .the motor as I said previously would test fine on the ground with no load but if it was side by side to a new one you would probably notice a difference.
Then just use a fuse and not a 30 amp auto reset breaker. With a 15 amp fuse in front of the breaker, there's no need for the breaker.

Yes, I've had the RV for almost 5 years but we only go camping a few times a year. The unit is winterized in September and we don't use it again until April. So in 5 years we've used it about 12 times. This is our 5th season coming up.

And my unit is made for the Northwest so the entire underbelly is enclosed. When I accessed the motor it looked brand new. When I tested it unhooked, it worked perfect. When I rewired the switch the motor worked perfect. No growl, no grinding, no weird noises, just smooth operation.
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Old 04-27-2021, 01:04 PM   #59
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I totally agree. I almost bypassed that fuse altogether but opted for the 30 amp fuse instead.

But this whole dilemma gets stranger by the minute. Like you said, why put a fuse in front of a circuit breaker? Use one or the other.
The fuse could be to protect the motor and the 30 amp circuit breaker is to protect the wiring harness itself..is it possible they only use one size slide wire ,one size circuit breaker rated for wire size and then fuse the motor for its safe rating not max rating..that way it will blow before any damage is done to slide mechanism...and with that I will stop throwing out ideas lol
Can’t help myself sometimes
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Old 04-27-2021, 02:13 PM   #60
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The fuse could be to protect the motor and the 30 amp circuit breaker is to protect the wiring harness itself..is it possible they only use one size slide wire ,one size circuit breaker rated for wire size and then fuse the motor for its safe rating not max rating..that way it will blow before any damage is done to slide mechanism...and with that I will stop throwing out ideas lol
Can’t help myself sometimes

lol...Well, a fuse and a breaker are basically the same thing. Why don't we use a fuse and a breaker in our house electricity? Same with our cars? It's one or the other.

Now, you can fuse/breaker a specific appliance. My wife uses a hair dryer and the cord has a GFI on it in case it's dropped in water. But most electrical appliances, which includes vacuums, stereos, ovens, etc., they all rely on the breakers in your power grid to "Trip" in case too many amps are drawn on a circuit.

In my RV's situation, the fuse AND the breaker protect the hot lead going to the switch. So all of the 30 amp wiring coming from the point of power are the same, going directly to the 40 amp switch, which is then transmitted to the 30 amp motor. So in this case, the 30 amp auto reset breaker is pointless if there is a 15 amp fuse in front of it, because if the system becomes overloaded, that 15 amp fuse will blow before the breaker overheats.

And all of this is happening, front to back, in a 30 amp World (circuit).

The only reason I see the 15 amp fuse having a purpose is to blow when the slide is out of adjustment, as any motor under a load will draw more amps. And if that's the only reason, we should be told that.

I also just finished reading a post on another RV thread and the person was having trouble with blowing this fuse when the slide was fully retracted, or when it sealed up tight in the closed position (same thing happening to me), which is when the motor works the hardest. He replaced it with a bigger fuse, problem solved.

Now, it's on us if we ignore a bumpy slide. Me, I'll adjust mine if it gets bad. It's not hard to do.
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