5th wheel towing question

[RedBull]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I will start out with this!
Danny, the differences between the OP's 2500 and your 3500 SRW are minor, both gas 6.4 engines, both have the same transmission, you do have 4.10's to the OP's 3.73. The biggest difference is coil vs leaf springs in the rear and the stated GVWR. Danny you live in West Texas the OP is in Indiana, fewer hills, 3,500 rpm is nothing for modern gas engines, your red line is likely 4,500 to 5,500 rpm.
I am not encouraging the OP to go over weight, but to look seriously to use all of his truck.
The OP isn't looking to tow a 14,000# 5er they are looking at 11,500#, I am guessing that max tow rating of the 6.4 with 3.73's is 12,000 to 13,000#, yes the 6.4 will work a bit in hills, but should get the job done.

The big question is WEIGHTS, yep likely to be close, based on the information so far the op has about 2,500# for pin based on current calculations.
My truck can tow max 14,528.92, payload 3029.92. lb. Here is VIN data for my truck. My door payload sticker says 3029 lb. I know that in this case is all about the payload. I'm already getting Andersen regardless of what we buy. I've searched this hitch a lot yesterday and I'm sold.
As to the kids and their stuff, carry just the minimum of extra, and carry as much of it in the 5er as the truck only carries about 50% to 60% of that actual weight.

Danny I am in no way encouraging the OP to go over his max weights, just to use as much as needed up to the limits.

To safety, the OP's truck has the same brakes as yours, tires, they may be the same, they may lower capacity, but if the truck is within GVWR and Axle rating not an issue.

The OP's truck is rated to 100% of his numbers, likely a bit slow off the line, slow in the hills and reving to do it, but it will do it if it comes in within numbers.

As I have stated in every post, the OP needs to get to a scale, and get the real current numbers for his truck. Maybe he doesn't have 2,500# available for pin, maybe he does.

If his available payload is too small, then either smaller/lighter 5er or TT. If he has enough payload, but power is an issue, about $2,500 to $3,000 will put a set of 4.10's in the OP's current truck.

To encourage a person to go from a 5er that puts his truck near Max payload, to instead pull a long TT that might fit his numbers better, and is harder to get setup to prevent sway in my opinion is worst that being at or near Max on a 2500.

My truck as searched by VIN, door sticker duplicates the payload.

[RedBull]

Originally Posted by RedBull

My truck as searched by VIN, door sticker duplicates the payload.

Here is some more info about my truck.

[Gegrad]

Originally Posted by RedBull

My truck as searched by VIN, door sticker duplicates the payload.

Yep, no arguments there. I am with Russ; I would encourage you to load the truck up the way you would go camping and hit the scales and see how much real world payload you have left. That fiver has a large 2208 lb carrying capacity. To automatically assume you will load it that full is as silly as other posters in other threads who assume they won't carry anything at all. I carry between 700-750 lbs of stuff in my trailer (I have weighed it). See what the numbers tell you. If you carry 800 lbs of stuff then you shouldn't be anywhere close to your payload numbers. If you do carry all 2200 lbs then you will. It really is simpler than people try to make it to be. Go weigh yourself and determine. I am still of the opinion you can make all the numbers work. That scale ticket will give you a strong argument if it will/will not work.

[MarkEHansen]

Don't forget that the actual weight of the trailer doesn't account for the possibility that you may at some point have to tow with the waste tanks full (or at least not empty). This additional weight will not show on the CAT scales.

Even if you think you will never tow with non-empty waste tanks, it can still happen due to unexpected circumstances. Better to be prepared for it.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by RedBull

My truck as searched by VIN, door sticker duplicates the payload.

You got to love the .92# in the payload and towing capacity!

The reason I encourage to keep thinking of the 5er, is that a 5er is 100% more stable towing experience than a TT, even very close to Max numbers.

All i can say is get to the scale and see just how much of that 3,028.92# you have to carry a 5er. the 14,528.92# towing capacity, say you will have enough grunt to pull it.

[RedBull]

Originally Posted by Gegrad

Yep, no arguments there. I am with Russ; I would encourage you to load the truck up the way you would go camping and hit the scales and see how much real world payload you have left. That fiver has a large 2208 lb carrying capacity. To automatically assume you will load it that full is as silly as other posters in other threads who assume they won't carry anything at all. I carry between 700-750 lbs of stuff in my trailer (I have weighed it). See what the numbers tell you. If you carry 800 lbs of stuff then you shouldn't be anywhere close to your payload numbers. If you do carry all 2200 lbs then you will. It really is simpler than people try to make it to be. Go weigh yourself and determine. I am still of the opinion you can make all the numbers work. That scale ticket will give you a strong argument if it will/will not work.

Well I can tell you right now, All 4 of us is 470lb. 2 booster seats 9 pounds each, 2cell phones, 2 tablets, small cooler, few bags of snacks, charging cables etc...jack knife, bed cover(32 lb.) fuel. I never carry junk in my vehicles LOL, and I always make sure SHE doesn't either

[Gegrad]

Originally Posted by RedBull

Well I can tell you right now, All 4 of us is 470lb. 2 booster seats 9 pounds each, 2cell phones, 2 tablets, small cooler, few bags of snacks, charging cables etc...jack knife, bed cover(32 lb.) fuel. I never carry junk in my vehicles LOL, and I always make sure SHE doesn't either

LOL. I encourage you because I have almost the exact same truck as you and I would be comfortable looking into the trailer more (i.e. weighing myself to see how much room I had left). And I note I got my truck because I was right at my limits with my old half ton, so I am not one of the "you can tow anything" people.

[Laredo Tugger]

Originally Posted by RedBull

Well I can tell you right now, All 4 of us is 470lb. 2 booster seats 9 pounds each, 2cell phones, 2 tablets, small cooler, few bags of snacks, charging cables etc...jack knife, bed cover(32 lb.) fuel. I never carry junk in my vehicles LOL, and I always make sure SHE doesn't either

Watch out Red Bull. Those are fighting words if SHE finds out you are trying to steal the pants she wears in the family.
My trailers CCC is 1770 lbs., actual scale weight is around 1200 (of cargo) and I can not think of what else (heavy) I would add. So yes, if you do not load the max allowed on your trailer you should scale out within safe limits.
Sorry to laugh but I have a vision of you driving away from home as the kids are looking out of the truck window at a pile of teddy bears, crayons and Barbie's on the curb that did not "make weight". Hopefully you won't cut it that close.
Good luck
RMc

[RedBull]

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

Watch out Red Bull. Those are fighting words if SHE finds out you are trying to steal the pants she wears in the family.
My trailers CCC is 1770 lbs., actual scale weight is around 1200 (of cargo) and I can not think of what else (heavy) I would add. So yes, if you do not load the max allowed on your trailer you should scale out within safe limits.
Sorry to laugh but I have a vision of you driving away from home as the kids are looking out of the truck window at a pile of teddy bears, crayons and Barbie's on the curb that did not "make weight". Hopefully you won't cut it that close.
Good luck
RMc

LOL, I would love to see that picture too, very soon hopefully!! Teddys and stuff will occupy the bunk room LOL...

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by RedBull

Well I can tell you right now, All 4 of us is 470lb. 2 booster seats 9 pounds each, 2cell phones, 2 tablets, small cooler, few bags of snacks, charging cables etc...jack knife, bed cover(32 lb.) fuel. I never carry junk in my vehicles LOL, and I always make sure SHE doesn't either

And how do you keep those two kids in the booster seats at that set weight?

[sourdough]

People will load how they want and tow with what they want but I will say this. My last 3/4 truck had more payload than the OPs truck. I would not buy a trailer that had an 11,500gvw to put on it...at all (safety) - I bought a 1 ton. I carry approx. 1300lbs. of "stuff" in the trailer and could add more seems like on every trip; a new cooking gadget, a doo dad that DW likes, a new coat when I'm caught without one and on and on. Then I carry the mandatory tools, compressors etc. in the bed of my truck. The OP's prospective trailer has a carrying capacity of less than 2k lbs. As you can see above 2k wouldn't be hard to hit and I don't even have kids.....nor was it weighed with anything in the tanks.

Maybe a different analogy;

Have you ever been to the Royal Gorge in CO? I have, many times. About 1000' drop into that tiny ribbon "down there" - the Arkansas River. Have you ever watched what I consider "insane" people jump off the side of that bridge on a bungy cord? I have. Pure insanity IMO - dive off the side and drop until they become a tiny dot "down there" above the river then bounce back up - no way for me....but for them they got a rush out of it and I think/thought they were crazy. Now;

Suppose you are standing there on the bridge and your young son is just busting at the seams wanting to do that. A fellow comes up and encourages him with all kinds of tales of the fun and excitement he will experience. He asks how much the boy weighs and it's 100lbs. The guy says "no problem" and pulls out a little cord advising it has a weight capacity of 100lbs. and it should work OK. What? SHOULD work OK?? Now, are you going to strap your boy with that tiny cord and send him into the abyss?? Hoping everything is going to be OK? Knowing you did everything in your power to keep your son from harm but knowing better? If he comes back unscathed great; if not, which is a very real possibility, the guilt would be unbearable. Think about it. That is what any of us do when we max out our weights and then get on the highways with our loved ones.

[RedBull]

Ok, we narrowed down to slightly lighter units than the Cougar 32BHS. Hopefully we can pick something from that list that we can safely tow...
Telluride 296BHS
K-Z Sportsmen 302BHK
Chaparral Lite 274BH
Shasta Phoenix 274BH
Cougar Half-Ton 29MBS maybe?
Arctic Wolf 287BH maybe?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by RedBull

Ok, we narrowed down to slightly lighter units than the Cougar 32BHS. Hopefully we can pick something from that list that we can safely tow...
Telluride 296BHS
K-Z Sportsmen 302BHK
Chaparral Lite 274BH
Shasta Phoenix 274BH
Cougar Half-Ton 29MBS maybe?
Arctic Wolf 287BH maybe?

Once again load up the family fill up the gas tank, every thing in the truck you would normally have and head to the scales, and ger your REAL WEIGHTS. Get the two separate axle weights their total is total weight of truck ready for hitch and trailer. then subtract from 10,000# and that is what you have for available payload.

[wiredgeorge]

Kind of strange that when I walk through any RV campground, there are MANY 5th wheels 5-10' longer than my 28' Cougar and the number of 3/4 tons in front of those bigger campers. We need to make up flyers and direct all those folks to this forum to set them straight!

[MarkEHansen]

When using the CAT scales to determine actual weight, don't forget to account for the possibility of towing with non-empty waste tanks.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Kind of strange that when I walk through any RV campground, there are MANY 5th wheels 5-10' longer than my 28' Cougar and the number of 3/4 tons in front of those bigger campers. We need to make up flyers and direct all those folks to this forum to set them straight!

George, I'm shocked! You consistently chide the WP when we inform a new member that they may be towing over their truck's capacity. Now you want us to tell them BEFORE they log in for the first time?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Kind of strange that when I walk through any RV campground, there are MANY 5th wheels 5-10' longer than my 28' Cougar and the number of 3/4 tons in front of those bigger campers. We need to make up flyers and direct all those folks to this forum to set them straight!

Well don't pass up the ones using a 350/3500 SRW with a GVWR of 11,500# towing 16,000# 5ers. When Ram upgraded their 3500's in 2013, the DRW went from 12,300# to 14,000# and the 3500 SRW went from 11,500# to 12,300#. That put the Ram with at least an 800# GVWR advantage over Ford and GM, this advantage lasted until 2020 and 2021. That equates to an about 800# advantage in payload also, so about 4,200# for Ram would be about 3,400# for Ford and GM.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well don't pass up the ones using a 350/3500 SRW with a GVWR of 11,500# towing 16,000# 5ers. When Ram upgraded their 3500's in 2013, the DRW went from 12,300# to 14,000# and the 3500 SRW went from 11,500# to 12,300#. That put the Ram with at least an 800# GVWR advantage over Ford and GM, this advantage lasted until 2020 and 2021. That equates to an about 800# advantage in payload also, so about 4,200# for Ram would be about 3,400# for Ford and GM.

Say what you will about Ford... if they want the largest payload they will just write it into their sales brochures and TV ads. Maybe the payload sticker won't reflect their ad claims but they will be "BEST IN CLASS"! I don't really care much if folks tow overweight except if they are totally ignorant of the fact that they are unsafely overweight. I had a 2013 strippo F150 that I had a Lance camper on the back that by itself DRY was 400 lbs higher than my payload and I didn't have a clue except the cheap OEM tires were kind of bulging. I did put some truck tires on and that helped or at least made me feel I wasn't going to crush the rims.

[marine9007]

I loaded up my 5th wheel last weekend and put the hitch scale on and the max weight was 1900lbs. Adding 100# for the hitch + 30# for additional driver weight over 150# (per GM) and 100# for tools, the total was 2100# - under the 2700# max. It towed like there was nothing attached and braking was quite effortless (with the Exhaust brake on).

I feel confident and safe towing with my 2500 Silverado....

[notanlines]

Patrick, your Montana HC pin weight was 2265 when it left the factory....I'm sure it towed nicely, but put your trust in a CAT scale. And I'm sure your salesman claimed you're driving a beast and will tow anything on the lot. Again, CAT scale. The proof of the pudding and all that.