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Old 04-22-2021, 04:29 AM   #1
rczapla
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Factory Roof damage discovered by dealer NOT COVERED BY WARRANTY

I purchased a new 2020 Outback in Aug of 2019. We used the trailer a few times late 2019 and had major build issues with leaky slide windows and upgrade dining table pulling away from the wall. All this was fixed by the dealer. Last year we used the trailer twice. I cover the trailer for the winter. This year I took the trailer in early for routine roof maintenance, bearing pack, etc. The dealer informed me there was a small hole in the middle of the roof about 10 foot from the end of the trailer and said it was poorly patched. They discovered this poorly patched hole when they were cleaning the roof for maintenance. The dealer told me I would need a new roof. I had not patched the roof ever nor resealed it. I had only been on the roof to move the cover around for winter storage. I don't park under trees and we have never camped anywhere where a tree would have poked a hole in the middle of the roof. The damage had to come from the factory and had been patched enough to get the trailer out to the dealership, This damage SHOULD BE COVERED UNDER KEYSTONE's 3 YEAR WARRANTY. Keystone denied the warranty claim claiming they could not tell how the damage occurred. A new roof will cost me $7000 on a trailer that was purchased new and used lightly for 1&1/2 seasons. If I had damaged this trailer I would own up to it and fix it but I know I did not damage the roof and patch a whole. The dealer said the hole looked like a tree branch or dropped tool would have made this type of hole. I think I bought a $40K lemon from Keystone. This is my 2nd new Keystone. My 1st trailer (2014 Springdale 226LR) was great with no issues, That is why I upgraded and purchased the one (OUTBACK 335CG). Keystone's build quality and poor warranty coverage on my latest trailer is turning me away from ever purchasing another Keystone product again. Keystone you should stand behind your warranty. You want a customer like me as I am a return customer and have spent over $60K on your products so far. It's up to you whether you keep me as a customer or not. FIX THIS ROOF UNDER WARRNTY as you should.
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:37 AM   #2
Javi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rczapla View Post
I purchased a new 2020 Outback in Aug of 2019. We used the trailer a few times late 2019 and had major build issues with leaky slide windows and upgrade dining table pulling away from the wall. All this was fixed by the dealer. Last year we used the trailer twice. I cover the trailer for the winter. This year I took the trailer in early for routine roof maintenance, bearing pack, etc. The dealer informed me there was a small hole in the middle of the roof about 10 foot from the end of the trailer and said it was poorly patched. They discovered this poorly patched hole when they were cleaning the roof for maintenance. The dealer told me I would need a new roof. I had not patched the roof ever nor resealed it. I had only been on the roof to move the cover around for winter storage. I don't park under trees and we have never camped anywhere where a tree would have poked a hole in the middle of the roof. The damage had to come from the factory and had been patched enough to get the trailer out to the dealership, This damage SHOULD BE COVERED UNDER KEYSTONE's 3 YEAR WARRANTY. Keystone denied the warranty claim claiming they could not tell how the damage occurred. A new roof will cost me $7000 on a trailer that was purchased new and used lightly for 1&1/2 seasons. If I had damaged this trailer I would own up to it and fix it but I know I did not damage the roof and patch a whole. The dealer said the hole looked like a tree branch or dropped tool would have made this type of hole. I think I bought a $40K lemon from Keystone. This is my 2nd new Keystone. My 1st trailer (2014 Springdale 226LR) was great with no issues, That is why I upgraded and purchased the one (OUTBACK 335CG). Keystone's build quality and poor warranty coverage on my latest trailer is turning me away from ever purchasing another Keystone product again. Keystone you should stand behind your warranty. You want a customer like me as I am a return customer and have spent over $60K on your products so far. It's up to you whether you keep me as a customer or not. FIX THIS ROOF UNDER WARRNTY as you should.
Just a note: This site is not associated in any way with Keystone RV Company...

As to the hole... I see two ways this is going to go...

First... hope your dealer has some pull with Keystone and is motivated enough to fight for you...

OR....

Second.... Turn it into your insurance and let them fight it out with Keystone..


but either way... welcome to the forum
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:47 AM   #3
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Unfortunately you have a steep uphill battle ahead. You bought in 2019, and now we are in 2021. You or your RV service department should have been on the roof for “routine maintenance” at least a couple of times, even if it was just for an inspection which would have revealed a poor patch job.

Personally I have yet to see ANY unit from ANY factory arrive at a dealership with a roof patch. I wish you all the best, but I don’t realistically expect Keystone will replace your roof membrane under warranty, but stranger things have happened.
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Old 04-22-2021, 05:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rczapla View Post
I purchased a new 2020 Outback in Aug of 2019. We used the trailer a few times late 2019 and had major build issues with leaky slide windows and upgrade dining table pulling away from the wall. All this was fixed by the dealer. Last year we used the trailer twice. I cover the trailer for the winter. This year I took the trailer in early for routine roof maintenance, bearing pack, etc. The dealer informed me there was a small hole in the middle of the roof about 10 foot from the end of the trailer and said it was poorly patched. They discovered this poorly patched hole when they were cleaning the roof for maintenance. The dealer told me I would need a new roof. I had not patched the roof ever nor resealed it. I had only been on the roof to move the cover around for winter storage. I don't park under trees and we have never camped anywhere where a tree would have poked a hole in the middle of the roof. The damage had to come from the factory and had been patched enough to get the trailer out to the dealership, This damage SHOULD BE COVERED UNDER KEYSTONE's 3 YEAR WARRANTY. Keystone denied the warranty claim claiming they could not tell how the damage occurred. A new roof will cost me $7000 on a trailer that was purchased new and used lightly for 1&1/2 seasons. If I had damaged this trailer I would own up to it and fix it but I know I did not damage the roof and patch a whole. The dealer said the hole looked like a tree branch or dropped tool would have made this type of hole. I think I bought a $40K lemon from Keystone. This is my 2nd new Keystone. My 1st trailer (2014 Springdale 226LR) was great with no issues, That is why I upgraded and purchased the one (OUTBACK 335CG). Keystone's build quality and poor warranty coverage on my latest trailer is turning me away from ever purchasing another Keystone product again. Keystone you should stand behind your warranty. You want a customer like me as I am a return customer and have spent over $60K on your products so far. It's up to you whether you keep me as a customer or not. FIX THIS ROOF UNDER WARRNTY as you should.
Possibly your fight is with your dealer although I can’t imagine you could prove it now.
Maybe someone doing maintenance work on the roof accidentally damaged it and did their best to repair it without anyone noticing it.
Not a bad idea to do a mini pdi every time you have work done at the dealer including checking out the roof after they seal it annually
Not saying this is what happened but is a possibility.
And don’t think you have to be parked under branches,where I live seagulls drop shellfish from a a couple stories up onto my pier to break open the shells
Every now and then I find one on my boats
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Old 04-22-2021, 10:49 AM   #5
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I'm not going to "take a side" in this "hard trip to the top of the mountain" journey....

That said, here's the situation as it appears to me:

1. The owner bought a trailer in 2019 with a 1 year warranty.
2. The warranty expired in 2020.
3. The Owner's manual defines "explicitly" the difference between DAMAGE and DEFECT. A "hole in the roof" is not a DEFECT. Damage is not covered under warranty unless it is directly caused by a defect. So, the hole is not "covered under warranty".
4. The Owner's Manual further gives the following guidance in the maintenance section: "Once the RV leaves our manufacturing facilities, we can no longer maintain the sealants, this becomes your responsibility. Take this seriously because it can help prevent a very frustrating situation that can be expensive to remedy (damage from water leaks). Inspect the roof at least every 90 days, paying close attention to all seams and/or joints and attachments where sealant is used. Look for cracks, shrinkage and/or gaps/voids in the sealants. These must be carefully cleaned and resealed. "

Now, whether the dealership, the owner, the factory or an outside entity caused the hole and patched it is really not the issue.

The issue, as I see it (my opinion) At this point, 2+ years after purchase and 1+ years after the warranty has expired, there is no way to "prove who damaged the roof" and if it was a "defect" then it was the owner's responsibility to report the damage which should have been discovered during the required 90 day roof inspection/resealing maintenance.

I believe that discovering the damage after 2 years (8 of the 90 day inspection periods) is not going to bode well for the owner.... Trying to "place blame on who did/did not discover the patch during this 2 year period is going to be futile and I don't suspect Keystone would even address trying to place blame this far out from the trailer purchase.

To me, it's sort of like saying, I bought a loaf of bread 2 weeks ago, it expired last week and today, I noticed mold on the last slice. I want a replacement loaf....

Again, I'm not "taking sides" as I don't have all the information and it wouldn't matter anyway....

But: It's going to be an extremely steep uphill battle.

Now, as a recommendation: I wouldn't consider replacing the entire roof. I'd suspect the dealership that recommended that is trying to make up for lost profits....

What I would do is recommend that this is "precisely the purpose for which Eternabond tape was formulated".... Carefully remove all the old patch and buy a Eternabond patch kit. Cut the new patch to overlap ALL the old surface around the hole by at least 2" in all directions. On a warm, sunny day, apply the Eternabond patch, use a roller to help seal the surface completely. Allow it to cure for 24 hours, then clean the edges of the new patch with alcohol, apply DICOR (or Alpha Systems LO VOC) self leveling sealant to all the edges of the patch. Allow that to cure and include inspecting the patch in all your future 90 day roof inspections......

ADDED: As an afterthought, if, when you remove the old patch, if you discover any damage or water related issues on the roof decking under the patch, you might consider contacting your insurance company. It's likely your insurance deductible is greater than the cost of the patch repair, so I wouldn't notify the insurance if the patch will work. On the other hand, if there's extensive wood damage or wood rot under the hole, then insurance may be your only option other than "self pay".
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:37 PM   #6
rczapla
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I appreciate the information you have provided but the warranty is 3 years on the roof and structure for ANYTHING due to a factory build issue. The dealer found the poor patch when they were power washing the roof this season. This is the first time the roof was power washed. I have been up on the roof and know for a fact I have never patched or seen anything suspicious indicating there was a hole or repair made. My guess is the power washing revealed the issue.
Below is Keystone's 3 Year warranty statement.

3-YEAR
Limited Structural Warranty Summary
Keystone RV warranties the structure of your RV for a period of three (3) years from the date of purchase by the original owner and it is also transferable during the warranty period. The limited structural warranty covers defects in materials and workmanship attributable to Keystone RV's manufacturing and assembly. This includes the main steel frame, outriggers and crossmembers; skeletal framing (wall studs, floor joists, rafters); exterior sidewalls, front and rear walls; roof and roof material; floors; slide-out boxes and related structural components; and, paint and windshield installation issues with fiberglass front caps. The warranty doesn't cover damage due to improper operation or maintenance.
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:52 PM   #7
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Unless you can prove that hole came from the factory, and you haven't seen it in 2 years.....you have a mighty steep hill to climb. You are supposed to check the roof every 90 days so you should have seen it. If you haven't it either means it wasn't there when you got it (non warranty) or you didn't inspect it within the specified warranty timeframe (failure to maintain the roof - non warranty).

As far as the power washing "revealing" a patch on your roof and you've been up there and it's never been there before? Unless you had an inch of built up something on the roof a roof patch is obvious....even under a really dirty roof. Not doubting what you say; maybe you just didn't see it?
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:55 PM   #8
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Your task at hand is to prove it came from the factory that way, or the selling dealer did a patch. I have been working on RVs for over 10 years now and I was at 4 different dealerships covering over 20 different brands including Keystone, and I will state again:

I have NEVER seen a new unit come in to a dealership with a patch. It would be obvious without any washing.
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:59 PM   #9
rczapla
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I love your patch suggestion. If I thought about it much, you almost sound like a professional Keystone trailer expert.
I live in MI so the trailer is winterized, covered and stored from Nov-Apr. This trailer 2020 Outback 335CG built in 2019 has about 9 months of use and 2 months of the trailer was in the shop for factory build warranty work for "other" workmanship issues. This $40K trailer has been a lemon. This issue after issue of me owning this particular trailer has been frustrating to say the least. I was hoping Keystone was going to do good by me. I've given them all my RV trailer business to date.
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Old 04-22-2021, 05:07 PM   #10
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The process:
New unit is picked up at the factory by an independent transportation company. They sign documents that there is no damage to the unit. Once it gets to the dealership, an employee must sign a D.A.F. (Dealer acceptance form) with specific categories checked/signed off. The roof, frame, awning and slides are on this form and it must be submitted to the factory within 3 days for any claims.

When sold, the dealership is SUPPOSED to perform a complete PDI, checking all systems, components including the roof membrane. Any discrepancy found will be submitted to the factory for warranty repair/authorization.

I’m only stating what is supposed to happen. Did it happen that way? Do you think the factory or dealership will admit to a “patch”?
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Old 04-22-2021, 05:11 PM   #11
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See my thread. It's all about your dealership and their warranty department!



Good luck!




https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...t=33778&page=4
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Old 04-22-2021, 05:32 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by rczapla View Post
I appreciate the information you have provided but the warranty is 3 years on the roof and structure for ANYTHING due to a factory build issue. The dealer found the poor patch when they were power washing the roof this season. This is the first time the roof was power washed. I have been up on the roof and know for a fact I have never patched or seen anything suspicious indicating there was a hole or repair made. My guess is the power washing revealed the issue.
Below is Keystone's 3 Year warranty statement.

3-YEAR
Limited Structural Warranty Summary
Keystone RV warranties the structure of your RV for a period of three (3) years from the date of purchase by the original owner and it is also transferable during the warranty period. The limited structural warranty covers defects in materials and workmanship attributable to Keystone RV's manufacturing and assembly. This includes the main steel frame, outriggers and crossmembers; skeletal framing (wall studs, floor joists, rafters); exterior sidewalls, front and rear walls; roof and roof material; floors; slide-out boxes and related structural components; and, paint and windshield installation issues with fiberglass front caps. The warranty doesn't cover damage due to improper operation or maintenance.

I'm not "arguing with you" rather "pointing out what Keystone is likely to tell you"....

First, where did you get that "warranty statement" ??? It's not the same as the one in the 4/1/2018 printing of the owner's manual...

The one is the owner's manual as far as I know, applies to trailers, not a version found on the internet, even at the Keystone website or in a brochure, all of which carry the disclaimer, "Subject to change without notice"... So, what does your Owner's Manual say ??? Read it carefully, it's not the same as your post.

Here's what's in the Owner's Manual: “Structural” means the RV’s (i) main steel frame and steel support members (outriggers and cross members) (ii)
exterior sidewalls, laminated or non-laminated, including fiberglass, aluminum siding and wall studs (iii) floors, laminated or non-laminated, including decking and floor joists (iv) roofs, laminated or non-laminated, including decking, roof rafters and roof material installation (v) fiberglass cap(s) including paint application, and windshield installation, if applicable
(this structural warranty item does not cover damages to the cap(s) such as impact, rock chips, dents, scratches or failure to maintain all as addressed in the disclaimers below and elsewhere in this Owner’s Manual), and (vi) slide out box exterior sidewalls/end walls/roofs/floors, skeletal framing, decking and roof material installation.

Next, look in the Owner's Manual at what is NOT covered: Equipment, products, components, appliances, or accessories not manufactured by Keystone.

The Structural 3 year warranty applies to the roof structure, laminated or not, decking (wood under the roof material) rafters and "ROOF MATERIAL INSTALLATION (but not the material, which is excluded in "not covered")

Trying to navigate the Keystone warranty is harder than trying to navigate driving on the wrong side of the road in Bangkok... or New Deli or Karachi,,, all places where if you don't speak the language, the signs don't make sense... Reading the Keystone warranty "verbatum without taking into account the addendums" is like wondering if that sign that makes no sense means anything.....

Essentially, The structural warranty only includes the installation of the membrane but not the membrane itself (which has a 12 year warranty from Alpha Systems so no warranty from Keystone)... The ONLY reason the installation of the membrane is covered is because Keystone installed it....

As for not noticing the patch for the past 2_ years, that's going to be the biggest hurdle for you to prove it was there but you never saw it.... If you'd have seen it, why didn't you notify the dealer? and if you didn't see it, was it there before or is this an attempt to game the system ??? I'M NOT ACCUSING YOU OF ANYTHING, RATHER SUGGESTING WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PROVE TO KEYSTONE..... It's going to be, in my opinion, impossible at this time, for you to "prove" that the patch was there but you never reported it. Keystone's first question will be, "Why didn't you report it then and why is it now important enough to report?"

I'm not on Keystone's side nor on your side of this issue... But you're going to spend far more time trying to push an issue that you simply won't win than it's going to be worth...

As a second consideration, Keystone has a current and ongoing recall to repair the roof membrane on slides that were damaged by oil leaking from the slide motor. That oil damaged a 1" spot on the membrane. Initially, Keystone replaced a number of slide roofs (the entire slide roof). Then, about 2 years ago, they changed that decision. Now, they only "patch the damaged area" and then, depending on dealer assessment, they also, on SOME (not all) will apply a strip of Eternabond tape along the roof, from edge to edge over the patched area. They stopped replacing the entire roof membrane a couple of years ago... To expect them to replace your roof, when that's no longer the corporate policy, well, they aren't doing it for anybody else, even when it was "their responsibility"... and trust me, a lot of people have raised a lot of hell about that one and Keystone just doesn't budge any more.... They did, but no longer...

Good Luck with this, and I encourage you to read the warranty carefully and include the part about "this warranty does not include".... Most of what you want covered is not included in the structural part of the warranty (the membrane) and the part that you want replaced is "excluded in the does not cover" part of the warranty....

Again, good luck.... I hope you have stock in Rolaids, you're going to have ulcers before this is over.....
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Old 04-23-2021, 05:12 AM   #13
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I tore the roof on my 18 year old camper; probably a tree limb. Called my insurance company and now have a LIFETIME WARRANTY RV Armor roof (warranty transferable to the next owner if the trailer sells). I paid the deductible. Work was performed on my property and insurance company was easy to work with.
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