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Old 04-11-2021, 03:22 PM   #1
malcod
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GVWR vs GAWR

Can anyone explain to me why vehicle's GAWR is considerably higher than GVWR. In other words I can load my tow vehicle to the limit of GAWR and be well above my GVWR and deemed unsafe, illegal in case of accident.
As an example, my 2009 sierra diesel GVWR is 9200, actual is 7460(pass+fuel+hitch) and my GAWR is 6084, actual 3190. Dry pin of trailer is 1545 and GVWR is 11000. I will be well within GAWR but will be over GVWR.
Yes I listened to the RV salesman and now looking for new 1 ton truck!
Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge!
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Old 04-11-2021, 04:24 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by malcod View Post
Can anyone explain to me why vehicle's GAWR is considerably higher than GVWR. In other words I can load my tow vehicle to the limit of GAWR and be well above my GVWR and deemed unsafe, illegal in case of accident.
As an example, my 2009 sierra diesel GVWR is 9200, actual is 7460(pass+fuel+hitch) and my GAWR is 6084, actual 3190. Dry pin of trailer is 1545 and GVWR is 11000. I will be well within GAWR but will be over GVWR.
Yes I listened to the RV salesman and now looking for new 1 ton truck!
Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge!
From TFLtruck.com:

It's because there could be cases when an axle might be overloaded, but the total weight of a loaded truck is still less than the GVWR. For example, a diesel HD truck with a snow plow on the front may approach the front GAWR, but still be nowhere near the GVWR. Same thing with a truck with a bed full of rock.

So it basically allows for load variances. You still can't load up both to max or you will bust GVWR.
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Old 04-11-2021, 04:28 PM   #3
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As I understand it, the gross axle weight is based on "dead weight" or load. The GVWR takes into account several factors including how much weight can be stopped by the braking system or supported by the frame and suspension etc.
On our 2500 Ram, the axels are the same as in the 3500. The difference being the 3500 has a beefier rear leaf spring package.
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Old 04-11-2021, 04:50 PM   #4
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Well something to think about when it comes GVWR and GAWR. In 2013 Ram upped the GVWR on their 3500’s the SRW went from 11,500# to 12,300 long bed. The 3500 DRW went from 12,300# to 14,000#.
So now Ram SRW 3500 had a GVWR of 12,300# an F350 had a GVWR of 11,500# an advantage of 800# GVWR, and nearly that in payload to Ram. Ford didn’t increase the F350 SRW GVWR to 12,400# until 2020 when they improved their frame.
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Old 04-11-2021, 05:05 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by malcod View Post
...
Yes I listened to the RV salesman and now looking for new 1 ton truck!...
I feel your pain. I bought a new Silverado 1/2 ton gasser with a towing differential only to discover I was too far over GVWR and GAWR. Sold that and bought a new GMC 3500hd Duramax. OMG. What a difference. It'll hurt to do, but I think you'll feel better if you upgrade your tow vehicle.
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Old 04-11-2021, 05:43 PM   #6
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Very simply put; the GVWR is the ultimate limiter. Excess GAWR ratings are to insure the axles and tires have load capacity reserves.
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Old 04-11-2021, 06:20 PM   #7
malcod
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[QUOTE=markcee;443468]From TFLtruck.com:

It's because there could be cases when an axle might be overloaded, but the total weight of a loaded truck is still less than the GVWR. For example, a diesel HD truck with a snow plow on the front may approach the front GAWR, but still be nowhere near the GVWR. Same thing with a truck with a bed full of rock.

So it basically allows for load variances. You still can't load up both to max or you will bust GVWR.[/QUOTE

I don't know except in Province of Saskatchewan, the Gov't oversees the highways and the weigh scale;, the GVWR (ie in the case of an accident will investigate whether a vehicle was over weight and did that cause an accident; issue the licence and insure the vehicle.

In short GVWR means the max weight the vehicle can be to operate satisfactorly. I doubt you can weigh up the front axle and exceed GVWR, but you certainly can load up the rear axle and exceed the GVWR. I know the rear GAWR is the max the axle can manage, but why have it stated so that yhe one contradictes the other? "Can't suck and blow at the same time!"
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Old 04-11-2021, 07:07 PM   #8
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Seems simple to me; GVWR is IT as stated and pointed out for max vehicle weight. GAWRs are just little red flags to let those that refuse to follow the other weight limiters that you are now in deep kimchi and floating your tail, and your safety, in the wind.
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Old 04-12-2021, 02:46 AM   #9
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malcod, why do they call an F150 or a 1500 a "1/2 ton truck" nwhen they can typically carry more than 1,000 lbs? Bottom line .... ignore all the noise. Payload of the truck and GVWRof the trailer are the numbers of concern. Calculate pin weight using 15% for TT or 23% for a fiver and if it's below the payload you should be good (providing you're not trying to take a cord of wood with you).
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:55 AM   #10
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[QUOTE=malcod;443492]
Quote:
Originally Posted by markcee View Post
From TFLtruck.com:

It's because there could be cases when an axle might be overloaded, but the total weight of a loaded truck is still less than the GVWR. For example, a diesel HD truck with a snow plow on the front may approach the front GAWR, but still be nowhere near the GVWR. Same thing with a truck with a bed full of rock.

So it basically allows for load variances. You still can't load up both to max or you will bust GVWR.[/QUOTE

I don't know except in Province of Saskatchewan, the Gov't oversees the highways and the weigh scale;, the GVWR (ie in the case of an accident will investigate whether a vehicle was over weight and did that cause an accident; issue the licence and insure the vehicle.

In short GVWR means the max weight the vehicle can be to operate satisfactorly. I doubt you can weigh up the front axle and exceed GVWR, but you certainly can load up the rear axle and exceed the GVWR. I know the rear GAWR is the max the axle can manage, but why have it stated so that yhe one contradictes the other? "Can't suck and blow at the same time!"
Imagine a DIESEL truck with a 10K GVWR, a 6800 RAWR and a 4600 FAWR. Actual weights on the axles are 3900 Front and 3500 Rear. Truck weighs 7400 pounds empty with a payload of 2600 pounds. This is a typical 3/4 ton truck....

Now, you have 700 pounds remaining on the front axle. YOU CAN'T INSTALL AN 800 POUND SNOW PLOW ON THAT TRUCK, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE 2600 POUNDS OF PAYLOAD..... The FAWR restricts the addition.

Now, the rear axle is carrying 3500 pounds with a rating of 6800 pounds. In "THEORY" you can add 3300 pounds of weight in the bed.... NOPE, the GVWR restricts the maximum available cargo to 2600 pounds at which the GVWR will restrict any further weight....

It's all about "load variability" to allow for owners to use their truck for different purposes. What "fits one owner's needs" is not necessarily acceptable to another owner....
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Old 04-12-2021, 01:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
malcod, why do they call an F150 or a 1500 a "1/2 ton truck" nwhen they can typically carry more than 1,000 lbs? Bottom line .... ignore all the noise. Payload of the truck and GVWRof the trailer are the numbers of concern. Calculate pin weight using 15% for TT or 23% for a fiver and if it's below the payload you should be good (providing you're not trying to take a cord of wood with you).
LOL, well back in the day, a half ton would be lucky to have a 1,000# payload. Heck if we went by payload our 2016 Tam DRW would be a Duce and a half! Lets see who understands that terminology.
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Old 04-12-2021, 02:03 PM   #12
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LOL, well back in the day, a half ton would be lucky to have a 1,000# payload. Heck if we went by payload our 2016 Tam DRW would be a Duce and a half! Lets see who understands that terminology.

^^LOL! Back in the day....had an early 80s model 1/2 ton Ford long bed. Wanted to pour some concrete and decided to mix it. Drove to the local cement place, ordered a yard of gravel and they directed me under the chute. Began opening the chute and the gravel came pouring out....and the bed of that "1/2 ton" immediately went to the bump stops and beyond. The guy up top shut it off with a huge grin, "might wanna come back and get the rest". Drove back to the house with the back almost on the ground and those lightweight tires bulged like they were going to pop. Didn't have enough gravel to get much over the wheel wells....just in the middle.
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Old 04-12-2021, 02:04 PM   #13
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Heck if we went by payload our 2016 Tam DRW would be a Duce and a half! Lets see who understands that terminology.
Understand, heck it's giving me flashbacks. I used to a recurring dream where, in the dream I woke up and I was back in the Army and I didn't know how it happened... Yikes!
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Old 04-12-2021, 04:45 PM   #14
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Back when I was young and dumb, I hauled a cord of firewood several times in the bed of my 1969 Ford F100 4x4, powered by the venerable 390 V-8 and 4-speed manual.

The last time I hauled a cord of firewood, as I rounded a corner, the left axle shaft departed the rear end. 1/2 ton Fords of that era did not have full floating axles. The bearing had eaten thru the backing plate. The weight on that axle sticking out of the axle tube was a lot, but it did not break. Axle shafts on the Ford 9-inch rear ends are tough. Nursed it home, having to stop and jack up the rear end and shove the axle back into the housing several times.

Repaired the rear axle with a new backing plate, and never hauled anything heavy in that truck again.

Experience is a wonderful teacher!
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Old 04-12-2021, 07:11 PM   #15
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Back when I was young and dumb, I hauled a cord of firewood several times in the bed of my 1969 Ford F100 4x4, powered by the venerable 390 V-8 and 4-speed manual.

The last time I hauled a cord of firewood, as I rounded a corner, the left axle shaft departed the rear end. 1/2 ton Fords of that era did not have full floating axles. The bearing had eaten thru the backing plate. The weight on that axle sticking out of the axle tube was a lot, but it did not break. Axle shafts on the Ford 9-inch rear ends are tough. Nursed it home, having to stop and jack up the rear end and shove the axle back into the housing several times.

Repaired the rear axle with a new backing plate, and never hauled anything heavy in that truck again.

Experience is a wonderful teacher!
Lol, reminds me of a couple summers I spent cutting firewood for a summer job. Had a ‘79 F150, standard cab, 8’ box. Had a set of stakeside rails on it. Used to cut, load and stack until the wood was level with the stakes (2’ over top of cab) then run the load back and go out again. 3 loads a day on a light day, 4 on a normal day, 5 when my buddies brother, who was the boss, rode us like rented mules. All green wood. Man, that old girl would squat lmao.
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