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Old 03-14-2021, 09:25 AM   #41
June131992!
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Originally Posted by Traindude View Post
Just wanted to get some opinions on getting a new truck. So far this what I am thinking. 1ton diesel srw with an 8 ft bed. With that being said any features that you all like or dislike. Not trying to start a debate on trucks Ford vs Chevy, or diesel vs gas. Just ideas on what out there, help hints that sorta thing
Thanx
Hey i saw this & want to throw you my experience... i have a 2020 GMC one ton Denali srw with the standard 7 foot box... i love it . we are hauling a 44’ Keystone Fuzion tri axle toy hauler & this this handles it without a hiccup. we have roughly 7000 miles towing since july with it and gave loved it... averaging 8-10 fully loaded at 17,000# plus... normal mileage with tonneau cover is 19 city & 23-25 highway no regrets
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Old 03-14-2021, 09:45 AM   #42
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Here is my cargo capacity on a decently decked out 2020 f350 LB 6.7 lariat. With the 8' bed you get a 48 gal. fuel tank and 1000 lbs of extra capacity. I shut the lane drift/assist warn offl, I don't like it. The adaptive steering is nice. The truck rides much better then my 2011 F250 SB 6.7. Also, for the cold climates the heated steering wheel is awesome!
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Old 03-14-2021, 09:58 AM   #43
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Here is my cargo capacity on a decently decked out 2020 f350 LB 6.7 lariat. With the 8' bed you get a 48 gal. fuel tank and 1000 lbs of extra capacity. I shut the lane drift/assist warn offl, I don't like it. The adaptive steering is nice. The truck rides much better then my 2011 F250 SB 6.7. Also, for the cold climates the heated steering wheel is awesome!
What amazes me about that is where are the Big 3 gaining additional payload? That’s over 1000# more payload than my ‘15, which is in my signature. I can see a couple hundred pounds from the aluminum body but what else? That tells me they realize they were seriously UNDER rating the slightly older trucks or are being optimistic to try and sell more trucks on the new ones. All three makers jumped payload a bunch around ‘20. I’d bet on the former statement rather than the latter. But just my opinion.

With that said, I always chuckle about the payload arguments on every forum I’m on. I pay attention to mine, but I’ve been on both sides of the payload wall. I have two friends that are senior engineers at FCA and spent many years engineering Ram trucks. They will tell you that the trucks are tested for abusive failure and tested to catastrophic failure. They will also tell you that vehicle registration requirements and lawyers drive payload limits. Not the trucks themselves. Argue all you want, I believe them. With that said, as I mentioned I try to stay under payload and drive safely, but to think going over payload a bit is instantly unsafe, unstable or will cause failure is laughable. There is a large safety margin built into that payload sticker. Fact.
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Old 03-14-2021, 10:51 AM   #44
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What amazes me about that is where are the Big 3 gaining additional payload? That’s over 1000# more payload than my ‘15, which is in my signature. I can see a couple hundred pounds from the aluminum body but what else? That tells me they realize they were seriously UNDER rating the slightly older trucks or are being optimistic to try and sell more trucks on the new ones. All three makers jumped payload a bunch around ‘20. I’d bet on the former statement rather than the latter. But just my opinion.

With that said, I always chuckle about the payload arguments on every forum I’m on. I pay attention to mine, but I’ve been on both sides of the payload wall. I have two friends that are senior engineers at FCA and spent many years engineering Ram trucks. They will tell you that the trucks are tested for abusive failure and tested to catastrophic failure. They will also tell you that vehicle registration requirements and lawyers drive payload limits. Not the trucks themselves. Argue all you want, I believe them. With that said, as I mentioned I try to stay under payload and drive safely, but to think going over payload a bit is instantly unsafe, unstable or will cause failure is laughable. There is a large safety margin built into that payload sticker. Fact.

While there are questions about payloads, and assumptions abound, the statement in red above is simply conjecture/opinion, not fact, unless you have a statement from the manufacturer somewhere............. Maybe they can then define "large".
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Old 03-14-2021, 12:25 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by jfk69 View Post
What amazes me about that is where are the Big 3 gaining additional payload? That’s over 1000# more payload than my ‘15, which is in my signature. I can see a couple hundred pounds from the aluminum body but what else?...

With that said, I always chuckle about the payload arguments on every forum I’m on. ... They will tell you that the trucks are tested for abusive failure and tested to catastrophic failure. They will also tell you that vehicle registration requirements and lawyers drive payload limits. Not the trucks themselves. Argue all you want, I believe them. With that said, as I mentioned I try to stay under payload and drive safely, but to think going over payload a bit is instantly unsafe, unstable or will cause failure is laughable. There is a large safety margin built into that payload sticker. Fact.

First, Your GVW is 11,400, the GVW on the truck you're addressing is 12,400. That's the extra 1000 pounds of payload. What they did to increase the GVW isn't reflected in the build data available. It may be nothing at all or it may include increased springs, axles, frame members, brakes, bearings, or it may include a different "yellow sticker"... We (consumers) haven't got access to those "engineering secrets"..

Second, it's not as much about "physical capability of a truck to withstand increased cargo load" as it is about "the judge, jury and insurance company"... Load your truck as heavy as you want, as long as nobody gets hurt and takes you to court, "you're GOLDEN".... On the other hand, slide on an icy road and hit a school bus with an overloaded truck and see if you make it through the legal system "intact"....

To me, I worked too long and too hard to "donate to any lawyer's retirement fund".... YMMV
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Old 03-14-2021, 12:40 PM   #46
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So the question is your current 5er doesn't require a diesel or one ton, a gas 3/4 ton will have enough payload for a 10,000# 5er.

That brings up the question, what are your future plans?

How big are you looking for the future, current one ton diesels will have a payload between 3,800# and about 4,200# that may sound like a lot. Well a 16,000# 5er with a 22% pin will have a pin weight of 3,500#! Well add passengers, hitch, and stuff carried in the truck and that leftover 700# of payload disappears quickly. If the future plans exceed 16,000# think about getting a DRW now.

As to options park sense or parking assist is nice, exhaust brake is standard on all new HD diesel pickups.
Puck system for 5er hitch is a must have.
Tow package with integrated brake controller.
Power Heated tow mirrors.
4X4 it is cheap insurance.
Comfort options of your choice.
I understand I could go with a 3/4 for my current set up. Right now I have an f350 srw . I like having the extra payload room. The reason I want to go 1 ton is because I don’t know what the future will bring. I thought my TT would be the last trailer I bought but now I got a 5er. Glad I already had the truck for it so. So now looking to update the truck . I want this to be the last truck I buy but who knows what will happen
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Old 03-14-2021, 01:07 PM   #47
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While there are questions about payloads, and assumptions abound, the statement in red above is simply conjecture/opinion, not fact, unless you have a statement from the manufacturer somewhere............. Maybe they can then define "large".
I have the word of two very qualified engineers that built them. I trust that. This idea that a truck with a 3500 pound payload will fail at 3501 is silly. That was my only point. I didn’t get on here and say “you’re good to X, Y or Z over the payload listed on your truck. That would be irresponsible and factually incorrect.
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Old 03-14-2021, 01:14 PM   #48
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First, Your GVW is 11,400, the GVW on the truck you're addressing is 12,400. That's the extra 1000 pounds of payload. What they did to increase the GVW isn't reflected in the build data available. It may be nothing at all or it may include increased springs, axles, frame members, brakes, bearings, or it may include a different "yellow sticker"... We (consumers) haven't got access to those "engineering secrets
Trivial, I know, but my truck GVWR is 11,500. The rest I mostly agree with. I also didn’t condone exceeding payload. My point, indirectly, was that of the several RV boards where I am a member, I haven’t seen one where folks are grilled quite so hard as here. Just an observation. Sometimes, people pull with what they have. We did that with our previous fiver. It got us back into rv’ing after a long hiatus, and we upgraded the truck when the timing was better for us.

I just disagree with some of the “absolute” responses and I’d be happy to kick back at a campfire with most anyone I talk to on all these boards and knock back a drink of your choice while we debate it. The fact is most posts anywhere on the internet have 0-some “fact” and a LOT of “opinion”.
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Old 03-14-2021, 02:04 PM   #49
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On the other hand, slide on an icy road and hit a school bus with an overloaded truck and see if you make it through the legal system "intact"....
As an aside, in your scenario above, loaded OR empty, I GUARANTEE you that you aren’t escaping the legal system “intact”. That scenario says to even an idiot lawyer that you were driving too fast for conditions (popular ticket in my state), and your insurance company and you are going to be footing a very hefty bill.
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Old 03-14-2021, 04:10 PM   #50
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I have the word of two very qualified engineers that built them. I trust that. This idea that a truck with a 3500 pound payload will fail at 3501 is silly. That was my only point. I didn’t get on here and say “you’re good to X, Y or Z over the payload listed on your truck. That would be irresponsible and factually incorrect.

I don't think anyone has ever said a truck will fail at 1 lb. over the listed payload. The stress on payload is for a few reasons; liability, the effort to point out that the number is there listed on the door and because it is a printed number, placed there by the manufacturer to give the buyer knowledge of what he can safely carry - no more, no less. If you, or anyone else, decides it's OK to go 50lbs. over or......2000lbs., 1%, 10%, 50% over where then is the safe point? There isn't one and now you have guided a person who has no idea, that just asked what he can safely carry, down a dangerous path - the wrong thing to do. As far as the engineers and their commentary, it's just that. It has no merit and only encourages folks to disregard the numbers they should be adhering to. IMO if the engineers actually knew they would tell you exactly what the "large" tolerance is because they should know. Lacking that it is pure conjecture and hearsay.


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Trivial, I know, but my truck GVWR is 11,500. The rest I mostly agree with. I also didn’t condone exceeding payload. My point, indirectly, was that of the several RV boards where I am a member, I haven’t seen one where folks are grilled quite so hard as here. Just an observation. Sometimes, people pull with what they have. We did that with our previous fiver. It got us back into rv’ing after a long hiatus, and we upgraded the truck when the timing was better for us.

I just disagree with some of the “absolute” responses and I’d be happy to kick back at a campfire with most anyone I talk to on all these boards and knock back a drink of your choice while we debate it. The fact is most posts anywhere on the internet have 0-some “fact” and a LOT of “opinion”.

"Sometimes, people pull with what they have". Yes they do; it doesn't make it right or safe. Sort of like turning a 5 year old loose with a loaded semi auto pistol - if they don't have knowledge of what they have and what they are doing it can be deadly which leads to;

"I haven't seen one where folks are grilled quite so hard as here".

I too belong to several boards and most pretty much ignore the issue of weight even when they know one is in over their head. I personally believe that is why we (I) see SO many folks that are clueless about their critical weights. "It pulls it fine; everything's great" is a common response and that is that persons' only criteria for towing that triple axle with their 2500. Not good.

We have new members coming on literally daily. Many have never owned a TV or RV. Many more have never even been told of the weights and how they work even though they should have been at some point in the past. On this forum we take the responsibility of sharing that information and keeping our members safe seriously.

As far as the numbers go - they are "absolute". I've not seen a single limit posted, yes mandated, by the various manufacturers that says "unless you think you know better". They are absolute and meant to be that way, if not just don't use them and do what "feels good". Most of those posted numbers say "must not exceed" - seems pretty clear....and absolute to me.
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Old 03-14-2021, 06:17 PM   #51
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Trivial, I know, but my truck GVWR is 11,500. The rest I mostly agree with. I also didn’t condone exceeding payload. My point, indirectly, was that of the several RV boards where I am a member, I haven’t seen one where folks are grilled quite so hard as here. Just an observation. Sometimes, people pull with what they have. We did that with our previous fiver. It got us back into rv’ing after a long hiatus, and we upgraded the truck when the timing was better for us.

I just disagree with some of the “absolute” responses and I’d be happy to kick back at a campfire with most anyone I talk to on all these boards and knock back a drink of your choice while we debate it. The fact is most posts anywhere on the internet have 0-some “fact” and a LOT of “opinion”.
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This is something to think about, in 2013 Ram made improvements to the 3500's. Took the 3500 DRW from 12,300# to 14,000# GVWR. They alsdo upped the 3500 SRW from 11,500# to 12,300# GVWR for a LB and 11,700# fro a SB.
Ford and GM didn't follow suit until 2020 and 2021. I would think if Ford felt their F350 SRW was strong enough they would have matched Ram in 2014! There had to be an engineering reason they didn't.
GM I not sure what their 3500 SRW was rated at maybe 11,500, but their 3500 DRW had a GVWR of 13,025# until 2021, then bumped it up to 14,000#.
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Old 03-14-2021, 07:55 PM   #52
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FWIW- Some have mentioned a SRW 1ton has limited payload. I find that absurd unless you are towing something with a pin weight excess of 2800 pounds.
My 2020 Ram 3500 SRW 4x4 with HO TD and short bed has #4020 pounds payload.
4020 - 2230 pin (39’ 5th wheel) leaves 1790 pounds for people, dogs, fuel, aux fuel tank, hitch and any gear carried in the truck.
Granted a dually has 300# more capacity but, if you can’t make 1790# work. You should be looking at an F450 and a ton more $.
The “puck system” pre installed is a must have !
The cruise control of the engine going down hill is fantastic !
I had a more upgraded Big Horn and find I like the Tradesman better. Less gadgets.
Enjoy the hunt !
Most duallys have much more than 300# more than 4020#. Usually 5200-5600# payloads. F450 doesn't necessarily have more payload than a F350.
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Old 03-15-2021, 06:43 AM   #53
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While there are questions about payloads, and assumptions abound, the statement in red above is simply conjecture/opinion, not fact, unless you have a statement from the manufacturer somewhere............. Maybe they can then define "large".
Check the actual axle ratings versus the truck payload numbers and you can usually find about a 1000lbs of extra load capacity. Maybe that's where the newer ratings come in being higher?

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Old 03-15-2021, 06:44 AM   #54
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FWIW- Some have mentioned a SRW 1ton has limited payload. I find that absurd unless you are towing something with a pin weight excess of 2800 pounds.
My 2020 Ram 3500 SRW 4x4 with HO TD and short bed has #4020 pounds payload.
4020 - 2230 pin (39’ 5th wheel) leaves 1790 pounds for people, dogs, fuel, aux fuel tank, hitch and any gear carried in the truck.
Granted a dually has 300# more capacity but, if you can’t make 1790# work. You should be looking at an F450 and a ton more $.
The “puck system” pre installed is a must have !
The cruise control of the engine going down hill is fantastic !
I had a more upgraded Big Horn and find I like the Tradesman better. Less gadgets.
Enjoy the hunt !
I have the same truck as yours (Tradesman) but is a 2018. My payload is about 200 pounds less at 3822. I have heard discussion that the newer models of the Big 3 all have adjusted numbers on payload for the better. Congrats, that will work well for you.
I have a 35 ft. fifth wheel (38' overall) and have a "loaded" pin weight of 2360 (130 lbs. more than your larger trailer?). Are you using the brochure number in your post? If so, a trip to the scales fully loaded will give you the true pin weight in order to calculate correctly. You did not mention which fifth wheel you are towing.
And yes the "exhaust brake" (if that is what you meant) is a great feature when towing downhill.
You have a beautiful state (in July ) and we are headed there to stay in Custer later this year.
And yes, I hope this helps the OP as well.
RMc
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Old 03-15-2021, 06:50 AM   #55
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Lot’s of members have much more experience than I, but I like two hd batteries and as much alternator juice as I can get (two-?) and extra electrical ports/switch capability for addons, a snow plow prep can give you some of this, plus a beefier front end. I also like the high idle option, for cold weather and charging needs. Enjoy your search.
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Old 03-15-2021, 08:03 AM   #56
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Check the actual axle ratings versus the truck payload numbers and you can usually find about a 1000lbs of extra load capacity. Maybe that's where the newer ratings come in being higher?

Griz


As far back as I remember the GAWRs will be more than the gvwr/payload. I figure that is where the manufacturer builds in their "safety factor". If you stay within the weight limits of your payload and gvwr you then have an xxx lb. cushion in the event you want to fudge. Loading to the gawr limits eliminates that safety net.
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Old 03-15-2021, 08:47 AM   #57
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I have the same truck as yours (Tradesman) but is a 2018. My payload is about 200 pounds less at 3822. I have heard discussion that the newer models of the Big 3 all have adjusted numbers on payload for the better. Congrats, that will work well for you.
I have a 35 ft. fifth wheel (38' overall) and have a "loaded" pin weight of 2360 (130 lbs. more than your larger trailer?). Are you using the brochure number in your post? If so, a trip to the scales fully loaded will give you the true pin weight in order to calculate correctly. You did not mention which fifth wheel you are towing.
And yes the "exhaust brake" (if that is what you meant) is a great feature when towing downhill.
You have a beautiful state (in July ) and we are headed there to stay in Custer later this year.
And yes, I hope this helps the OP as well.
RMc
Your seems light also for a 13,000# GVWR 5er, maybe it has to do with the forward bathroom, we have about a 2,800# pin on our 5er.
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Old 03-15-2021, 10:04 AM   #58
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I don't know Russ, that's what the numbers were last weigh. That was a while ago and I'm overdue for another check but nothing has really changed on the inventory to offset a different result. I do not know what weighs more a bath with two sinks, toilet and shower or a living room with couches,cabinets and television. The bedroom (with a slide) is also on the same upper level. I guess on my trailer the living room is more weight.
I will say the front wardrobe is where she stores her shoes and that's like 800 lbs. right there .
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Old 03-15-2021, 10:18 AM   #59
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My 34' 11" Avalanche had a loaded pin weight of 3540 last weekend..
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Old 03-15-2021, 10:34 PM   #60
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When I finally feel like I’ve been accepted by the natives ,I make a breach of etiquette and find myself being chased down the beach with spears ..

I will say I haven’t been using all my fancy cameras to back the fiver in to spots...I find it easier to just look in my mirrors while the wife is on the speaker phone
LOL me too....

Anyway I was going to ask you how the cameras worked?? I’m a mirror guy and looking at the dash just isn’t natural. I have a tough time doing it in my car. I like the idea and have played with all the different views but of course haven’t “hooked” up yet.

Not to hijack the thread...PM?
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