Raptor rear door

chunker · 04-19-2020, 08:16 AM

I ordered my Raptor 356 without the patio system but was wondering if there are any differences to the rear door/ramp itself with or without that option. I know the patio system includes the fence, rear awning, cables to suppose the door/ramp but not sure what if anything else, possibly extra ladder. Mine came with the outside leg supports, high-tech level. No steel wire support cables but of course it does have the retraction cables. I didn't want the patio because I don't have rug rats or ankle biters to restrain and I figure I'm smart enough to not fall off if I had the back open. When I have adult beverages I have a rule of no sharp tools and no heights.

Dennis852 · 04-19-2020, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunker

I ordered my Raptor 356 without the patio system but was wondering if there are any differences to the rear door/ramp itself with or without that option. I know the patio system includes the fence, rear awning, cables to suppose the door/ramp but not sure what if anything else, possibly extra ladder. Mine came with the outside leg supports, high-tech level. No steel wire support cables but of course it does have the retraction cables. I didn't want the patio because I don't have rug rats or ankle biters to restrain and I figure I'm smart enough to not fall off if I had the back open. When I have adult beverages I have a rule of no sharp tools and no heights.

The only other item mine came with is the steps and handrail that goes into the steps. They mount on entry side to 2 posts that were installed on the door. I’m curious to know if the door construction is different also. For production purposes I would think not but it could be cost effective to produce a non patio ramp as well.

LewisB · 04-20-2020, 06:19 AM

Good question about potential differences in the ramp/door construction - I don't have that answer but just guess that they are probably the same.

Our 2018 Raptor 353TS came with the rear patio option - we love it because it also includes the sliding screen doors. Once our SxS is unloaded, this becomes our dining room, the DW's sewing room, etc. Having that back door open lets in a significant amount of light and fresh air. I take my morning coffee outside and don't even need shoes! So we really like our patio!

**JRTJH** · 04-20-2020, 07:17 AM

Several years ago, when "ramp doors" became an "optional patio system" there was some "SIGNIFICANT PUSH BACK" from the door manufacturers. They claimed that the ramp doors could not be converted to patio configuration, that the internal framing/support system was not capable of supporting the weight in the "patio configuration". Around that same time, a number of people were having problems with ramps "splitting down the middle" from loading motorcycles/ATV's that were well within the ramp weight limits. The manufacturers were scrambling to educate people about using cables to support the ramp version not being a "wise use of equipment"...

Whether the ramp door/patio door is the same one "on current model toy haulers" ??? That's a $64 thousand dollar question. (for those who remember "old TV shows"). My concern would be "Is MY ramp one of the old style or one of the new style" and "When did (if ever) Keystone change over from "using ramps" to "using patio/ramps" on toyhaulers? Or, have they changed over????

I'd be reluctant to "reinvent the problem" of stringing cables on the side of a loading ramp and having it "crash to the ground" or "split down the middle" when 6 "bigger than life" adults are walking around with an adult beverage in their hand....

I suppose, at least for me, the first question is "what is on MY trailer?" and second, "Is it strong enough to convert to a patio configuration?"...

No doubt, somewhere between 2011 and 2021 models, that likely changed, but which model year/which model within that year did they stop using ramps and start using ramp/patio doors on any specific model and brand of toyhauler ????

LewisB · 04-20-2020, 07:40 AM

Interesting info John and points well made regarding a retro-fit to an earlier model trailer. I would be leary of modifying the ramp on an older style rig. I'm guessing that the newer rigs with factory installed patio systems have been vetted by the Keystone legal beagles and are reasonably safe to use following instructions.

In Chunker's case, if I understand his OP, his new non-patio rig came without the support cables but includes the outside leg supports. Using these external supports would load the weight on the door side rails just the same as a set of support cables (which would hang the weight on the side rails). That was the reasoning behind my "guess" that the doors would be the same.

There's probably no way to get an "official" answer from Keystone...

**JRTJH** · 04-20-2020, 07:57 AM

^^ I agree. And the doors may very well be "exactly the same" (except for the cable system being replaced with a "corner pylon system"... That's one for some "sleuthing by part numbers on door systems on two trailers, one with cables and one with pylon supports"

As for Keystone answering the question, my experiences with the Keystone "phone in question tree" is that your luck at getting someone who "knows" vs someone who "reads the brochure" is 50/50 on a good day and less than that on a typical day. With the offices closed at the current time, that makes it even "less reliable" that you'll get an objective, fact based answer...

Knowing the way these "patio door systems" transitioned from a ramp to a patio option, there's no telling what changed and when it changed (if it ever really changed on EVERY model)…

I believe that Lippert started producing patio door systems and, for the most part, underbid Challenger Door Company and others for the contracts. Lippert has always had "growing pains" with new product introductions. Honestly, many/most other manufacturers have also had "growing pains" with these doors as well. LCI wasn't even "in the door business" when the first ramp doors were splitting, so it's not "them that caused it"...

Without fingerpointing any manufacturer, I don't know if (or probably it's when) the ramps were changed to a "one type for all applications". Also, I can't/wouldn't suggest that there's a difference in cable support vs pylon supported ramp doors. Obviously there's a difference, whether it's a weakness in the door frame that won't support the cables or possibly it's a "space problem" with not enough room to store the cables where they're out of sight during travel ??? The doors may be "exactly the same" with application differences in cables/pylons" or there may be different doors for different options.... I just don't know and really have no idea who to turn to for an accurate answer that would be "something to rely on as reliable honesty"....

Big 417 · 04-20-2020, 08:41 AM

I would have to think the newer models are all the same. Cable only weight rating is 1500#, legs are 3000#. Cable can be undone on the stair side also.

roadglide · 04-20-2020, 09:06 AM

Keystone replaced my patio door under warranty because of separation in the middle and bowing at the back . The new door was replaced with a heavy weight rating. I know this because the old door was rated at 2500 lbs and the new door is stamped 3000 pounds right side corner. I have had no trouble with the new door the Z force weighs 1600 lbs with operator and gear in the bed that would be 400 pounds per tire .

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