Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Modifications and Upgrades
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-30-2017, 04:19 PM   #1
wiredgeorge
Senior Member
 
wiredgeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,392
black tank sensors

Idiot lights in cab work fine for water & gray tanks but the black tank, not so well. Shows it is full. I spent an hour pulling my trailer over to my septic clean out and there was NOTHING in the tank. Still shows FULL (four lights). Sensors are gummed up. Three options:
1. replace with original type sensors (cheapest)
2. use a SeeLevel II set up and spend almost $200 and I don't think they make one for two gray tanks as we have
3. Valtera (aka Horst) Miricle Probes (black tank only) at about $35 for four

I just can't afford the SeeLevel system although it is supposed to work well. The sides of our tank are flat and the tank shallow and I think this system would work fine... just too much money.

2. The OEM style probes would probably solve our issues for awhile but crawling under a black tank doesn't appeal to me enough to end up dong the job again in the future.

3. The Valtera (aka Horst) Miracle black tank probes look like a logical solution as they are designed to mitigate crud/paper clinging to a long probe. This solution is cheap.

Has anyone used the Valtera Miracle probes? Comments:

I have used a drain side flushing gizmo and I doubt it did any good due the 90 degree bend in the pipe going back to the black tank. I also used a wand and it had no effect on the issue other than bring the idiot lights down to 3 out of 4 for an empty tank. I kind of hesitate to ride around with ice cubes in the tank or put strong chemicals down into the tank as we are on a septic and most of these, including Rid-X are not good for a standard septic system. My wife is a manager at a septic company and would shoot me if I used Rid-X or similar.
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
wiredgeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 04:31 PM   #2
dwall
Senior Member
 
dwall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Dexter Ga
Posts: 130
I gave up on black tank sensors a while back. I've tried all kinds of remedies none of which seemed to work for me. Now I just look down the toilet when I flush. When it looks about half full I dump. May not be the answer you want but it works for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dwall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 05:08 PM   #3
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,599
Sensors seemed like a great thing but we no longer depend on them. We did fine when we didn't have them and now that we do they may or may not be accurate - so, I don't even look at the monitors.

For the black tank I just listen...or look. I run a bit of water when I flush so I just listen to determine the fullness. I wouldn't spend a cent on "things" to try to improve them.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 05:51 PM   #4
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,839
I've been told that I'm "full of it" so many times that I don't give it a second thought whether they're talking about me or the holding tank.... That said, I have never owned an RV with accurate holding tank probes. I've been told there are some "improved probes" available for $50 that don't foul as easy (but once they do, they're inaccurate also) and that there's an "exterior system that never fouls" (for about $250). Then there's the "different gurgle" that I hear when I flush once the tank is about 3/4 full. I've learned to rely on the "gurgle" and kept my money all these years, so I don't see a reason to "upgrade" to hard to foul (but they still do) probes and I just can't justify the expense of the exterior sensors when the "gurgle" works so well..... YMMV, but unless you install the exterior sensors, you're still going to be 'fussing with poo" every time your tank gauge reads full. "Gurgles" sound good when given the alternative..... At least for me.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 08:20 PM   #5
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
These threads continue to crack me up! I have yet to have sensors that don’t work. Most likely OP’s issue is toilet paper.

Before I had a black tank rinser, I used a dedicated hose shoved down the toilet and filled/drained the tank until I got an empty reading. Only difference is now I don’t drag a hose into the coach, just hook it up to the rinser port.

I’ve lost count of how many customers have paid us because “my tank reads full all the time” and we simply fill it full after adding tissue digester and sensor cleaner. Let it set for a day or two and drain/rinse. Only had to replace probes once.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 07:08 AM   #6
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
Almost as interesting as those who don’t put poo down the toilet and instead put it in a bag. Fifth RV. All tank sensors work well. Key in black tank is more water than you think you need before poo. [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 07:28 AM   #7
jsmith948
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central San Joaguin Valley, CA
Posts: 2,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
I kind of hesitate to ride around with ice cubes in the tank or put strong chemicals down into the tank as we are on a septic and most of these, including Rid-X are not good for a standard septic system. My wife is a manager at a septic company and would shoot me if I used Rid-X or similar.
We have a septic system. We used Rid-X regularly for many years (about 18).
We read somewhere that using Rid-X was a big no-no, so, we stopped using it.
About a year later, our system backed up. Called the honey wagon and had the tank pumped. Coincidence? I think not. We are, once again using Rid-X on a regular basis. I think septic companies don't want you to use enzymes in the septic system because it generates more business for them. JMHO
__________________

Jack & Marty
2018 Laredo 298 SRL
2011 F-250 SB Crew Cab 4x4 6.7L
jsmith948 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 07:56 AM   #8
Lee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post

I’ve lost count of how many customers have paid us because “my tank reads full all the time” and we simply fill it full after adding tissue digester and sensor cleaner. Let it set for a day or two and drain/rinse. Only had to replace probes once.
Hi,... Could you please state which tissue digester and sensor cleaner you recommend?

Thanks,
__________________
Lee

1970 F250 Highboy 4x4
2013 Cougar 21RBSWE
Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 10:08 AM   #9
Dave W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Near Saratoga Springs,
Posts: 1,131
To answer the OP question, the Horst/Valterra Miracle Sensors are not worth the effort if that's the only reason to pull the belly cover down,

The existing sensors are very small and protrude into the tank less then 1/4" which means that TP and whatever can't actually hang on them. But they can become covered in sloshed up sludge, therefore your erroneous readings. The Horst sensors have a wire about an inch long along with a Teflon shield that covers the top, assuming you install them correctly. Unfortunately, with the added length inside the tank, TP WILL hang up on them and they WILL fill with sludge if you tow with anything in the tank.

To answer your unspoken question, yes, I do have them installed on our 5er. Yes, they will work as advertised IFyou never tow your trailer. Yes, if you have to pull the belly cover down for other reasons as I did, they might be a good choice. But with that said, dig the change out from under the couch cushions and save for a SeeLevel system as they do work nicely, giving the tank level in percentage as those were on our last 5er
Dave W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 11:55 AM   #10
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Hi,... Could you please state which tissue digester and sensor cleaner you recommend?

Thanks,
At work I use whatever is on the parts shelf, Didnt really pay attention to brand. I will take a look next time I work.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 01:21 PM   #11
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
I've had 8-10 rvs over the years & have NEVER had one that the black sensors worked after the 1st fill or 2 & currently pay no attention to any of the sensors, black, grey or fresh water.
Those that claim they are accurate, one question, how do you confirm that when it indicates 1/3 that it's 1/3? Sight glass, dipstick, see through tank?
My current 5er has read 1/3 on both greys, no toilet in them, black tank has read 2/3s since day one & all the rinsing, none of the magic potions or elixirs has changed it from 2/3.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 01:30 PM   #12
dcg9381
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
Those that claim they are accurate, one question, how do you confirm that when it indicates 1/3 that it's 1/3? Sight glass, dipstick, see through tank?.

My guess is by virtue that they change values at all after draining the tank!

My experience, like yours - is that these generally suck. They're great at "approximation". Yet another "for the price" this is probably the right solution.

I'm SURE there is a better accuracy solution. I'm not sure that you can do it at the same price of what basically is a 3-pickup system...
dcg9381 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 01:56 PM   #13
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,599
I've been brainstorming on this problem.....

What would be wrong with using the black tank until it's full; right up in the neck of the toilet, then just taking a wooden stick (1x2?) and putting it in to the bottom then marking it. I'm sure the tank will angle to the drain but you would know empty vs full under the toilet. Then, if you were worried you could just stick the stick in the "stuff" in the tank and see how deep it was...... Just thinking of an easy, economical way to have a "monitoring" system.....
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 02:18 PM   #14
Dave W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Near Saratoga Springs,
Posts: 1,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I've been brainstorming on this problem.....

What would be wrong with using the black tank until it's full; right up in the neck of the toilet, then just taking a wooden stick (1x2?) and putting it in to the bottom then marking it. I'm sure the tank will angle to the drain but you would know empty vs full under the toilet. Then, if you were worried you could just stick the stick in the "stuff" in the tank and see how deep it was...... Just thinking of an easy, economical way to have a "monitoring" system.....
''

A Dipstick, now that's a fine idea .... until you run up against many that aren't a straight drop to the tank such as many Montana's as ours and our last, a Titanium plus many more.

Gotta say that the SeeLevel units work and are installed on many high end Class A's as well as commercial tank trucks. They do not have a tank penetration sensor but rely on an electronic strip or several in series if so dictated by tank size pasted to the side of a tank. There is a well written up set of instructions including how to calibrate the system. Just because I could, did a double check with a 5 gallon bucket ... and their calibration method works and reads in percentage, 0 to 100
Dave W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 08:08 PM   #15
wiredgeorge
Senior Member
 
wiredgeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,392
FWIW, I am happy for the folks who can use ESP to tell how full the black tank is. I can't. This isn't my first (had quite a few actually) but am a casual rv-er and really would like working idiot lights.

My tank isn't accessible with a dipstick as the drain angles fairly sharply towards the rear (and down of course). The sensors are easily accessible from underneath as there is no magic fabric covering the black tank. Can't afford the SeeLevel system and the sensors are fairly inexpensive and don't need new ones for the two grey tanks as the sensors work fine on those. Thanks!
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
wiredgeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 08:38 PM   #16
IRV2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Acton
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I've been brainstorming on this problem.....

What would be wrong with using the black tank until it's full; right up in the neck of the toilet, then just taking a wooden stick (1x2?) and putting it in to the bottom then marking it. I'm sure the tank will angle to the drain but you would know empty vs full under the toilet. Then, if you were worried you could just stick the stick in the "stuff" in the tank and see how deep it was...... Just thinking of an easy, economical way to have a "monitoring" system.....
Sourdough You could totally market this and call it the Stink Stick© to be made of a bendable plastic and indent markings to catch the "stuff", also be sure to sell the squeegee tube separately.
__________________


2018 Keystone Laredo 298RL
2003 Keystone Laredo 27RL
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie DRW
IRV2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 01:52 AM   #17
notanlines
Senior Member
 
notanlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,308
I see a small problem here. Y'all are assuming that the average RV'er is allowed to "make deposits" in the commode rather than be required to use the camp stool. That being the case you are putting a crimp on my commode liner invention I'm working on. I don't want to get too far into this thing and then find that everyone actually USES the commode in the RV.
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
notanlines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 05:39 AM   #18
CrazyCain
Senior Member
 
CrazyCain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Commerce Twp, Mi
Posts: 1,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmith948 View Post
We have a septic system. We used Rid-X regularly for many years (about 18).
We read somewhere that using Rid-X was a big no-no, so, we stopped using it.
About a year later, our system backed up. Called the honey wagon and had the tank pumped. Coincidence? I think not. We are, once again using Rid-X on a regular basis. I think septic companies don't want you to use enzymes in the septic system because it generates more business for them. JMHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
I see a small problem here. Y'all are assuming that the average RV'er is allowed to "make deposits" in the commode rather than be required to use the camp stool. That being the case you are putting a crimp on my commode liner invention I'm working on. I don't want to get too far into this thing and then find that everyone actually USES the commode in the RV.
Seems there is a thread about using the commode or not in the RV..

__________________
TOM

2011 Chevy Silverado
1500, HD Tow Package
2017 Keystone Hideout 177LHS Carlisle Radial HDs
:
CrazyCain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 10:44 AM   #19
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Hi,... Could you please state which tissue digester and sensor cleaner you recommend?



Thanks,


I looked and both products are made by Thetford.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 03:16 PM   #20
instymp
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Weaverville, NC
Posts: 86
I have used this, Thetford Tissue Digester before when I had an issue & it worked for us.

(Taste better with a beer chaser)
Kidding!
instymp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tank

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.