Laredo 50 amp TT wired with 8/3?????

[Wally15]

The hits just keep on coming. Ordered an in-line Electrical Management System for my (new to me) '13 308re yesterday (PI HW50C). Today I started looking behind the main c/b panel (WFCO WF-8930/50) to see how the main line came into the panel. I noticed it was apparently 8/3 wire feeding the main breaker panel. I have always been taught that 10 ga = 30 amps, 8 ga = 40 amps, and 6 ga = 50 amps. I just spent $120 buying a 25' of 6/3 connector to tie the TT into the power pedestal at the parks.
Is 8/3 standard on 50 amp circuits in RV's? I don't believe that's up to code for houses. I must admit I could not see any writing on the wire casing, but the diameter of the wire is about equal to my index finger. Interior 6/3 is usually about the diameter of my thumb. I wired my shop and ran a lot of 8/3 for my 220V toys, so I'm somewhat familiar with wire sizes. I'd have to pull the panel to read the casing info, but I've never seen 6/3 that small. This TT was "special ordered" for 50 amp service. Can't imagine they would use 8/3 for 30 amps of 120V, but why use it for 50/220?

[Bob Landry]

50A service does require #6 wire. Wire for AC is sized according load, not to the length of the wire run like wire used in DC applications, so it needs #6. I would open up and explore enough to verify the wire size.
It's possible that the trailer was wired with #6 SAE wire. That wire is 12-18% smaller that AWG wire of the same gauge and will not handle as much current. I'm not sure which type Romex is, but that's what you are going to find going to the power panel.
When I first started doing electrical mods on my trailer, I also thought the wire to the panel was small, but it turned out to be #10.

[Wally15]

I pulled the main panel cover in the TT this afternoon. I discovered the main line from the 50 amp plug to the panel is indeed 6 ga 4 conductor wire. With the exception that the ground wire is solid 12 ga. Don't think I've ever seen that combination before. Does that meet code???
See attached pic. Why would I even bother to have a 6 ga ground downstream from a 12 ga ground?
If you notice , the EMS is partially wired. I had some 6 ga 3 conductor lying around, so I used it and added another 6 ga wire that I coded red for the 2nd hot. Now I'm thinking about removing the 4th wire, coding the green ground wire red and moving it to the hot, and using some 10 ga I have handy as my ground. It gets awful crowded on that end of the EMS with 4 6 ga wires (and the 2 sensors).
Always open to opinions and suggestions.
Mike

[apachewolf]

Sorry but could not help but comment on this one:
The 50 AMP wiring in my Laredo 240MK consist of 2 25 AMP breakers. There are 4 wires going to the panel, and the potential between the 2 current carrying wires is actually 240 V. The third wire is a common neutral and than there is a dedicated ground. So if you are hooked to a 30 AMP outlet at the CG you are only using 1 side of the panel, which is 25 AMP. If it is a true 30 AMP panel you got 30 AMP. So to use 6 ga wire for 50 AMP would only be necessary if all 50 AMP came in on ONE wire, but since it is split on the panel so there is only 25 AMP available on each leg it is overkill. Not necessary. 10 ga will carry 31 AMP bundled/confined and 50 AMP in open air. The only time there is an advantage of 50 over 30 AMP is if the second breaker is used. Those “cheaters” that will allow you to use a 50 AMP cable on a 30 AMP pedestal are wire so that only one side is used.

I know it sounds complicated but it is really pretty forward. Your house is wired the same way. If you open your panel you’ll see it. That is why you can have both 120 V and 240 V in your house. The higher the voltage is the smaller diameter wire can be used. Since I only have one AC unit in mine, and don’t plan to install a second, I will swap out 1 25 AMP breaker for a 30 AMP and re-wire we intake for only 30 AMP.

Happy camping.

[SteveC7010]

Originally Posted by Wally15

Does that meet code???

What we all think of as "code", meaning local building codes, do not apply to RV's. RVIA holds sway, and if we're to believe their own hype, they rigidly apply NFPA 1152, NEC 70, and ANSI LV. However, since RVIA is made up of the RV industry itself, one can't help but wonder how many "exceptions" have crept into the standards over the years. I suspect your feed line with smaller gauge ground is a perfect example.

[TallEddie]

Originally Posted by apachewolf

Sorry but could not help but comment on this one:
The 50 AMP wiring in my Laredo 240MK consist of 2 25 AMP breakers. There are 4 wires going to the panel, and the potential between the 2 current carrying wires is actually 240 V. The third wire is a common neutral and than there is a dedicated ground. So if you are hooked to a 30 AMP outlet at the CG you are only using 1 side of the panel, which is 25 AMP. If it is a true 30 AMP panel you got 30 AMP. So to use 6 ga wire for 50 AMP would only be necessary if all 50 AMP came in on ONE wire, but since it is split on the panel so there is only 25 AMP available on each leg it is overkill. Not necessary. 10 ga will carry 31 AMP bundled/confined and 50 AMP in open air. The only time there is an advantage of 50 over 30 AMP is if the second breaker is used. Those “cheaters” that will allow you to use a 50 AMP cable on a 30 AMP pedestal are wire so that only one side is used.

I know it sounds complicated but it is really pretty forward. Your house is wired the same way. If you open your panel you’ll see it. That is why you can have both 120 V and 240 V in your house. The higher the voltage is the smaller diameter wire can be used. Since I only have one AC unit in mine, and don’t plan to install a second, I will swap out 1 25 AMP breaker for a 30 AMP and re-wire we intake for only 30 AMP.

Happy camping.

This seems like an odd setup. My 303TG has 50 AMP service, and there are 2 50 AMP main breakers in the panel.

50 AMP service has 2 hots (120V, 50 AMP) 1 neutral and 1 ground. So you really have 100 amps total. 30 AMP service has one hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground.

You are correct that each hot wire from the 50A service powers half the of panel. However, the cheater devices, that adapt the 50AMP cable to a 30AMP outlet actually tie the two hot wires in the 50AMP cable to the single 30AMP hot wire. If you didn't tie the two hots together, and only supplied power to one of the two hot wires, then half of the panel would receive no power.

http://www.myrv.us/electric/

http://www.rv-dreams.com/rv-electrical.html

[apachewolf]

Well the electric panel on my brand new Laredo 240MK is not the only weird thing. On the first trip out we found on the 3rd day that the fridge was not working correctly. Back to the dealer, (150 miles) and after testing and looking they found that Keystone had "forgotten" to cut a hole in the roof for the fridge chimney. Off we went again, only to find that the fridge would work somewhat correctly for a day or two and than the temp in the fridge was up to 50. Back to the dealer. (Only 25 miles this time). They found after running some more test that the fridge should be replaced. Luckily Dometic agreed and we are awaiting a new fridge. We also found that there was a switch for "porch light" but Keystone had forgotten to install that light. And a few other minor things but still irritating on a new camper. When I asked if the new fridge could be delivered with left hand hinged doors the answer was NO!. Keystone has mandated right hand hinges and that can not be changed. Don't know why. Just weird.

Happy camping.

[chuckster57]

Here you go:

http://www.americanrvcompany.com/Dom...per-Trailer-RV

[JRTJH]

apachewolf,

You might want to consider that you're not getting "the whole story" from whomever you're talking to about your trailer. First, during the PDI, the refrigerator should have been checked for operation. It's really hard to imagine that it would work properly in Tucson, AZ (in the heat of the day) without proper venting, so without a "hole in the roof" it probably would have never gotten cold in 100F temperatures during the delivery prep. Additionally, there is a "simple hinge change" that costs less than $5 to switch door swing on either Dometic or Norcold refrigerators. Whomever told you that "Keystone mandates right hand hinges" didn't tell you the "rest of the story"

I would urge you to verify the information you're being given, it sure sounds "too tall to be gospel".......

[apachewolf]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Here you go:

http://www.americanrvcompany.com/Dom...per-Trailer-RV

Thank you so much. This will make life easier.....WHEN we get the camper back.

Happy camping.

[apachewolf]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

apachewolf,

You might want to consider that you're not getting "the whole story" from whomever you're talking to about your trailer. First, during the PDI, the refrigerator should have been checked for operation. It's really hard to imagine that it would work properly in Tucson, AZ (in the heat of the day) without proper venting, so without a "hole in the roof" it probably would have never gotten cold in 100F temperatures during the delivery prep. Additionally, there is a "simple hinge change" that costs less than $5 to switch door swing on either Dometic or Norcold refrigerators. Whomever told you that "Keystone mandates right hand hinges" didn't tell you the "rest of the story"

I would urge you to verify the information you're being given, it sure sounds "too tall to be gospel".......

Ok...Prior to taking delivery I went thru the camper myself, armed with a laser pointing thermometer, and told the prepping tech that I did not think the fridge was working correctly. He was checking and re-cheking and we got it home. (25 miles south of Tucson). Fridge appeared to be working ok. Once in Mesa where we had leased a spot for 4 months ($ 599.00 + electric and garbage) my wife complained about her milk not being cold. So we got a thermometer set with a wireless remote, and could watch as the temp crawled up hour by hour, until at night it would dip. I did have an electric fan blowing in the chimney area and that is probably what helped keep it down. After they had it at the dealer for a week they had run different test on it and it seemed to work. When we got it home I again placed the thermometer in the fridge and it did go down to about 38, but soon it began to climb again. So I returned it with a log run over 36 hrs, that showed how bad it was. Service Mgr. ran some more test and this time he concluded that the fridge was "fried". Dometic granted a brand new fridge be installed and that is where we are now. Dealer also used some of the time to beef up the flimsy benches in the dinette, one of which had partly collapsed because of the use of staples instead of screws. We'll get the porch light installed and the other small things will also be done.

We love the lay-out of the 240MK and hope to use it many years to come.

Happy camping.

[Wally15]

Originally Posted by apachewolf

Sorry but could not help but comment on this one:
The 50 AMP wiring in my Laredo 240MK consist of 2 25 AMP breakers. There are 4 wires going to the panel, and the potential between the 2 current carrying wires is actually 240 V. The third wire is a common neutral and than there is a dedicated ground. So if you are hooked to a 30 AMP outlet at the CG you are only using 1 side of the panel, which is 25 AMP. If it is a true 30 AMP panel you got 30 AMP. So to use 6 ga wire for 50 AMP would only be necessary if all 50 AMP came in on ONE wire, but since it is split on the panel so there is only 25 AMP available on each leg it is overkill. Not necessary. 10 ga will carry 31 AMP bundled/confined and 50 AMP in open air. The only time there is an advantage of 50 over 30 AMP is if the second breaker is used. Those “cheaters” that will allow you to use a 50 AMP cable on a 30 AMP pedestal are wire so that only one side is used.

I know it sounds complicated but it is really pretty forward. Your house is wired the same way. If you open your panel you’ll see it. That is why you can have both 120 V and 240 V in your house. The higher the voltage is the smaller diameter wire can be used. Since I only have one AC unit in mine, and don’t plan to install a second, I will swap out 1 25 AMP breaker for a 30 AMP and re-wire we intake for only 30 AMP.

Happy camping.

As the OP of this thread from 20 months ago, I'm still very pleased with how the EMS operates and the info it provides. Microwaves and hairdryers use a lot of amps. So glad I got the 50 amp upgrade. Also needed both a/c's running most of the day in the FL Panhandle this past summer.
It's not the heat, it's the humanity
Life is good, and the fishing has been great.