LED Melting

Nuke · 09-21-2015, 12:25 PM

We've experienced what our dealer says is 'weird'; I say it borders on scary... the LED (puck, I think is the proper name???) lights in our 2015 30ripr have started to melt the plastic covers. Two have been significant enough to set off the smoke detector (a fire alarm is not something a guy from submarines wants to hear, but that's a story for another day). Thus far, we've seen seven out of the dozen or so installed do this - and none at the same time (which makes it that much more puzzling). The LEDs get hot enough to melt a dime-sized dimple (pointing downward) in the dome cover.

Our dealer (which is FANTASTIC, by the way - shout out to Crowder RV in Johnson City, TN!) is puzzled and has contacted Keytone (no response yet). The problem is serious enough that we try our best not to use the ceiling LED lights if we can avoid it.

Has anyone else experienced this melting phenomenon with the stock LED lights?

Thanks in advance!

John

**hankpage** · 09-21-2015, 03:48 PM

Are you sure the lights in question are LED????

Halogen bulbs can do this but I have never seen an LED generate enough heat that it can not be handled no less melt a lens cover.

Steve S · 09-21-2015, 05:03 PM

I'm thinking that you don't have LED lights as they give off next to nothing for heat. All my lights are LED and I have 2 that run 24/7 and no probs.
If you have the standard lights they do get hot and yes they'll melt the covers

dcg9381 · 09-21-2015, 05:27 PM

See if you can ID the manufacturer of the lights. Look up the part number (I had to use a magnifying glass). Call the manufacturer directly.

Nuke · 09-21-2015, 05:37 PM

Yes, they are LED (like 6 of them on a printed circuit board in each fixture). And I agree, they shouldn't generate that amount of heat. Even the board is black/burnt where the components are attached. I've attached a photo of one of the burned boards.

GaryWT · 09-21-2015, 05:40 PM

Led lights have some type of ballast and they need to be designed to disperse the heat. If made cheaply LED lights will heat up and either burn out prematurely or cause a fire. Lights we work with have to be tested by the Design Light Consortium before we allow them to be installed in commercial or residential spaces. Sounds like these are either defective or made cheaply. LED lights do best when the are installed in freezers as they are kept so cool.

Steve S · 09-21-2015, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuke

Yes, they are LED (like 6 of them on a printed circuit board in each fixture). And I agree, they shouldn't generate that amount of heat. Even the board is black/burnt where the components are attached. I've attached a photo of one of the burned boards.

Wow I've never seen LED lights like this, they sure look bulky.
Have you thought about replacing them with the pancake ones?

**JRTJH** · 09-21-2015, 06:21 PM

I can accept one "melted" LED fixture, but seven???? Something is significantly wrong, either with the batch of LED fixtures that were installed or with the trailer wiring. Since you're the only member that has reported the problem, I'd suspect that it's not the actual LED's that are failing, but rather something in your trailer 12 volt wiring is not wired/working properly. Whether it's a "spiking" converter, a shorted 110/12 volt connection that isn't supposed to even exist or some other issue, I'd suspect the trailer, not the LED fixtures.

Please keep us posted as things progress, other members may start reporting similar issues, especially if it's the LED's that are faulty.

**sourdough** · 09-22-2015, 09:50 AM

It sure looks like an over voltage situation. Check your incoming voltage vs the spec for the led. Your converter could be putting out too much voltage but I would think you would have additional problems. The leds could be made cheaply and just be prone to failure or they are spec'd wrong and your trailer voltage is just too much for that particular model led. Whatever it is what is happening to your leds is dangerous and needs to be checked out. You may have a far bigger problem and it could manifest itself in some tragic form.

dcg9381 · 09-22-2015, 10:11 AM

I wager against that, although it's easily figured out and I'm just guessing.

If it was over voltage, it's affect all of the "on" lighting at the same time.
Generally LEDs with a board configuration in front of the actually have a regulator of some type (someone else called it a ballast) - those regulators tend to accept a pretty good range of voltage.

My *guess* is that most of this stuff is manufactured in China and then imported to the USA to be branded.

**sourdough** · 09-22-2015, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcg9381

I wager against that, although it's easily figured out and I'm just guessing.

If it was over voltage, it's affect all of the "on" lighting at the same time.
Generally LEDs with a board configuration in front of the actually have a regulator of some type (someone else called it a ballast) - those regulators tend to accept a pretty good range of voltage.

My *guess* is that most of this stuff is manufactured in China and then imported to the USA to be branded.

The leds I installed in my trailer were spec'd for 12V only. Of the 36 I installed at least 10, if not more, have had complete failure and another dozen or so have lost more than 2 leds on the board. Some have gotten a little brown at the bottom but not sure how many because the original non led lights had browned some of the bases already. The regulated leds you speak of are what I have ordered now and they do seem to solve this problem from the accounts I've read. Whether overvoltage, cheap hardware or some other problem, anything getting hot enough to burn up like the pic shows and melt the plastic on the cover is dangerous and needs to be investigated sooner rather than later.

B-O-B'03 · 09-22-2015, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuke

Yes, they are LED (like 6 of them on a printed circuit board in each fixture). And I agree, they shouldn't generate that amount of heat. Even the board is black/burnt where the components are attached. I've attached a photo of one of the burned boards.

That is totally different than the ceiling LED flat panels in my 2014 22RBPR.

With the cover on

They look brighter white than this.

I wonder if this type of fixture could be retro fitted into your camper?

-Brian

Nuke · 09-22-2015, 06:04 PM

Brian:

These lights are almost identical in physical shape to the ones in our unit. Our light dome is approximately 3.5 inches in diameter, so I bet they would fit nicely. Have a part number on them, by chance? Always good to be prepared if we get left out in the cold by Keystone!

Thanks in advance!!!

John

B-O-B'03 · 09-22-2015, 08:58 PM

Hi John,

There was no part number on them, that I could see.

I am not sure how big they are, but would be happy to go out an measure them in the morning.

They were the standard factory ceiling lights on our camper, maybe your dealer could look them up.

Thanks,

-Brian

**JRTJH** · 09-22-2015, 10:41 PM

I believe this is the surface mount LED fixture used in the 2014 Premier: http://www.trekwood.com/products/331...-Surface-Mount

apachewolf · 09-23-2015, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuke

Yes, they are LED (like 6 of them on a printed circuit board in each fixture). And I agree, they shouldn't generate that amount of heat. Even the board is black/burnt where the components are attached. I've attached a photo of one of the burned boards.

All the visible parts are what's called "surface mounted" vs. "thru-hole". One of the parts in the lower left hand corner looks to be a surface mounted resistor. If the the current supplied to the resister exceed the rated value, it'll burn, which it looks like happened here. The single component in the lower right hand corner looks to be a voltage regulator. LED's operate on low voltage but when used in a circuit like those in RV's (12 VDC) they use a voltage regulator to bring the voltage down and the resistors cut the current. If the regulator fails too much voltage/current will go to the resistor, it in turn will burn out. I'm sure you might even be able to light the LED by applying 1.5V from a AA battery to the leads on the LED. Watch out as they are polarity sensitive and will only light up if the leads are correctly attached.

Happy camping.

B-O-B'03 · 09-23-2015, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuke

Brian:

These lights are almost identical in physical shape to the ones in our unit. Our light dome is approximately 3.5 inches in diameter, so I bet they would fit nicely. Have a part number on them, by chance? Always good to be prepared if we get left out in the cold by Keystone!

Thanks in advance!!!

John

Hi John,

I went out and measured one of my ceiling lights.

The metal plate is 4 1/2 inches across, the plastic cover is about 5 inches.

-Brian

Nuke · 11-21-2015, 06:23 AM

Thanks for the input/info!

I checked in with our dealer yesterday. He called Keystone (on speakerphone) while I was there. The keystone rep admits they have experienced issues with the LEDs we have in our 30ripr. He indicated that the manufacturer has "come up with a solution and that all future lights will be the new/improved version".

With that, the dealer ordered replacement lights for every fixture in our unit.

Hopefully this will put this issue to rest...

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