Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Tires, Tires, Tires!
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2020, 06:33 PM   #1
Brantlyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 366
Balance beads

Guessing the tires didn’t come from the factory balanced and if replacing it sounds like having the proper balancer for trailer tires is rare.

Has anyone used balance beads? What was your experiance?
__________________
Brant
2020 Ford F-350 CCLB, 7.3 gas
2022 Arcadia 3940LT
Brantlyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2020, 06:51 PM   #2
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,601
I have used balance beads and they worked great from my experience. The issue I had is the apparent decomposition of the materials.

Had them installed on a new set of tires and they worked really well with a really smooth ride. On about the 2nd long trip to FL my valve cores would stick open every time I tried to adjust/air up the tires. Initially thought it was due to beach sand somehow ALWAYS being stuck down inside the valve stem. I don't believe that was the case; I think the beads themselves wear down and then get stuck in the valve core. It caused me some issue because sometimes the core would not close. Replaced them all and still had issues. So, in my experience, they work well at the balancing aspect but cause other issues and I don't/won't use them anymore.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2020, 06:52 PM   #3
Willie & Bev
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Newburgh
Posts: 70
I don't have any experience with trailer tires. I used them for years on Honda Gold Wing motorcycles. Regardless of what anyone may say they did work on my motorcycle. I have been tempted to try them on our TT.
Willie & Bev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2020, 06:55 PM   #4
Willie & Bev
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Newburgh
Posts: 70
Danny brought up a good point. I was told that you should give the valve stem a small puff of air to push any beads out of the stem before checking air pressure or adding air. I think they make a valve stem that will not allow the beads to enter. I have never seen one though.

Willie
Willie & Bev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2020, 07:17 PM   #5
Brantlyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I have used balance beads and they worked great from my experience. The issue I had is the apparent decomposition of the materials.

Had them installed on a new set of tires and they worked really well with a really smooth ride. On about the 2nd long trip to FL my valve cores would stick open every time I tried to adjust/air up the tires. Initially thought it was due to beach sand somehow ALWAYS being stuck down inside the valve stem. I don't believe that was the case; I think the beads themselves wear down and then get stuck in the valve core. It caused me some issue because sometimes the core would not close. Replaced them all and still had issues. So, in my experience, they work well at the balancing aspect but cause other issues and I don't/won't use them anymore.
Since it takes a minimum speed to generate enough centrifugal force to hold the beads I always wondered if any damage occurred to the rubber, but your scenario makes sense also. At low speed they probably tumble around like clothes in a dryer. I can defiantly see them wearing away to granular or even powder.
It would have been interesting to see what everything had looked like when the tires got changed out.

With everything going on I don’t see tires as an option this year. I have not called around to see if anyone has the correct balancer, just thinking about options. I plan to defiantly replace in 2021 so beads might be ok for a year.
__________________
Brant
2020 Ford F-350 CCLB, 7.3 gas
2022 Arcadia 3940LT
Brantlyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2020, 08:19 PM   #6
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
I have not checked tonight to see if there has been any change, but the "Carlisle tire warranty" specifically excluded tires in which any sealant or balance bead type accessory has been used. I believe Goodyear has the same exclusion, so before you do install the beads, double check the tire warranty.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2020, 08:34 PM   #7
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,601
I do believe there are exclusions on the use of beads if you think you may use a tire warranty....I never have. I'm not sure what they do to the tires and I've never opened one up after extended use but I did see some pics of motorcycle tires that had apparently been damaged by their use.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 12:42 AM   #8
Willie & Bev
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Newburgh
Posts: 70
I have never had any tire damage from using them and have reused some of the beads when changing tires on the motorcycle. Back then I had the equipment to change my own tires. Some manufactures do void the warranty if you use them. Back then I was averaging 20, 000 miles a year. The beads were easier for me to use then the weights. I probably won't use them on the TT. The dealer I bought the Goodyear tires from claims they balance them the correct way. I wasn't able to see for sure how they do them.

Willie
Willie & Bev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 03:56 AM   #9
German Shepherd Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Norwood, CO
Posts: 667
Just wondering, why would balancing TT tires be any different from balancing a tire on a car or truck? Why would a "proper balancer for trailer tires is rare." be the case? When I had the new Goodyears put on the TT I had them balanced. My mechanic didn't act like that was a strange request. Am I missing something?
On my motorcycle, a road bike, I have often not balanced the tires and noticed no difference in wear to the ones I have balanced. But then I buy top of the line tires and change them out once a season so maybe I am not the best test case. I have never heard of balance beads. I love this forum, learn something new almost every week.
__________________

German Shepherd Guy

2018 Keystone 26RBPR
2014 Suburban 2500, 6L with 3.73 rear

German Shepherd Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 04:39 AM   #10
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
Discount tire never had an issue balancing our tires.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 08:04 AM   #11
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post
Just wondering, why would balancing TT tires be any different from balancing a tire on a car or truck? Why would a "proper balancer for trailer tires is rare." be the case? When I had the new Goodyears put on the TT I had them balanced. My mechanic didn't act like that was a strange request. Am I missing something?
On my motorcycle, a road bike, I have often not balanced the tires and noticed no difference in wear to the ones I have balanced. But then I buy top of the line tires and change them out once a season so maybe I am not the best test case. I have never heard of balance beads. I love this forum, learn something new almost every week.
The balancing "technique" depends on the rim which is built relevant to the spindle. Some are "hub centric" (most cars) where the center hole of the wheel is machines to be concentric to the outside of the rim. When the wheel is mounted the wheel "centers itself" on the hub. When it is balanced the machine uses a cone to mount the wheel to the balancer.

The second is "lug centric" (most trailer wheels) where the lug holes are concentric with the outside rim of the wheel. The wheel must be balanced with a machine that has an adapter plate in order to get the wheel centered on the machine.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 08:09 AM   #12
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post
Just wondering, why would balancing TT tires be any different from balancing a tire on a car or truck? Why would a "proper balancer for trailer tires is rare." be the case? ...
Most vehicle wheels are "hub centric" (centered on the axle by properly sized hub hole) while most trailer wheels are cast to fit multiple size hubs and are "lug centric" (centered on the axle by properly positioned "angled lugs" that pull the wheel to the center of the "larger hub hole")

If you look at your trailer lug nuts, they are "cut at an angle" to pull the wheel into position and if you look at your vehicle lug nuts, they are "flat" because they don't need to "pull the wheel" as the wheel "snugly sits on the axle/hub casting".

The reason "many tire shops" can't properly balance "trailer wheels" is because they don't have the fitting for their balance machine that "properly positions a lug centric wheel on the hub centric balance wheel" so when they "spin it up" it isn't properly centered on the machine and that small "off center position" is enough to throw the balance off "just a tad".....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 08:14 AM   #13
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post
Just wondering, why would balancing TT tires be any different from balancing a tire on a car or truck? Why would a "proper balancer for trailer tires is rare." be the case? When I had the new Goodyears put on the TT I had them balanced. My mechanic didn't act like that was a strange request. Am I missing something?
On my motorcycle, a road bike, I have often not balanced the tires and noticed no difference in wear to the ones I have balanced. But then I buy top of the line tires and change them out once a season so maybe I am not the best test case. I have never heard of balance beads. I love this forum, learn something new almost every week.
Vehicle wheels are "hub centric" meaning the wheel is centered on the axle by the hub/spindle, you'll notice no gap around the wheel center & the hub.
Trailer wheels are "lug centric" meaning they are centered by the lug nuts, usually the center of the wheel isn't touching the spindle.
I've never had trailer tires balanced, would it have made any difference in wear??? IDK! Last set on my 16.5k 5th wheel had somewhere between 40 & 50k miles with good even wear on all 4. Had the axles aligned after about 5k miles which made a huge difference in tire wear.
Did it affect the ride? IDK! Didn't ride back there & never had cabinets or anything else shake off the walls.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 04:50 PM   #14
slow
Senior Member
 
slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,196
I suspect that with a machined aluminum wheel there is negligible difference in effectiveness in balancing using the hub verses the lug holes because of the machining tolerances achieved.

On the other hand, lug centric verses hub centric is probably important when balancing a stamped steel wheel.
__________________
2018 Jayco Eagle HT 265BHS (previous: 2015 23RB Passport Elite, ProPride)
2015 F250 XLT SB Crew, 6.2l gas
PullRite 16K SuperGlide w/SuperRail
Reese 5th Airborne (bagged) Pin Box
RoadMaster Shock Kit
X-Factor Cross Bracing
slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 06:53 PM   #15
Roscommon48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 596
I'd just get them balanced. I have never used beads.


And for the most part trailer tires don't get balanced.
Roscommon48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 07:16 PM   #16
Old Mustanger
Senior Member
 
Old Mustanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Rockett, TX
Posts: 480
I have never seen a "flat" lug nut, car, truck or trailer ymmv
__________________
Jerry & Debbie
with Fur Babies Sasha & Sam
2018 Alpine 3401RS
2019 Ford F350 SRW
Old Mustanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 07:24 PM   #17
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mustanger View Post
I have never seen a "flat" lug nut, car, truck or trailer ymmv
Take a look at the lug nuts that are on your SuperDuty.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	superduty lug nuts.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	209.3 KB
ID:	25993  
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 08:15 PM   #18
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Click image for larger version

Name:	RNB-611-296_OP.jpg
Views:	204
Size:	17.4 KB
ID:	25994
GMC DUALLY lug nuts.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 09:32 PM   #19
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
Attachment 25994
GMC DUALLY lug nuts.
That look like the ones on my Ram.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2020, 07:24 AM   #20
Bill-2020
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Most vehicle wheels are "hub centric" (centered on the axle by properly sized hub hole) while most trailer wheels are cast to fit multiple size hubs and are "lug centric" (centered on the axle by properly positioned "angled lugs" that pull the wheel to the center of the "larger hub hole")

If you look at your trailer lug nuts, they are "cut at an angle" to pull the wheel into position and if you look at your vehicle lug nuts, they are "flat" because they don't need to "pull the wheel" as the wheel "snugly sits on the axle/hub casting".

The reason "many tire shops" can't properly balance "trailer wheels" is because they don't have the fitting for their balance machine that "properly positions a lug centric wheel on the hub centric balance wheel" so when they "spin it up" it isn't properly centered on the machine and that small "off center position" is enough to throw the balance off "just a tad".....
So I had the fleeting thought this weekend to get the wheels balanced before a long trip north. I took two of the four into Discount Tire this morning and they balanced them. I'll take the other two in tomorrow for the same. But now I wonder if they used hub or lug centric. I'll have to ask. Another post on this thread says it's no matter on aluminum wheels (which is what I have). One of the two wheels from this morning had 16 lead weights stuck down on the inside. That's a lot of out of balance in my book! What kind of tree did I decide to climb?!
Bill-2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.