Towing with a payload

[Randy_K]

Towing with a payload

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been trying to do some research but i keep finding different answers on the Ford forum. I was hoping some of you guys could help me. I know the " can i tow this " gets asked a lot but please help out a new guy.

I have a 2010 F150 4X4 XTR Screw. I have the long bed and the 4.6 motor. I know my tow rating is 7,600 lbs

The trailer i have just ordered is 4,600 lbs with a tongue weight of 590 lbs. I have a center line leveling hitch and sway bars ordered as well. The trailer dealer said that they can set up the torsion bars as to make the tongue weight as light as 0 pounds ???

I think i am alright with just the trailer but i want to put my two motorcycles in the bed of the truck. The two bikes weigh about 650lbs.

Any thoughts or advice ?

Thanks, Randy

[chuck&gail]

Your dealer is an idiot. Tongue weight needs to be 13 to 15% of the total LOADED weight of the trailer for safe towing. ZERO tongue weight? Make sure you check EVERYTHING, as they have never used or towed a TT!!!!!!!!!!!

Is the 4600# the GVWR, or unloaded weight? Difference is usually at least 1000#. Once you are sure of tongue weight (see above) you can see what your margin is if you can find actual truck unloaded weight (go weigh it) and truck GVWR (should say on doorpost I think)..

[Randy_K]

Truck GVWR is 7,150 LBS. As for the tongue weight i think the point the dealer was making was that they can adjust it to be anything. He said they would set it all up at the mid point so it would work well with or without the bikes in the truck. < a 650# difference>. Before finding this forum i thought i only had to worry about the tow rating of my truck.

Randy

[SteveC7010]

Someone else just posed nearly the same question about WD hitches altering the payload capacity of a tow vehicle. Your dealer is wrong about zero tongue weight.

I just did a quick search on your truck and found a spec sheet with payload info. The number I found for a Super Crew with Long Bed, 4x4, 4.6L is 1,430 pounds payload. You have already committed about 1,100 or more to your basic camping load, and we still don't know the actual tongue weight of the trailer which is 99.99% guaranteed to be heavier than the manufacturer's guesstimate.

Payload has to include driver, passengers, gear, and fuel, plus the actual tongue weight of the trailer. So driver and one passenger are roughly 350#, full tank of fuel is probably 60 pounds or so, tongue weight is 590# (estimated - have to scale it to be sure). We've already used up more than half of the truck's max. payload. Now, we all carry gear in the tow vehicle. How much varies of course, but let's say you've got at least a few hundred pounds of firewood, tools, etc.

Do the math for yourself, but I am of the firm opinion that 650# of motorcycles will overload your truck by as much as 40% or more.

Just for comparison's sake, we signed the papers Monday for a 2012 Ford F250 Super Duty 4x4 PowerStroke Diesel with SuperCab and short bed. It has a payload rating of 3,490# and a max trailer weight of 16K#. The Cougar has a GVWR of just under 12K# and a pin weight a bit higher than 1,600#. I'll be towing with approximately 25% of the truck's ratings untouched.

[f6bits]

The “Tire and Loading Information” sticker on my door tells me my payload is 1297 lbs. Owners Manual states that is in addition to a full tank of gas.

With 650 lbs in the bed, that leaves me with 650 for people and the hitch. My truck wouldn’t be able to do that since your tongue weight is going to be 650 or so. My trailer’s tongue weight is about 750 lbs.

That 4600 lbs of your trailer is the low end of reality. Same goes with the 560 lbs of tongue weight. Add 10% to get a more realistic number. Loaded for a real trip, just call it a 5600 lb trailer with a 750 lb tongue weight.

[Randy_K]

Thanks for all the help guy's. It sure looks like my rig will be maxed out after all. I was thinking with the light trailer i would have lots of room to spare. When i bought my Truck two years ago i thought i might someday get a tent trailer.

Just to go to a new version of my truck with the trailer package and a 5.4 engine Ford wants in the range of $12,500 plus trade in. My truck has only 50,000 KM on it so that's not going to happen.

Randy

[f6bits]

The bikes in the bed is certainly the deal breaker. I know that many people here throw *some* stuff in the bed of the truck, but not many load the truck *and* pull a trailer.

Which trailer did you order?

[Randy_K]

Originally Posted by f6bits

The bikes in the bed is certainly the deal breaker. I know that many people here throw *some* stuff in the bed of the truck, but not many load the truck *and* pull a trailer.

Which trailer did you order?

We ordered the Keystone Passport 23rb

Struggling with what to do now.

Randy

[JRTJH]

When you take delivery of your new trailer, you'll have a better idea of just what you're really dealing with. My suggestion would be to not load the motorcycles the first few camping trips, and then once you've decided what's important to load and take camping, load up your RV as you do for a "normal camping trip" and on the way out of town, head to the local scales, weigh your truck front axle, rear axle, trailer axles (weighing both axles together is ok for this weight) and also weigh the total rig.

Once you have the weight on your front and rear truck axles, you can then determine what additional weight (if any) you can add to the cargo bed. You might find that you're too close to even load one motorcycle, or you may find that you have more than you expected and can take maybe one with you.

Don't let anyone tell you that adding Timbrens, air bags or air shocks will give you extra GVW, they can only help to keep the truck sitting level. Your Max Rear Axle Weight is probably going to be your limiting factor.

And as for the dealer's statement that they can "load up the torsion bars to 0 weight"... They may be able to "crank em up that high" but the way the weight distribution hitch works is to transfer the weight forward to the truck and rearward to the trailer. So you're still going to be carrying at least half that weight on the truck no matter what "magic" you do to the torsion bars. However, by unloading the rear axle and transferring more weight to the front axle of the truck, you will notice a definite "squirreliness" in your steering and handling. At highway speeds, that could easily become an uneasy or dangerous condition. It's best to set the hitch up so the truck returns to it's "pre trailer height" the way the hitch manufacturer suggests, not the "work around way" the dealer is advocating.

[fla-gypsy]

You just don't have the payload for the motorcycles. I know that is not what you wanted to hear.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by Randy_K

We ordered the Keystone Passport 23rb

Struggling with what to do now.

Randy

Randy -
IF you buy the Passport and IF you keep your present truck, then I would do the following:

1) load up the Passport with all the supplies and gear you would normally take camping, put the 2 MC's in the bed and go to a weigh scale as JRTJH suggested, get it weighed and then sit down and do the "weight math" with the resulting numbers.

2) decide how important it is that the MC's go camping with you. If you can leave them at home, go out and enjoy your time away then your "struggle" may be over. It's the old question about wants vs needs. If you want the Passport then you may have to give up on taking the MC's along.

3) forget about the dealer telling you that he can perform his "magic" allowing you to throw in the bikes and whatever else. Your truck is what it is - you can't do anything to it to increase its towing and carrying capacities. It isn't going to happen and his magic isn't going to work. He's in the business of selling RV's; his priorities are different from yours and he will most likely tell you anything in order to see you drive away pulling the Passport.

4) listen to what the previous posters are telling you. They are experienced and knowledgeable. Unless I've misread their posts, they are saying that having 2 MC's in the that truck bed makes for an unsafe and potentially dangerous towing situation for you, your family and others on the road.

It's your decision.

[Randy_K]

Now i have to find a way to fix this. Our dream trip is to go to Colorado and ride some of the Jeep trails and off road mountain passes on the bikes.

I had figured the payload was 1430 - the bikes at 350 = 1080. Tongue weight of the trailer is said to be 580 which i thought left me 500# to spare. The Ford dealer or trailer dealer never said that gas and passengers counted into the payload.

The TT was bought so we had a nice place to stay on Bike trips. The truck is almost new and i was told no problems when i bought both the truck and the TT. I just ordered 10 ply Cooper tires for the truck to be on the safe side.

The trailer is ordered and deposit made. There is no way i can afford to buy another new truck , not to mention a Super Duty is a big truck to use for around town the rest of the time.

Thanks for all the advice so far

Randy

[Festus2]

Randy -
As has been mentioned in all the posts, there isn't much you can do with the truck that will "fix" the problem you are facing. Even though you may not be able to afford a beefier TV, a larger short-bed truck wouldn't be that much more difficult to drive around town than your present long-bed F150.

If the Colorado and the off-road MC trips are a must, then what about renting a couple of bikes when you get there? OR .. leave your RV at home and stay in a motel?
I know these suggestions aren't what you have in mind but it is a comprimise of sorts. It seems to me that, in your situation, somewhere along the line you will have to comprimise if you want to do make this trip to Colorado.

[Javi]

Just a note... an F-250 SRW or even F-350 SRW is the same size as a comparatible F-150 as far as footprint goes.. A DRW is of course a little bigger at the rear fenders..