Hot and neutral

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 01:47 PM

I'm wanting to locate an easy access to a hot and neutral power supply that I can use as a main spot to add extra 12 volt.
Any ideas? I did a search but nothing tweaked my brain.

**hankpage** · 02-10-2014, 01:54 PM

I'm not sure what you are looking for. Where in your trailer do you want to put this outlet. (hot and neutral would be 110-120ac .. positive and negative or ground would be 12v dc) Both can be taken from the main power panel by the breakers and fuses.

Hank

**JRTJH** · 02-10-2014, 02:07 PM

My thought also... Is he talking about 120VAC or 12VDC?

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankpage

I'm not sure what you are looking for. Where in your trailer do you want to put this outlet. (hot and neutral would be 110-120ac .. positive and negative or ground would be 12v dc) Both can be taken from the main power panel by the breakers and fuses.

Hank

Yeah I meant DC, the 12 volt stuff

I'm wanting to run 12 volt from the breaker to the access under the stove and install a block there.
Waiting for the pic to mail to me..........

.........
From the pic you can see that I'm thinking that I have to slide the breaker box out but I'm thinking that's not going to work

Am I on the right track here?

Festus2 · 02-10-2014, 02:29 PM

Steve:
1) Do you want to install a 12v outlet? If so, where? Under the stove?
2) What do you mean when you say you want to "install a block there"? A "block"
3) Why would you need to slide the breaker box out? To get access to....?

You may well be "on the right track" but I'm not following you and am on a different one.

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festus2

Steve:
1) Do you want to install a 12v outlet? If so, where? Under the stove?
2) What do you mean when you say you want to "install a block there"? A "block"
3) Why would you need to slide the breaker box out? To get access to....?

Sorry - still not following you......

Hi Festus, what I mean by a block is like a mini breaker box like the kids install in their cars for 12 volt to supply the boom systems. Something that I run a main 12 volt from a free fuse and I can hook up other 12 volt items.
Yes I want it under the stove as it's easy access, there's drain holes that go below and I can run a wire through the H2O pipes that go to the outside stove to have a light.
The reason that I thought I might have to pull the box was that I can't see any other way of getting to the hydro.

CUFFS054 · 02-10-2014, 02:51 PM

Steve, something like a "sub-panel" in a house, yes?

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 02:51 PM

Here's a few more pics.
I want to have DC under the sink as there's room.
As you can see there's no access to the fuse box from under the fridge.
BTW can I send pics directly from my phone or my camera?

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CUFFS054

Steve, something like a "sub-panel" in a house, yes?

Exactly

FullTimer · 02-10-2014, 03:34 PM

Hi Steve, you'res is laid out like mine. Here's what I had to do to run extra 12 volt for the heating pads, located on the FW tank about 10 feet towards the front of the trailer (left) from the power center.
Notice the power center is divided into two sections, 120 volt, the breaker and 12 volts, the fuses. We want to avoid messing with the 120 volt wires or section.
Make sure there is a spare slot (fuse) or two in the 12 volt side of the power center. The only way you will be able to pull wires to the left,past the fridge to the sink area is kill all power, 120 and 12 volt. Unhook the battery also. You don't want ANY power in the trailer at all. Carefully remove the four power center mount screws, two on each side, gently tilt it forward (towards you) and outwards, but don't force it. Just gently nudge it. It doesn't have to come all the way out, just enough to reach the 12 volt wires feeding into it. This will give you access to the area behind and the rear wire routing strain relief's, where the 12 volt wires go through into the front of the power center.

Using something for a snake, snake you're wires through a hole from the power center, through underneath the fridge (heater passage will be easier) and on across towards the under sink area. Then after running wires, gently loosen the strain relief where the 12 volt wires pass into the power center. Very carefully, feed the new power wires in alongside the 12 volt existing wires (NOT 120 volt romex),and you should see them pop through to the front very near the fuses. Using an open fuse location, slide the new wire into the 12 volt open wire lug, directly below an open fuse spot, tighten snugly. DO NOT install a fuse until the whole new 12 volt system is wired in to whatever you need powered. Reinstall the power center by gently rotating in and reinstalling the four mounting screws.

Remember you need a good ground, negative, for the circuit to work. I installed a ground wire to the under sink area, ran it down with the fill pipe and FW tank supply, and drilled and attached to the frame. I also used the same ground for the pads and the illuminated switches. The battery negative is grounded at the front of the trailer, so the frame makes a great ground.

Remember to size the right fuse for the application, if you will only need 3 amps, install a 5 amp fuse, if you need 6 amps, install a 10 amp.

Now the disclaimer, I can't be responsible for any adverse effects of not doing this properly.

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 04:06 PM

Thanks Fulltimer, I had a feeling I was going to have to pull the breaker/fuse box out a little bit.
Is there no 12 volt ground in there somewhere as I would rather not run a ground back to the frame.

FullTimer · 02-10-2014, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve S

Thanks Fulltimer, I had a feeling I was going to have to pull the breaker/fuse box out a little bit.
Is there no 12 volt ground in there somewhere as I would rather not run a ground back to the frame.

The only ground I found on mine was the power feed from the converter for the ground of the 12 volt system, right next to the fuses. The lug had no room to double tap one in, so I I went underneath to the frame. Plus I wanted to avoid messing with convertor wires. The thing about trailers are most appliances, 12 volt, are grounded somewhere close by the device to a ground. So really there isn't any good ground single connection for the extra wiring.

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullTimer

The only ground I found on mine was the power feed from the converter for the ground of the 12 volt system, right next to the fuses. The lug had no room to double tap one in, so I I went underneath to the frame. Plus I wanted to avoid messing with convertor wires. The thing about trailers are most appliances, 12 volt, are grounded somewhere close by the device to a ground. So really there isn't any good ground single connection for the extra wiring.

Yeah good thinking, the 12 volt ground should be located close.
Like you I'll pass on grounding to the converter as it has it's own job to do and I'll leave it at that.
I'm thinking as I slipped back in to work mode and it'll be dark soon this'll be a tomorrow job.
Thanks for the detailed advice!

FullTimer · 02-10-2014, 04:23 PM

You are most welcome. Take you're time and make sure this is done right

.

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 05:28 PM

Yup, as I always tell my guys, be like a doctor, measure twice and cut once

**hankpage** · 02-10-2014, 06:46 PM

I'm just thinking out loud .... Can you access the back of the power center from the top by removing the drawer above it?????

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankpage

I'm just thinking out loud .... Can you access the back of the power center from the top by removing the drawer above it?????

Now that's some great thinking and yes there's access!

Now which wires should I be looking for

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 07:28 PM

K it looks like there's a grounding bar and I'm going to assume that I can run the negative to that

The 120 is obvious so I'll stay away from that.
The 12 volt is to the right, so it's just a matter of finding the right constant live wire or pull the works and hook to the to the open fuse at the panel.

**hankpage** · 02-10-2014, 07:32 PM

Open the front of the panel .. there should be fuses either missing or marked "SPARE". If the panel is prewired you will have to trace the wire to where it exits the panel and terminates. If it is not prewired you will have to fish a wire in and connect it to the spare terminal. Best if you do this with shore and battery power disconnected. (Battery disconnect switch will NOT cut all power, you will need to physically remove Positive battery cable) Be sure to use the correct size wire and fuse it for the load and rating for the "Block". Good luck and a picture is worth a 1000 words, Hank ...... Be careful ...

While in there tighten all connections .. they are known to be left or come loose in travel

Steve S · 02-10-2014, 08:00 PM

Thanks hankpage

I'm going to unhook shore hydro and the batts and tackle this tomorrow.
There's two spare fuse plug ins so I'll hook the tester to them tomorrow and find the wire in the back. I'm thinking that I'll pull the whole thing out the way that Fulltime described. Having the elbow room above sure is going to help!
Yup, pics sure do help! My guys text me pics when they're not sure of codes and it sure saves me a lot of drive time.

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