Thank you Polar Package!

Steve S · 02-04-2014, 08:25 AM

Well it was after buying the TT that I found out that the Polar Package was B.S!
I woke up to the pipes being frozen, no hot or cold water except for the cold in the bedroom sink.
It's only -5 with a chill of -10 so it's really not that cold! The good thing is that we were expecting the cold snap so I made sure my water tank was full to lessen the chance of that freezing.
So I wonder if Keystone ever tested their wonderful Polar Package and what did they consider cold to be?

**JRTJH** · 02-04-2014, 08:36 AM

The Cougar now comes with the Polar Package Plus. Here's the description for it:

Polar package plus
Cougar has been zero degree tested. The Polar Package Plus allows you to camp to zero degrees without worry of your tanks or water lines freezing up. We also add upgraded insulation to our slide-out floors to control the hot and cold exchange and unlike our competition we merge our skirt metal to the I-Beam for complete enclosure of your fifth wheel underbelly.

The illustration in the ad shows a thermometer with a "current reading" of 2*F.

If the "upgraded" "PLUS" package only protects to zero, the "polar package" probably won't protect even that low. I've heard reference to 20* F, and also to "Below 32" but haven't seen any specific guarantee of any "cold temperature protection" studies or guarantees.

If you do a forum search for "Polar Package" you'll see that everyone pretty much feels it's a marketing scheme with no real protection features that make true cold weather camping a reality.

Festus2 · 02-04-2014, 08:43 AM

Steve -
Sorry to hear about your frozen water lines but the Polar Package being "BS" is not exactly breaking "news". As a full-timer, unless you took steps to enable your Cougar to get through all 4 seasons - including the occasional short spell of a few days of freezing temperatures - these kinds of things will unfortunately happen.

Too late now but you might want to consider adding skirting, additional insulation in the underbelly, providing some kind of "heat" in the skirted area or storage compartments, wrapping external pipes/water supply lines with foam pipe insulation or heat wrap, etc., to prevent this from happening again.

It is supposed to stay cold and get even colder over the next day or two and then "warm up".

Steve S · 02-04-2014, 09:03 AM

I have all the lines that I installed wrapped and these are all doing fine.
I thought about skirting but I have hedges on the windy side blocking the wind and my shop on the other side. I'm not really too concerned about things as I make coffee the night before and I'll just leave the kitchen taps open until it warms up a bit and they thaw.
The main thing is that my propane fix worked great and I'm not freezing.

Steve S · 02-04-2014, 09:33 AM

Here's a pic of the wind break on one side.
Also a pick of my gray water drain insulated, it's temp till I build a trap for anything that goes down the drain.
Also a pick of my poor little TD that's freezing too.

Western Traveler · 02-04-2014, 10:40 AM

I have a 2014 with Polar Package Plus. Saw all the ads and talked to the Keystone Rep at the Pamona RV show. He assured me it was tested to 0'F.
I also saw some stuff online that the Half Ton Series was testing better insulation standards this year.
Of course -5 is not 0 and yes a higher temperature floor likely do to wind chill etc. though yours looks sheltered.
We camped in 34-35' F in January and I expected the furnace to run pretty much continually. That was not the case as it would come on run for a bit and be off for 1 1/2 to 2 hours at 68' thermostat setting, Sometimes longer.
Obviously things can change drastically another 30' colder.
I kept meaning to drop the bottom panel to look at what is under there and if it is actually different now but will have to wait till I return to the Mainland.
Wondering if anyone has had this Polar Package Plus in extreme WX (0'F and up) without winterizing.

Steve S · 02-04-2014, 10:46 AM

That's interesting about your furnace not kicking on and running when it got colder.
I was up till 3 am and I noticed the same thing with the furnace. The colder it got the less the furnace cycled and it stayed really warm in here.

superdog404 · 02-04-2014, 11:19 AM

We just bought a 2013 Cougar 318sab in Nov. of 2013 new. We live in so. California. We bought it in Michigan and went to Ontario Canada to visit relatives. It was usually around 20 F most of the time. The trailer did very well. Used a lot of propane but nothing froze. Coming across I80 first part of Dec. was a whole different story. We were in -20 to -30's most of the way back. The fresh water tank froze almost instantly along with the water lines. We used a 5 gallon plastic water container for coffee etc. We used the fireplace and a ceramic heater most of the time so the duct into the basement wasn't being used much so I guess that didn't help the freezing problem. The polar package plus does seem to work some. Comparing to our 2000 Fleetwood Wilderness we would have froze to death I am almost sure.
WILL NEVER GO EAST IN THE WINTER AGAIN!!!

FullTimer · 02-04-2014, 03:05 PM

I noticed a few years ago, the more it snows, the more insulated the trailer is. I always enjoy the dead quiet when there is a foot of snow. But when the wind is ripping, that's what gets you. It will find every nook and cranny in one...I was watching a vid the other day, where there was some intrepid young souls winter camping. They took snow and shoveled a wall around the underside of the trailer, for skirting.

GaryWT · 02-04-2014, 04:35 PM

Never paid too much attention but figured the polar package was good for 30 degrees and if lucky down to 20 degrees. I was told it just blows a little warm heat below the floor towards the holding tanks. Of course that does not mean the valves will not freeze shut.

tdawg · 02-04-2014, 06:39 PM

we have been down in the teens with our 2013 Alpine with no problems and without any mods.

Steve S · 02-04-2014, 06:49 PM

Well I got home and the hot water pipes are still frozen but one cold water tap is still working, guess I better do something about this.
So boys, where do I start?
Cold water in the bedroom sink, no hot. No cold or hot in the shower or the kitchen sink. Water pump works fine and fresh tank not frozen.

2010 Cougar tt.

Steve S · 02-05-2014, 07:50 AM

Anyone

I really need to wash my dishes guys

FullTimer · 02-05-2014, 08:09 AM

Lol, you need heat, lots of it. You should have one or two little space heaters, open the cabinets and place heaters near lines. You can also resort to the wife's hairdryer, for any spots that may be frozen. I would look for anywhere the lines dip under the trailer or where they route near the walls under the cabinets. You might even see outside frost on the spots where water is frozen inside the lines.

Festus2 · 02-05-2014, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve S

Anyone

I really need to wash my dishes guys

Boil some water in a kettle on your stove????

Steve S · 02-05-2014, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festus2

Boil some water in a kettle on your stove????

Great idea

Actually bad idea, no water

Steve S · 02-05-2014, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullTimer

Lol, you need heat, lots of it. You should have one or two little space heaters, open the cabinets and place heaters near lines. You can also resort to the wife's hairdryer, for any spots that may be frozen. I would look for anywhere the lines dip under the trailer or where they route near the walls under the cabinets. You might even see outside frost on the spots where water is frozen inside the lines.

Thanks, yes I've read about the pipes freezing under the cabinets and I'll check on that soon.
I'm going to pull the wonderful thermal (not) plastic underneath today and look for the low pipes. Should I start near the water heater first?
I'm going to buy those grey insulated pipes like in the pic this morning. Do you guys think that this stuff will work the best?
I don't want to buy the electric tape as I want to stay away from having to rely on shore power.

Festus2 · 02-05-2014, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve S

Great idea

Actually bad idea, no water

Here's another bad idea ----- To tide you over until you get your water lines unfrozen, take a drive to wherever and pick up a few jugs of water.

Steve S · 02-05-2014, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festus2

Here's another bad idea ----- To tide you over until you get your water lines unfrozen, take a drive to wherever and pick up a few jugs of water.

I was smart last night and filled up some empty water cooler jugs so I do have water

But @ -2 right now they're starting to look a little frosty

FullTimer · 02-05-2014, 09:32 AM

Lol, I keep extra 2 gallon Ozarka water's around for emergencies. I would start at the faucets closest to the city water inlet. First, make sure the city water connector and or hose isn't frozen. Then go the closest faucet and backtrack the lines to see what the deal is. Remembering, all it takes is a water line laying against a frame rail, a super cold wall, etc to freeze it. Look for ANY air leaks in the under carriage cover and close by water lines. ANY openings in the frame or cover will let tons of air in.

The gray pipe insulation helps, by lowering line exposure to the cold air. BUT again, there is no replacement for some heat. Take for example, I have known alot of people that will put a small heater in the basement of their 5th wheels, to keep lines from freezing. I won't say whether I would do this to one like you'res, (liability issues) but I would be tempted...

ETA be aware, there is a possibility that when a line thaws it will start leaking....So be prepared to kill the water to the trailer during all this.

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