Upsizing axles...

[wegone]

My trailer has been sitting 3 weeks at CW regarding my axles.
Last I heard was that it needed new axles and other stuff.

Sorry, don't mean to be vague, the conversation was hurried, and answers were not readily available from the tech, I was talking to a supervisor, who was looking into the matter, and our extended warranty, etc.

It's been frustrating to say the least.

My gut feeling is I think best case scenario is they replace it, and I am thinking I'll be saddled again with the same minimal axles, that failed already.

My questions guys is should I just go get my trailer and take it to a private trailer repair shop, and have a better axle installed?

I have 3500's on there now, and that just seems to be too small, if you tally everything up, and take into account the bumping strain roads can have by adding more stress.

This is my trailer, and the data, etc.

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2019-...5rbiwe-tr38196

I have thought about going a little smaller, but we love this floor plan and opposing slides, it really gives us room, and overall, we want to keep it.

Since I will be paying for it out of my pocket, what might I expect to pay, anybody have any idea?

I need to decide this week, we have half a dozen trips already booked.


THANKS guys

[chuckster57]

If the repair is on your dime, get the heavier axles and be done. If it’s warranty, ask about paying the difference in parts, labor should be the same either way.

[wegone]

Yes, that would be an option, but I am kind of concerned about their workmanship, etc.
I have been given lots of run-around, etc.
I understand that the workforce has been an issue since the virus.
It has taken me 9 months just to get them to look at it, and I am still no closer to understanding the "fix" that when I called them on the road after having a passerby in another vehicle flag me down.
To my untrained eyes, other than inside tire wear on both tires rear axle, I can't see anything.
I do notice a slight smile in the axle when looking from the back under it.
And in curves, the rear wheels really toe out, going "into" the turn, but I was told with spread axles that is sort of normal.

Arg.

Thanks for the reply.

[JRTJH]

I ran into a "roadblock" at a local RV dealership last fall. I am changing my 5200 pound axles (derated to 4400 pounds) and installing 6000 pound axles. Both have the same size axle beam, same size 15" hubs, same size brakes and use the same size tires and wheels with the same hub 6 lug pattern. That dealer, a Keystone dealership, could not get Dexter axles in a timely manner, so they contacted Keystone to have them ship the axles (which are sitting outside every fifth wheel plant in Goshen)... Keystone refused to ship the axles to an "authorized dealership" for installation on a trailer not designated for that size axles. In other words, the factory would not approve installing upgraded axles on my Cougar model and would not ship the axles to the dealership....

Your trailer, with 3500 pound axles likely has 5 lug 15" wheels. I don't believe that hub configuration is available on the next larger size axle rating, which is the 5200 pound axle.

So, not only might you run into the same resistance from Keystone, you may also have problems trying to upgrade to the larger 5200 pound axle beams unless you also change out your 5 lug hubs, 5 lug wheels as well.

Do some homework, but realize that Keystone is likely going to be the same "roadblock" to your axle upgrade as they were for mine.... So, I ordered my axles from an independent supplier, had them built to my spindle width, spring hanger perch measurements and I'm installing them myself. You may have to find an "independent axle shop" to do the work and it likely won't be associated with any "approved warranty".....

I hope you have better luck than I did, but don't hold your breath.....

ADDED: I don't believe 3500 pound axles are available with 6 lug hubs (so your wheels are 5 lug wheels) and I don't believe 5200 pound axles are available with 5 lug hubs (all of them are 6 lug configuration), so I don't believe your current wheels will fit any "upgraded axle" heavier than your current 3500 pound 5 lug configuration. You're going to be faced with more than an "axle upgrade" since you'll also need new wheels and most installers probably won't install the OEM LRC tires, but will require you to also buy Load Range E tires so the tire capacity matches the axle rating. 5200 pound axle and 2830 pound tire rating (5660 for both tires on the axle beam)

[wegone]

I think you are right.
My 5 lugs seem to be maxed at 3.5k.
Everything else jumps up to 6 lugs.

I talked to a guy already who seemed straight talking, owned his own shop.
Said he did a lot of these upgrades, but could not tell me exactly what I need until he could measure, etc.

Told me to bring it by and do a bearing and axle service for 250, if everything was good.
If not, then he'd give me a price.

I'm leaning that way, right now, even the extended warranty "excludes" bent axles if they deem them bent for overloading, road hazard, etc.

Might be one of those things you just bite the bullet (pun intended) and upgrade for my OWN piece of mind.

Thanks !

[sourdough]

Ed upgrading as you are considering makes one think that's for sure. I recently replaced my axles, springs, brakes (disc), added crossmember supports and more. It was not an easy decision to make and cost a lot of money. The primary consideration for me was the fact that due to any number of considerations (I won't go to a dually/weight etc.) including the safety factor. I figure this will be my last trailer. With that in mind the upgrade was a natural. The benefits of all those things, including just the peace of mind, is immeasurable.

If you think you are going to be trading trailers soon, or often, think through the process and cost. If you are going to move to another trailer in the future will you be wanting to do this again? If so, think about it. If this is "it" make the move. The peace of mind is a reality and worth it "to me". I can't speak for anyone else or where they are in their RV ownership but it was a good thing for us.

[CWtheMan]

IMO, in some way you've exceeded a weakest link. For axels that are not showing some sort of road hazard damage the next culprit is excessive weight.

You need to wonder just how close you are to damaging the next weakest link?

Recertification of the vehicles GVWR/GAWRs can only be done by the trailer builder or a certified vehicle modifier.

[wegone]

Been pounding away this evening trying to gather as much info as I can on the matter.

Sourdough's reasoning seems to be the thought many hold, but what CW says the suspension is just one part of what you can carry, the frame itself is part of that equation and beefing up the suspension won't improve the frames capacity at all, of course, makes sense.

Also, don't know if this is a piece of the puzzle, but this model is nowhere to be had anymore at Keystone.

It's still listed at the website, as a model in 2022, but when you click on the link to get more info, etc, it gives you a different prompt, and no info.
It's the only model that I can tell it happens.

Maybe the double slides have something to do with it, or?????

Also, as I was at the computer, I got a return email from them, it was after 9pm, that he returned from an earlier email of mine...WOW.

He said he submitted the request today for the warranty but needs pricing on the axles, I guess from the supplier, and he said the springs were flat, which caused the axles to bend, etc.

This trailer has lots of cabinets, they are nowhere near full, I have never even filled my water tank. Just no way I overloaded it. Not unless their ratings are wrong, and it's more like a 500-pound payload.

I hope it works out, that I just got some iffy components that caused it, other than that, the trailer has been great, we get lots of compliments on it.
We want to keep it forever, at this point in time.

Again, thanks guys, your support helps!

[Northofu1]

Hi Eddie,
I had a 2015 Bullet 26 RBPR with the wide stance 3500 lb axles, mono leaf springs, oem shackles and bolts, and LRC tires. After reading threads on the forum I automatically replaced the tires with Carlisle LRD. Trailer seemed to tow fine until one of the leaf springs sheared in half on a trip. I tried to find quick replacements, no luck. This is what worried me.
Had them ordered to a dealer in Ohio and had them add the hd wet bolt kit as well as the springs. Went on a trip after hauling it home, pulled nicely. Didn't want to wait to see what happened next, so I got rid of it. The GVWR of the trailer was 7500 lbs so the axles seemed adequate to me. On this current trailer I have similar axles to John, the AL-KO 4400 lb for a trailer that has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs.

I know tongue and pin weight are not the same, but the challenge /obstacles to upgrade axles are the same. New wheels / tires/ springs/ cross members, etc.
How much time, energy, and money do you put into a trailer to make it seem safe to yourself. This, along with a no walk roof, and other issues with the trailer made me upgrade to something more solid. In the next couple of years If I still own this trailer I will seriously look into new springs and axles but I would just go with the model they came with.
Keep it simple, keep it safe. JM2CW Good luck to you.

[gearhead]

Here's some more info for you:
https://performancetrailerbraking.com/axles-suspension

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

Been pounding away this evening trying to gather as much info as I can on the matter.

Sourdough's reasoning seems to be the thought many hold, but what CW says the suspension is just one part of what you can carry, the frame itself is part of that equation and beefing up the suspension won't improve the frames capacity at all, of course, makes sense.

Also, don't know if this is a piece of the puzzle, but this model is nowhere to be had anymore at Keystone.

It's still listed at the website, as a model in 2022, but when you click on the link to get more info, etc, it gives you a different prompt, and no info.
It's the only model that I can tell it happens.

Maybe the double slides have something to do with it, or?????

Also, as I was at the computer, I got a return email from them, it was after 9pm, that he returned from an earlier email of mine...WOW.

He said he submitted the request today for the warranty but needs pricing on the axles, I guess from the supplier, and he said the springs were flat, which caused the axles to bend, etc.

This trailer has lots of cabinets, they are nowhere near full, I have never even filled my water tank. Just no way I overloaded it. Not unless their ratings are wrong, and it's more like a 500-pound payload.

I hope it works out, that I just got some iffy components that caused it, other than that, the trailer has been great, we get lots of compliments on it.
We want to keep it forever, at this point in time.

Again, thanks guys, your support helps!

^^^^You need to know what you're trying to accomplish. Upgrading the suspension so you can carry more weight is a complete conversation unto itself. That conversation brings a lot of other aspects for consideration. As CW said it also requires "special modifiers". You need to know where you stand (scale) weightwise if this is a consideration. For me, if it was I'd buy a different trailer.

In my case I am not overweight, about 1300 under gvwr. My rationale is simply that I KNOW the components used on any RV are the least the manufacturer can get away with. I was not comfortable with that with a trailer I intended to keep long term. The axles, shackles, spring hangers etc. take a whale of a beating when you are traveling or maneuvering the trailer. I wanted to strengthen those for long term use as well as safety, I wasn't worried about carrying weight.

[JRTJH]

There's a current thread in the fifth wheel section of the forum just posted in the last couple of days by a member who has "twisted frame rails" on his toyhauler. He had previous "suspension issues", a broken shackle, upgraded to heavier tires and now has been told his "frame rails are twisted and can't be repaired"... https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=50465

The reason I'm bringing this thread into the conversation is to support Danny's concerns about why he upgraded his axles/brakes. Upgrades are great, but the entire trailer needs to be considered and as CW mentioned, "recertification can only be done by the manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier"...

BUT... any one of us can "wing it and stuff mods onto a trailer"... Sometimes they work, sometimes they just move the weakest link to a "MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE COMPONENT" or, as in the case of the twisted frame above, they can make the trailer a total loss by damaging a part that can't be repaired....

I had some long, interesting and very educational conversations with one of the engineers at Performance Braking last fall and he identified a number of "potential pitfalls" I'd face by upgrading my axles. We changed, added, subtracted parts to the modification that went well beyond "just upgrading the axle beams" so that my trailer will be stronger, without moving the weakest link to some "unknown location"....

Think through the upgrade and you'll be OK. Just stuff two heavier axles under your trailer and you may wind up making things worse.....

I'm not suggesting "don't upgrade the axles".. I'm suggesting, "If you upgrade the axles, do it right and upgrade everything you need to upgrade so you don't just move the problem to another component.....

[gearhead]

^^What we at work called "Management of Change". Jeez I hated to go before the Change Committee to justify a change I wanted to make. But, it was enlightening. No matter how small a change I wanted to make those Engineers that I thought were dumber than a rock would come up with an issue that would make me think. It was a good thing. It kept me from "going cowboy" as my boss lady used to say.
So gather all the information you can, then gather some more.
What if, what if, what if....

[Javi]

If I planned on keeping the trailer for five or more years and planned on traveling several thousand miles each year; then I'd call Performance Trailer Braking and get them to recommend a set of axles, springs and disc brakes for it... then I'd listen to Mike and let him tell me what I need to do..

I did, and I couldn't be happier..

[wegone]

Thanks all, appreciate all the good advice.

Hopefully I will be well educated and can make the best, most informed decision, when I have all the options in front of me.

It's easy to look at all the what if, and negatives, when the ball is in your court, but I must keep in in mind that there are many, many units on the road, as built, and maintained, than those sitting in repair facilities.

Got to try and keep the emotions at bay, and think realistic to our needs, and only after I have all the information gathered.

We do love trailering, that is fact.
We don't need bigger, that is fact.
Could always do smaller, but that is a guess....
Would cramp, take the fun outta camp?
I dunno.
We love state parks, and at 30 feet total, I have already been in some tight spots.
So smaller is an option that might prove beneficial, if it come to that.

Thanks again everyone, happy trailering

[Northofu1]

Or you could stick with what you have. Get the axles fixed/replaced, make sure tires, brakes, bearings are in top shape, and add an hd shackle and wet bolt kit and just enjoy it.

[wegone]

Not a good picture, and the ground was a little uneven, but I took this shot under the trailer after a guy first called my attention to the issue while towing to the campground.

Does that leaf spring look flat?

[Northofu1]

How old is your trailer?
Have you scaled it to know exactly what it weighs loaded?
Hard to tell with that picture

[wegone]

It's a 2019
I attached a link in the original question to the exact model.

No, I have never scaled it.
If it's over, it's not because of what I have in it. I am pretty certain our clothes and dishes, towels, and staples (food) and a few hand tools in the front storage could not be the culprit.
I know folks have shared about how fast that stuff loads up.
I am pretty good at guessing, as I have a 20 foot cuddy cabin boat that I make certain to load correctly for trips.

I will scale it however when I get it back.

[Northofu1]

I would scale it to see exactly what the weights are. It takes the guess work out of the equation.