Should I buy this?

Akira · 07-21-2021, 05:41 PM

Hello I am going to look at this 2010 Keystone Passport 300 bh. I did a video chat and it looks great but I have read different opinions online about if this is delamination or not. I asked the owners about it and they said it was from the sun and not water. It had no water damage. I am just worried if I should buy this or not. If it truly is just cosmetic or if it is serious damage under and not worth it. Can anyone help me. I am a first time buyer and do not know much about campers. I know with a 2010 it's going to have some issues. I do not mind minor but not something that is serious and possibly has black mold or rotting.

**chuckster57** · 07-21-2021, 06:27 PM

Welcome to the forum

I’m not going to say either way, since I’m not there in person to inspect the front/rear walls. I would spend some time inside opening up cabinets and such looking for ANY signs of water intrusion or attempts to cover it up.

roadglide · 07-21-2021, 07:16 PM

Welcome to the Fourms. The Nada dealer pricing is $3700, that looks terrible I agree with Chuck thorough inspection. I think it’s delaminated from water entering tail light seal or the bottom of the window . The front is difficult to tell maybe where the cap meets rubber roofing. I suppose they could have replaced the decals. I seriously doubt it’s from the sun or the decals would be faded and cracked .

Ken / Claudia · 07-21-2021, 07:59 PM

The front of my listed trailer looks as bad and it is from the sun. When it's parked at home it faces the sun. But water damage can look the same on the outside.
A RV dealer nearby had the same year of Cougar as mine with a brand new front. I asked about it for the repair cost. He said 5,000 dollars parts and labor back in Feb. or March. It was also due to sun damage, the RV owner is a government agency. I found it odd that they would spend that size of money to fix a 6 or 7 year old RV vs getting a new one.

LHaven · 07-21-2021, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

the RV owner is a government agency. I found it odd that they would spend that size of money to fix a 6 or 7 year old RV vs getting a new one.

Government budgeting is a fantasyland all its own. If your "new stuff" budget is sucking air, but your "maintain stuff" budget has plenty left, guess what you do? Even if it's entirely the wrong decision.

Northofu1 · 07-21-2021, 11:47 PM

Operating budget is easier to spend than capital budget.

notanlines · 07-22-2021, 12:55 AM

Looking even further down the road, if you (and the rest of us) are wary about this now, how are prospective buyers going to view it four years from now when you try to sell it? I just don't want to buy something that would irritate me every time I looked at it.

**sourdough** · 07-22-2021, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notanlines

Looking even further down the road, if you (and the rest of us) are wary about this now, how are prospective buyers going to view it four years from now when you try to sell it? I just don't want to buy something that would irritate me every time I looked at it.

^^^^And this would be my thought. Don't know if that is caused from heat or water but either way it won't fix itself and will only get worse.

**JRTJH** · 07-22-2021, 08:12 AM

I suppose a lot of thought (and computations) should go into the decision to buy/not buy a trailer in this condition.

First, looking at the photos posted, the front decals are "significantly worn/sun bleached/faded". That's an indication to me that the trailer has been subjected to extreme sunlight and probably extreme heat. So, the owner's statement that it's "sun damage with no water damage" may be accurate.

On the other hand, just because a trailer sat in the sun and has "sun damaged decals and buckled FILON" doesn't mean it won't also have water damage....

So, a thorough inspection for water intrusion along the interior front wall/ceiling area is definitely appropriate. I'd look for any water stains, luan ply separation, ballooned vinyl "contact paper" separation and any swollen/warped trim pieces. Follow any cupboards/closets from the top to the bottom, especially in the back corners inside the shirt closets in that area. If you don't see any evidence of water damage, then climb on the roof and verify that the sealant is in good condition. If there is no reason to believe there's water damage based on that inspection, I'd feel confident that it's "sun damage only"....

Now, comes the difficult part. If there's no water damage, the trailer is "ugly but serviceable". Does the price reflect the "ugliness" ??? If so, it may be a great buy if the rest of the trailer is in good condition. On the other hand, if the tires are old, if the bearings have never been serviced, if there are other factors to reduce the value, then they must also be considered.

If the trailer is in "great condition" except for the front/rear FILON panels, and if the price reflects a reduction to offset those panels, I'd buy it. On the other hand, if it's an "average condition trailer with buckled front and rear panels" and there is no reduction in price because of that damage, then I'd keep looking.

Why? First, if you can buy an undamaged trailer for the same cost, then you're not getting "full value" for this one. Second, when you try to sell it, you'll find it much more difficult to sell for full value. Iin other words, you'll have depreciated value for damage that was present when you paid full value WITH THE DAMAGE PRESENT... So, as soon as you get the title, it'll be worth less than you paid for it. Not a good place to be with a 12 year old trailer.

If the owner is going to reduce the price and the trailer is otherwise in good condition, if the price reduction meets (or comes close to repair costs) then it may be a "good buy for a handyman".

Bottom line: Don't pay "top dollar" for a great trailer with obvious work required to make it a "top dollar trailer".

Akira · 07-22-2021, 01:05 PM

Thank you guys so much for your input! I will be looking in person this Saturday. I will take all your advise on what to look for. I didn't know if I was crazy for considering it. It is very nice on the inside from pictures and video chat. Said they replaced linoleum due to rip, no water damage or evidence of water in subfloor, new hot water tank, new tires, new led lighting, new awning, good ac, clear title, flex sealed roof, is listed for 13500.00 they seem like wonderful people. Has answered all my questions very open. I am a new buyer and new to campers so I know nothing about them. I was just reading so much online about the delamination and was very worrisome. I didn't know if there was anyway to know how to tell one way or the other. If it's just Sun and is a little ugly just in those spots and everything else works great then I'm fine with it. I know buying an older camper and not buying new is the chance you take. Just wanted some input from more experienced people that had an educated guess lol.

**JRTJH** · 07-22-2021, 01:25 PM

NADA guide pricing for a 2010 Passport 300BH in "good condition" is 12,300-14,800 (low retail to average retail) the list MSRP when it was new was $23,938. So, an asking price of $13,500 is about average for that trailer "in good condition" which means WITHOUT any of the FILON buckling issues.

Those prices are for the location around zip code 65711 and I'd suppose the prices "lag the economic influences" by 3 or 4 weeks, so they may be "very slightly lower than current conditions".....

https://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2010/...4110115/Values

LHaven · 07-22-2021, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If you don't see any evidence of water damage, then climb on the roof and verify that the sealant is in good condition.

It might be difficult for a buyer with zero trailer experience to make this judgment. If you have any friends who maintain their own trailers, you should bring them along.

**sourdough** · 07-22-2021, 03:56 PM

The buckling could very well be heat/sun generated. When doing a personal inspection be sure and look closely for any small stains on the wood/paneling etc. high/low and around windows. Pay attention to "musty" smells, soft floor and those kinds of things. Hopefully it is what you are looking for - and, offer less than their asking price IMO.

foldbak · 07-22-2021, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Hello I am going to look at this 2010 Keystone Passport 300 bh. I did a video chat and it looks great but I have read different opinions online about if this is delamination or not. I asked the owners about it and they said it was from the sun and not water. It had no water damage. I am just worried if I should buy this or not. If it truly is just cosmetic or if it is serious damage under and not worth it. Can anyone help me. I am a first time buyer and do not know much about campers. I know with a 2010 it's going to have some issues. I do not mind minor but not something that is serious and possibly has black mold or rotting.

Having been in this exact situation.....my suggestion is run! There is no way short of opening up this trailer to know whats going on. But if I had to guess water had a lot to do with it! Good luck.

Akira · 07-24-2021, 07:32 PM

So I wanted to update you guys. My family and I drove 4 hours one way to look at it because they said that there was absolutely no signs of water damage anywhere. That's why they were sure it was sun and not water. The entire front was soft on the outside. The storage passage through on the front was rotting, soft and cracking when I touched it. Inside on the inside of the closest by the queen bed was so thin that I thought I was going to put my hand through it. Several other places on the front had obvious water damage. The rest was in great shape. We didn't get it because they wouldn't go lower than 12000. I would have to completely replace the entire front and inside the closest and who knows what else. I was extremely upset they were not just honest with me when I asked if there was any water damage or signs of it. $150 later I'm back home with upset kids and no camper. They just kept saying how it had never leaked since they had it. Which might be true but it definitely had a huge leak before they got it. Anyways thank you all for your advice on what to check for. I have looked at several campers and used what you told me to inspect them. No luck in finding one yet that didn't have a good amount of water damage or issues that were not worth the price they were asking. Hopefully we will before summer is over.

**chuckster57** · 07-24-2021, 07:44 PM

Well worth the drive to find out it wasn’t what they said it was. We spent 3 years looking before we bought our current trailer. The kids will be much happier when you find the one and you can use it right away without worry.

**sourdough** · 07-24-2021, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

So I wanted to update you guys. My family and I drove 4 hours one way to look at it because they said that there was absolutely no signs of water damage anywhere. That's why they were sure it was sun and not water. The entire front was soft on the outside. The storage passage through on the front was rotting, soft and cracking when I touched it. Inside on the inside of the closest by the queen bed was so thin that I thought I was going to put my hand through it. Several other places on the front had obvious water damage. The rest was in great shape. We didn't get it because they wouldn't go lower than 12000. I would have to completely replace the entire front and inside the closest and who knows what else. I was extremely upset they were not just honest with me when I asked if there was any water damage or signs of it. $150 later I'm back home with upset kids and no camper. They just kept saying how it had never leaked since they had it. Which might be true but it definitely had a huge leak before they got it. Anyways thank you all for your advice on what to check for. I have looked at several campers and used what you told me to inspect them. No luck in finding one yet that didn't have a good amount of water damage or issues that were not worth the price they were asking. Hopefully we will before summer is over.

When I was younger, 6 decades ago, I expected that an individual that told me something was telling me the truth, and those that weren't were usually easily discernable. That is not the case today. Honesty, honor etc. are words long lost to many people. I no longer trust anyone, about anything unless I know them front side out.....and that's very few people...DW comes to mind.
Going forward don't get your hopes up on words spoken by someone you don't know until you vet them, these days you will generally be disappointed. Hoping you find the right trailer to fulfill your wishes.

**flybouy** · 07-25-2021, 05:19 AM

Lies and deceitful deeds are as old as Adam and Eve. Personally , seeing the photos, the asking price, and considering the distance to check it out I would have negotiated over the phone before taking a road trip. Not willing to negotiate at all on an over inflated asking price would have been a automatic pass for me.

I know the market is crazy now but don't let the desire to get a camper drive your descisions. The "bad guys" prey on people that get anxious at times like this. Be patient and the "right deal" will come, if not this season then wait untill next. In the intrim, have you considered renting a camper or a cabin?

rjniles · 07-29-2021, 07:16 AM

My 2008 195RB has those exact same ripples on the front. Never had any water damage or rot.

Ddaddyo · 07-29-2021, 07:36 AM

Two Words, Walk Away!

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