Bearings/brakes

[xrated]

Marshall.....no nerves struck.....just trying to clarify why a two year old trailer is about to receive it's first wheel bearing service/maint. It's had approx. a dozen trips on it in the two years.....which many folks will do in one year.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by xrated

Marshall.....no nerves struck.....just trying to clarify why a two year old trailer is about to receive it's first wheel bearing service/maint. It's had approx. a dozen trips on it in the two years.....which many folks will do in one year.

Believe me I know where you're coming from. Last year we got 3 trips in. The 2 previous years were IIRC were 3 trips over 2 years due to health issues. We booked this year far in advance and decided we are going as long as we're still conscious. So here we are at the end of a week long stay in Ocean City, MD. The DW 1 week after surgery with 12 staples in her side and me with a surgical boot from foot surgery but man it feels good to be here!

[Brentw]

Just purchased a 1 year old used tandem axle cargo trailer. Although I believed that the bearings should be okay, I just had to look and get the unknown out of the way before my first trip. When I removed the first 2 dust caps, a tablespoon of free water ran out out of the hub... what the !!!!!!
Found the rubber plugs for the dexter hubs had cracks in them and im guessing the PO was a bit enthusiastic with the pressure washer.
Glad I looked and averted an a eventually very bad day.

[skids]

Originally Posted by flybouy

(snip) So here we are at the end of a week long stay in Ocean City, MD. The DW 1 week after surgery with 12 staples in her side and me with a surgical boot from foot surgery but man it feels good to be here!

Yes! Fresh air and scenery is great for the positive attitude for healing.

[RVGator]

This is an unknown condition at this point. I made an appt with my local garage and they will be inspecting the brakes and at a minimum repacking the bearings. It’s late this week so will let you know how it looks after just over 2 years using it.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Brentw

Just purchased a 1 year old used tandem axle cargo trailer. Although I believed that the bearings should be okay, I just had to look and get the unknown out of the way before my first trip. When I removed the first 2 dust caps, a tablespoon of free water ran out out of the hub... what the !!!!!!
Found the rubber plugs for the dexter hubs had cracks in them and im guessing the PO was a bit enthusiastic with the pressure washer.
Glad I looked and averted an a eventually very bad day.

Brent I always check the rubber seals on my trailers as soon as I buy them. The last 2 had the Dexter rubber seals and the little center cone split. Looking at the rubber on them it looks like they must keep those things in some super heated warehouse and let them bake. I have a big bag of the rubber seals and the difference in the softness of the rubber between the new ones and what came on the trailer is very noticeable. I just pull them, throw them away and put new ones on.

[Marineman]

This is an interesting discussion. I have repacked more wheel bearings than I can count in my 45 years of wrenching. From heavy equipment to work trucks, forklifts, cars, trailers, etc.

I have a 4x8 utility trailer that I bought brand new in 1992. We used this trailer to move from California to Alaska and then back to Washington State where we live now. And this trailer was loaded to the gills, going down some of the toughest roads on the planet. The only time I repacked the bearings was right before we left in 1994. I still have the trailer and we use it all the time and the bearings are still good. And I do inspect them. I also used marine grade grease when I did repack them 27 years ago.

I did have a wheel bearing go out on me before, but it was on a boat trailer that was submerged in water every time we launched. I installed bearing buddies on the hub and never had a problem after that.

Now onto the subject of RV's. I bought a brand new Forest River Wildwood TT in 2007. I'm a stickler when it comes to maintenance so I kept a mechanical eye on everything with this unit. After 10 years, I never repacked the bearings once. And we went on trips all over the West Coast, going from Washington to Disneyland in Southern California. For years, we explored Washington, Oregon, and California and never had an issue with brakes or wheel bearings.

And now I'm reading that people are repacking wheel bearings every 12 months? I understand people doing this if they are full timers or they are hard on their equipment, like driving on gravel roads or bumpy terrain, but most people don't even put 5000 miles a year on their TT.

I've had a 2017 Keystone Cougar since it was brand new and the unit sails down the road like a dream and I haven't repacked the bearings. I also inspect the camper from front to back every year and before each trip.

Now let me say this; I do see a problem with TT's that are much longer than mine but with the same dual axle. Obviously, more pressure on those bearings is where I see a possible premature failure down the road. But this was something I considered when purchasing my RV's.

Honestly, I really think people read about someone having a bearing failure and suddenly the fear goes rampant on the internet. I would like to know, have any of you had a bearing fail? Do you know someone who has had a bearing fail? And if they did, what were the conditions? What actually happened?

And I've heard people mention that the grease was "Dry", and if that's the case, bearings do make a sound before they blow a gasket. They will whine and the wheel will become loose. I just grab the tire and give it a good shove back and forth before I go on a trip. I know just how much play there should be. I'm also a mirror junkie, checking both sides of my TT while going down the road.

[sourdough]

Yes, I've had a bearing fail and I've known people that had a bearing failure (dad).

Don't remember the conditions with his failure, just the constant harping about them as I started using/buying vehicles. My conditions were a 2 year old Jayco popup. Bought from my dad and he assured me the bearings were "OK" - they weren't apparently.

What actually happened on mine was the bearing froze then cut the spindle off the end of the axle (single axle). It was dark, the trailer fell to the ground on the passenger side and the wheel/tire went rolling off into the dark - in the middle of nowhere. NOT a good thing.

Check the bearings yearly? Absolutely. Why? Don't want a recurrence of that again with a large, heavy trailer.

You've had good luck and that's good. Not everyone is that lucky. If you are checking them yearly and they always look good that is one thing. If you are waiting for them to make a noise or to jack it up and see if there is play...that's gambling IMO. I can assure you I never heard a sound as the bearing cut through that spindle and it HAD to be making some kind of noise. But in the dark (or in the daytime), windows up, kids/DW talking, radio - you will not hear that and it will just happen. I've had a bearing go bad and replaced them prior to failure and you could just hear a "grinding" sort of sound from the wheel. Nothing you would ever hear from inside a closed vehicle.

With those givens it makes sense to pull them and look them over on a yearly basis. Much better than hoping or assuming everything is going to be OK and then it not be; in the worst place at the worst time. Easy enough to do and helps an owner stay "intimate" with their wheels, bearings, brakes and suspension system.

I don't think it's an internet thing because someone had a failure somewhere then there's some sort of panic and suddenly every one is phobic about checking their bearings needlessly. It's simply preventive maintenance and peace of mind. To each their own but I personally like those things.

[JRTJH]

Yes, I've had a bearing fail. In fact, we had just towed into a campground, were going "maybe 2-3 MPH" when the roadside rear wheel/hub/tire separated from the trailer. I caught it out of the corner of my eye in the mirror as it "wobbled" and I stopped while the wheel/hub/tire were still partly on the spindle. We had just been traveling 65-70MPH on I-75 just north of Detroit, in 4 lanes of southbound HEAVY traffic.

The outer bearing was destroyed, roller bearings were laying in the hub, on the ground around the axle. The cage was mangled beyond recognition, the spindle was scored and the brake backer plate/shoes and magnet were mangled beyond further use.

We had towed the trailer from Michigan to Las Vegas and back the month prior, no maintenance had been done on the trailer since we returned from that trip, so it was not a situation where "somebody did something"....

It was, IMO <not so humble> that it was "just time for that bearing to take a crap"... and it did, with no provocation, no rhyme nor reason. It had been working just fine for the last 5,000 miles and "chose that moment to self-destruct"...

So, yes, it does just happen.

Now, in your comments, you said, "The only time I repacked the bearings was right before we left in 1994. I still have the trailer and we use it all the time and the bearings are still good. And I do inspect them. I also used marine grade grease when I did repack them 27 years ago."

I'd ask this: Did you, 27 years ago, go to a parts store, ask for the cheapest Chinese bearing sets and the cheapest bearing grease available and then give that to the first "questionably skilled person you could find" and instruct them to repack the bearings on your trailer? If not, then you didn't "match the material quality or the maintenance reliabiltiy" of today's RV coming out of nearly any RV manufacturer's assembly plant....

What I'm saying is that we all will do a much better job than someone in a far away plant who is more concerned with what's for lunch than with quality work product. And, it's in anyone's best interest, if they don't KNOW the condition of their trailer bearings, to at least do a "first verification inspection" so they have a starting point for THEIR valuable investment.... YMMV

Added: Here's a couple of photos of what "can happen, unexpectedly". The trailer damage is "minimal" from about a 5-10' roll after separation. Had we been going 65-70MPH, it could have been significantly greater.

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Yes, I've had a bearing fail. In fact, we had just towed into a campground, were going "maybe 2-3 MPH" when the roadside rear wheel/hub/tire separated from the trailer. I caught it out of the corner of my eye in the mirror as it "wobbled" and I stopped while the wheel/hub/tire were still partly on the spindle. We had just been traveling 65-70MPH on I-75 just north of Detroit, in 4 lanes of southbound HEAVY traffic.

The outer bearing was destroyed, roller bearings were laying in the hub, on the ground around the axle. The cage was mangled beyond recognition, the spindle was scored and the brake backer plate/shoes and magnet were mangled beyond further use.

We had towed the trailer from Michigan to Las Vegas and back the month prior, no maintenance had been done on the trailer since we returned from that trip, so it was not a situation where "somebody did something"....

It was, IMO <not so humble> that it was "just time for that bearing to take a crap"... and it did, with no provocation, no rhyme nor reason. It had been working just fine for the last 5,000 miles and "chose that moment to self-destruct"...

So, yes, it does just happen.

Now, in your comments, you said, "The only time I repacked the bearings was right before we left in 1994. I still have the trailer and we use it all the time and the bearings are still good. And I do inspect them. I also used marine grade grease when I did repack them 27 years ago."

I'd ask this: Did you, 27 years ago, go to a parts store, ask for the cheapest Chinese bearing sets and the cheapest bearing grease available and then give that to the first "questionably skilled person you could find" and instruct them to repack the bearings on your trailer? If not, then you didn't "match the material quality or the maintenance reliabiltiy" of today's RV coming out of nearly any RV manufacturer's assembly plant....

What I'm saying is that we all will do a much better job than someone in a far away plant who is more concerned with what's for lunch than with quality work product. And, it's in anyone's best interest, if they don't KNOW the condition of their trailer bearings, to at least do a "first verification inspection" so they have a starting point for THEIR valuable investment.... YMMV

Added: Here's a couple of photos of what "can happen, unexpectedly". The trailer damage is "minimal" from about a 5-10' roll after separation. Had we been going 65-70MPH, it could have been significantly greater.

Now, your bearing failed, big time. But what were the ingredients that led to this failure? I'm curious, how long is your trailer? Were your trailer brakes adjusted correctly? Do you test your brakes to make sure they are synced with your truck brakes? Did moisture play a role in this failure? How loaded down was your unit? Had you been on any bad highways or driving in intense heat?

You make some very valid points. I'm not happy about all of the Chinese parts on my TT. With that being said, Dexter, who makes the bearing kits that are on these trailers have to meet specific industrial guidelines. I also Googled Dexter bearing reviews and they are excellent. Here's a link that answers this very question. I've also attached a link with Dexter bearing reviews. And Chinese parts are all over our pickups that tow our rigs.

https://www.etrailer.com/question-95733.html

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Bea...17123031107023

JRTJH, you just helped me troubleshoot my electrical problem with my slide out. After many hours of hard work and doing a ton of research I was able to fix my unit. I may not have gotten all the answers I was looking for, but I did get to the bottom of the problem for the most part.

IMO there is a reason your bearing failed. I believe there is something that caused this that may never be answered but that won't really solve the problem or put the blame where it needs to be.

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Yes, I've had a bearing fail and I've known people that had a bearing failure (dad).

Don't remember the conditions with his failure, just the constant harping about them as I started using/buying vehicles. My conditions were a 2 year old Jayco popup. Bought from my dad and he assured me the bearings were "OK" - they weren't apparently.

What actually happened on mine was the bearing froze then cut the spindle off the end of the axle (single axle). It was dark, the trailer fell to the ground on the passenger side and the wheel/tire went rolling off into the dark - in the middle of nowhere. NOT a good thing.

Check the bearings yearly? Absolutely. Why? Don't want a recurrence of that again with a large, heavy trailer.

You've had good luck and that's good. Not everyone is that lucky. If you are checking them yearly and they always look good that is one thing. If you are waiting for them to make a noise or to jack it up and see if there is play...that's gambling IMO. I can assure you I never heard a sound as the bearing cut through that spindle and it HAD to be making some kind of noise. But in the dark (or in the daytime), windows up, kids/DW talking, radio - you will not hear that and it will just happen. I've had a bearing go bad and replaced them prior to failure and you could just hear a "grinding" sort of sound from the wheel. Nothing you would ever hear from inside a closed vehicle.

With those givens it makes sense to pull them and look them over on a yearly basis. Much better than hoping or assuming everything is going to be OK and then it not be; in the worst place at the worst time. Easy enough to do and helps an owner stay "intimate" with their wheels, bearings, brakes and suspension system.

I don't think it's an internet thing because someone had a failure somewhere then there's some sort of panic and suddenly every one is phobic about checking their bearings needlessly. It's simply preventive maintenance and peace of mind. To each their own but I personally like those things.

Driving down the road is a gamble. We do it everyday. And we depend on companies to manufacture our machines so they are dependable in this complicated World of gadgets.

You call it luck, but I call it preventative maintenance. I do inspect my bearings. I do keep an eye out for any unusual signs that things might go wrong. This is why we've had so much fun in our RV for the last 14 years. Can something happen that we don't expect? Yes, even if we do everything we can to make sure things are in line.

But heading out onto the highway is always a risk. Think back to the 60's and 70's when cars weren't nearly as dependable as today. And towing an RV back then was quite the challenge. Now, we are living in a different age of technology that has made our lives easier and more reliable (in a sense).

Your bearing froze and cut off the axle. There was a reason for that. A reason that we should be able to find out. Bearing failure of that magnitude can mean your brakes became very HOT and purged all of the grease that was available to lubricate the bearing. I did read on another post where this happened to someone and it had nothing to do with a bad bearing.

I'm not saying my idea is correct, but I am saying there was a reason that your bearing became so hot it broke your spindle. Do you realize how hard it is to do that? Spindles are super hardened steal and breaking this component is very unusual. Most bearing failures leave the spindle in tact, like when my boat trailer bearing failed.

And I calculated my annual mileage that I put on my TT. We go camping 3-4 times a year and lately we haven't been doing any real long trips. In the last 4 years I've put about 4000 miles on my TT. Sorry, but I'm not going to repack my bearings every 12 months after only putting 1000 miles on my unit.

[sourdough]

I wouldn't repack my bearings every 1000 miles either but I run a lot more than that. No matter, I would look at them every couple of years, not 27 or whatever it was.

Yes, I know what a spindle is and what it is made of. At the time hadn't messed with one much but I got to carry it around all weekend (along with the axle), talk to multiple welding/axle shops....after they came out for me on a weekend when they were closed. Received a very quick, intense education on "spindles".

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I wouldn't repack my bearings every 1000 miles either but I run a lot more than that. No matter, I would look at them every couple of years, not 27 or whatever it was.

Yes, I know what a spindle is and what it is made of. At the time hadn't messed with one much but I got to carry it around all weekend (along with the axle), talk to multiple welding/axle shops....after they came out for me on a weekend when they were closed. Received a very quick, intense education on "spindles".

lol...I've only repacked the bearings on my 4x8 utility trailer one time, 27 years ago. Now keep in mind, this is not a TT, it's a utility trailer. And I do inspect the bearings. And I don't use it very often. Just a run to the dump a couple of times a year. But that grease still looks good and the wheels spin perfect. In fact, I still have some of that marine grease left. It's bad *** stuff.

And the manual reads, "Repack bearings every 12,000 miles or every year, whichever comes first". This is where the manual is dead wrong IMHO. And if someone follows this rule, to each his/her own.

[flybouy]

Wow, first time I've ever heard of of someone who supposedly wrenches on cars, etc. not support regular maintenance. FWIW, the majority of trailers that I've seen on the side of the road with a bearing failure are boats (I live within sight of the Cheasapeake Bay) and utility trailers. As a matter of fact, driving home from the ocean on Monday thru Deleware a PU dragging a utility trailer 3 cars ahead of my almost caused a major pile up on I95. Right bearing failed, wheel locked up and things went bad very quicly.

So you do you and even if I find dome of that good for 27 years grease I won't push my luck.

[gearhead]

I've never had a vehicle bearing failure.
With cars I never packed bearings except during brake jobs. Maybe 30-40,000 miles.
I had one near miss. Years ago I loaded the ATV up in the old home made 4X8 utility trailer to go duck hunting for the first time of the season. On the way back home it struck me that the trailer had sat in 4ft of flood water for a week. I got to thinking about those felt grease seals on the Checker taxi cab straight axle. Sweated bullets all the way home. The bearings were dry and growled when I spun the wheel but we made home.
I've done autopsies on a lot of bearings in refinery service. Our expected mean time between failure was 8 years. Back in the 1980's we converted most bearing housings from wet sump to oil mist. No bearings sitting in oil, just a light oil mist blowing in the bearing housing. I thought it would never work. It did. Most bearing failures were caused by poor installation or associated issues not primarily the bearing...foundation failures, poor alignment between driver/driven, process vibration, etc.
Anyway I don't repack annually, every 2 years.
I was talking to a guy recently that has a 5th like mine that hasn't looked at his bearings in 8 years.
I'm having disc brakes installed in July along with new Timken bearings. Hopefully the discs run a little cooler.

[Mikelff]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There was a Keystone recall a couple of years ago (2018) to check the hubs on several trailer lines. Seems the axles were built by the factory and shipped to Keystone "without inner bearing races installed on the spindles". They were installed on trailers, shipped to dealers and sold to customers who were towing them on the roads... So, it can happen.

It's a good idea for every owner to periodically check on recalls that might affect their RV. Keystone recently took down their "website recall listing"... But, it's still available here: http://keystonerv.avalamarketing.com/owners/recalls/

For the OP of this thread, wondering if he should check his hubs/bearings before a planned "long trip"... There are at least 20 "axle, hub or bearing recalls" on Keystone products within the last 10 years... That's not a "reassuring record" for any owner who has not verified that "the axles on my trailer are serviceable and I know their status"....

Just tried your link. It appears its o longer viable. FYI.

[Bigt47]

Yes always check the wheel bearing and brakes and all under pinning's at least once a year. I bought a 2015 Keystone Bullet Ultra Lite in August of 2014. Took it out on about five trips not more than 75 miles from home. Went to do the first annual inspection of the bearings and brakes and under pinning's, what did I find, the castle nut was not safety pinned and had worked its way loose the spindle. Needles to say the bearing races were, well lets just say they were unusable. Have never seen races that gulled before. Ordered new ones and lo and behold the darn things were made in CHINA. Long story short, MAINTENANCE and INSPECTIONS are NECESSARY regardless of how long or short your trips are.

P.S. Talked to dealer about this and he said, "Good ting you caught it!". Guess that when a new trailer comes in they do not do inspections, just sell.

[Marineman]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Wow, first time I've ever heard of of someone who supposedly wrenches on cars, etc. not support regular maintenance. FWIW, the majority of trailers that I've seen on the side of the road with a bearing failure are boats (I live within sight of the Cheasapeake Bay) and utility trailers. As a matter of fact, driving home from the ocean on Monday thru Deleware a PU dragging a utility trailer 3 cars ahead of my almost caused a major pile up on I95. Right bearing failed, wheel locked up and things went bad very quicly.

So you do you and even if I find dome of that good for 27 years grease I won't push my luck.

Uh, since when did I say I didn't support regular maintenance? I never said that, period. But I did say that I'm not going to repack my TT wheel bearings with only 4,000 miles on my unit. Go ahead, waste your time, money, and energy on a pointless task that quite frankly opens you up for more problems than your fixing. According to you, you want me to repack my bearings every 1000 miles. Sorry bud, I have better things to do.

And I did say, I check my wheel bearings to make sure they are greased and there is no play in any of the wheels. I also keep my tires properly inflated, I load my TT so it's balanced, and my pickup is in top condition, mechanically and physically. I also have the best hitch that money can buy.

I've also been RV'ing for 14 years and I've never taken my TT to a mechanic or shop to be fixed. I do all of my own repairs, adjustments, and maintenance. And this includes my pickup, which I've had for 13 years.

You probably didn't read my other post, where I mention that I had a boat trailer bearing go out on me. I didn't lose the wheel but I did find the problem on my maintenance check, where the wheel was loose when shaken. Why did it fail? Because of submerging that wheel in the water every time it was launched. I fixed the bearing and installed Bearing Buddies and no more issues.

As far as my utility trailer, and I'll say it again, I've inspected those bearings for the last 27 years. The wheel spins perfect, there is no play, and the grease still looks like new. I'm an expert mechanic and maintenance professional. That's why I'm questioning this unnecessary task that people think is required because some manual says to do it.

And I just got off the phone with my son who worked at a Cruise American RV outlet for 6 years. He was the number one dealer in the Nation and he received awards 3 years in a row. They also sold RV's and boats and had a service department. I told him that people are saying on this thread that you should repack your TT bearings every year.

He said, bull. He said maybe every 5 years or more often if you put a ton of miles on your unit. He also said that used boats that were traded in always needed their bearings repacked because of submerging the wheels in water.

[JRTJH]

In any "Pi**ing match" everybody is going to get wet....

As for "thenumber one RV dealership" I'd have to say, based on whose advertising office ??? I've seen at least 10 dealerships with that same claim. In fact, Keystone claims to be the number one RV manufacturer. So does Forest River, Jayco and Winnebago.... As for Number one automobile manufacturer, Ford, GMC, Chevrolet and Fiat/Chrysler all lay claim to that "cherished number one spot"...

So much for "The Number One Dealer said"....

As for routine maintenance, I stated (and I think it's valid for everyone) that when you buy a new trailer, it's a smart idea to inspect everything before the warranty expires. Until you look, you don't even know if there's bearings in all 4 wheels... Take a look at post #37 in this thread if you need "more proof about possible factory issues"....

Now, if we're going to quibble over whether bearings "should or will" go for 27 years. I'd say that like most carpenters, their house is the last to get a kitchen update and most mechanics who do it all day long don't want to go home and do it again..... So, putting off routine maintenance may be a "professional hazard"...

As for 27 years without repacking bearings ????? If someone "inspects them regularly" I'd have to ask first, how do you inspect them with grease all over them? and second, if you remove the grease, who would repack them with the same "old grease"? So, without answers to those questions, why inspect them without repacking them?

Back to the "quibbling". Whether someone chooses a "time based or a mileage based" maintenance schedule is entirely up to the individual. We're "quibbling" over whether it ought to be "sooner or later" based on individual opinions.... If I tow my trailer on dusty, rutty dirt/gravel roads, it's very likely going to need inspections and maintenance much more at 3000 miles than a similar trailer that's towed on a "smooth concrete highway" for that same 3000 miles.....

Why quibble. I think we can all agree that going 27 years between repacking bearing is a bit much and doing it every year might be "too often by some standards".... Where in the middle each person feels comfortable is not something to "quibble about on a forum"... Nobody wins and nobody convinces the other.... The purpose of the forum is to "convey information" not "force others to think the same as we do"....

[flybouy]

Marineman the op asked for advice. Others gave theirs's and you gave yours, why do you have to go to such lengths to tell everyone else that they are wrong and only you as an "expert mechanic" know the "truth" and it's verified by some RV dealer? I don't need to participate in the childish banter. N'uff said.