Pay Load vs Towing Capacity

grey ghost · 10-13-2020, 01:31 PM

Ok, I have one salesman telling me that Pay Load of the truck only includes what you put in the truck like people, fire wood, 5th wheel hitch, etc. That does not include the hitch weight of the 5ver. Tow capacity tells you how much your truck can pull and has nothing to do with the weight in the bed of your truck. The other is telling me that payload includes the hitch weight of the trailer, gas, people, fire would, and anything else you put inside the bed of the truck, and that tow capacity is what your truck can safely tow and that has nothing to do with payload. I've confused now. I thought the pay load capacity included the hitch weight of the trailer. HELP

Javi · 10-13-2020, 01:45 PM

Towing capacity is how much it can pull and stop...

Payload is how much it can carry...

Two entirely different and separate things.

In theory one could exceed either without going over the other. But in most RV situations you'll exceed the payload before the towing capacity.

**sourdough** · 10-13-2020, 01:59 PM

Javi is spot on. The first salesman is clueless and should not be selling trucks...but he is and one of the reasons people get confused or in a bind after the sale. The 2nd guy is right. I would be talking to him and vetting the info on this forum.

On a 5th wheel you can almost rest assured you will run over the payload before getting near any max tow weights with a SRW truck. And keep in mind - payload, tow rating, gawr, gvwr, gcvwr ALL, every one of them have something to do with one another - they are all LIMITS for that particular item. You have stay within all of them, not just one or a select few. I am glad you asked before listening to someone like that first salesman.

grey ghost · 10-13-2020, 02:03 PM

So Im correct if the hitch weight of the trailer is 2300 lbs and the payload max capacity is 2100 lbs I'm definitely over payload safety, right?

Ribtip · 10-13-2020, 02:19 PM

Yep that is correct

Ribtip · 10-13-2020, 02:22 PM

And don't forget anything you store in the cargo hold also affects your pin weight and things in the camper to

travelin texans · 10-13-2020, 02:50 PM

To keep yourself out of trouble use the GVWR printed on the driver side front corner of whatever rv you're interested in to get the appropriate percentage of tongue/pin weight, use 13% for TTs (typically 12-15%), about 22% for 5th wheels, (typically 20-25%). Compare that number to the yellow/white tag on the drivers door jamb of YOUR truck that states "occupants and cargo must not exceed XXXX lbs", that's the payload for THAT truck, all are not equal, along the axle weights & other numbers on the trucks manufacturer tag.
The payload is the weight of everyone/everything in/on your truck that didn't come on it from the factory including the tongue/pin weight & the weight of the hitch itself.
The max tow rating was arrived by towing low utility type trailers loaded with blocks directly over the axles which in no way compare to towing a rv. Towing RVs you WILL exceed the payload or the axle weights long before ever getting near that max tow weight, max tow weight is a sales gimmick that gets lots of folks much more rv than they have truck for.

jsb5717 · 10-13-2020, 02:54 PM

Yes, the published pin weight is not the loaded pin weight. The payload of the truck should not be exceeded by the total amount of everything you put on it...trailer, hitch, cargo, people...everything. Add all of that up and figure up against the trucks stated payload.

It's a little challenging to get the exact numbers unless you weigh the actual truck and trailer loaded for camping. It's a good starting point to use the trailer's GVWR. 20% of that weight is an estimate for a 5th wheel, 15% for a travel trailer. Some will say loaded weight is more like 25%/20%. It's all about how you load and what you carry. Use that math for the trailer, add in everything else for a total. Start with this simple math for a loaded payload number.

Look at the yellow sticker inside the door of your potential truck for that's trucks payload capacity. That will get you close.

rhagfo · 10-13-2020, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsb5717

Yes, the published pin weight is not the loaded pin weight. The payload of the truck should not be exceeded by the total amount of everything you put on it...trailer, hitch, cargo, people...everything. Add all of that up and figure up against the trucks stated payload.

It's a little challenging to get the exact numbers unless you weigh the actual truck and trailer loaded for camping. It's a good starting point to use the trailer's GVWR. 20% of that weight is an estimate for a 5th wheel, 15% for a travel trailer. Some will say loaded weight is more like 25%/20%. It's all about how you load and what you carry. Use that math for the trailer, add in everything else for a total. Start with this simple math for a loaded payload number.

Look at the yellow sticker inside the door of your potential truck for that's trucks payload capacity. That will get you close.

This a good point, but the payload on that sticker is only good until the TV leaves the dealers lot.
That pay load is with a full load of fuel and 150# driver, and might be 300# driver and passenger on latest model year.

That payload number is based on empty curb weight+Full fuel+driver/passenger allowance subtracted from the trucks GVWR.

Once you start adding stuff to the TV, your best friend is a local scale. when you weigh your TV, have it loaded ready to hook up to your trailer. This is the only way you will know how much of the sticker payload you have left. Depending on what you carry in your truck, you might be surprised. We lost 1,411# of our 5,411# sticker payload to DW, me, 30# Beagle, VIAIR on board compressor, hitch, and my in bed tool box.

Our 5er runs a 22% pin percentage to it's GVWR.

wiredgeorge · 10-13-2020, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

Towing capacity is how much it can pull and stop...

Payload is how much it can carry...

Two entirely different and separate things.

In theory one could exceed either without going over the other. But in most RV situations you'll exceed the payload before the towing capacity.

The payload on my clunker is 4000 lbs per the door jamb sticker. From reading tow ratings (not very scientific I am sure), my tow capacity is 12500 lbs. The hitch weight of this hypothetical trailer would be 2500 lbs if a fifth wheel or a shade more. I would still have quite a bit of payload cushion. I saw the towing capacity on e-trailers website so not sure how accurate it is. I looked at a couple other places on the web it each gave a different tow capacity for my truck so I guess it pick which you like best.

Northofu1 · 10-13-2020, 04:02 PM

The only way to truly know what the real minimum and maximum numbers are for your set up is to hitch up your trailer with both vehicles empty but you and fuel. Head to the scales. Talk to the weigh master about what you want to achieve, and if it isn't busy he/she should give you the green light.
Weigh the truck first, then weigh both, now before you drive off scale, take the measurement of the hitch ball/ pin to ground, remember this measurement.
Now weigh the trailer only making sure this measurement is met. There is your base.

The next set of weighs will be loaded for your hypothetical big trip, and in the same manner and order of the base weighs. Remember to measure the height, your trailer might not be level because suspension and weight comes into play. You will however now know with the new height measurements and the added weight, what the actual tongue/pin % weight is.
If you're having doubts about what salesmen are telling you, why would you trust the numbers on their labels.
Just my

worth

markcee · 10-13-2020, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhagfo

This a good point, but the payload on that sticker is only good until the TV leaves the dealers lot.
That pay load is with a full load of fuel and 150# driver, and might be 300# driver and passenger on latest model year.

That payload number is based on empty curb weight+Full fuel+driver/passenger allowance subtracted from the trucks GVWR.

Once you start adding stuff to the TV, your best friend is a local scale. when you weigh your TV, have it loaded ready to hook up to your trailer. This is the only way you will know how much of the sticker payload you have left. Depending on what you carry in your truck, you might be surprised. We lost 1,411# of our 5,411# sticker payload to DW, me, 30# Beagle, VIAIR on board compressor, hitch, and my in bed tool box.

Our 5er runs a 22% pin percentage to it's GVWR.

The payload calculation on the door sticker does not assume a 150# driver. It is the vehicle's GVWR - vehicle's weight as it left the factory. All fluids, including a full tank of fuel are included, but no passenger/driver allowance is made.

wiredgeorge · 10-13-2020, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northofu1

The only way to truly know what the real minimum and maximum numbers are for your set up is to hitch up your trailer with both vehicles empty but you and fuel. Head to the scales. Talk to the weigh master about what you want to achieve, and if it isn't busy he/she should give you the green light.
Weigh the truck first, then weigh both, now before you drive off scale, take the measurement of the hitch ball/ pin to ground, remember this measurement.
Now weigh the trailer only making sure this measurement is met. There is your base.

The next set of weighs will be loaded for your hypothetical big trip, and in the same manner and order of the base weighs. Remember to measure the height, your trailer might not be level because suspension and weight comes into play. You will however now know with the new height measurements and the added weight, what the actual tongue/pin % weight is.
If you're having doubts about what salesmen are telling you, why would you trust the numbers on their labels.
Just my

worth

The scales are useful for determining weight on the axles and overall payload but NOT the tow rating. I am pretty sure that since the numbers vary so darn much, the tow rating the OEMs brag about really isn't some firm number, even based on their hypothetical truck set up for max towing capability.

travelin texans · 10-13-2020, 09:27 PM

No where on the door stickers will you find that infamous "max tow weight" listed. You'll find the payload, the GVWR, axle weights, even tire size & load rating. The max tow weight is only found in advertising literature or commercials used for "mines bigger" purposes & is of absolutely no use in real world rv towing.

tech740 · 10-14-2020, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelin texans

No where on the door stickers will you find that infamous "max tow weight" listed. You'll find the payload, the GVWR, axle weights, even tire size & load rating. The max tow weight is only found in advertising literature or commercials used for "mines bigger" purposes & is of absolutely no use in real world rv towing.

Some the new HD Chevys have a sticker with the different max tow rating depending on the trailer type.

wiredgeorge · 10-14-2020, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech740

Some the new HD Chevys have a sticker with the different max tow rating depending on the trailer type.

Curious that payload is 1911 lbs and max tongue weight 1425 lbs. Wonder where the other 500 will go or do?

tech740 · 10-14-2020, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Curious that payload is 1911 lbs and max tongue weight 1425 lbs. Wonder where the other 500 will go or do?

No clue. It is not my sticker. It was just something I remembered seeing. I don’t see how their numbers on a properly loaded trailer works. I just wanted to show that the sticker is out there.

jsb5717 · 10-14-2020, 09:02 AM

I wonder if there is a different sticker for HD trucks or just bigger numbers. I've also been seeing different numbers for different types of trailers. Makes sense since a TT will put stress on a truck differently than a 5er. It is interesting they that sticker is differentiating between pin weight and payload. Looks like they don't want all of the payload sitting in the one spot or they are accounting for people as well in the larger number since the truck won't drive itself without people...yet.

Gegrad · 10-14-2020, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsb5717

I wonder if there is a different sticker for HD trucks or just bigger numbers. I've also been seeing different numbers for different types of trailers. Makes sense since a TT will put stress on a truck differently than a 5er. It is interesting they that sticker is differentiating between pin weight and payload. Looks like they don't want all of the payload sitting in the one spot or they are accounting for people as well in the larger number since the truck won't drive itself without people...yet.

I believe all the Chevy and GMC HD trucks have the sticker breaking down the towing numbers for different trailer configuration, but only the HD trucks. I don't believe the 1/2 ton trucks have the specific sticker with the breakdown on them.

**sourdough** · 10-14-2020, 05:03 PM

I think I probably like that sticker.

It gives all the info right there in one place instead of different stickers etc. The towing capacity portion on the bottom looks like just a retype of their brochures/spec sheets but it's still nice to see it all in one place. And another helpful thing IMO; at the top of the list of the actual critical weights it states "MUST NOT EXCEED ANY OF THESE VALUES". So many argue all kinds of off the wall things about why one (or more) weight can be ignored as long as you do "abc". This explicitly states, in no uncertain terms, what we've said forever - they are all equally important and all must be adhered to....I like that.

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