Ford f250 5th wheel towing - confused by door sticker

[wiredgeorge]

Confusion about numbers you see on the television and sales brochures are because they come from the marketing departments; Ford and Ram are constantly trying to one-up each other by screaming "BEST IN CLASS TOWING" or "BEST IN CLASS PAYLOAD" and poor Chevy is left with "best in class cameras" (I actually saw that in a TV commercial yesterday). When any of the big 3 sell you a truck they have to tell the truth in the payload placard. For the most part, the ability to drag something down the road due to engine umph ain't the short pole in the tent; payload is.

[LewisB]

George, you crack me up!

To the moderators, we need to add "SPITT" to the list of forum definitions!
SPITT = Short Pole In The Tent

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by LewisB

George, you crack me up!

To the moderators, we need to add "SPITT" to the list of forum definitions!
SPITT = Short Pole In The Tent

Done... This is one we don't want to "lose"....

[Viet_Vet]

Thank you John, Jim, Marshall, and others that replied.

So, I went to the scales today with just my truck, filled with diesel, a full tool box in the back, my 200 lbs self, and other miscellaneous crap that we all seem to accumulate. GVW on my truck is 10,000 lbs.

Here are the numbers:
FRONT AXLE - 4780
REAR AXLE - 3260
DW and GENERATOR WEIGHT - 200 POUNDS
TOTAL TRUCK WEIGHT - 8240


So that leaves me with 1760 pounds. Pin weight on 5er is 1430 pounds. If I am correct, that means I am cutting it close, but still a tad under the limits.

[notanlines]

If you travel light in the 5'ver, load a little more in the rear of the RV you should be alright. On the border, but alright. Most people will have the 5'ver loaded pretty heavy after a couple years and that pin weight is going to creep up to the 2000 mark. Appease us all and run over the scales again next trip out!

[KimNTerry]

You may be even closer than you think.

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2015-keystone-hideout-fifth-wheel-floorplan-299rlds-tr21648

The spec'd dry pin weight is 1485.
GVWR on that trailer is 10,500 so an estimated pin weight of 1850 at GVWR

(The 1485 is 18.5% of the dry weight 8040 so it's a reasonable indicator of pin weight percentage, generally 20% of GVWR is used for estimating fifth wheel trailer pin weight.)

If you have weighed in the wet loaded pin weight at 1430 then some light weighting to the trailer has occurred and you're good. If not, it may be more than the published weight.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by KimNTerry

You may be even closer than you think.

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2015-keystone-hideout-fifth-wheel-floorplan-299rlds-tr21648

The spec'd dry pin weight is 1485.
GVWR on that trailer is 10,500 so an estimated pin weight of 1850 at GVWR

(The 1485 is 18.5% of the dry weight 8040 so it's a reasonable indicator of pin weight percentage, generally 20% of GVWR is used for estimating fifth wheel trailer pin weight.)

If you have weighed in the wet loaded pin weight at 1430 then some light weighting to the trailer has occurred and you're good. If not, it may be more than the published weight.

Was my first thought, 1430 might be the dry pin weight. If it's like my Cougar that'll turn into 2k pretty quick.

[KimNTerry]

Mine is around 1750 on my 10,220 GVWR trailer. +- 50 or so pounds either way depending on how I'm loaded for a particular trip.

[sourdough]

The 1485 is for the dry weight which it surpassed when they put a battery in it. If it is loaded minimally for camping I figure the pin will take up all of the available payload...at least.

[JRTJH]

My Cougar XLite is "advertised at 1120 pin weight".. Actual "camping ready pin weight" (with two GC2 batteries, full fresh water (FW Tank is in the extreme rear of the trailer) and all camping equipment) is about 1800-1850... So, what KimNTerry posted about pin weight is pretty close for most any trailer weighing about 8000 pounds with a 2000 pound payload. Most 10K-11K trailers will have a pin weight range from 1750-2000 pounds when ready to tow.

Wallace, a question about the weights you posted for your truck. Did you have the hitch installed in the bed when you weighed??? If not, you can add roughly 100-125 for a stationary hitch or about 200 for a sliding hitch. The aluminum Andersen hitch is about 40 pounds... My point is, if you didn't have the hitch in the truck, that 1760 is really closer to 1500-1600.....

[danimal]

[QUOTE=Viet_Vet;411503]Thank you John, Jim, Marshall, and others that replied.

So, I went to the scales today with just my truck, filled with diesel, a full tool box in the back, my 200 lbs self, and other miscellaneous crap that we all seem to accumulate. GVW on my truck is 10,000 lbs.

Here are the numbers:
FRONT AXLE - 4780
REAR AXLE - 3260
DW and GENERATOR WEIGHT - 200 POUNDS
TOTAL TRUCK WEIGHT - 8240


So that leaves me with 1760 pounds. Pin weight on 5er is 1430 pounds. If I am correct, that means I am cutting it close, but still a tad under the limits.[/QUOTE


You will be fine. Worst case scenario you MIGHT slightly exceed your payload capacity. Hook it up and go on down the road.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by danimal

You will be fine. Worst case scenario you MIGHT slightly exceed your payload capacity. Hook it up and go on down the road.

From the description of what was "IN THE TRUCK" there is no hitch involved AND the pin weight is the "shipping/empty pin" which means the OP will need to add the fifth wheel hitch weight AND the increased pin weight that will be added when the dealer fills the propane tanks, adds a battery (or two) and the OP adds his trailer equipment to the mix....

Typically, fifth wheels "weigh in with a pin weight of 20-25% of total trailer weight... Considering GVW at 10,000 that's a pin weight of 2000-2500 and for an 11,000 GVW, that's 2200-2750....

You're "partially correct"... He will be fine (until he isn't) and worst case scenario, he "WILL" (not might) exceed his payload, quite probably by much more than "slightly".......

[vancouverbrian]

There is so much when calculating weights of truck, payload, pin weight etc. First is that the door sticker is the legal number for your truck. The guides from the manufacturers are a guide only, and each truck with different optional equipment, will be different. The guide for promotional reasons, have the best configuration to show max towing. Many will play with air shocks, tires etc and deem it to be acceptable. When you change those things, your ride might be improved but the legal number does not change. Second. When dealing with a 3/4 ton pick up, the numbers are limited by the manufacturer because of customer demand for a limited number for insurance cost or license requirements. The best way to calculate actual available payload is to do as you did and drive over the scale in loaded condition. If you are going to go with others in the truck, then their weight must be included. Along with any other tools, equipment etc. Third. Most people estimate the pin weight of their trailer incorrectly. As an estimate, it is usually between 20 and 25% of their loaded (not dry) trailer weight. The best way is to take the trailer over the scales with the truck and calculate the actual pin weight.

I would not recommend to anyone to tow a fifth wheel with a 3/4 ton but many here do. As a general rule, when towing a fifth wheel of 10000 to 15000 lbs, you should have a 1 ton SRW and if heavier, then a DRW truck is indicated.

I hope this is helpful to those here.

[Mikelff]

Originally Posted by Viet_Vet

Thank you John, Jim, Marshall, and others that replied.

So, I went to the scales today with just my truck, filled with diesel, a full tool box in the back, my 200 lbs self, and other miscellaneous crap that we all seem to accumulate. GVW on my truck is 10,000 lbs.

Here are the numbers:
FRONT AXLE - 4780
REAR AXLE - 3260
DW and GENERATOR WEIGHT - 200 POUNDS
TOTAL TRUCK WEIGHT - 8240


So that leaves me with 1760 pounds. Pin weight on 5er is 1430 pounds. If I am correct, that means I am cutting it close, but still a tad under the limits.

Your information is incomplete. You do not mention if your hitch is in the truck. You do not mention if your 5er is fully loaded with all your stuff. Makes a big difference. Also, you need to put the amount of water you would typically travel with (the high end amount) in your fresh water tank when you weigh your rig. Some people say a full tank, but if you never travel with a full tank, its not a real world scenario. I NEVER travel with a full fresh water tank. 20 gal. max. So until you are fully loaded, truck and 5er, you do not know where you are on the weights. Load up and then go weigh. Then you know where you stand.

[blubuckaroo]

WOW! 2283 pounds?
That's on par with a well equipped half ton.

[tech740]

Originally Posted by blubuckaroo

WOW! 2283 pounds?
That's on par with a well equipped half ton.

If memory serves me correctly that is about 500ish higher than a half ton and more for a well equipped half ton.

[Larrystegall]

The numbers advertised are accurate if you speak advertising:
Properly equipped: stripped down
Up to: you’ll never see a truck that can carry it
Some exclusions: everything is excluded
Max towing: chassis model
Best in class: see some exclusions

[Larrystegall]

Originally Posted by flybouy

That's what I get for typing on my tablet when my hands are this numb, or dumb, either way.

I have experienced the same issue, and it is not dumb. I have seen a doctor, and you have systemic unkeyboardination syndrome.

There is no cure, but a diet that includes moderate quantities of beer will help. Best Washes

[beeje]

As stated that yellow sticker is Gospel. However there are hundreds of thousands of folks out there Towing very large heavy campers with 3/4 ton trucks everyday. Every single one of them is more than likely overweight. Don't be that person get the correct truck or tow a lighter camper.

In my humble opinion and F250 of any year or any brand has no business towing anything that weighs more than 10,000 pounds loaded or so.

[rbrdriver]

My thoughts exactly. I would at least get a 1-ton srw anyways. You don't necessarily have to have a dually. The 1-ton srw would usually give you quite a bit more payload, but still handle like a 3/4 ton.