problem with dog rule at state park

[LouSlugger]

My family and I have camped at Silver Lake State Park in Michigan for the past 7 years (in July). I have always taken at least one dog. Last year we had our two labs. They are both professionally obedience trained. They also were raised with a crate (the large metal cage-like thing) and both are very comfortable in it. (In fact, that's where one of them sleeps each night when we are at home.) It is a place of refuge for them. At Silver Lake, we keep the crate just outside the RV during the day, always in the shade of the awning (which requires us to move it somewhat from time to time). One day we left the RV while renting a ski boat. Left dogs in crate, in shade of awning. We were gone about 2 hours. Upon return, a park ranger (not the law enforcement kind) approached me as I pulled in our space and told me we were not allowed to leave our dogs alone at the campsite under any circumstances, not even inside the RV. He also said we could not keep the dogs in a crate even when we were present-- they had to be leashed or inside a fenced "pen." This came as quite a surprise considering that we had been doing this for 6 consecutive years. He told me he would issue a citation if it happened again. He said someone had reported us, but wouldn't tell me who. My dogs don't bark or behave aggressively, ever. In fact, when I'm hanging out at the RV, I usually leave them unleashed. They have never barked at another dog or person, and sometimes don't even acknowledge the presence of other dogs. They are extremely mellow. Is this the rule at state parks everywhere, or just Michigan? Funny thing is that during that same week, other rangers on patrol complimented how well behaved the dogs are.

[Festus2]

Usually parks will have a set of rules posted - including rules for dogs - somewhere in a conspicuous place in the campground. Is what the park ranger telling you the same as what appears on the printout?

Any state or provincial park that I have been to always has rules pertaining to dogs and they are very similar. One being, that dogs must be on a leash at all times - no matter how well trained or obedient they are. In some parks, the length of the leash is specified usually somewhere between 6-10 ft. The rule requiring that dogs be leashed and under control at all times is a good one and is there for the safety and well-being of other campers. If you do not have your dogs leashed/or crated, I would give your campsite a wide berth - especially if I were out walking our dog. I have no idea what your dogs might or will do and I do not feel that I should be put in a position of being apprehensive or uncertain about their behavior. If there is a rule that says that dogs must be on a leash at all times, then I would expect everyone follow it - no matter how well-behaved the dogs are.

To be honest, I get a bit crunchy when some unleashed, loose dog comes barking and running out towards us when we are walking our leashed dog around the campground. Often, the owner comes out of the camper and says, "Sorry about that. He doesn't bite. He's not vicious." Well, thanks alot!!

I've never seen any rule that says that dogs cannot be left unattended inside your own RV or confined by a rope or crate at the campsite. But that doesn't mean such rules don't exist. Rules vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. However, out of courtesy to other campers, I would not leave a barking dog tied up or crated outside my camper. We have often left our dog inside the unit ensuring that it has plenty of water, air circulation and cool to moderate temperatures.

Most fenced pens that I have seen are only effective for smallish-type dogs and could be easily breached by any mid-sized or large dog who wants to get out or at something. A crate or leash is much more effective IMO.

If other rangers in the park have complimented you on the dogs' behaviour, perhaps it was just this one person who was trying to embellish his position of authority.

[Htfiremedic]

Ga state parks allow crates. They don't allow you to tie them to trees of vehicles. The ranger usually stops to play with ours at least once per visit. He has a couple of well behaved, golf ball eating labs(as seen by us at the campground mini golf).
Crates seem safer than tie outs, seems strange to me.

[SteveC7010]

Gotta agree with Festus here. The leash rule is almost universal, and for good reason. No matter how well trained your dogs might be, others aren't. About the third time that an unleashed dog shows up in my campsite, I politely inform the owner that he or she is leaving me no alternative but to complain to the park staff.

I'd be asking to see the "no crate" rule. If it doesn't exist, I'd be in the park manager's office in a flash. We have bumped into uneven enforcement of rules and heavy handed behavior of rangers before, and I don't put up with it. Like I told one park superintendent last year, "If your ranger had not lied to me, copped an attitude, and then lied to me again, we wouldn't be having this conversation."

We've camped predominately in NYS parks. They hand you a printed set of rules specifically on dogs when you register. There's no question about what's required and what's not.

[MISailor]

I've never seen any rule that says that dogs cannot be left unattended inside your own RV .

Almost every camground that we have visited over that past couple of years has had this rule but we routinely leave our dog in his crate in the TT when we are gone since he's not a barker;).

[JRTJH]

We have a German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP) who is very laid back, friendly and well trained. We don't feel comfortable leaving him alone inside the RV as we never know what might walk past the window and get him going. Even though he is well mannered and well trained, he is, after all, a dog and if a cat, squirrel, bear, deer, or whatever happened by, I can't guarantee he wouldn't go into "dog mode" and possibly either tear things up or worse, break out of the RV through a window or ???? So, for that reason, we leave him in a shipping crate which he calls "home" even when we aren't in the RV.

As for even a well mannered dog unleashed outside??? Or even leashed and unattended??? What do you do when some "other less behaved" dog breaks free and attacks your dog? Do you have any control at that point? or would a leash and personal presence in the immediate area enable you to get your dog under your immediate control even in the worst scenario? My thoughts are that even if you are inside your RV having a cool one, just steps away, if your dog gets into trouble outside and you aren't there to resolve or control the situation, then you're at fault. A leash is not a babysitter for a dog chained outside should a child toddle into your campsite accidentally.

I have little tolerance for people who think their "toy dog" is cute and not really a dog so the rules don't apply to them. Really, what difference does the size make? The rules apply to my 60 pound dog and also to yours whatever the size.

I'm all for the leash rules and strict enforcement of that rule. Now, as for a fenced pen. I'd call a steel crate a pen and go about my business. If that ranger could have showed me specifically where a steel crate is not a steel pen, then I'd back down (disgruntled) and complied. If not, then like Steve, I'd be elevating my complaint to the appropriate level.

[zuley]

Mr Slugger,
You sound to me to be the exception to the rule. Thank you. Unfortunatly being a dog owner you are required to adhere to the rules created because of other campers incensitive to the privacy of others that chose to let their dogs bark and run free prior to the rules being put into place. I'd like to think that for the most part most dog owners respect the rights of other campers. Unfortunately we have encountered a few over the years who in my opnion feel they are above the rules or maybe they just can't read or understand and comprehend what has been put forth to them in the park rules.

[SAD]

Isn't a wire crate a "small fenced pen" with a "roof"?

[davidjsimons]

Isn't a wire crate a "small fenced pen" with a "roof"?

My thoughts as well.


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[Bob Landry]

I'm a dog lover and owner, however, I fully support the leash laws and rules in campgrounds. The papers are full of reports of dogs that have attacked people and other animals and the response from the owner is usually, "He's never done that before". Dogs are like people, and in spite of training and temperament, any one of them can have a bad day. It can be something as innocuous as a kid yelling, another dog barking or a squirrel. While most dog owners feel that their pet, like their kid, is the center of their universe, they aren't at the center of everyone else's. Keep 'em leashed or keep 'em home and everyone camps in comfort.

[Festus2]

Bob -
Amen!!

[davidjsimons]

I keep my dog on a leash at all times when I'm away from home for his own safety. People always walk up to him wanting to pet him. I always advise them not to because he may bite. That statement is true with any dog. My dog is a Scottish Terrier, and although he may look as though he belongs in a Norman Rockwell Christmas card, Scotties are known for not taking much stuff. I know that, and for his safety and the safety of those around him, I keep him on a leash when away from home.


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[Ruffus]

Georgia seems to be pretty lax on it's dogs rules as long as they are under control. A lot of the Park managers who are law enforcement have dogs which run loose with them and even occupy the office with out a leash. That being said, as a campground host I've seen people leave their dogs out all day in the hot sun in a crate without water.
Last year while hosting at one of our GA State Parks we had a family leave their two small dogs in their TT for about ten hours. During the day a large tree fell next to the TT and shorted out the electric pedestal. The temp that day was in the upper 90's and it was getting hot in that trailer. I attemped to contact a ranger but they were all in training. Knowing the dogs were in distress I broke out a window and brought both dogs to my site. When the family returned thay were happy that I had rescued their pets but upset that I damaged their trailer.
After a few threats I told them to take it up with the rangers and we could let it play out in court. Never heard another thing and they left the next morning.:iws:

[LouSlugger]

Thanks for all the very thoughtful responses. Lots of good points. I guess the inconsistent rules enforcement just rubbed me the wrong way.
I had not considered that unleashed dogs, however peaceful looking, might cause other campers to feel insecure. Mine spend most of their time sleeping!
I also want to clarify that I never leave the dogs unleashed unless I'm sitting right there with them. If I go inside, they either go with me or into the crate.

[crash]

We always go by the rules and we too hate it when you have some people that think their dogs are to special to go by the rules.I know I will step on some toes but oh well so be it it goes the same for screaming kids that parents dont watch to if I have to keep my dogs quiet you should have to keep your loud screaming kids quiet to.

[Htfiremedic]

@ crash - I beat the kids and dog both whether they need it or not, just like my mama did.
Keeps em honest!
We follow the rules as well, and it can be a pain. Never the less, we like having parks that allow pets and do our best to keep the poop picked up an the dog quiet.
Step on toes. It might keep the dog friendly and kid friendly places friendly!

[michael]

I have had many dogs over the years, And i guess the way i look at it,
Is if i need to leave my dog or kids in or at the camper while i leave then i shouldnt have brought them.
If i wanted to take the dog i would look for dog friendly campgrounds same thing with kids,

lol same with me when we went to Country Thunder music fest the majority were young and loud at the sites and i expected that,
We had grand kids under 10 years old that wanted to go with but we felt and we were right it wasnt a place for that age group to stay at.

When we plan a trip we research and look for places and things to do that is perfect for everyone and every pet that we plan to bring.
Now that we are older we dont have pets, lol and the kids are older to,
So ware ever we decide to go with the fiver we can adjust to fit in with the way things are at that campground,
My mom has one of thoes oscar myar dogs she has her own fiver but she cant leave her dog because he will bark, so there are times when we go she will arrange for a doggie sitter.
So having responsabilitys limits everyones ability to do what we want.

[crash]

Dont get me wrong about kids we have two that are grown now. but like said we check to see whats going on in a campground before we go, everyone needs to have a great time right.

[SAABDOCTOR]

THE only part of leaving them in a crate unattended,is that some not so nice person will think your cruel and take them! i allways stay with my dogs when tied out.

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

The one thing that owners cannot do is know what their dogs
are like when they (owners), are not present.
Dogs have a sense of ownership for the "things" that are
familiar to them. In other words, they are 'protective' of the home front.
Where ever that may be. When traveling they get anxious, you may not
notice, the glancing around is more frequent, and the ears are more alert
to small noises. Then you (the interpreter of what's good or not), goes away,
Their natural mind-set is to protect ALL that is thier's and your's. They are
used to 'protecting' an area of, however large your property is, Trouble is you
are now in a space that is only the size of your campsite, the normal smells,
sounds, and sights are not familiar to the animal...
I'm a fulltimer and Rascal (Border Collie), has an inbred need to 'Watch
and Protect'. I do NOT leave him on his own. I could, I just prefer not to.
He feels better, I feel better. When folks ask to pet him I say ok, and let Rascal
know it's ok by talking to him. I do get compliments on his behavior
and folks always comment on how smart he is. My reply is, Yes he is smart, in
fact he's so smart that the only time he gets in trouble is when he starts
thinking for himself..........
I've run on a bit but this is a sore subject with me. I think Bob Landry said it
best, "Dogs are like people, and in spite of training and temperament, any
one of them can have a bad day. It can be something as innocuous as a kid
yelling, another dog barking or a squirrel." ALL of these things will put dogs into ALERT MODE.
Climbing down from soap box now .....


hankaye

[SAABDOCTOR]

good job hank!!!!! well put

[michael]

Yes hank and put well

[Ken / Claudia]

Lou, In Oregon dogs must be on leash always out side, unless in a off leash area, most parks here have them. As for not allowing them to be left in the RV or wolf den (create) never heard of that rule anywhere. It is not a rule here. If they are barking while left iside, it could be a problem.
Park Rangers here get little training, most work summers only. He may have not known the rules and how they are to be applied. He may have only understood part of them. To inforce any rules/laws the person should first learn what the intent of the rule/law is. I had to respond to 3 area state parks to assist rangers, they were mostly wrong or could not do what they thought they or I could do. If I was you, I would check the web site rules etc. if not phone a superviser and tell them your story, if he was wrong they need to know.

[Bluewater]

Just ask ANY camp host or Ranger what they have the most problems with and they all will tell you it's irresponsible dog owners. They all have a perfect pet that never barks and is so calm it doesn't need a leash. No one likes a barking dog. For one I am tired of cleaning my shoes of the piles they leave and not picked up by the owners. They have those rules for a reason.

[mhs4771]

Some of you must camp in places we don't frequent. Just about every place we've ever stayed has the rule that Dogs are not to be left alone, either outside or in the rig. Now most places don't enforce leaving them in the rig, as long as they're quiet. We've been places where the dog in the rig howls the entire time the Master is away. At the park we're presently in you follow the rules or you're out, and they keep a list so you won't be back.

[x96mnn]

My dog was attacked by very well behaved dogs who had never shown any signs before this incident who was at a campsite with their owner and not leashed.

My dog seems to not be liked by other dogs. My vet states that it is most likely due to the fact he had his anal glands removed which helps produce their scent. My dog really does not have one and it confuses animals often causing aggressive behavior by other dogs. He has been attacked 3 times in this fashion all by smaller dogs around 40pds. No real injury as I am quick to react but only recall one time I had words with the owner who took issue in my leashed dog making their poor spoofy upset.

My wife and I make it a point to walk the park and route before we take him but its not possible to know for sure if someone will have there dog out.

[Bugsmema]

Wow, so many great responses! I have to agree with everyone on dogs on a leash. Kind of makes me feel safer when I want to walk my chocolate lab. Hate it when you take your dog for a walk, someone's dog comes running at you, barking. My dog is a lover and very submissive so I have to watch closely on the dog approaching. Is this a friendly or not. Makes my heart jump a beat. Would rather not have that feeling. Leashes to me are like fences, they make good neighbors.