3400RL weights

[jlb27537]

Hello Group,

We are considering a Montana 3400RL. Does anyone have real world actual scale weights.

I can find the GVWR and such, but not what they actually weigh. The brochure has shipping weight and pin weight. IF that is accurate you would take total weight minus pin weight and get axle weight.

Are the shipped weights as listed for a base unit and then you have to add for options, like 2nd A/C, washer/dryer, etc.

Next, is the build quality the same in a 2013 product compared to a 2010. I ask due to everyone want to cut costs, that also takes out quality.

Thanks, Jim

[mhs4771]

Jim, if you go over to: http://www.montanaowners.com/
and signup on the Montana Owner's Forum, you will be able to get real world weights for 3400 owners. At present some owners seem to think that each year the quality decreases a little while prices increase. We had a 2010 2955RL the smallest Montana. From our experience shipping weights and brochure weights aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Ours had a shipping weight of a little over 10K, pin just under 1900, once we loaded it up with combo washer/dry, Level-Up System, Auto Sat Dish, dual Group 29 Batteries, dual 40 Pound LP Tanks, and personal stuff for long term travel we were getting close to 14K gross and 2700 Lbs on the pin. A long way from the published numbers. Our current RW shipped from the factory about 1500 Lbs above advertised weight. Good luck

[jlb27537]

Thanks, when we ordered our 2001 Newmar 5th, the brochure weights were of a no options unit. We ordered 1,600lbs of options. It came in with in 50 lbs of the estimated weight.

We had to order 7K axles, 8K brakes and a 16.5K pin box over the stock 6K axles, 6K brakes and a 14K pin box.

Had this been a dealer stock unit, it would probably have been over on the axles and would have been a problem from day one. We pulled it for 6 years and not even a hint of a issue.

I was told, WEIGH IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT, so that still holds true. I am finding that over they years weights have gone up, quality has gone down, but prices continue to go up.

The 'Lippert" brand is all over the newer stuff and I see nothing but shortcuts, poor craftsmanship, and cost cutting in all their products.

I looked at a new Montana today, it had the 6 jacks on it, 2 were leaking at the shaft seals and the hose to the right front jack was about a foot too short and was being cut into by the sheet metal on the front frame area.

I'll keep looking. Thanks for the link.

Jim

[CWtheMan]

In the reference provided below you will find all the information needed about your trailer’s weights. Some folks may be giving/quoting outdated information. All units made after 2007 must abide by the information in this reference.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.120

I just happen to have a certification label from a 3400RL. You can compare yours with this one.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=22027

CW

[jlb27537]

Thanks CW,

All that label says is what the mfg says the most it can weigh. Means nothing.

I asked for real world weights, not what the label says it can weigh.

Jim

[PerryB]

Thanks, when we ordered our 2001 Newmar 5th, the brochure weights were of a no options unit. We ordered 1,600lbs of options. It came in with in 50 lbs of the estimated weight.

We had to order 7K axles, 8K brakes and a 16.5K pin box over the stock 6K axles, 6K brakes and a 14K pin box.

Had this been a dealer stock unit, it would probably have been over on the axles and would have been a problem from day one. We pulled it for 6 years and not even a hint of a issue.

I was told, WEIGH IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT, so that still holds true. I am finding that over they years weights have gone up, quality has gone down, but prices continue to go up.

The 'Lippert" brand is all over the newer stuff and I see nothing but shortcuts, poor craftsmanship, and cost cutting in all their products.

I looked at a new Montana today, it had the 6 jacks on it, 2 were leaking at the shaft seals and the hose to the right front jack was about a foot too short and was being cut into by the sheet metal on the front frame area.

I'll keep looking. Thanks for the link.

Jim
After reading this I had to jump in as well. Jim is right, Lipperts construction quality is right down the toilet. I have two boys,13 and 15, who have welding and fabricating skills superior to anything I've seen from Lippert. Sadly, I didn't do much crawling around under my current trailer before buying it. I just assumed it was built to standards similar to the Holiday Rambler I had at the time. WRONG. The weld quality absolutely makes me cringe. I don't know who's building a quality chassis anymore. All the high end builders have apparently succumbed to this robust economy. If I could go back and do it over again, I'd have bought a Newmar or a Carriage.

[jlb27537]

Perry,

Newmar only builds motor homes now, don't know when they quit towables, Carriage is out of business.

Double Tree is using Lippert products and their quality is showing in their frame, slide and jacks.

Excel is still around, builds their own frames, are probably the only one.

I'm still looking.

Jim

[PerryB]

Perry,

Newmar only builds motor homes now, don't know when they quit towables, Carriage is out of business.



Jim

Thats why I said "if I could go back and do it over again". I know all the high end builders are gone. Towables don't seem to be a lucrative market anymore. I'm really upset with myself because I passed on a Carriage Cameo about a year and a half ago and now I really wish I'd have bought it.

[tking1866]

What about Nuwa?

[jlb27537]

What about Nuwa?

This article gives some info. It does not look good.

http://rv-pro.com/news/nuwa-industries-to-cease-production-considering-closure

Jim

[jlb27537]

Hello All,

I want to Thank Everyone who replied. I did join the Montana Forum and did get some good weights. A 3400RL is close to 20-22% on the pin. It will probably be at gross weight.

You can "maybe get by" with a 3500 SRW, but to do it right and have any safety margin at all you need a DRW.

Your math may vary...............

Jim

[CamillaMichael]

Jim, we do our best to keep our weights down...we do travel for long periods of time (six months or more), so we do have some stuff packed, but not to max. We also have a second a/c forward, but do not have a W/D. On our last trip to the scales our trailer axle weight was 11,100 and the pin weight was 2800. The pin weight is something to really watch out for since the actual pin weight is usually significantly higher than the advertised, empty weight.

[MrAndy]

Jim, we do our best to keep our weights down...we do travel for long periods of time (six months or more), so we do have some stuff packed, but not to max. We also have a second a/c forward, but do not have a W/D. On our last trip to the scales our trailer axle weight was 11,100 and the pin weight was 2800. The pin weight is something to really watch out for since the actual pin weight is usually significantly higher than the advertised, empty weight.

CamillaMichael,

Do you travel with water in the holding tanks to get that weight?

[CamillaMichael]

We travel without any water in the fresh water tank, very little in the black tank, and little-to-none in the grey tanks.

[Avofarmer66]

Look at the big rigs. Castco for one and most concret mixers are running super singles. Also some are running Nitrogen in the tires. Run cooler is the key, with less rolling resistance.

A single tire axle will weigh about 300lbs less that duals.

[mhs4771]

I have to admit that I haven't seen any Super Singles on 350/3500 SRW TVs.

[JRTJH]

Look at the big rigs. Castco for one and most concret mixers are running super singles. Also some are running Nitrogen in the tires. Run cooler is the key, with less rolling resistance.

A single tire axle will weigh about 300lbs less that duals.

I'm not real sure I can agree with your statement on reduced rolling resistance with nitrogen in the tires. Pressure is pressure, the outside of the rubber tread on a tire could care less whether it is nitrogen or "plain air" inside creating the pressure. I'm inclined to believe that rolling resistance would be the same with air as with nitrogen at the same pressure. Could you please provide some source data to show how resistance is reduced? Thanks.

As for running cooler, that is also a questionable statement. Even in high pressure aircraft tires, nitrogen doesn't "run cooler" it simply doesn't change pressure at altitude. In the event of an emergency landing with a blowout and sparks/fuel around the tires, nitrogen will give less potential to ignite, and may even help reduce the risk of fire, but in an RV or tow vehicle, I'm not inclined to believe that nitrogen runs cooler. Again, do you have any documentation that would provide additional information on this?

I will admit that nitrogen does not leak through a tire carcass as rapidly as "regular air" and as such, will maintain the desired pressure for a longer period of time, and that "could" lead to tires maintaining recommended pressure for a longer time which "could" enhance "cooler running tires" but it's not the nitrogen that causes that, it's the pressure. Any owner who checks his tire pressure regularly can do the same thing whether he is running nitrogen or air.

Don't think that I'm "attacking" you personally, I'm just not a fan of paying extra for nitrogen because the "sales hype" states it's better. Like Tom Cruise said, "Show me the money" So far, I've found no tangible benefit to nitrogen in RV or TV tires. I will readily agree that in "high tech" applications it's very beneficial, but we're not running the space shuttle or a 747, we're running relatively "low tech" bias ply or radial tires.

[trucker LOU]

Also consider that "regular air" has a large percentage of nitrogen.about 70% if my memory still works.

[jsmith948]

X2 on the previous two posts. I suppose it might be argued that with 100% nitrogen there is no oxygen and, therefore, less oxidation of the rubber on the inside of the tire. But I don't think you could measure that and would hardly offset the oxidation occurring on the outside of the tire! The compressed air I use is free (except for the electricity) and it's 78% nitrogen anyway:D

[mhs4771]

I attended a seminar at the Nov GS Rally in Daytona given by a gentleman from MorRyde. His take on Nitrogen in tires was "If it free, OK, but don't pay for it". He did say it had it's advantages, mainly if done correctly it purges the moisture out of the tires, because the moisture expanding and contracting causes the biggest change in pressure, plus as previously mention the bad effect of moisture in the tires.

[Festus2]

Any articles I've read about nitrogen in tires seems to indicate that the benefits are so slight that the money you spend for a refill would be better spent in a good tire gauge. Followed, of course, by checking the tire pressure regularly. There is also the inconvenience finding a place that sells nitrogen or, if refilling at Costco for free, finding a time and place to pull your rig into their tire facility which may be busy, crowded or both.