My New 2012 Passport 2480rkwe is JUNK

[Unhappy Camper]

We Took Delivery of Keystone Passport 2480RKWE on Oct 17th. Returned from one Month trip Nov 15th.

Prior to leaving Windish RV in Longmont CO, on Oct 17th, I was approached by an adjuster assigned by Keystone and asked if this unit was the one with DELAM she was to look at. I said it better not be I just bought it. She was gazing at the front. I did not see anything obvious so I foolishly drove off.

Second night out the light hit the front of the trailer just right and I could see several bumps in the decal. I tried pressing the decal down but the bump was not an air bubble but actually in the FILON.

Due to sloppy workmanship with the silicone caulking and freah (different colored) dicor lap sealant where the back FILON meets the EPDM roof, it is very evident that the entire REAR FILON panel was replaced prior to delivery. My delivery was delayed two days from the scheduled date of Oct 15th. They said they had to order a "lens". Looks like they really needed two days to replace the back FILON panel. The back FILON panel either had DLAM or the dealer had damaged it moving the trailer.

This is a new 2012 unit manufactured March 2012. The dealer never mentioned that the unit had been repaired and that it required additional warranty service to replace the front FILON.

After driving home from the delivery at Windish RV, I opened the trailer and noticed the kitchen roof vent screen had fallen on the floor because there were not enough tabs remaining to hold it in.

We pull the trailer with a Chevy Silverado 2500 6.0l, using an EQUAL-I-ZER brand hitch. The setup bobs up and down on some concrete roads so much that the cupboards in the rear kitchen open and stuff spills out. The latches are not weak because when camping the cupboards are very hard to open.

Thin I noticed that one on the hinges for the cupboard under the sink was loose. Took out my #2 square drive to tighten the hinge, both screws were stripped. Obviously the dealer has not checked the hinges. I checked the rest of the hinges; 40% of the screws would not tighten. Seems as though the factory had over torqued the screws.

The vent hood over the stove has a fan that turns ON but there is no vent for the fan to exhaust air to the outside.

The list just keeps getting longer. This trailer seems to be of very poor quality. It makes my 2000 R-Vision Bantam Hybrid feel like a Caddy. This Passport was supposed to be an upgrade for us. But it is NOT.

Called the Factory Customer service line to find out just what warranty the dealer had performed or had submitted claims for. After giving then the VIN, I was told that this is not public information and they would discuss with me any of the warranty claims submitted by the dealer for the new unit I had just purchased. It seems that Keystone "Customer Service" is in name only. They are there to protect the dealers.

I called my salesman to let him know that it appeared there could be a DLAM problem on the front panel. I told him about the adjuster asking if this was the DLAM unit she was to be looking at. I told him that in my opinion that they had sold me a unit with a known DLAM problem and that they had replaced the rear FILON. He denied it all. The sales manager said they would never do that. When the service Dept called me to for me to come in, it was not to look at the trailer; it was to drop it off to perform warranty service on the front FILON. They did not even want look at it to confirm that there was a problem; they wanted to schedule a time to drop it off so they could replace the front FILON. So, they apparently knew there was a problem when they sold it to me and neglected to tell me. By the way, I had NOT told them that I had already taken the trailer to another RV body shop and they confirmed that the front FILON had a DELAM problem.

[Festus2]

Sorry to hear about the delamination problems with your Passport. Hopefully, something can be worked out with both the dealer and Keystone to make this right for you.

Regarding the other problems you mentioned ....
Is it possible that your hitch set-up needs to be readjusted so that your trailer doesn't porpoise while being towed? It may be that all it needs is some "fine-tuning" to eliminate the up and down movement. On some roads, this will happen no matter how good your set up is -- for both TT's and 5ers.
Rear kitchen models are prone to having stuff fall out of the cupboards - especially when travelling over bumpy roads. There are some steps you can take to greatly reduce the chances of this happening. Put "Scoot Guard" or some other similar material on the shelves to reduce movement. I stuff a pillow in the dishware cupboard to prevent dishes from sliding around. Additional latches have been installed to prevent cupboard doors from coming open while on the road.
Loose screws in handles and hinges are not uncommon. Yes, over-torquing is a problem in some units and when the hole becomes enlarged/stripped, you can always use a toothpick and some glue to reset the screws in the hole.
Not having a stove vent to the outside is a concern with many campers and members - you are not alone in your frustration in this regard. Some members have installed Fantastic Fans as a fix and this seems to work in most cases. It is more or less agreed here that Keystone needs to take a look at this "self-exhausting" system and redesign it as it doesn't do the job that it is supposed to do.

Hopefully, your main problem regarding delamination can be addressed to your satisfaction.

[Pete and Jeanne]

Gotta agree with Festus2..I was told by the saleperson that the vent fan was vented to the outside..even after I pointed out the construction would not allow that..AND the screws...ah...the screws..Take a deep breath, buy a box of toothpicks and some Elmers glue..take out the stripped screws..put a dab of glue on the end of a pick..shove pick into hole vacated by screw..let glue dry, break off pick flush with edge of hole..replace screw....repeat as necessary. Not trying to be sarcastic..just realistic UC. Oh another thing you may want to do, if your unit has infloor heat reginsters unscrew the grate, fold a paper towel in half, place over register and replace grate. This saves a lot of cleaning before you have to use the heater. Don't forget to remove the paper towels prior to turning on the heat. Sorry about the DELAM. Keep the pressure on until it's ALL good.

[SAABDOCTOR]

Sorry to hear about the delamination keep the heat on them to get it fixed. i have a cure for the screws. stop by a hobby shop that deals in model airplanes. (r/c) get some thick CA like ZAP is or JET. remove the screw and squirt a small dab of ca in the hole and wipe the excess asap. then run the screw back in the glue sets up in 30 seconds. the screw is in there till you remove it! and the vent well i am with you that design stinks but festus has some sound advice.:D

[Unhappy Camper]

Thanks for the condolences and advice. I had already thought of the Fantastic Fan idea. I put one in my old trailer. They really are fantastic. I should not have to test and reset screws on a new trailer.

The dealer did such a messy job of replacing the back Filon panel I do not think I want them to touch the front panel.

I have not registered the trailer with the state. I REALLY want to just return the whole damn mess and get my $$$ back. Then they can fix it up and sell it as new to someone else.

The truck and trailer can buck so much on California HWY 405 and HWY 5 (concrete) I think that it is beyond hitch tweaking. My wife says she feel like she suffers from shaken baby syndrome.

[Unhappy Camper]

My Dealer has already submitted a request to Keystone to fix the front. But given their lousy workmanship on the rear filon panel I don't want them to touch it again. Keystone has given me the names of a few other dealers in the Denver area.

One of the dealers is the one I took the trailer to to get the front looked at to see if it really was DELAM. They also have a complete body and paint shop.

But still working of getting the dealer to take the damn thing back. Better Business Bureau, lawyers, and state attorney general's office.

[Festus2]

I think you have to acknowledge that there are some sections of some highways that are "brutal" if you are towing an RV - especially some of the older concrete ones. And, as you pointed out, no amount of "tweaking" is going to eliminate a rough ride. Now is that the result of shoddy workmanship by Keystone or the result of a rough section of freeway?

I've pulled my 5th through Interstate 5 in Seattle and there are some sections of it that are really bad in that it almost feels like you have a flat tire. I can't blame Keystone for the rough ride. The highway is what it is so I am left to put up with a spell of ups and downs or find an alternate route.

I would venture to guess that there are many members who have had to reset the screws in the handles and hinges. Over time, they work themselves loose and; because they are embedded in particle board, the hole that is left enlarges and the screw just can't simply be retightened. It has to be reset using some other method such as the one that has been described above.
This type of repair and maintenance is common and ongoing.

The delamination problem is different issue and one that you will have to try to resolve in some way that is acceptable to you - either by asking for a refund or by letting some repair facility that you feel confident in go ahead with the work so that your RV is back to the way you want it.

Good luck in your negotiations.

[Unhappy Camper]

Festus2 --- Thanks for the input. I would expect to have to fix screws after a period of time. But I would not expect to find loose hinges and many other screws in hinges that were not loose that would fail tests for proper tightness on a new just delivered RV. This kind of shoddy workmanship was not expected from one of the leading RV manufactures. I will have to fix about 40% of the screws in a brand new RV.

Right now I am very disappointed with Keystone assembly quality.

[Javi]

As a fellow Passport owner I hate to pop your bubble but a Passport ain't a top of the line trailer.. It is an entry level trailer.. That said, I do agree that the workmanship is lacking... but in today's world if you want quality... you have to pay more.... much more

I've accepted that my trailer isn't a Hilton but rather it's a motel 6... The hinges are gonna be loose and need tightening, the assist handles are gonna pull loose if you grab them and pull too hard, the commode and water fixtures are plastic and will break at the least use and the furniture is light weight at best.... but hey we didn't spend a $100K did we...

Get the de-lam fixed and enjoy having to fix the little things every time you go out..

I figure that by the time I get done fixing and replacing stuff... I could have spent the $100K and been ahead:D

[JRTJH]

Javi, Now that is definitely a positive attitude. I totally agree with you. Enjoy what you have, don't sit and stare at it and be a grump because it's not perfect.

We bought a new Airstream in 1968. Back when Wally Byam was still in charge and they were being built 1 at a time in a converted airplane factory. We thought buying the top of the line trailer would give us total and complete perfection. After all, it cost $8500. Yeah, seems cheap at today's prices, but in 1968, 28' Foresters, or Prowlers or Scotty's were going for $1500 - $2000.

Anyway, to make a long story short, driving off the lot, the back bumper/electric cord storage area bottom fell off, dragging the electric cord down the highway. When we got to the campground about 5 miles from the dealership and realized what had happened, I turned around and headed back. When we got to the dealer's lot, we opened the trailer door and the table that folds out of the wall had separated from the sidewall and was laying against the kitchen counter and had torn the fabric on the sofa cushions where the screws had rubbed against the sofa. Apparently, the bottom of the electrical storage area had only been held in place with 2 rivets, one on each side. The factory had not gone back and bucked the rest of the rivets and they fell out over the road when the trailer was towed from the factory at Cerritos to the dealer in Los Angeles. I might add that after those two issues were fixed, we never had another problem with that trailer, but it sure was an "evil start" in ownership.

I might also add that the cabinet hinge screws in my house loosen and need tightening and adjustment from time to time. Those cabinets sit in one place and never move. I would suspect that if I were towing my house down the highway at 65MPH I'd be tightening screws in the house more often than I do in the RV.

So, buying the "top of the line" doesn't always guarantee trouble free operation.

As for "entry level" trailers, I also have that "honor" of owning an entry level and I can honestly say that it's been as trouble free as many of the more expensive RVs we've owned.

It is unfortunate that the OP is having some issues with delamination, but it sounds like from his discussion that an adjuster was trying to get it set up for repair and he told her that it wasn't necessary, he just bought the RV. There are more owners than just himself with delamination issues. I know of one other that posted pictures here of his week old trailer and we all advised him to return it for repair. That's simply the nature of FILON. When it's good, it's good, but when it gets slightly damp on the back side and is installed, or if any moisture gets behind it, it's not long before the damage shows up. Fortunately, in every case that I'm aware of, Keystone has "made it right" for the owner if it's been within a reasonable time. We've heard of cases out of warranty by a year or more and Keystone has stepped up to the plate for owners.

While the OP may have high expectations for his RV, as you stated so well, It's a piece of equipment and not the top of the line at that. Enjoy it for what it is, and don't expect it to ever be trouble free. Even the best have problems.

[Javi]

Yep my trailer has been pretty much trouble free if you rule out the small stuff that anyone should expect from an entry level trailer... The one exception was the black tank plumbing and in fairness that was more on the dealer who failed to test the valves before delivery... Yes it was a factory screw-up but a good dealer make ready program would have caught the deficiency and it would have been a moot point to me... The rest has been the usual loose screws, flimsy construction and cheap furniture... But I lay part of that on the DW and I because we are both large folks... I top out at a little under 300 lbs..and that wears on stuff that a normal sized person wouldn't notice.. This trailer is gonna last us till we retire and then it will be turned into a much better equipped and constructed 5'er...

[81SHOVELHEAD]

Festus ,Saabdoctor ,Javi ,& the many others here are the best .
You guys have so much knowledge & turn a bad situation into a more pleasant one is a gift.
Just looking & reading this post demonstrates that .
When i first read the post i could fill myB/P rising just a bit but you guys stepped up to the plate & said all the right things in such a calming way that even i who has not purchased my RV yet feel better & now know to expect there will be minor issues regardless of the price you pay for the unit .(tx)
I now know when i get mine (b4 end of December i hope ) i have a place to go to help me through the stress of RV ownership .
Thanks for being here for us Newbies guys .
Mike D.

[SAABDOCTOR]

81 Shovelhead. I always try to take the "stress" pout of anything i can. the good news is preperation can help. take the pdi sticky in the froum with you transfer some stress to the dealer be fore you sign. all the small things that you read about. like the screws, look at them for a bit have a adult beverage or 2 then come up with a plan to fix it better than the line guys did at the factory. then when it pops up here pass along what you learned. and you will feel good knowing you to helped someone avoid the stress. I love playing with my 5er keeps my hands and mind workin.Nothing like owning a camper. it's an adventure, hobby. learning tool and a hideout all rolled into one. enjoy all the adventures to come when you get yours. please stay in touch we are all in this together.:banghead:

[tanman32225]

I am really surprised the number of passive people. Just sit back and take what the builder gives and be happy.. Baloney I say. Whether top of the line or bottom the workmanship should be acceptable. The quality of materials may not be but stripped screws repeatedly isn't acceptable in a Kia or a Cadillac and It should not be in a camper either. I think the de-lam is a very valid complaint and if significant body work was done to the unit prior to delivery I feel the dealer has the obligation to disclose that to the buyer.

I would not sit back until either the dealer or manufacture made it right in regards to your displeasure. Your probably not going to get a refund but could if you wished to pursue it in court which could be costly or at least to the point where the manufacture / dealer wanted to settle out of court in most cases.

Check with your state and see if there is a lemon law and if it covers RV's. If not I think there is a Fed law under the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act that gives consumers some leverage.

The other minor things like a screen falling and/or a screw missing or something not hooked up right is normal mass production errors just like automobiles and must be tolerated since quality control is not the highest.

In our new Dutchmen not one screw have I found stripped, and the major issue with it was the pull down rear screen in the TH part. Quality control was much higher. There were other minor things like cable ends not tight on tv's causing static but nothing major. When I complained to the dealer then manufacture about the location of the galley gray water pull handle they moved it and made it more accessible for me.

Good lick and stay on them or change dealers. That means alot too.

[SAABDOCTOR]

tannman I am not a passive person. i weight my time back to the dealer and determan if that is worth it. some people have to drive several hours. i my case fixing some screws is not worth the drive. and that is if it is at home.. if it is major like delamination. you bet i'll be back at the dealer..no manufacturer is perfect. I am not you are not! mistakes get made. it is just how wound up do you want to get. if you feel you need to go back to the dealer for every problem, well that is your right and choice. me i enjoy the time spent fixing it myself. but i will not accept shoddy workmanship either. i did havean issue with poor workmanship at one delaer he chose not to take care of it. ok call me passive i bought my next one from another dealer. never got th b/p up just went some place ealse!:banghead: i'll step off my soap box now.. i truly hope keystone and the dealer make good on the problems.

[Randy_K]

I will not be picking up my trailer until spring. The dealer has a campground and i will be spending the weekend there upon picking up the unit. I don't plan on paying until i have spent the two days checking out everything. No way i would pay before the inspection.

Randy

[zuley]

I'm hoping to pick mine up Randy a few days before you do. That way any broken or defective parts found on mine can be borrowed from yours. :)

[Unhappy Camper]

UPDATE: Salesman & Sales Manager denied that the rear FILON panel had been replaced prior to delivery. Called dealer's GM. GM said he had no knowledge that REAR FILON was replaced prior to delivery and that he would have been in the loop if it had. Sent letter GM describing in detail about sloppy workmanship on the rear FILON that made it obvious that it had been replaced.

He called me back the next day to say that the rear had indeed been replaced for a DELAM problem after I purchased the unit and prior to delivery. The dealership takes pride in doing better than factory quality workmanship.

The unit still needs to have the front FILON panel replaced. I am not sure I want my dealer to perform the work. The factory customer service has supplied a list of dealerships in the Denver area who are authorized. One of which has a full paint and body shop. I took the PASSPORT to them before talking with the dealer. They confirmed that the front panel had DELAM.

I still want to negotiate a return of the unit. Both front and rear FILON panels have DELAM---WOW. Maybe it was built on the wrong day of the week.

[Outbackmel]

10 second set time on Loc Tite in small tubes at W mart. Always keep some in the rv.

[Unhappy Camper]

Does Loc Tite work with wood?

[JRTJH]

Does Loc Tite work with wood?

Loctite blue, red or green thread sealant commonly used in engine rebuilding and mechanical assembly where metal/metal contact requires thread security is not appropriate for wood/metal work (metal screws in wood cabinets), however Loctite SealTite is appropriate and can be found at almost any hardware store, WalMart, Kmart and Target.

[Javi]

Loctite blue, red or green thread sealant commonly used in engine rebuilding and mechanical assembly where metal/metal contact requires thread security is not appropriate for wood/metal work (metal screws in wood cabinets), however Loctite SealTite is appropriate and can be found at almost any hardware store, WalMart, Kmart and Target.

I always keep a tube of Loctite blue on hand for those peskey screws that are prone to back out of the vent knobs and other metal on metal spots where I may someday NEED to remove the screw... :D

[Bushman512000]

use a drop of the Wifes nail polish it will hold as well as lock tight..Bushman:D

[JRTJH]

JAVI,

I also keep a small container of Loctite red and blue in the shop. I looked the other day and I've got Weldwood contact cement, some latex contact cement, gorilla glue, two bottles of tan wood glue, a couple packages of JB Weld, 5 minute epoxy, epoxy sticks, a host of silicone tubes, Dicor, Sikaflex and 2 or 3 partly used rolls of butyl putty tape. I tried gathering it all up to put in one place and yesterday I noticed a couple more that I need to put with the rest.

I'd guess that I'm getting to be "adhesive poor" with all the stuff I need to do almost any job. What happened to the good old days of just having a tube of general purpose glue and a tube of Form A Gasket was all we needed to fix almost everything? Or maybe it almost fixed everything and didn't really fix anything? LOL

[SAABDOCTOR]

well john if we stop hearing from you we will know that you ticked of the dw and she stuck you to the wall of the shop:D

[JRTJH]

well john if we stop hearing from you we will know that you ticked of the dw and she stuck you to the wall of the shop:D

We live about 15 miles from town and to make a special trip to get something costs about $20 or so. I make it a habit to keep things I'd use around for the convenienve of not having to stop and run to town as well as saving the cost of special trips that can add up to a complete vacation if we saved the money. So, that is a real possibility Barney.

Now that it's colder and I'm wearing wool more and more and there's 3 or 4 rolls of Velcro laying around out there somewhere..... :eek:

[Unhappy Camper]

UPDATE: After Filing Complaint to the Colorado Automotive Industry Dept (Dealer Licensing Board) Windish RV Center in Lakewood has addressed my concerns.

[antiqfreq]

Please continue to keep us updated.

Jo

(tx)

[SAABDOCTOR]

good luck keep us posted

[Unhappy Camper]

The Dealer now owns the Passport. I am out 1K to dealer and 1.5K to Atty. Considering I took the unit on a 2K Mi Trip, it is OK. I did not have to try to sell the damn thing.

[Escs36]

Holy cow! So accountability does still exist in America. Congratulations!

[CampDestinations.com]

The Dealer now owns the Passport. I am out 1K to dealer and 1.5K to Atty. Considering I took the unit on a 2K Mi Trip, it is OK. I did not have to try to sell the damn thing.

Good for you. I too have a Passport, and it was delivered to me in perfect condition. I didn't experience any of the problems you described, but I think that is likely attributed to the dealer - sounds like you got a real crappy one. I know mine spent hours going over every detail with me - not because I requested it, but because that's what they do. Found only one problem during that PDI and it was a loose support leg on the foldout sleeper in the back. They had it fixed in 10 minutes. Dealers are the last line of quality control, but some don't seem to care about that. Glad you got out of that deal.

[Unhappy Camper]

I agree that the dealer should be the last line of quality control. The owner of my dealership told me to my face that regularly deliver new units that still require warranty work but will only do the warranty work on items the customer notices and returns for service. It seems to me the some dealers are there to protect the factory from warranty claims. Many of the difficiences on my unit were items I could have fixed myself. But I purchased a new fully assembled trailer not a trailer kit.

[Escs36]

You bring up a fascinating point: perhaps the dealers get paid more money for warranty work after unit has been sold as opposed to "finishing" a trailer....

[crash]

Sounds just like the problems we had when we bought a 2012 salem hemishere 292fk back in march of last year,only had it 5 months and had problem after problem every time we went out we had to take it back to the dealer when we got home they had for atotal of 5weeks out of 5months.I finally got so:banghead: w/ it I made a big stick about it on forest rivers and salems facebook page and there site forum that they bought it back from us .We paid $29.500 for it and they gave us $28.000 for it so we were happy to unload it.Hope everthing works out for you.