"Cheap Heat" RV furnace add-on

[geo]

When winter rolls around, many postings turn to asking about RV heating. This will be my third winter on the Forum, and I have never seen this subject discussed.

Disclaimer! I have no financial interest or obligation in the following product. Believe it or not, I have not done this modification. I saw this mod being discussed on a different forum and only wanted to share.

Website: http://www.rvcomfortsystems.com/

Evidently the Cheap Heat system is an after-market add-on for standard RV furnaces. It is a heating element and furnace control package which converts the furnace to use either shorepower or standard propane. If you look at the website, this unit attaches between the propane heating chamber and the distribution plenum of Suburban or Atwood furnaces. One can disengage the propane and activate the electric heating elements. In this mode, the furnace fan runs to circulate air, but the heat is supplied by resistive electrical strips. Similar to home electrical heat. One can shift back to propane heat at any time. Due to the way that RV furnaces operate, outside air will be drawn through the combustion chamber when the fan is running. This might cause some internal condensation inside the heat exchanger since there will be no propane produced heat, only cool air.

There is a DYI kit, but it is a heat duct add-on. It appears that the actual furnace add-on can only be installed by a professional RV repair/maintenance person.

I thought some of the full-timers or near-full-timers on this Forum might be interested to know about this product. This is not meant to be an advertisement.

Ron

[hankaye]

geo, Howdy;

When I was in Mount Pleasant, Ut. the cost was $0.16 per kw/hr.
Here in N.M. the Park charges what El Paso Power charges them,
$0.15 per kw/hr. My avgerage (there is only me and Rascal, no
washer dryer, dishwasher, nor any electrical heating suppliments),
was for 6 months of N.M. Winter was $55.00.
My propane cost during the same period was, $89.00 per month AVG..

My opinion about the "Add-on" and supplimental heat is that I'm just throwin'
$'s to the elect. Co.

Think that if I were to add a secondary heat source it would be propane.
(Hank Hill would be proud of me :D).

ALL of the above is solely MY OPINION, based upon my experiences. No scientific methods were employed.

hankaye

[JRTJH]

Looking at the information provided (there is no specific electrical requirements that I found), it appears that the 30 amp service is equivalent to a 20K BTU furnace. Using RVComfortSystem's own information, (a gas furnace is 45% inefficient) and there is a 2.5 minute "air purge run cycle" that makes the 30 AMP system able to produce about 6000 BTU's. The Coleman add on heat strip for A/C's produces 5600 BTU, so the RV Comfort System appears (I can't be positive because there is no electrical input amperage available) to provide about the same heat availability as the A/C heat strip. Most 15 AMP electric heaters produce about 6000 BTU at full power.

The 50 AMP service does appear to provide significantly more, however, since the 50 AMP service is "really just two lines of 115VAC, the RV Comfot System electric add on would produce about 12,000 BTU. That is consistent with their marketing claim of being equivalent to a 40K propane furnace with its enefficiency and cool run cycle losses.

It looks like the system may be a little better than an A/C heat strip because the heat enters the RV from the floor and rises (A/C heat enters at the ceiling) so it might seem warmer. It would provide some heat for the basement duct (holding tanks, water lines, etc), but that would take away from the full 6,000 BTU available inside the cabin of the RV.

Bottom line, I think, is that the 30 AMP model roughly capable of providing half the heat generated by a 20K BTU furnace. Almost all Keystone RV's have a 35K furnace, so it won't equal what you currently have installed. Augment it? Yes, but it won't replace it. And, from what I see, you have to choose to either use propane or electric, you can't have both. With the A/C heat strip, (with separtate thermostats) you can use both, so the A/C heat strip can augment the furnace to give additional heat, but this system only uses one or the other.

50 AMP, however, may well provide an alternative heat source without the use of propane in moderate climates, but I'm still not sure about how well 12,000 BTU will heat a 35' fifth wheel during a very cold winter storm.

I couldn't find any pricing information, so there's no way to determine the cost of ownership to the "break even" point.

I did request they send me the information on converting 30 AMP RV service to 50 AMPs. Once I get that information, I'll share it with anyone who would like. Just PM me and I'll forward their conversion data to you.

[jerseyphil]

About 2 years ago, on the advice of a forum friend, I purchased a Broan model 6201 portable electric heater. It has a fan-only setting and 2 heat settings, low (1200 watts) and high (1500 watts). There is a thermostat and a tip-over shut-off safety mechanism.

This unit is about 6 inches in all directions (small), but the heat it puts out is amazing. Last month, my wife and I slept in the RV for 2 weeks when our daughter and her family visited. Several nights went down to the low 40's. On those nights I used the cube heater. Had the furnace set for 65 degrees, and it never went on.

The unit cost me $60. 2 years ago. I don't know what it costs now, but it is worth it.

Phil

[geo]

See, I knew I would start something! :D or is it :yawn: ?

Hankaye - You are correct that depending upon the area of the country, electricity and propane are very competitive. And by that, you are correct. If you do the KW/BTU electricity versus the #/BTU propane costs, it does come out either very competitive or better on the propane side. The plus of electricity is that the electrical strips are more efficent at heating air - less loss out the combustion gas port. The minus is that the whole process of producing electricity is not that efficient. Best idea is to do what works best for your area. Just like you are doing!

In other parts of the country, it's not as competitive. In Texas, we produce 51% of our electricity from natural gas, plus Texas is on its own, and controls its own, power grid independent of the rest of the Nation. Our LPG gases also supply quite a few plastic production facilities besides shipping our LPG out for sale in places like NM and UT, plus plastic production elsewhere, etc. So here in the traffic-ridden areas of Texas, electricity is cheaper.

John - Yes, it would be interesting to know a little more about pricing. There was nothing on the DRV forum that talked pricing, even though a few people had purchased the Cheap Heat and had it installed. I would be very interested to know what you find out.

Phil - Yes, you are correct. I don't think there are very many RVers out ther who haven't used some type of electric heater in their RV. We have a couple of heaters in the "garage pile" right now! But unless you do something like I did on the Alpine, you do not utilize Keystone's tank valve heating system that is touted as part of their Arctic/Polar/Glacier Package. (Get the sticker next to the door?) First you heat the interior of the RV, then start pulling basement walls off to put heaters there to keep the pipes and tanks from freezing. Etc. That's why I only wanted to mention the Cheap Heat - it uses the same ducting that Keystone counts on to make that "next to door sticker" good. Now on those nights when it doesn't freeze, just heating the living quarters is very viable. But when the "frost is on the pun'kin", one has to think about frozen tanks.


Ron

[wgb1]

At 495 bucks for the one that fits a ducted system, I'll just continue to use my milkhouse style electric heater that keeps the entire RV warm. NotSoCheapheat perhaps. But then again, I do not typically camp in really cold weather where I am concerned about keeping the underbelly warm and lines freezing.

[hankaye]

geo, Howdy;

The elect. Co. that supplies my section of N.M. is El Paso Elect.
They just bumped the rate up to $0.17 per Kw/hr. I know that
it ain't hydro electric as the Rio Grand is dusty dry ...

hankaye

[mikell]

The cheap heat requires a second power cord if I recall. Thats not allowed in our park. Next year were charging $5 extra for 50 amps because everybody wants 50 but most only have a 30 amp cord then an adapter so the people that really need 50 we don't have spots for. Many of our pedistals have 50 and 30 and several times we go to rent a 50 spot only to find the next door has an adapter and is plugged into the 50. So we have to switch them out

[Johnnyfry]

The electric conversion to heat is a constant. 3,412 BTU = 1 KW/hr. electric heat is always 100% efficient. So, a 30 amp 120 volt heating element produces 12,283 BTU/ hour. No more, no less.

There is no magic here. BTW: a gallon of propane produces about 93,000 BTU.

John