Cleaning Tank Monitor Sensors

[GBHRPS]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
Have an 04 285 Cougar 5er that was purchased just before the end of last year's trailering season. Have noticed that the tank level monitor system doesn't reflect what the actual fluid levels are. As I recall, the freshwater tank read 1/4 when actually filled to overflowing, and the blackwater tank level was 1/4 and also full.

I can appreciate that the blackwater tank may need to be scrubbed to clean the ends of its sensors that are inside the tank. The freshwater tanks sensors shouldn't need the same however.

After seeing in an RV parts catalogue that these sensors are really just a small bolt that goes through the centre of an expanding rubber plug, (tightening the bolt causes the rubber to expand and seal the opening in the side of the holding tank) I'm wondering if the problem is elsewhere.

I'm wondering if the electrical connection on the outside of the sensor is corroded and not feeding the monitor panel correctly.

Has anyone ever pulled off the underbelly pan and checked and cleaned the terminals of these tank sensors? What did you find?

I'm really trying to decide whether its worth the time for me to tackle the job. Any advice?

Gene

[Festus2]

Holding tank sensors and the readings you get from them are not something you should put much faith in. They are, at best, unreliable - especially the grey and black water tank readings. I have tried to keep both of those tanks clean and rinsed out but the readings I get vary - sometimes they seem to be fairly accurate and at other times I never quite know.
I have looked at installing different and apparently more accurate and reliable sensors but the cost involved just isn't worth it to me. Over the years, I have learned to put up with the inconvenience - knowing that the readings I get, most of the time , are not accurate. I am not about to pull off the underbelly to check and clean the sensors knowing that it probably won't make a difference.
When the crud starts coming up through the sink and toilet - then you know it is time to empty !!!

[GBHRPS]

Festus2,
I agree with you that when the tanks overflow ..... then you know they are full and need emptying. But I paid for a working monitor system and it drives me crazy that it doesn't work correctly. Sort of like the rattle in the dash of a new car that you can't trace down. For some people it just wouldn't matter. For me .... I've got to track the bast**d down or it'll drive me nuts. (My bride says that I'm anal retentive.)

Gene

[Festus2]

Just kidding about the bubbling and gurgling sounds coming from the sinks and toilet. I don't wait THAT long! Good luck in finding a long-term (and cheap) solution to this problem. These unreliable read-outs used to bother me but with the onset of senility and old age, I can't remember what the problem was. My advice to you..... listen to your bride. They are always right.

[probablecause]

Festus2,
I agree with you that when the tanks overflow ..... then you know they are full and need emptying. But I paid for a working monitor system and it drives me crazy that it doesn't work correctly. Sort of like the rattle in the dash of a new car that you can't trace down. For some people it just wouldn't matter. For me .... I've got to track the bast**d down or it'll drive me nuts. (My bride says that I'm anal retentive.)

Gene
Mine went crazy after several months of ownership of my 3612DS. I have looked into getting aftermarket ones but my belly (of the toy hauler) is covered with foam type sheets of thick cardboard material that I am really not too interested in removing and trying to get back on.

[Flyguy]

I remember reading about a formular which consisted of liquid detergent and I don't know what else that an RV'er used in the holding tanks that cleaned the sensors and started them working again, but I seem to have lost that file and if I find it I will post it to this thread.

[Jim W]

Our on board monitors were always 1/3 full for the black water tank. Never could get them to read correctly. I must have spent $60 in cleaning products to clean them, such as tissue digester, Level gauge cleaner and such.
One day while talking to a fellow camper about this problem he mention that his monitors were always correct and read correctly. I asked him how did he get them to work correctly? His statement was to use 4 to 5 (5 gallon) buckets full of water and flush this down the toilet. I tried this and it seems to work at least on the black water tank.
We bought a clear connector that allows you to see when the waste is running clear. My DW dumps the water as I fill the water buckets for her and check to make sure it is running clear.
Also the grand kids think this is way cool to watch.
Jim

[Flyguy]

Here's a post I found on Maintaining your RV holding tanks and I quote the post here:

1. DUMP A FULL TANK
When you are camping and your RV is connected to a sewer/septic intake, leave the drain valves closed until the tank is full and ready to dump. Dumping a full tank provides a sufficient quantity of water to flush solids from the tank. Leaving the drain valves open allows the water to drain off without flushing out solid waste. That solid waste will collect in the tank(s) and cause problems over time.

2. DUMP TANKS IN ORDER FROM DIRTIEST TO CLEANEST
In other words, dump the black (commode) water tank first, then dump the galley tank, then dump the shower and bathroom sink tank. This way you will be flushing out the dirtiest water with progressively cleaner water.

3. USE WATER SOFTENER
This stuff is amazing and it works. Buy a couple of boxes of powdered water softener at the grocery store. You’ll find it located with or near the laundry detergent products. I prefer Calgon Water Softener because it dissolves quickly in water. Cheaper water softeners work just as well but dissolve more slowly. Dissolve two (2) cups of the water softener in a gallon of hot water. Then, pour the solution down the drain into the empty tank. Use two cups of softener for each wastewater tank in your RV. The tank’s drain valve should be closed otherwise the softened water will just drain out. Then use the tank(s) normally until it is full and drain it normally. Add a cup of laundry detergent to the black (commode) water tank at the same time. This will help clean the tank.The gray water tanks should already contain soap through normal use.

The water softener makes the solid waste let go from the sides of the tanks. If you’ve ever taken a shower in softened water you know that after rinsing the soap from your body your skin will feel slick. That’s because all the soap rinses away with soft water. Softened water also prevents soap scum from sticking in the tub. Get the connection? With softened water gunk washes away instead of sticking. The same thing applies to your RV’s wastewater tanks.

I use one of those clear plastic elbow connectors to attach my sewer drain line to the wastewater outlet on my RV. It allows me to see how well things are progressing during a wastewater dump. Before I began using water softener regularly the black water tank’s water was brown, the galley tank’s water was brownish, and the bathroom tank’s water was white. The first time I added water softener to the tanks the water coming from the black water tank was actually black (not brown) and the kitchen tank’s water was also black (not brownish). The bathroom tank’s water remained white. That told me that the water softener had actually done what I had intended for it to do and made solid waste, which had been stuck to the interior of the tanks, let go and drain away. I added water softener to all the wastewater tanks for the next few dumps to be certain all the solid waste possible had been cleaned away. The wastewater only appeared black on the initial treatment. I now add water softener to each tank once after every few dumps to maintain the system.

Occasionally, I pour a gallon of liquid bleach into each tank to sanitize and disinfect them. I no longer use the blue toilet chemical because it isn’t necessary. I have no odors coming from my black water tank. Generic brand liquid bleach is cheap and very effective.

4. USE A WATER FILTER ON YOUR FRESH WATER INTAKE LINE

Most fresh water contains sediment. Sediment will accumulate in your wastewater tanks and your fresh water lines. It also tends to discolor your sinks, tub/shower, and commode. I use the disposable type and have found that they eventually fill up and begin restricting the fresh water flow resulting in low pressure. That’s how I know it’s time to get a new filter. It works, it’s cheap, it avoids problems, do it.

SOME OTHER THOUGHTS
• I believe occasionally traveling with partially filled wastewater tanks that contain softened water promotes cleaning by agitating the water. The same goes for chlorine bleach.
• I believe this process works faster and more efficiently during warm weather. However, I know it works well even during cool/cold weather.
• I believe the process works best the longer the water softener remains in the tanks. So, I don’t add water softener during periods of heavy wastewater generation. I wait until I know we won’t be generating wastewater quickly so that the softened water remains in the tanks for several days before dumping.
• I add a small amount of chlorine bleach to the fresh water tank twice a year to disinfect and sanitize the fresh water tank and fresh water lines. A weak chlorine bleach solution will not hurt you. However, it certainly makes the water taste bad. When we have chlorine in the fresh water system we use bottled water for drinking and cooking until the chlorine is gone.
• My tanks are plastic and my pipes are PVC.
• Don’t be afraid to use your tanks. Just use common sense about their care and maintenance.
• These tips are inexpensive to do. Some of them don’t cost anything. You have nothing to lose in trying them and I encourage you to do so. I actually feel a certain amount of pride in the condition and cleanliness of both my waste and fresh water systems. Naturally, these tips make dumping a much more pleasant and sanitary procedure.
• If you have odors in any of your water systems these procedures should eliminate them. Odors indicate a sanitary problem and degrade the enjoyment you derive from your RV.
• When my RV is parked and not in use I place stoppers in my sink and tub drains. This allows the wastewater tanks to vent through the vent pipes to the outside instead of through the drains into the RV. (Copyright (c) Charles Bruni )

[Festus2]

Found this "recipe" online. With tanks empty and valves closed, pour 2 cups of water softener into 1 gallon of hot water. Dump equal amounts into the sinks, toilet, etc. Follow this by pouring a gallon of warm water mixed with 1/2 cup of powdered laundry detergent into the toilet. Don't pour into the kitchen sink as it already has enough detergent coming into it already. Lastly, pour a mix of bleach and sufficient water into the holding tanks.
It was also suggested to try putting ice cubes down the toilet just prior to you leaving and the motion of the unit as it travels down the road causes the ice cubes to rub up against the inner black holding tank walls and act as a scrubber - cleaning the crud off the walls and sensors.
Using a water softener such as Calgon may make the sides of the tank more slippery and make it more difficult for crud to stick to the sides and sensors. I usually add some Calgon to a bucket of water and toss this down the sinks and toilets after I empty the tanks. Seems to help.

[GBHRPS]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for all of the suggestions! We're three weeks away from our first trip this year and I'll try some of the suggestions out and see if it makes any difference.
Gene

[Flyguy]

Here's the file that I was looking for, so here's one more cure for the dump tanks and the sensors:

Got this recipe from another site and tried it at my trailer. Presto.... it really works.
Cuts the smell and cleans the inside of your tank.
In a pail mix 2 cups of water SOFTENER (Calgon) with 1 gallon of hot water until it dissolves. Pour into toilet and flush it through. Then add 1 cup of dry (not liquid) laundry detergent and flush it down. That’s it........ This brew deodorizes, breaks down solids and best of all, it coats the inside of the tank so nothing sticks to the sides etc.
My black water sensors have not worked for over a year because of buildup. After one treatment....... they are working properly again.

As far as the undercover goes, my Passport has one also, it looks to be held on by bolts, I have never taken it off and only pulled a portion down to look at the dump valves themselves, at the time I was trying to reduce the size of the dump valve extensions, I got them off and cut them down so they would not be as flimsey, I was always afraid that the handles would catch on somthing as we were traveling, but I would not be afraid to lower the whole thing if it became neccessary, just would have to recaulk the areas that protrude through it with that expandable foam.

[Bigk]

My black water tank sensor wasn't working properly after about a month of ownership (bought 5ver used). I had it professionally cleaning for $75 and haven't had a problem since.

[Camper Dawn]

Hi, I have a ? when you say Calgon Water Softener are you talking about the stuff you put in bathwater or some thing else thanks Dawn

[Festus2]

The box of Calgon Water Softener that we have indicates that it is to be used for laundry purposes - to soften hard water and as a cleaning aid. There is also a warning on the box regarding it being an irritant and not to get it on your skin. In view of that, I am not sure I would want to add any to the bathwater!

[JRTJH]

The box of Calgon Water Softener that we have indicates that it is to be used for laundry purposes - to soften hard water and as a cleaning aid. There is also a warning on the box regarding it being an irritant and not to get it on your skin. In view of that, I am not sure I would want to add any to the bathwater!

AWWWWW Festus, Live "brave" People say you have a "thick skin" LOL :D

[THedges]

The laundry water softener works great! I've been using it faithfully for a few years now.

[wgb1]

But I paid for a working monitor system and it drives me crazy that it doesn't work correctly. Sort of like the rattle in the dash of a new car that you can't trace down. For some people it just wouldn't matter. For me .... I've got to track the bast**d down or it'll drive me nuts. (My bride says that I'm anal retentive.)

HA! We must be one in the same. I feel EXACTLY the same way. When you pay 20,000 to 30,000 for something, it darn well better work flawlessly. Thats exactly why I have stated in the past that RV manufacturers have a long way to go to achieve satisfactory QCQA (quality control/quality assurance) as far as I am concerned. I looked at a TON of RVs for years before purchasing and I have to say they all, regardless of manufacturer, look thrown together.

[Festus2]

On the contrary, JRTJH, my skin is neither thick nor tough but thin, sensitive and wrinkled. Too much time spent in epsom salt bathwater, I'm afraid. Might try your advice and "live strong".......will throw in a cupful of Calgon next time. :D

[Camper Dawn]

The box of Calgon Water Softener that we have indicates that it is to be used for laundry purposes - to soften hard water and as a cleaning aid. There is also a warning on the box regarding it being an irritant and not to get it on your skin. In view of that, I am not sure I would want to add any to the bathwater!

thanks, I did not know there was a laundry calgon. I went to two stores the only one I could find is a liquid not a powder do you think thats ok
thanks Dawn

[THedges]

The liquid works fine.

[geo]

Festus2 is correct - most all products that contain sodium carbonate do list it as being able to cause skin irratations. After all, ancient Egyptians used salts containing sodium carbonate in the mummification process! If you opened a box of Calgon Water Softener or Arm & Hammer Washing Soda, dumped some in your hand, put it to your nose, and took a deep breath . . . yes, might want to head to the hospital! (See http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/Na2CO3.htm) I believe the same thing might happen if you substituted table salt and put it up your nose. But in lesser concentrations, it's around us everywhere in our everyday world. Oxyclean is primarily a sodium carbonate solution. Liquid Calgon Water Softener is a sodium carbonate solution - so you get to buy water with that chemical. :rolleyes:

But read the labels, and you will find sodium carbonate in a lot of our everyday items: coffee pot cleaner, Oxyclean, laundry detergent (including Cheer), toothpaste, cosmetics, the manufacture of glass and bricks, as a pH regulator in the campground pool and hot tub, in the lime sherbet you had for dessert last night . . . only to name a few. And, it does a fantastic job polishing the fancy silver dinnerware after a long day on the road! :D

Festus2 - your skin might actually come out a little softer and more cuddly if you used just a capful of the liquid in a tub full of water. But do be careful, the tub will be very slick when you get out! :D I don't think your DW would be very happy hauling you to the hospital after a fall in the tub! :eek:

But for those members who are located in areas of the country, such as north Texas, you may find Calgon Water Softener, Arm & Hammer Washing Soda, etc., fairly hard to find in either powder or liquid. In that case, you can find sodium carbonate at the pool supply as a pH booster. Or, you can order food-grade sodium carbonate from Amazon or Gulf Coast Chemicals. Buying it in bulk tends to encourage one to always dump a cup of it down the toilet after visiting the dump station. Using that cup every time keeps everything slick and moving down below in "that" tank!

Ron

[suza]

Calgon Water Softener, Arm & Hammer Washing Soda, etc., fairly hard to find in either powder or liquid. In that case, you can find sodium carbonate at the pool supply as a pH booster. Or, you can order food-grade sodium carbonate from Amazon or Gulf Coast Chemicals. Buying it in bulk tends to encourage one to always dump a cup of it down the toilet after visiting the dump station. Using that cup every time keeps everything slick and moving down below in "that" tank!

Ron

Does this mean Arm & Hammer Washing Soda or Oxyclean will do the same job as the Calgon Water Softener? Would the 2 cups/gal ratio be the same?

[geo]

Does this mean Arm & Hammer Washing Soda or Oxyclean will do the same job as the Calgon Water Softener? Would the 2 cups/gal ratio be the same?

Suza -

Yes, but washing soda, or straight sodium carbonate will usually be cheaper than Calgon (though without fragrance) and certainly cheaper than OxyClean. Look at the ingredients listed on the package. :D.

I usually add a cup or two after I flush the black tank. Usually a cup, but once a month I put in a little extra.
Ron

[suza]

Suza -

Yes, but washing soda, or straight sodium carbonate will usually be cheaper than Calgon (though without fragrance) and certainly cheaper than OxyClean. Look at the ingredients listed on the package. :D.

I usually add a cup or two after I flush the black tank. Usually a cup, but once a month I put in a little extra.
Ron

When you say "a cup" do you mean a cup of washing soda, diluted with water, at the suggested ratio of 2 cups of soda per gallon of water (which would be 1/2 gal of solution)?

[geo]

When you say "a cup" do you mean a cup of washing soda, diluted with water, at the suggested ratio of 2 cups of soda per gallon of water (which would be 1/2 gal of solution)?

Suza -

Good question. By "a cup", I literally mean a standard US (Imperial system) measuring cup. Since the sodium carbonate "is" the active ingredient desired in this process, in its "pure" form, a cup will do for a 40 to 65 gallon black tank. Calgon water softener is mostly sodium carbonate, and Dawn / OxyClean have a high percentage of sodium carbonate. (The difference between "soap" and "detergent" is the addition of sodium carbonate.). You can get the blue box of Arm and Hammer Washing Soda at a relatively low price. (Note: The orange box is Baking Soda - sodium bicarbonate. This may "freshen" the tank, but it doesn't "soften" the water.).

Try this - Get a box of Washing Soda. Now, go take a bath, but add a rounded tablespoon of Washing Soda to the bath water. If you are in western Oklahoma or west Texas, add three rounded tablespoons! Now carefully climb in the bath, because the water will be slick! Notice that the bath soap suds up easily, and the soap residue seems to never wash off. "Soft water"! Follow the directions, add some washing soda to the laundry, and your clothes will be cleaner. (Add some Mrs. Wrights Bluing to the load of whites, and the whites will be whiter! But I'm showing my age! ).

This same slickness is what one is trying to accomplish inside the black tank!

Let me bring up this old post : http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1611&highlight=sodium+carbonate. You will be surprised about all the camping things you can do with sodium carbonate. You can get food grade sodium carbonate off Amazon, or locally if you live in Lake Charles!
Ron

[mikell]

Dollar store fabric softener or dish soap but make sure there's water in the unit first so it doesn't just go right to the drain. I usually add at about the 1/2 way point

[gjsindbq]

Great tips and observations. Thanks for sharing!