All around best Tow truck option is? [Archive]

Jim W

07-30-2012, 01:23 PM

I would decide on what size 5th wheel you want to buy than size the TV for it. Any of the big three pick-up trucks with a diesel engine will pull most large 5er's. At a minimum I would look for a 1 ton dually with 4:10 gears for pulling a large 5th wheel trailer. Test drive them all to see which one you would like to buy.
I am partial to the Dodge Ram diesel pick-up truck because of the Cummins engine in it. I like the ease of service on the Cummins engine and the fact that the turbo is not buried in the valley of the engine as other makes have it. I also do not have to remove the cab to work on the engine for any reason, like some do.
Jim W.

Nomad2009

07-30-2012, 01:29 PM

I want TV to tow my cougar now, I have been using Yukon and pushing it but long trips I need improved TV. I will look at what you recommended I do want it to be something that will cover me now and future 5thw options and a good truck for all around use.

TX for advice Jim!

Nomad2009

07-30-2012, 01:43 PM

Jim do you know if any of these can seat 6 ?

Jim W

07-30-2012, 01:55 PM

Jim do you know if any of these can seat 6 ?

Yes; the Dodge Ram Mega Cab and the new MY2012 Crew cab from Dodge can both seat 6 passangers. I am not sure about the Chevys and Fords.

The Mega Cab was introduced in 2006 with the 5.9L Cummins engine.
Jim W.

Festus2

07-30-2012, 01:57 PM

Lee -
I am quite sure you will hear from members who will suggest one of these three trucks for towing an RV of that size --- Ford, GMC/Chev, and Dodge. If you have any plans of getting a bit larger RV, then I would certainly look at a 1T and a 1T for your Cougar would be a great TV.
You really can't go wrong with any one of these trucks and it really comes down to personal preference and brand loyalty. Why not take each out for a test drive? Get the one that YOU like the best.
If you are looking to seat 6, an extended cab isn't for you. Nowadays, I think most trucks seat two (comfortably) in the front. You'll need to find something with 6 sets of seatbelts in them!

Nomad2009

07-30-2012, 02:29 PM

SAD

07-30-2012, 02:37 PM

If you plan on going with a 5er in the future, I would recommend a 350/3500 series truck from any of the big-3 in dually flavor with a turbo-diesel engine (they each only have 1 available, F-6.7, C/GMC-Duramax, D-CTD 6.7).

Drive them all, and buy the one you like. They all will do the job fine. Forget what I think, because my butt is shaped differently than yours, so what you find comfortable will differ from me.

Long-bed or short bed.... Either will do the job. Long bed will obviously have more room. Short bed will do the job, but may require a slider hitch for the 5er - which adds additional expense.

Festus2

07-30-2012, 02:38 PM

Lee -
I have a 2500 GMC shortbox and tow a Cougar 5th. While my hitch is adjustable - it is not a true "slider" in that I have to stop, park, manually move the level to "maneuver" and then complete the rest of the process.
I've never crunched any truck windows or the front edge cap of the Cougar yet and I've made some pretty tight turns. If I am in situation where it is tight or could be a potential problem, my wife gets out of the TV and watches. As a matter of fact, I've never had to slide the hitch back yet.

rhagfo

07-30-2012, 05:51 PM

Hey Festus! Hope all is well!

I am looking through the Dodge. Trying to go through the specs they have on the site (www.ramtrucks.com) Is it the 2500 or 3500 you recommend? and the 5.9 or 6.7? Does the box have to be 8' for a 5th wheel hitch? It seems the passengers changes specs and limits box size. Can you see the spec you recommend, it seems to change the towing lbs when you add passengers and I cant find the "MY2012 Crew cab"

TX

You really want a 3500 DRW, if you are looking larger. I would look between 98.5 to 2007.5 Dodge Cummins 5.9 no emissions.

The newer the better as the GVWR will be higher.

I pull a Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, at 11.5K and about 2.2K Pin I am almost a 1,000# over GVWR, but also a 1,000# UNDER my rear axle GAWR. This is a 01 2500 Camper Special with tow package (no increase in the GVWR). This truck sits level with stock suspension, and tows great.

Big Boy w/ Big Toys

07-30-2012, 11:20 PM

Ok some advice from someone who just got done shopping for a new TV....

The Chevy is nice if looking for a plush ride. Interior is dated and has not changed much over the last 5 years. The rear seat area is good for those of short stature.

The Dodge, great engine, rear seat area I will call tight. IMO interior is cheap.

The Ford, which is what I wound up getting. Very comfortable rear seat area. Enough leg room for those a little north of 6 feet or enough room to move the front seat way back. Front seat can be had in two different configurations and one will allow six passengers.

Engine/transmission packages are all about the same. All 3 are basically all new technology since 2010, Ford being the newest of the bunch. It is an engine developed in house by Ford. No more International help after the 6.0 and 6.4 problems. All are now using DEF and each has it's advantages and each has had it's problems.

As far as gear ratios go not sure on the chevys or the dodge but Ford at the F350 level can only be a 3.73 in the DRW. Single wheel gives you a choice of 3.31, 3.55, 3.73 and 4.10 gear sets. The 6 speed tranny would be happy with the 3.73 or the 3.55 with a large trailer in tow. I wish I had 3.55's but still very happy with the 3.73. Also of note about going with a DRW no short bed and you get the larger fuel tank. Short beds equal small fuel tanks.

You have any questions on the Ford PM me. I will be more then happy to let you know about my recent 8700 mile round trip from Anchorage, Ak to Phoenix, Az back to Anchorage.

mikell

07-31-2012, 04:23 AM

Jim W

07-31-2012, 06:22 AM

I have attached the Ram (Dodge) Body Builders guide. This list all of the dimensions for the Ram pick-up trucks bed sizes, pulling mass (weight) per axle differential gear set and transmission type. The Mega Cab and the 2012 Crew cab have seating for 6 passengers.
The 4th generation models of the Ram pick-up trucks have been will received and are about 10K less than a furd. Remember this model has the turbo buried in the valley of the engine between the heads and the cab needs to be removed to service most components on this engine.
http://www.rambodybuilder.com/year.pdf
Jim W.

Big Boy w/ Big Toys

07-31-2012, 11:52 AM

Remember this model has the turbo buried in the valley of the engine between the heads and the cab needs to be removed to service most components on this engine.

Jim W.

Just so it's clear about cab removal...it is only required for any work below the heads. The turbo, injectors and glow plugs which are normal service items are all accessable without removing the cab. Turbo is even easier on the 6.7l. The same was true for the other International engines. Never needed to remove the cab unless you required head removal after installing head studs. The cab removal has been a cash cow for dealers and it still is. They still charge for 6 hours on/off and they can do it in less then 3.....

Just like the 12+ hours to replace Durmax injectors charged by Chevy dealers and can only be done at the dealers. I have done 5 of them and I can tear it down and back on the road in less then 10 if I have good help. All with basic hand tools. How about the $30 a pint special Dodge only fluid for the transmission. I have more but I will leave it at that.

Sorry about the rant but each of the big 3 has their cash cow. It just takes someone with good common sense to throw the BS flag and not willing to pay. We have gotten lazy here in the US and we now pay thru the nose for it. The days of fixing our own equipemnt has gone to the wayside becuase it's to complicated. No we are to lazy to buy the books to learn and purchase the right tools to do it ourselves.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

I am 50 years old and I am not afraid to go toe to toe with any computer geek, engineer, or gamer out there. Where did I get my knowledge....it was not from letting someone else work on my $h!T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I find it so funny reading forums and watching people run to web to get answers when they had it front of them the whole time right in their owners manual.

MikeII there is no way a gas engine will ever pull 15000 like a dream. I use to do it...always was under the impression of bigger the better, 454 and 502 were the norm in all my trucks, even had a "special" motor built but once I pulled with a diesel there is no going back to gas for hauling a load. I now see alot of folks buying the "ECO Boost"...ha ha ha. If you are a flatlander good, throw a couple of long or steep grades in there and your gas engine will be short lived.

I am not sure why diesel prices are so much more then gas prices. So everyone is clear that difference is almost ONLY in the US. Canada and Mexico diesel generally was equal to or cheaper then regular gas and alot of places along the western states it was many times less then a dime difference as we found during our trip.

SAD

07-31-2012, 11:58 AM

I knew this would end up a truck pissing contest.

Festus2

07-31-2012, 12:09 PM

Guys, need advice on purchasing a good truck for towing now and something that can tow large 5th wheel in future and good truck all around, if I upgrade to larger unit which I am considering so want to shop something you can recommend to cover all bases I respect your advice.

TX

Guys ---- Please take a look at Nomad2009's post. Seems to me that all he's looking for is some advice on "purchasing a good truck for towing now and in the future". Let's try to keep our comments focused on that and try to help the guy out. (ty)

Nomad2009

07-31-2012, 01:36 PM

Guys just looked at a 2004 Ford f250 Lariat turbo diesel 6.0 think the ratio was 3.73 3/4 ton says about 12k tow one owner really well maintained asking 21k
Any ine have comment on this one? May be under some suggestion but i see alot of these towin big stuff 5th and backhoes boats.

Tx

f6bits

07-31-2012, 02:03 PM

When it comes to towing, there are a few numbers you need to find out:
Front and Rear GAWR
Total GVWR
Payload Capacity
Towing Capacity

Without those last two numbers (the first ones are nice to know), you’re not going to get strong recommendations here.

However, if you find something with a cargo (payload) capacity of at least 2500 lbs and towing capacity of at least 12k, you’re in the right ballpark.

As I look at fivers, their gross weight is often around 12k. Super top of the fivers and big toy haulers hit 14 to 16 thousand pounds with 3k or more on the hitch.

rhagfo

07-31-2012, 03:41 PM

Just finalizing an offer on a 4500 crew cab gas hauler. Should pull the 15000 Alpine like a dream. Diesel prices and the mileage difference didn't make any sense so I went with the gas and it was about 10k$ less than the diesel.

$10k lower
Diesel $1 higher
3 mpg difference
Diesel oil change 65$ gas 40$

You only need to change diesel motor oil half as often as gas!
Don't know here you live, but diesel is only about $.30 more around my parts.
20 mpg highway at 65.
14 mpg around town.
12 pulling 12K 5er at 60, up and down hills.
Not trying to change you just some facts.

Edit, you get a lot of the 10K price difference back at trade in or resale.
The reason I will not try to change you, is if you love a gasser, you will never understand a diesel, they are different and need understanding and are driven differently.

Nomad2009

08-01-2012, 08:50 AM

rhagfo

08-01-2012, 11:56 AM

OK just FYI I got the specs on this:

Ford F250 Crew Cab 4x4 Turbo diesel 6 1/2 Bed

Front Gawr 5,200
Rear Gawr 6, 084
Total GV 8,800
Towing Capacity 10,600
Payload 1500

I was looking to around this size 5ver so I guess this TV needs to be stepped up:

Length 35'0"
Width 8'4"
Height 12'9"
Hitch Weight 2,160 lbs
Dry Weight 8,960 lbs
Gross Weight 12,560 lbs
Cargo Weight 3,600 lbs

Your desired rig is 1' -6" longer than my Copper Canyon.
Dry weight and pin weight are about the same.
I pull it at between 11.5 and 12K gross, and am at 9,700# GVW with the same specs on my 01 Dodge 2500. I am running right at 1,000# over my GVWR, but run at 89 percent of front GAWR, and only 83 percent of rear GAWR loaded!

If I was replacing the truck I would be looking at a 3500 DRW, but this works fine lots of spring still left in the rear.
Not recommending for you just giving you some information to go on.

PS: F150 HD Max Tow to get their GVWR are at 95 percent of GAWR!

Nomad2009

08-01-2012, 12:22 PM

Tx Russ:

I am looking up to the Ford F-350 is the DRW a must do you think?

Looking at the single now.

Turbocharged Diesel V8 6.7L/406 this is only 3.55 I know the DRW has the 4. you guys are recommending but my small concern on DRW is the parking and won't this decrease my mileage considerably or is that a rumor?

Or am I an idiot if I invest and don't do the DRW?

TX so much on assist...

mhs4771

08-07-2012, 06:26 AM

One thing to think about, with a Dually if you blow a rear tire you still have three left to help stop that 15K rig behind you. Wally World parking lots can be a pain, so just park a little farther our and always pull through or back into a spot, so you can pull out without having to back up. We sort of did what you're doing, had a 1500 TV & 24' TT and thought about moving up, so went looking for a 3/4 TV, but couldn't find what we wanted, local dealer had a new (2005) Dually on the lot and made us a better deal on it than ordering a 3/4, so a 1 ton Dually is was. Pulled the 24' TT another year using the Dually, what a joy to travel. Then moved up to a 30' TT (piece of junk, but that's another story). Then went to a 34' 13.5K gross 5er. Still a dream towing. Upgraded to a new 2011 3500HD 1 Ton Dually and now have a 40' 16.5K gross 5er and still a dream to travel. Moral of the story, go BIG now and you won't have to worry about the future.

msp2jxr

08-07-2012, 05:16 PM

One of the best features of my Ford truck is the (as my wife calls it) the old man step that pops out of the tailgate. I would not have ordered it but this truck was the color and everything else I wanted. Now I can't imagine myself living without it It is really handy. You will also want the electric fold out mirrors. It is so nice to hit a button and drive right into the garage or fold them in at a parking lot. Two very good features for a truck pulling trailers.

Philip Saran

08-09-2012, 05:28 PM

Ok, I'll add my 0.02 cents to this.

I own and tow with a 2004 Ford F350 4 dr, 4X4, long bed diesel.
yes it has the 6.0 motor and yes it has been replaced under
warranty. I also purchased another extended warranty when
the factory warranty was about up. Motor was replaced at
81K, I now have 133K on the truck.

My gross tow rate is 20,000 lbs, the truck with full tank of
diesel and 2 people and one 80 lb dog weights in at 8,000 lbs
leaving me 12,000 lbs tow rate. My TT is 29 ft tip to tip and
loaded weights in at 7700 lbs so I have a very good margin of
safety, if you will.

Oh, milage, 17/18 on the road empty and 10-13 with TT depends
on how many hills I have to climb.

My truck has a fold down arm rest so when in the up position
it will seat 6 people.

Back seat is very comfortable, I am 6 ft tall and can and have
slept back there while on the road.

IF you are going to purchase a 5th wheel trailer, buy enough
truck to haul and STOP it safely.

Buy at least a one ton dually truck, if not even a 4500 truck
as for brand pick the one you like and that fits your needs.

For the gentleman who went with the gas motor, that is your
choice. I like the built in "jake brake" effect my diesel provides
on down hills. No gas motor truck can provide that ability.

Nomad2009

08-14-2012, 05:19 PM

Sounds about right, thanks for all the replys:

Ford F-450 DRW

rhagfo

08-14-2012, 08:53 PM

Sounds about right, thanks for all the replys:

Ford F-450 DRW

So is the F450 new or used?

I was a Ford guy, until my neighbor who was a gypo logger, bought a 96 Dodge Cummins 2500 new, sweet truck. I had just bought a 88 F250 used 460 EFI, 4X4, thought it was great. Well long story short, traded the F250 460, on the current Cummins going from a gas 7.5 liter down to a 5.9 liter Diesel was an eye opener, WAY more POWER!!

You should love the F450, and good choice as it will take a good size 5er to out grow it!!

lightning79

08-16-2012, 08:56 PM

I'd also go with a Dodge with a Cummins, for the ease of service, reputation and reliability of the best diesel engine out there, and the ease of service as compared to the other two.

lightning79

08-16-2012, 08:57 PM

But the F450 is awesome too!

Big Boy w/ Big Toys

08-17-2012, 07:36 AM

I'd also go with a Dodge with a Cummins, for the ease of service, reputation and reliability of the best diesel engine out there, and the ease of service as compared to the other two.

What service on a diesel...change the oil???? There is very little service work that is required for a diesel engine. I have a 7.3 that is 13 years old with just over 200k that just had new glow plugs installed this last winter. My wife and I did those in under 3 hours. The only other thing was a turbo pedstal oil leak also accomplished in under a couple of hours. But those are all repairs not service work and I did not have to ake the cab off either. Also have alot of experience with the Ford 6.0. Now that there is a "Piece of Junk"

You are almost correct about the in line 6 as far as doing REPAIR work that it is easier but as far as day to day service there is not much difference between them.

Run from the Ford 6.0. They are pratically worthless because of all the issues with head gaskets.There is even a head gasket with a lifetime warrenty against leaking for the 6.0, They still leak. If you are going to push the motor hard then stay away from the 6.0, if it is an around town truck and you need something to bring the groceries home then that would be ok. 6.0 junk...had one buyback and the other one I had has been sitting on the dealers lot since March after trade in. He cannot even get a wholesaler to take it, as he cannot get anyone to buy them. So if anyone is looking for 6.0's come to Alaska You can find many for well under 10 g's. I watch many of them loaded on trucks for transport south.

If you think that the Cummins is without issues you need to get out a little more. Now if you are looking at building an engine for lots of power and torque absolutely go with the Cummins, then put the engine in something else...........

SAABDOCTOR

08-17-2012, 08:24 AM

The perfect tow truck.:surprise:has not been built yet!great engine lousey transmission. nice body bad engine good engine pain to work on. so now what? Mybe we should all get together and make our own!!:banghead:

JRTJH

08-17-2012, 09:09 AM

My vote would be for an F350 with a cummins engine, allison transmission, michelin tires and a "PAID IN FULL" title <G> :D

Big Boy w/ Big Toys

08-17-2012, 10:51 AM

My vote would be for an F350 with a cummins engine, allison transmission, michelin tires and a "PAID IN FULL" title <G> :D

You don't how how close to the truth you are...Many of those who love their Fords but have issues with the 6.0 are converting to the Cummins engine. About a 10 to 12 g conversion.

SAABDOCTOR

08-17-2012, 11:20 AM

I have one guy that comes buy my shop says he has never had a problem with his 6.0. if he is tell ing the truth Ford should buy it back to see what went right with it. i might bump the f350 to a 450 just incase my dw gets any idea's. looks like we may have the truck issue fixed now on to the campers!!!!:rofl:

Jimbeau

08-25-2012, 11:45 PM

If it's not too late, I got the ford f-350 short bed (with the SMALL extra cab) just because it fits in my garage (haha, even if it's by 2" in front and back!!). I put Pullrite 16k sliding hitch. Just be prepared though for the sticker shock of not only the Truck, but the Maintenence will Kill you. A do it yourslf oill change runs about $80. I just paid 113 out the door to have it done. (15 quarts of oil!!). Air filter from $60-80. Uses 2 fuel filters $45.....and on and on and on. Just paid to have replaced a bad injector (did all 4 on that side as a Preventative) $1800. Just be prepared....I wasnt!! haha

wincrasher

08-26-2012, 05:55 AM

Sounds like what you need for your current needs would be a Suburban/Yukon with a diesel drivetrain. I wish such a beast existed, because I'd buy it today.

Unfortunately, the "perfect" tow vehicle is going to be a gigantic, dually, long bed crew cab truck. The huge wheel base and payload will let you pull monstrous 5vers up to 45'. I'm sure even some trailers can max out this kind of truck.

The problem with these trucks, in my view, is that they may tow a trailer with confidence, but they are a bear to drive around town, shopping centers, etc, when you are not towing.

I love my 3/4 ton chevy duramax. It's a great size for even a 36' travel trailer. The problem is that if you want to pull a 5ver, you are pretty limited in what you could buy. It just seems that most of them require a 1 ton.

I'd suggest that you have to buy all your equipment fairly closely matched. Don't buy a truck now so that you can buy a bigger trailer 5-6 years from now. in that time, you'd have a nice new trailer and an old truck. If you need a better truck to tow the trailer you have now, just go get one matched for that trailer and maybe a bit more. If in a few years you want the big big trailer, then just get that truck at that time.

Good luck in what you decide.

datedd

08-26-2012, 07:34 PM

Jim W

08-27-2012, 04:51 AM

I would like to know what the 5th wheel Trailering capacity for the Ram 3500 short bed DRW is. There does not seem to be a distinction on the specs sheet from the site. GM for example shows a distinctive capacity for TT and gooseneck / 5th wheel.

Is there any where else where these distinctive numbers are?

Ram does not specify this information, since the effects on the truck between a TT or 5er should be the same. My reasoning is a properly set-up weight distribution hitch with sway control for a TT will have the same effect as a 5er hitch on the truck. The load will be applied evenly to the front and rear axles and the frame. As long as you do not exceed the GCVW of 26,000 LBS and max trailer weight of 18,350 lbs for the 4:10 differential and Max tow package. Other max trailer weights could apply to your choice of vehicle and trim level. I have chosen just one of many that are listed for an example.

You might be able to do more research on this subject on Pick-ups Trucks.Com see link attached.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/06/sae-intros-final-test-procedures-for-j2807.html

Jim W.

Bushman512000

08-27-2012, 11:28 AM

I had them all but the GM line .went away from the goat line now back had 2005 power joker,never left Me but! came real close,back to the goat line oil burner had 3 before this one My Son has My last new 5.9 2003 I now have a 6.7 Power Wagon 4X4 4 door My toy I am sure I will not get a Ford again reason The Ford people do not stand behind the products they sell after the sale ...Bushman"bouncey:

Hansel

08-28-2012, 04:20 AM

My 2 cents worth is, if you buying new then I guess you can afford a loan the size of a house ($65,000) IMHO you need to go out and drive and look at each of the 3 big truck companies. I own a 2000 F-250 CC SRW with a 7.3L Powerstroke that has been a treat to own, has towed and hauled everything I've thrown at it, I have a Laredo TT that it pulls without much trouble unless I get into the Georgia mountians, my brother has a GMC Duramax which is a nice truck not sure about the towing, I've never seen him tow with it and I;ve driven it 1 time. The Dodge cummins is a great powerplant but Dodge do not hld the value if try to sell in the future, plus thier drivetrain is not the best. The Ford's STAY AWAY from a 6.0L they have head gasket and EGR cooler problems, the 6.4L isn't the best in fuel mileage. The 6.7L is a Ford design and that's because Ford and International had a falling out when Ford rushed International too push out the 6.0L before it was ready, and basically ruined it's Fords reputation when it came to the dieseal trucks, I will agrue with people that if they think International can't biuld a engine they are wrong.

The ultimate TV isn't made IMHO,

TV= Ford body,Cummins engine, Allison Tranny, so that would be all the big 3 truck's together into 1.

mhs4771

08-28-2012, 06:07 AM

Javi

08-28-2012, 06:14 AM

Well we don't have the Crew Cab, but we do have the Extended Cab, Long (8') Box Diesel Dually (only a few inches (9") shorter than the CC) and haven't had a problem driving around town. Yes you might have to park out a little farther in the Wally World lot, but we need the exersise anyway. To each their own. We love ours and it fits the bill to haul our rig and buy the groceries.

Kind of how I feel about my crew cab, 8' bed F-250... it is not a problem around town unless I'm concerned about parking up front at Wally World...

but have you noticed that no matter how far out in the boonies you park someone is always gonna hem you in.... :D

hankaye

08-28-2012, 07:08 AM

Javi, Howdy;

but have you noticed that no matter how far out in the boonies you park someone is always gonna hem you in.... :D

I chalk it up to them being envious of us.....:rolleyes:

hankaye

GMcKenzie

08-28-2012, 12:28 PM

TV= Ford body,Cummins engine, Allison Tranny, so that would be all the big 3 truck's together into 1.

Someone could make a mint building these, and I'd be one of the buyers.

Graham

08-28-2012, 01:51 PM

Lee, I bought an 2010 MP300 Raptor, at the time I had a 3/4 ton 2006 dodge ram diesel, I had a chip installed so the power was great but the breaking was on the weak side especially in the mountains, last year I bought a 2012 GMC Seirra 3500 SLT Dually with the duramax and allison transmission, What a difference!!!! tons of power and with the allison transmisson and engine breaking it keeps me at a constant speed going down steep hills and on a hill with less grade will slow me down. I would say I'm around 15,000lbs when I'm loaded. The duals really stop the side to side swaying in the wind as well. couldn't be happier:)