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View Full Version : Raptor issues ( buyer beware)


max08
07-19-2012, 06:54 AM
I just purchased a 2011 Raptor 400 RGB and I believe it's a lemon. It has had nothing but electrical problems since it was purchased and now customer service is telling me there is nothing wrong with the unit so they will not warranty the converter or the microwave. The converter has been replaced once because of recall issues and even the dealer doing the work says there is a problem with the converter............ But I guess Keystone knows better and thus if they do warranty it again it'll be considered a lemon if it happens again so they have to find reasons to get out of the warranty. So I will be picking my unit up today and looking to trade it in on anything but a keystone manufactured unit. Next step I guess is the lawyer...............

Festus2
07-19-2012, 07:08 AM
If you have a WFCO converter, it has a 2 year limited warranty - the same length as your micowave probably has. Both warranties, like all, have limitations and exclusions so you might want to have a close look at what each warranty says.
If you are not making any progress with Keystone, try filing a claim with the manufacturers of your converter and microwave.
Let us know how you make out with this approach.

SAABDOCTOR
07-19-2012, 07:32 AM
I would agree with Festus and contact the manufacturer of the converter and micro. but what happened to the units. did they burn out is there a power issue at the cg with surges? i understand your fustration. but give us some details please maybe some one can offer some sugestions so it will not happen again.

max08
07-19-2012, 07:39 AM
Not sure of the cause, but the converter has been replaced once as have both TV's due to explosions while we were watching them, the heating elements on the refrigerator, and some other electrical pieces and parts the went out. But Keystone says there is no electrical issues with the trailer and the dealer that is doing the repairs says he feels there is.

randy69
07-19-2012, 11:36 AM
What I understand the converter is a ac to dc for your trailer,battery charger and anything that is dc. And the transferswitch is for shore hookup or generator. It switches from one or the other. my recall letter was on a Iota its-50 transfer switch and keystone replaced it with a WFCO T-57 ???? Is that one no good tOO

Big Boy w/ Big Toys
07-19-2012, 05:03 PM
Not sure of the cause, but the converter has been replaced once as have both TV's due to explosions while we were watching them, the heating elements on the refrigerator, and some other electrical pieces and parts the went out. But Keystone says there is no electrical issues with the trailer and the dealer that is doing the repairs says he feels there is.

:eek:

The convertor is an AC to DC deal for your batteries and lights.

If you have a 50 Amp cable on your RV, you should be checking the receptacle before you plug in with a circuit tester or voltmeter. (Or install a power monitor system in your RV that will do it for you.) If the neutral wire is not connected to the receptacle and you plug in, something in your RV will probably "smoke" as, without going into the electrical details, it'll have about 240 Volts applied. I've seen 3 or 4 50 Amp outlets where the neutral wire had come loose and was not making contact and I am sure that a previous RV'er left with a problem. It could also be from corrision or a bad receptacle. It is also wise to throw the breaker in the campground panel before you plug in. That way you can't get the hot pins connected before the neutral is connected, and it don't take long for electricity to do it's damage.

Outlet testing. You can buy an outlet tester that has lights to indicate that the outlet wiring is normal or has problems for less that $5 at a hardware or building supply store. (Or you can buy a voltmeter and learn use it if you don't already know.) You can also buy much more expensive circuit testing devices that do the testing and measure the voltage and/or frequency. But all of them I've seen plug into the standard 15 Amp receptacle. So add a 30 Amp male to 15 Amp female adapter available at RV stores for less than $5 and you can plug the circuit tester into the adapter, and the adapter into the 30 Amp receptacle and check the 30 Amp receptacle. Add the 50 Amp male to 30 Amp female adapter, available at RV stores for $15 to $20, plug the 30 Amp adapter into it, the tester into the 30 Amp adapter and you can test 3 of the 4 wires in the 50 Amp receptacle - ground, neutral and one of the two power leads. Neutral is the critical one for an RV connecting to a 50 Amp receptacle. If the second power lead has no power, some thing(s) in the RV - like one air conditioner - won't work; but if neutral is missing, some thing(s) in the RV will probably need to be repaired or replaced.

randy69
07-19-2012, 07:22 PM
If were feeding 50 amp 240 volts to the trailer. Eventhough Trailer is 50 amp 110 volt. How is it wired. Breaker box has two buss bars, So different breakers for each buss? Or is it 1 leg supplying the air and the other one the breaker pannel?? I really would like to know.

Big Boy w/ Big Toys
07-19-2012, 11:40 PM
Without looking at it direct I am going to say maybe. Your A/C only have a single pole breaker or is it a double? Remember every other breaker position feeds from the second leg. Now unless something is odd your A/C unit is a 120 volt unit, as are most RV units, so should be single breaker. So it should only feed from one line and depending on your unit it could be fed alone or thru the same bus as the other circuits. Just depends on bus/breaker position. A 13.5K unit pulls less then 15 amps when running. I know as I run my whole camper unit on a standard 120 volt 15 amp circuit on a 50 foot extension cord at times at home.

Ok the two bus bars are 120 volts each. If you check between them then you have 240 volts. Check each bus bar to the ground or neutral you should have a reading of 120 volts.

Now if you have the positives connecting 1st before the neutral you could be unknowingly be pushing 240 thru your 120 circuits when powering things up as the neutral completes both legs. This is why you kill the campground breaker at the post before plugging and unplugging. The other thing is how many times have you seen a Richard Cranium just yank his plug out from 10 feet away. So chances of finding a bad recep with a bad connection are high and it ruining your unit are good.

Here is a PDF on wiring a 50 amp recep....http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/50-amp%20Service.pdf

max08
07-20-2012, 02:37 AM
Without looking at it direct I am going to say maybe. Your A/C only have a single pole breaker or is it a double? Remember every other breaker position feeds from the second leg. Now unless something is odd your A/C unit is a 120 volt unit, as are most RV units, so should be single breaker. So it should only feed from one line and depending on your unit it could be fed alone or thru the same bus as the other circuits. Just depends on bus/breaker position. A 13.5K unit pulls less then 15 amps when running. I know as I run my whole camper unit on a standard 120 volt 15 amp circuit on a 50 foot extension cord at times at home.

Ok the two bus bars are 120 volts each. If you check between them then you have 240 volts. Check each bus bar to the ground or neutral you should have a reading of 120 volts.

Now if you have the positives connecting 1st before the neutral you could be unknowingly be pushing 240 thru your 120 circuits when powering things up as the neutral completes both legs. This is why you kill the campground breaker at the post before plugging and unplugging. The other thing is how many times have you seen a Richard Cranium just yank his plug out from 10 feet away. So chances of finding a bad recep with a bad connection are high and it ruining your unit are good.

Here is a PDF on wiring a 50 amp recep....http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/50-amp%20Service.pdf

All of this testing was done by the RV tech staying in the park where we are set up. All the wiring at the box is good and I always throw the breaker before I plug the cable in. It is a 2 pole 50 amp breaker.

randy69
07-20-2012, 07:32 AM
Thanks for the info. I was going to run some conduit from the garage 50 amp sub pannel to the rv location. I have split 240 volts from my 4500 watt generator before. to back feed from sub pannel to the main when power goes out. Yes I know open main breaker, Open breakers on house air condition and pool pump. Then I can feed both 100 amp busses with 110 volts.

Big Boy w/ Big Toys
07-20-2012, 11:31 AM
All of this testing was done by the RV tech staying in the park where we are set up. All the wiring at the box is good and I always throw the breaker before I plug the cable in. It is a 2 pole 50 amp breaker.

Ok that is the good news if all your feeds test well. So now you need to locate where you are getting your cross over at the trailer. Need to check power at the breaker box 1st. Then test each recep and appliance (and invertor) that is connected to the breaker box. To ensure all are recieving 120 volts. Also need to check your genset switch legs, neutral and grounds. Somewhere a loose wire, a miss connected wire or connector is making crossing over to complete a 240 circuit.

Also if this has been an intermittent problem, like only happens when you move the trailer, then again, a circuit by circuit search will need to be done.

Not to side with Keystone on the warrenty issue but didn't they pay the dealer the 1st time to fix this issue. If the dealer had failed to repair it the 1st time, charged Keystone for the repair and closed the work order, then it now falls to the dealer responsibility and proving that a new problem has developed. It also matters how/if a warrenty has been submitted by your dealer. Get in touch with Keystone direct.

max08
07-22-2012, 09:26 AM
I have been in contact with Keystone and there the ones that have basically told me oh well we can't figure out what caused it so your on your own to fix it. The dealer that worked on it the first time had replaced transfer switch and lugs for the generator and the converter. The dealer that was working on it most recently says that there is a problem with the converter but Keystone said they arn't going to warranty it. My opinion is that they know if they fix it and it goes again they now have a lemon on there hands and they will be forced to give me my money back do to SC lemon laws. So I'm stuck with a Keystone Raptor lemon that is using a car battery charger to keep the battery charged. So hopefully the junk will burn to the ground then Keystone will have a lawsuit to go along with there loss of a customer.

Big Boy w/ Big Toys
07-22-2012, 10:26 AM
I have been in contact with Keystone and there the ones that have basically told me oh well we can't figure out what caused it so your on your own to fix it. The dealer that worked on it the first time had replaced transfer switch and lugs for the generator and the converter. The dealer that was working on it most recently says that there is a problem with the converter but Keystone said they arn't going to warranty it. My opinion is that they know if they fix it and it goes again they now have a lemon on there hands and they will be forced to give me my money back do to SC lemon laws. So I'm stuck with a Keystone Raptor lemon that is using a car battery charger to keep the battery charged. So hopefully the junk will burn to the ground then Keystone will have a lawsuit to go along with there loss of a customer.

Any luck with the converter manufacturer? Seems thay have a stake in this also. As for the burn down if proven that inverter is the problem, Keystone gets away scott free.

I would look at trying Keystone again and moving up the chain. I am aware of some that have gotten things done well after warrenty. Squeeky wheel>>>>>

Outbackmel
07-22-2012, 10:27 AM
You have every right to be UPSET, however, this is an open forum and your comments may come back to bite you. If you are not getting what you need from Keystone, go seek counsel. AND I would be VERY CAREFUL what you attach to the RV while intact.

Step back and think....it's only a possession and you will fix it or replace it or quit camping....

Please do not let emotions be the driver. A good lawyer and direct LEGAL contact with Keystone MAY bring you action or guidance for next steps.
Lemon laws are simply NOT that easy to return a defected product without a paper trail of attempted resolution.

I feel your disgust and would be stressed and PO'd as well. Many of us have owned "toys" with issues. (Not necessarily rv's). Sounds like it's time for a cool one....Last week I spent $280 because my slide bedroom would not come out and there was a"potential" electrical issue. I had it checked out at a reputable local RV dealer; 120 miles roundtrip, dragging that baby, to find nothing wrong. They tore that thing apart to ensure we had no possibility of a short that could cause a fire. Mine is a 2011 and out of warranty. Short: do what you gotta do....it will be better.

Best of luck in this time (or anytime).

Festus2
07-22-2012, 10:59 AM
maxo8 -
Have you tried or will someone else be attempting any of the possible fixes suggested by Big Boy w/Big Toys? Do you plan on contacting the manufacturer of your converter to discuss your problem with them to see if they have any solutions for you?

In the long run, it may be worthwhile looking into finding a reputable RV service place or RV electrical technician and pay for the costs of having this problem found and fixed if you don't feel comfortable or have the skills working with RV electrical components. By the time you go through the legal costs, the time and additional aggravation of "fighting" with Keystone, working with and around the Lemon Law, it might be to your advantage to just bite the bullet and get it done and paid for by yourself.

I realize that this isn't what you want and perhaps it may not be "fair" but you just could end up with an RV that you can actually enjoy!

Big Boy w/ Big Toys
07-22-2012, 06:46 PM
Before you can get any action under a Lemon law you have to show that at least 3 repair attempts have been made. Then it goes to an arbitration board and many times the folks are very familiar with the people you are working against. Then you need to prove the problem still exsists. So if intermittent issue, going make it real tough. DOn't expect much help from the dealer either, as they may have a stake in the outcome. Then they take all the time you had the trailer, minus the time at the dealer, do a market anaylsis and you basically pay a monthly rental fee. Leaving you basically no equity.

You could try making a case here....http://www.cpsc.gov/ They helped me a full refund on two dishwashers after an investigation. Just something to try and maybe someone else had done the same. Your tax dollars pay for it use it. If they will not accept the complaint ask them who will then and not jut the BBB.

There is no recalls or complaints on file. Could also look up the makers of the products in question.