leveling my truck for towing

[kiwi2000]

I am new to RV ing and tried to purchase truck and trailer so that I would have no issues. It turns out that due to the gear selection choice the truck actually has about 1000 lbs less towing capacity when compared to other choices of gear.

My issue is the truck squats when loaded with the 5th quite noticeably. I imagine that would impact on the steering as well. I have been offered 3 options,

1. a rubber block placed in between the axle and box.
2. air shocks with or w/o compressor
3. add a leaf spring

I had air shocks many moons ago in a vehicle and had nothing but issues with them. I do not know if this technology has improved since. The compressor option is nice but adds to the total. I cannot see getting it as an option and also cannot see constantly changing the pressure either.

I do not see how the block would fix my issue and don't think the box sitting on the axle is a good idea anyway.

The leaf seems to be the best idea but I am concerned that ride comfort would suffer when not pulling? How do I know if one leaf is sufficient?

Anyone else have a suggestion?

The tow vehicle is a 2010 f250 diesel supercab with 3 something gears.
The 5th is a 2010 Montana 285RLD.

[SteveC7010]

The specs on your trailer list a dry pin weight of 2,120#. Do you have any idea how much the pin actually weights? (General rule of thumb is to expect the actual loaded pin weight of a fiver to be around 110% to 125% of manufacturer's dry pin weight rating.)

Do you have the payload info for your particular truck and in particular, the max rating for the rear axle? (The rear axle rating should be on the door sticker.)

Also we need to know the GVWR of the truck and, if possible, the curb weight of the truck.

Finally, we need to know exactly what size and load range tires you have on the rear axle.

Your trailer is GVWR'd at 14,020#.

I'd like to see all of your numbers before I offer any thoughts.

[f6bits]

Option #4 is air bags, such as the Ride-Rites from Firestone.

However, none of these options will increase your payload capacity. If you’re overloaded, you’re screwed.

[kiwi2000]

he specs on your trailer list a dry pin weight of 2,120#. Do you have any idea how much the pin actually weights? (General rule of thumb is to expect the actual loaded pin weight of a fiver to be around 110% to 125% of manufacturer's dry pin weight rating.)

No Idea on the pin wieght

Do you have the payload info for your particular truck and in particular, the max rating for the rear axle? (The rear axle rating should be on the door sticker.)

rear gawr is 6100lbs, front is 5200 lbs

Also we need to know the GVWR of the truck and, if possible, the curb weight of the truck.

Curb weight is 9800 lbs

Finally, we need to know exactly what size and load range tires you have on the rear axle.

tires are 245 75R 17 max single 3495 lbs @ 650 KPa

Your trailer is GVWR'd at 14,020#.

I'd like to see all of your numbers before I offer any thoughts

2010 SD F250 4X4 SUPERCAB
XLT 142" WB STYLESIDE
6.4L V-8 DIESEL
5-SPEED DIESEL AUTOMATIC TR
EXTERIOR: ROYAL RED CLEARCOAT METALLI
INTERIOR: MEDIUM STONE CLOTH

FUNCTIONAL
• A/C, MANUAL
• ABS, POWER 4-WHEEL DISC
• POWER EQUIPMENT GROUP
• SHOCKS, HEAVY DUTY
• STABILIZER BAR, FRONT
• STEERING, PWR& TILT WHEEL
• TRAILER TOW PACKAGE
• 4X4 SYSTEM, ESOF
INTERIOR
• AUXILIARY AUDIO INPUT JACK
• COAT HOOKS, COLOUR KEYED
• FLOOR COVERING, C/K CARPET
• GRAB HANDLES, DRVR/PASS
• HEADLINER, CLOTH C/K
• POWER POINT, FRONT
• REARVIEW MIRROR, DAY-NIGHT
• TACHOMETER
• VISORS, C/K W/ STRP & MIR
EXTERIOR
• BUMPERS, CHROME FRONT/REAR
• GRILLE, CHROME
• HEADLAMPS, DUAL BEAM
• PICKUP BOX TIE DOWN HOOKS
• STOP LAMP, HIGH MOUNT CTR
• TAILGATE, REMOVABLE W/LOCK
• TOW HOOKS
• WIPERS, FIXED INTERVAL
SAFETY/SECURITY
• AIRBAGS, DRIVER & PASS
• AIRBAG, MAN DEACTIV PASS
• PASSIVE ANTI-THEFT SYSTEM
• SAFETY BELTS, ADJUSTABLE
• SOS POST CRASH ALERT SYST
INCLUDED ON THIS VEHICLE
TRAILER TOWING PACKAGE
AM/FM STEREO CD/CLK
OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT
2010 MODEL YEAR
PREFERRED EQUIPMENT PKG.903A
6.4L V-8 DIESEL
5-SPEED DIESEL AUTOMATIC TRANS
3.31 RATIO LIMITED SLIP AXLE
LEATHER STRG W/REDUNDANT CTRL
CHROME TUBULAR CAB STEP
9800# GVWR PACKAGE
PTC SUPPLEMENTAL HEATER
50 STATE EMISSIONS
SPARE TIRE AND WHEEL
TRAILER BRAKE CONTROLLER
JACK
UPFITTER SWITCHES
EXTRA HEAVY DUTY ALTERNATOR
WINTER FRONT GRILLE COVER
40/20/40 CLOTH BENCH SEAT
6-WAY POWER SEAT-DRIVER
6-WAY POWER SEAT-PASSENGER
SYNC VOICE ACTIVATED SYSTEMS
OTHER OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT


https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/default.asp

[f6bits]

I’m not sure on the 250, but there’s a door sticker on my 150 that shows me my max payload. Does your door sticker have this?

According to Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-250-super-duty/2010/features-specs.html?style=101215141), max payload is 3160 when properly equipped. Max trailer is 12500, also when properly equipped.

[SteveC7010]

OK, here's how I see the numbers....

First, the GVWR of your truck should be the sum of the GAWR's for front and rear axles: 6,100# + 5,200# = 11,300#.

Subtract the curb weight to arrive at max payload: 11,300# - 9,800# = 1,500#.

So, with a dry pin weight of 2,010# and a max payload of 1,500#, you are already 510# overloaded. And that is with nothing in the truck, not even yourself and passengers. Presuming that the actual pin is another 400# heavier, you are nearly 1,000# over your max payload. Add yourself, the wife, and something else in the truck, and you could easily reach 1,500# or higher of overload.

Per sdayman's info, your max trailer is 12,500#. The GVWR of your trailer is 14,020#. Even though the dry weight of your trailer is under the max trailer rating of the truck, IMHO you are at or over max trailer regardless presuming that you carry at least an average amount of gear and such in the trailer.

So, adding air bags or helper springs might level out the rig, but you still have the overload of both payload and max trailer weight to deal with.

[kiwi2000]

but you still have the overload of both payload and max trailer weight to deal with

From the ford towing specs I supplied in a link it seems as though I am far away form any sort of maximum of anything.
There it lists 16500#'s

I am unsure how a f250 diesel can be overloaded by the smallest Montana model.

the edmonds link supplied by the other poster is for Gassers.
Please refer to my link for diesel automatic superduty specs.


https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...ng/default.asp

[f6bits]

Where did you see 16,500? For a 3.31 SuperCab Diesel 4x4, I see 15,500. Not a big difference. But the big question is how much free load do you have?

The curb weight of 9800 lbs doesn’t make sense if your GVWR is 9800 lbs. Best thing to do is to get on a scale one axle at a time and find out what the truck really weighs. A longbed 2011 is about 8000 lbs, so you may have about 1800 lbs to play with. And that’s not enough.

p.s. It seems the Edmunds link I found earlier was for gassers and not diesels.

[SteveC7010]

From the ford towing specs I supplied in a link it seems as though I am far away form any sort of maximum of anything.
There it lists 16500#'s

OK, first, I used sdayman's max trailer number. I am not going to go chasing links to find answers. It's up to you to place the numbers here.

That said, OK, if 16.5 is the correct max trailer, then you're in good shape on that part of things.

I am unsure how a f250 diesel can be overloaded by the smallest Montana model.

Well, you need to look at the payload numbers again. We have repeatedly proved here in this forum that there are a lot of trucks that can pull a lot of weight, but fall way short on the payload. Yours appears to be one of them. There is only so much weight you can put on the rear axle of an F250 and your rig is well over based on the numbers you provided.

Your truck is overloaded by at least a half ton of weight on the rear axle and probably more. That is why it sags enough that you came here to ask opinions on remedies. Even if you add air bags or helper springs and level things out, you are still overloaded by exactly the same amount of weight. None of those things will increase your payload capacity.

[kiwi2000]

Thank you for bringing this issue to my attention.

Boo to ford for not having this important information readily available online. It should be in the towing guide and not just as a sticker on the door.

That said it appears that I am overloaded, but not by much.
2261 is the max load rating on the door of the truck and 2100 the rating of the trailer, so a few hundred lbs at most.

Next on my list is to weigh the truck with full load of fuel and occupants!

Then to decide between air shocks or adding a leaf. As I stated previous I had air shocks back in the day and had nothing but problems, but this is now and that was then. I still think it would be inconvenient to be running around looking for air every-time I want to hook up.

The compressor addition option is too much $$$ for me.

[SteveC7010]

Then to decide between air shocks or adding a leaf. As I stated previous I had air shocks back in the day and had nothing but problems, but this is now and that was then. I still think it would be inconvenient to be running around looking for air every-time I want to hook up.

The compressor addition option is too much $$$ for me.

Consider helper springs. They don't even kick in until you add extra weight.

That said, watch your tires and psi very carefully when you tow. You loose a lot of payload if you run the tires too soft.

[kiwi2000]

Are helper springs different than adding a leaf?
Is the source for the helper springs the truck dealership or?

[SteveC7010]

Are helper springs different than adding a leaf?
Is the source for the helper springs the truck dealership or?

If you simply add a leaf to an existing spring pack, you beat the sag, but it also makes the truck ride a lot stiffer.

Helper springs go in the spring pack, but they are designed such that they don't do anything to affect the ride or sag if the truck is empty. Add a couple of thousand pounds, and the helper springs do their job.

Talk to someone at a competent truck spring shop. You'd be wasting your time talking to a Ford dealer.

[kiwi2000]

You'd be wasting your time talking to a Ford dealer.

It is unfortunate but I am finding that this is indeed the case.

[Halibutman214]

If you want to solve the problem get the Helper Springs and the Air Bags, and yes Air Bags have came a long way.

[rhagfo]

So the number you need to watch and not exceed is GAWR! This is listed on the door jam sticker in both KG. and LB, if you have more weight on the rear axle than the GAWR you are dangerously over loaded and air bags or springs will not fix that!!!

[CampDestinations.com]

x2 on the airbags. They are adjustable, reduce sag, and can contribute to a more stable ride. When you are empty, air them down to the minimum psi and you won't know they are there. Air shocks are not the same thing and typically cannot handle the loads that air bags can take. Firestone Riderites have the capacity you need and a good rep. I use Airlift but I'm not lifting nearly as much weight as you are.

[rhagfo]

x2 on the airbags. They are adjustable, reduce sag, and can contribute to a more stable ride. When you are empty, air them down to the minimum psi and you won't know they are there. Air shocks are not the same thing and typically cannot handle the loads that air bags can take. Firestone Riderites have the capacity you need and a good rep. I use Airlift but I'm not lifting nearly as much weight as you are.

Air. Air bags do not solve an over loaded GAWR issue, make sure you are NOT exceeding your GAWR on either axle, Your only real solution may be a bigger truck or smaller trailer!

[CampDestinations.com]

Air. Air bags do not solve an over loaded GAWR issue, make sure you are NOT exceeding your GAWR on either axle, Your only real solution may be a bigger truck or smaller trailer!

Seems from the OP's earlier comment that he's become aware that he's overweight. Yes, air bags will not fix the overload, but it sounds like he's going to try running it that way anyhow. In that case, air bags will help with the sag.

[rhagfo]

Seems from the OP's earlier comment that he's become aware that he's overweight. Yes, air bags will not fix the overload, but it sounds like he's going to try running it that way anyhow. In that case, air bags will help with the sag.

Well this is both bad logic and dangerous!

While I am almost 1,000# over my GVW, I am still over 1,000# UNDER my rear GAWR!

Exceeding GAWR on a 1/2 ton is asking for a busted axle and a big wreck!

[CampDestinations.com]

Not trying to be abrasive, and maybe I'm just dense (My wife would say so :-P ) But how is 1000# over the GVW ok, but a few hundred over GAW isn't?

[Big Boy w/ Big Toys]

Kiwi2000

You can get the spacer blocks from an F350. They are taller. The rear springs are about the same between the 250 vs 350. The 250 is a floater axle so do not worry a bunch about busting an axle. Depending on how much yo are towing vs travelling empty would be the issues of airbags vs overload springs. Even thou I do not have them I would pick airbags over overload springs.

[rhagfo]

Not trying to be abrasive, and maybe I'm just dense (My wife would say so :-P ) But how is 1000# over the GVW ok, but a few hundred over GAW isn't?

Well because GVW is based on HP as much as load capacity. In 2001 my Cummins was only rated at 235 HP, I now have about 285 and I've 600 ft. Lbs. the trucks stated GVW is 8,800# I run at 9,700 with three adults in the truck. I am still at only about 85% of my total GAWR. Floater or not that is one max I will not exceed!
I still sit level with my 5er connected.

[smiller]

I'm not sure about Ford but Dodge HD 3/4 and 1-ton trucks all use the same axle, rated at 10,120 lbs. (exact same brakes as well.) The limiting factor on GAWR on these trucks is the tires, hence the usual figure of around 6,000-6,500 lbs (two load range E tires) on SRW and of course more on DRW. Point being, your tires will be shreds long before you come close to the actual axle rating on most HD SRW trucks.

If you are within the GCWR and GAWR then I wouldn't fret being slightly over GVWR when towing a trailer, since the trailer will handle most of its own braking load. If I was carrying a camper where all the weight was on the vehicle with no additional tires or brakes to share the load then I would be more inclined to consider GVWR as some kind of absolute, otherwise not so much... within limits of course, and never exceed any tire ratings, period.

[kiwi2000]

I have spoken to a truck repair company and they state the rubber wedge a better idea than the overload/helper leaf spring. It only comes into play when loaded.

I think that is the direction I will follow before we hit the open road.
Many thanks to all that have contributed.

G & M
The Frozen North
2010 F250 Supercab diesel
2010 Montana Mountaineer
& Cleo our Mini dachshund

gvwr, gcwr, gawr, gvw, etc, etc, etc. Too many of these type abbreviations.

[Big Boy w/ Big Toys]

What is the rubber wedge? Anything placed in the spring or nearer to the spring will come into play during spring compression, more then you think. I have a truck with overload springs and they hit pretty regular.

[flybouy]

Unfortunately truck or spring shops will recommend what they sell for the best profit margin. Having towed boats and campers for 30 years I have used every scheme out there including the overload coil spring over the shock.
For me the air bag and on board compressor is the best, most 18 wheeler tractors use this as well as the trailers if the cargo is fragile.
You have to consider your use and budget when deciding, just be cautious of advice from anyone who stands to profit from your decision.

[kenn209]

Take your camper and truck loaded for camping, as you would normally tow and head to the nearest CAT scale, Do both camper and truck and then weigh the truck by itself. Then you will have real world numbers.

http://catscale.com/ to find the closest one.

If you looking just to level the truck I had Firestone ride rites on my last truck, They work great for leveling out the rig.

[Halibutman214]

I have spoken to a truck repair company and they state the rubber wedge a better idea than the overload/helper leaf spring. It only comes into play when loaded.

I think that is the direction I will follow before we hit the open road.
Many thanks to all that have contributed.

G & M
The Frozen North
2010 F250 Supercab diesel
2010 Montana Mountaineer
& Cleo our Mini dachshund

gvwr, gcwr, gawr, gvw, etc, etc, etc. Too many of these type abbreviations.I give on this one. Like many here have been saying the helper leaf spring does not come into play until loaded! If a truck repair place told me to put a rubber wedge in over the extra spring I think I would be looking elsewhere but it's your rig.

[SteveC7010]

I give on this one. Like many here have been saying the helper leaf spring does not come into play until loaded! If a truck repair place told me to put a rubber wedge in over the extra spring I think I would be looking elsewhere but it's your rig.

+1. Fully agree!!


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?rkrbrg

[rhagfo]

Take your camper and truck loaded for camping, as you would normally tow and head to the nearest CAT scale, Do both camper and truck and then weigh the truck by itself. Then you will have real world numbers.

http://catscale.com/ to find the closest one.

If you looking just to level the truck I had Firestone ride rites on my last truck, They work great for leveling out the rig.

^^^^ I agree ^^^^
The only way to know for sure!
Even a state weigh station off hours will work. Weigh each axle and trailer axle(s), then drop trailer and weigh truck axles again. Post the weights and the GVWR and front and rear GAWR.
Then we can see if just need to level or are overloaded on your axles!

[kiwi2000]

This is what I was referring to when I said "rubber blocks"

http://www.timbren.com/timbren-application-guides/application-pdfs/FR250SDF.pdf

http://www.timbren.com/aeon-rubber-springs.htm

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Learn more about typical uses of our Hollow Rubber Springs here >>

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[rhagfo]

Kiwi2000,
We almost have enough information to help you make a safe decision.
We have asked for some real weights, this requires you taking the truck and trailer to a scale Cat or State (off hours) and get the following weights.
This assumes trailer and truck loaded for a trip.
First with Tralier attached;
Truck front axle
Truck rear axle
Trailer axles (weigh together).

Second drop the trailer and weigh the truck.
Truck front axle
Truck rear axle

I believe that we also already have the door sticker info, but you could include again.
Front axle GAWR pounds
Rear axle GAWR pounds
GVWR in pounds

Thanks