Ford's Diesel Engine - Earlier & Recent Designs

[geo]

The 6.0 and the 6.4 were also international engines and the reason Ford has been sued for staggering amounts of money.

The 6.7 is having valve issues(the exhaust valves overheat and break a piece off, which goes through the engine). It seems to be a programming issue as it is always same cylinder (cant remember which now). Ford is trying to keep this very quiet.

Most of the failures are in commercial high load/stress use...... The Scorpion engine has a long way to go before it earns its credibility (not just advertising hype)

(Trumpet fanfare). Yes! Let the Truck Wars commence! "bouncey:

Littlejoe - I think you are confusing the 2004-07 Navistar engine with the current Ford designed and manufactured 6.7L diesel engine. Don't worry, it's a well documented mistake on many forums and one used frequently by competing company dealers' salespeople. Basically it's FUD sales. It's well documented the the Navistar #8 cylinder exhaust valve would fail and the cause was likely glowplug failure. Big lawsuit against Ford, who in turn pressed a big lawsuit against IH Navistar. In fact, if you have one of these Navistar 6.0L diesel engines, you can still find class action lawyers to get you in to the fray!

But it's not the Scorpion ... sorry.

Ron

[LittleJoe]

(Trumpet fanfare). Yes! Let the Truck Wars commence! "bouncey:

Littlejoe - I think you are confusing the 2004-07 Navistar engine with the current Ford designed and manufactured 6.7L diesel engine. Don't worry, it's a well documented mistake on many forums and one used frequently by competing company dealers' salespeople. Basically it's FUD sales. It's well documented the the Navistar #8 cylinder exhaust valve would fail and the cause was likely glowplug failure. Big lawsuit against Ford, who in turn pressed a big lawsuit against IH Navistar. In fact, if you have one of these Navistar 6.0L diesel engines, you can still find class action lawyers to get you in to the fray!

But it's not the Scorpion ... sorry.

Ron

I am fully aware of the 6.0 and 6.4 problems and did not go into them. The 6.7L (code name scorpion during development) is having major engine failures caused by valve overheating and is supposedly related to software glitch in ecm programming. The engine is and instant boat anchor when this happens. Ford is trying to keep the low % failures quiet.

I hope they get it ironed out and not on the backs of the owners. I have nothing at all against Ford, I just get fed up with companies using the customer as the guinea pig , not only FORD.

The rush to bring new equipment to market is all that matters. The long term testing is not near long enough to show up these types of failures.

[geo]

I am fully aware of the 6.0 and 6.4 problems and did not go into them. The 6.7L (code name scorpion during development) is having major engine failures caused by valve overheating and is supposedly related to software glitch in ecm programming. The engine is and instant boat anchor when this happens. Ford is trying to keep the low % failures quiet.

I hope they get it ironed out and not on the backs of the owners. I have nothing at all against Ford, I just get fed up with companies using the customer as the guinea pig , not only FORD.

The rush to bring new equipment to market is all that matters. The long term testing is not near long enough to show up these types of failures.

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) is very common in sales and politics. I used it myself selling geophysical software. Not proud of doing that, but I did. Please back your hearsay with facts, references, or other documentation.

Thanks,

Ron

[LittleJoe]

FUD......too funny.

I am basing my info on what I have seen with my own eyes. I do not have pictures,but these failures were in Ont Hydro trucks. Ont Hydro ,at least in the Fleet that my close friend is a manager of is no longer buying F350-,450 or 550 with Diesel, and are using V10 gas which by the way is barely cracking 5mpg, because they cannot afford the unscheduled lengthy downtime.

I have been in and around the trucking industry for many years and and operated a successful business(with my brother) (Pacific Inland Powertrain).

I don't get on the forums much, and can only offer my learned opinion and experience. If you care to ignore it , thats fine. Think of me the first time you have to lift the cab off your ford to work on the engine(on your dime).:eek:

I wish you and or anyone the best of luck with there potential high $ repair costs in the diesel line. I am also rolling the dice with my older Dodge but am not willing to go newer until , they are proven, and only time will do that. JMO of course"bouncey:

[fla-gypsy]

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) is very common in sales and politics. I used it myself selling geophysical software. Not proud of doing that, but I did. Please back your hearsay with facts, references, or other documentation.

Thanks,

Ron

x2. Rumors and hearsay on supposed engine failures in no way serves to educate any of us. There have been a few reported fuel system failures initiated from the Bosch HPFP failures that has also taken place on another brand as well. The problem appears to be related to fuel lubricity and the number of failures has been statisticly irrelevant to the total number produced. Some owners unwisely did things (ignored warning indicators, failed to act immediately, did not follow recommended guidelines) that Ford has used to deny warranty claims in some cases which I feel is shameful but that is a different matter. These HP fuel systems are complicated, expensive, and can do a lot of damage downstream if they fail.

On to the V-10 which I am an owner of and your information is inaccurate. My V-10 gets 12.3 mpg around town in mixed driving.

[LittleJoe]

[On to the V-10 which I am an owner of and your information is inaccurate. My V-10 gets 12.3 mpg around town in mixed driving.[/QUOTE]


I was referring to F350,450, and 550. Read utility body, trucks that are at there GVWR rating with the equipment they carry.

My information is NOT inaccurate thankyou. Apparently realworld experiences, of what is really happening is not worth consideration. If you want to be closed minded and stick your head in the sand on info that dosen't suit you, then that's why this is a free country.:rolleyes:

I'm done on this one:banghead:

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

As I have a 6.0L Thought I'd check and see;

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/01/30/FordCA.pdf

It's long but interesting.....

hankaye

[geo]

Littlejoe -

I'm sure you feel your information is accurate. And I would encourage you to contact "Car and Driver" magazine and possibly some lawyers to bring action that would benefit all of us.

Here is the last article on the 6.7L Ford Diesel I can find in "Car and Driver":


http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-upgrades-super-duty-6-7-liter-power-stroke-diesel-to-400-hp-and-800-lb-ft-offers-reflash-for-early-adopters/

You might also be interested in the following link:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/31/beware-the-scorpion-2011-ford-super-duty-gets-all-new-6-7-liter/


Hankaye -

I know you are probably maintaining and watching your truck quite closely, even before this information. Thank you so much for yours, and others, input, and particularly the link to some information. You might also want to look at:

http://classactionlawsuitsinthenews.com/class-action-lawsuit-complaints/ford-motor-navistar-class-action-lawsuit-complaint-filed-over-6l-power-stroke-diesel-engine/

http://hughesellzey.com/consumer-protection/Ford-F-Series.html

http://www.newsinferno.com/defective-products/ford-super-duty-truck-excursion-vehicle-engine-woes-prompt-lawsuits

Ron

[LeeMedic]

I have a 2000 Ford Excursion with the 7.3! She pulls like a tank! I have been told by several mechanics that the 7.3 was the best out there and to never sell my Excursion.

I use her to pull my 35' RV trailer.

[Jim W]

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) is very common in sales and politics. I used it myself selling geophysical software. Not proud of doing that, but I did. Please back your hearsay with facts, references, or other documentation.

Thanks,

Ron
Ron,
Here is one artical from RV NET on the new 6.7L engine.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/25714993.cfm
This is from Turbo Diesel Register. COM
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/general-diesel-topics/229405-6-7l-ford-issues-round-two.html
Here is another issue on the 6.7L also.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/general-diesel-topics/230397-well-here-we-go-again-6-7l-ford.html
Jim W.

[rhagfo]

I have a 2000 Ford Excursion with the 7.3! She pulls like a tank! I have been told by several mechanics that the 7.3 was the best out there and to never sell my Excursion.

I use her to pull my 35' RV trailer.

When Ford started messing with the 7.3 the Ford Diesel started to fade. I was a Ford man until it came time to chose a Diesel truck, I bought a Cummins, the Dodge came with it.

I am at 250K miles, and still pull my 12K#, 33' Copper Canyon just fine. I easily see getting 500K of strong towing out of this rig.

Hankaye, I think the Ford 6.0's issues are mostly preventable with good maintenance and some simple mods.
I believe that Diesel Tech just ran an article on a $500 fix to the issue.

[fivergeezer]

My son is a Certified H.D. Diesel mechanic for a mid-west municipality. He just completed a Ford Factory training session on the new 6.7 diesel as his city employer seems to purchase mostly Ford Trucks. He said the tech. trainer acknowledged the valve failures and said that if the new 6.7 diesel turns out to be as troublesome as the 6.0 and 6.4 I.H.'s, Ford will drop out of the light-duty diesel market and stick to its gas-powered trucks. They should've stuck with the 7.3. It was bulletproof!

[rhagfo]

Howdy All;

As I have a 6.0L Thought I'd check and see;

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/01/30/FordCA.pdf

It's long but interesting.....

hankaye

Hankaye, i was wrong about the article May 2012 Diesel Power mag.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/ford/1205dp_fix_your_power_stroke_ficm_with_simple_hand tools/

[flybouy]

My son is a Certified H.D. Diesel mechanic for a mid-west municipality. He just completed a Ford Factory training session on the new 6.7 diesel as his city employer seems to purchase mostly Ford Trucks. He said the tech. trainer acknowledged the valve failures and said that if the new 6.7 diesel turns out to be as troublesome as the 6.0 and 6.4 I.H.'s, Ford will drop out of the light-duty diesel market and stick to its gas-powered trucks. They should've stuck with the 7.3. It was bulletproof!

It wasn't Fords choice to continue producing the 7.3 but rather the fact that the engine was too dirty for the new emission standards, the same low sulfur emission standards that put 80% of the WV coal mines out of business when the high sulfur coal could not be used in electric power generating plants.

[LouSlugger]

I have a 2009 F250 with the 6.4 and about 70K miles and it has run and pulled flawlessly.

[geo]

Ron,
Here is one artical from RV NET on the new 6.7L engine.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/25714993.cfm
This is from Turbo Diesel Register. COM
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/general-diesel-topics/229405-6-7l-ford-issues-round-two.html
Here is another issue on the 6.7L also.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/general-diesel-topics/230397-well-here-we-go-again-6-7l-ford.html
Jim W.

Jim -

I am sure you would be interested in:

http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-cummins-diesel/280603-piston-ring-failure.html

http://www.mycarlady.com/2011/10/12/dodge-ram-2500-3500-dpf-6-7l-lawsuit-update/

http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/6.7L-cummins-recalls.html

If one printed off your references and took them to a lawyer, do you think that lawyer would consider it worthy of a lawsuit? The references you gave are again "hearsay". In fact, one of the forums you referenced also referenced another forum. I'm surprised it didn't reference this forum back!

Look, no matter how many people tell you that the material is exquisite, beautiful, elegant, and expensive, the fact of the matter is the emperor is still walking down the street naked.

To all -

We have let ourselves become too easily swayed by hearsay in so much of our everyday life. So far, everything anyone has said is "my buddy has a buddy that said . . ." or something similar. Has anyone else noticed that absolutely no member of our Forum has weighed in on this post to say "My Ford engine disintegrated!"? Not even the Forum Administrator who is also a 2011 Ford F350 diesel owner!

Now, have any of us run out to dump our Keystone RV based upon any of the scathing posts on this very Forum that lambast the Keystone RV product? Did all the Alpine owners run out and dump their Alpines after the one very persisitant person (now banned) crossposted and spammed the Forum with his accusations, even developed a Website to air his accusations, hoping to get some sort of restitution from Keystone? I see a lot of Keystone owners still on this Forum.

I do not doubt that there have been some "bad" 6.7L Ford diesel engines out there. Times past, I bought new a 1999 Dodge Dakota that had an engine electrical failure before I even got 1500 miles on it! Diamler Chrysler repaired it, and I drove it for 160,000+ miles until the second weekend of May 2010! And I hated selling it because it was a great truck! I still see it here in North Texas! But would I be one of those on the Forum to ask, "Can I Pull A 15,500 Pound Alpine 3650RL With A Dodge Dakota?"

These Truck Wars are senseless. All they do is drive discord in the Forum. You like your truck. I like my truck. We both feel that we made a good decision and are probably happy with our own decision. But should I FORCE my choice upon you? This is way too 1984!

Look, find some facts to share with all of us. Not hearsay, FACTS! If there is a problem, many of us would probably like to know what to watch out for. Look, Hankaye could have a Ford with a possible future problem, but I am sure he is thankful that the problem has been brought to his attention. I seriously doubt if he will go out Monday and sell his truck.

And I seriously doubt if any and all the lambasting and complaining posted on this Forum will cause Ford or Keystone to claim bankruptcy.

Ron

[geo]

It wasn't Fords choice to continue producing the 7.3 but rather the fact that the engine was too dirty for the new emission standards, the same low sulfur emission standards that put 80% of the WV coal mines out of business when the high sulfur coal could not be used in electric power generating plants.

Flybouy -

You are correct. The 7.3 was a Navistar engine. Due to the problems with the "whole" of the relationship between Ford, Navistar, and Ford's customers, Ford dropped IH Navistar as an diesel engine provider. The fact that the more stringent emissions standard came at the same time was just fortunate for the Ford engine design.

Ron

[hankaye]

geo, Howdy;

Please read some (first 20 or 30 pages), and you'll see that IH is still making the diesel engines, made the 6.0 and 6.4's.
You'll also note that Ford sued IH for not fixing the problems and the class action suit is using that against Ford.

I aim to join the suit and that way (hopefully ), will get a suitiable fix to the problem.

hankaye

[Str8shooter]

geo, well said - thank you!

A great source for the Ford 6.7L diesel owner and others is the Ford Truck Enthusiasts forum http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum205/ specific to the 6.7L engine, a great owners forum. Real posts from real owners.

Like you say, we don't run from our Keystones at every problem or potential problems others may have experienced. When the "perfect" truck company comes along I'll check them out. For me the only issue has been a replacement front steering stabilizer. I can't say enough good things at this point with just over 36,000 miles since driving off the lot on 6-3-2010. In those miles we have pulled our Keystone Raptor well over 5,000 miles. Bad stuff can happen but not so much with our truck so far.

I encourage others to review the forum and see what issues, problems, and accolades owners have posted.

Have a great day all!

[geo]

geo, Howdy;

Please read some (first 20 or 30 pages), and you'll see that IH is still making the diesel engines, made the 6.0 and 6.4's.
You'll also note that Ford sued IH for not fixing the problems and the class action suit is using that against Ford.

I aim to join the suit and that way (hopefully ), will get a suitiable fix to the problem.

hankaye

Hankaye -

Of course you are correct. Legal briefs are so lengthy! And, yes, the Navistar diesels are still being produced. Just not for Ford F-series trucks. And yes, the lawsuit for the Navistar problems are against Ford who is in-turn suing IH Navistar. Isn't our legal system great? :eek: Customers are suing Ford in a Class-Action Suit, and Ford is suing IH Navistar in response to that suit. The customers of Ford are not part of the Ford suit against Navistar. Too bad. The customers should be able to sue the responsible party!

I would encourage you to join the class action suit against Ford as soon as you can. You should do this to protect your investment and you. Please, PM me with your progress.

Ron

[fla-gypsy]

For those guys who have Ford diesels that have been completely trouble free you have a ticking time bomb according to some on this forum. LOL I have owned 3 SuperDuty's purchased between 03 and 09 (all gas engines) and I have yet to make any motor repairs. As a matter of fact I have had no repairs of any kind just routine maintenance so I guess we were all just "lucky".

[Str8shooter]

For those guys who have Ford diesels that have been completely trouble free you have a ticking time bomb according to some on this forum. LOL I have owned 3 SuperDuty's purchased between 03 and 09 (all gas engines) and I have yet to make any motor repairs. As a matter of fact I have had no repairs of any kind just routine maintenance so I guess we were all just "lucky".

Exactly why I wear ear plugs when driving the beast - just don't want to hear it when she blows! ;)

[EcoboostKev]

For those guys who have Ford diesels that have been completely trouble free you have a ticking time bomb according to some on this forum. LOL I have owned 3 SuperDuty's purchased between 03 and 09 (all gas engines) and I have yet to make any motor repairs. As a matter of fact I have had no repairs of any kind just routine maintenance so I guess we were all just "lucky". It's not just the Ford diesels, It is also the new Ecoboost that is a ticking time bomb!! Even though it has been in production since 2009-10 when it came out in the Lincoln's and Ford Taurus SHO.. I do know that they have had a few small issues but nothing major. Just like what was said about the 6.7 diesel when you compare the number of trucks with a problem to the number of trucks that are actually sold and on the road running fine the % is miniscule.

[SAABDOCTOR]

AS With any engine maintanance has a lot to do with it! and no one ever beats there truck or misses an oil change! i have had the pleasure of a couple of 6.0 fords and i do not want to work on them again. as far as the 6.7 i have not seen anything yet. as far as 6.7 cummins i have heard of issues with turbos cats! i will keep my 5.9 cummins thank you no issues yet hope hope. jmho. if the epa and the feds stayed out of the diesels all would be ok. low sulpher fuel is good, but cats and variable inlet turbos. are just a great place to collect soot and stop working! thats my rant for the week i will go away noand just fix cars!!(tx)

[rhagfo]

AS With any engine maintanance has a lot to do with it! and no one ever beats there truck or misses an oil change! i have had the pleasure of a couple of 6.0 fords and i do not want to work on them again. as far as the 6.7 i have not seen anything yet. as far as 6.7 cummins i have heard of issues with turbos cats! i will keep my 5.9 cummins thank you no issues yet hope hope. jmho. if the epa and the feds stayed out of the diesels all would be ok. low sulpher fuel is good, but cats and variable inlet turbos. are just a great place to collect soot and stop working! thats my rant for the week i will go away noand just fix cars!!(tx)

I could not agree more, mine has 250K and pulls my 33' 11K# Copper Canyon just fine! This may be the last TV that i buy.

[fla-gypsy]

I feel no need to bash any brand and I trust everyones tow vehicle will give them the satisfaction that mine gives.. Everyone purchases what they think will work best for them, just as I did.

[rhagfo]

I feel no need to bash any brand and I trust everyones tow vehicle will give them the satisfaction that mine gives.. Everyone purchases what they think will work best for them, just as I did.

Not a Bash, just a statement EPA and emissions are making it tough on ALL Diesels. If i can start taking the 5er out two times a month I may look at going to 10K oil changes. I would not do that with a newer diesel of any make due to fuel dilution of the oil.
My Cummins is an 01, I have the dreaded VP44 injection pump failure hanging over my head! That is a $1,000 part, labor extra! I need to add a lubricant to my fuel, and keep a sharp eye on my Fuel pressure to keep it happy.

The closest to perfect Diesels are early IH 7.3 PS, and the 5.9 12 valve Cummins.

[fla-gypsy]

Not a Bash, just a statement EPA and emissions are making it tough on ALL Diesels. If i can start taking the 5er out two times a month I may look at going to 10K oil changes. I would not do that with a newer diesel of any make due to fuel dilution of the oil.
My Cummins is an 01, I have the dreaded VP44 injection pump failure hanging over my head! That is a $1,000 part, labor extra! I need to add a lubricant to my fuel, and keep a sharp eye on my Fuel pressure to keep it happy.

The closest to perfect Diesels are early IH 7.3 PS, and the 5.9 12 valve Cummins.

I didn't intend for it to seem I was saying you were bashing. My apologies. This thread did start out as a bashing thread of Ford but is turning into a more civil discussion thankfully.

[Festus2]

Whenever the subject of towing and tow vehicles comes up on the forum, there is always the potential of the posts becoming argumentative and uncivil. Thankfully, there seems to have been a general understanding of and appreciation for the different makes and models of tow vehicles that our members drive. Written thoughts expessed in posts may be misinterpreted resulting in further misunderstanding amongst members.
As was pointed out in one of the previous posts, each of us seems quite happy with whatever truck we happen to own and use to tow whether it be a Ford, Dodge, GM or Toyota. When was the last time you read a post about a member being disgruntled with his tow vehicle? Seems like we are all pretty much satisified with what we have. Now on the other hand, if Keystone would only label those d**n dump valves correctly and put on some decent decals!

[hankpage]

The closest to perfect Diesels are early IH 7.3 PS, and the 5.9 12 valve Cummins.

Oh I miss my '94 12 valve. ........... if only it had a crew-cab


Festu2, Nice try to change the subject. (especially for a DMax guy) (tx) But I have to agree that this argument will go on forever as long as there are men and their toys.

[Hansel]

As a owner of a 2000 F-250 SD CC with a 7.3L with almost 230,000 miles, I can say that Ford has shot themselves in the foot with thier diesel program. Ford wants to blame International for the 6.0L problems when it was Ford that forced IH to push out the engine to keep up with Chevy and the Duramx diesel. I don't know all the in's and out's of all the legal junk, but I can tell ya that the Federal Government as killed the diesel truck era, it's all about politics.


Personally I love my 7.3L and you couldn't give me a new 6.7L:D

[geo]

Hansel -
I trust that you keep your 7.3 in top condition. However, I missed any factual references to your comments about Ford and the Government. Of course, political bashing is quite frowned upon in the Forum. I am pleased you like your truck. I happen to like my truck also and am quite proud of the fact that it has equipment built in to reduce NOx pollutants. I would certainly decline a gift of a 7.3L. I'm old enough to remember visiting my aunt and uncle in Los Angeles and never really seeing the sun, only a bright disk obscured by green/brown smog. As a geophysicist, I see the changes that our pollutants have made. And as I am sure everyone would agree that there have been Federal and State mandates to protect the environment, I would also like to think that RVers would be leading that effort. I, for one, enjoy waking up to bright, clear mornings, blue sky, and the singing of birds. It saddens me to see the Grand Canyon today, the smoke haze that obscures its beauty, and then see my past pictures of the breath-taking view of the early 1960s.

I am also sure that we all would be pleased to read any factual information that you might have concerning Ford and IH Navistar. Or any factual information on the demise of the diesel.

Ron

[antiqfreq]

Our 2003 7.3 diesel doesn't smoke when driving but maybe a puff of it when first cranking.

When we looked for a truck to pull our fiver in 2007 we knew we wanted the 7.3 and found a used one with 86,000 miles. Now has 145,000 and we only use it for towing the fiver.

Only repair done to the engine was a glow plug sensor about 1 1/2 years ago. Otherwise it is a gem.

If we ever do buy another diesel it probably won't be a FORD though!

Jo

[geo]

Our 2003 7.3 diesel doesn't smoke when driving but maybe a puff of it when first cranking.

When we looked for a truck to pull our fiver in 2007 we knew we wanted the 7.3 and found a used one with 86,000 miles. Now has 145,000 and we only use it for towing the fiver.

Only repair done to the engine was a glow plug sensor about 1 1/2 years ago. Otherwise it is a gem.

If we ever do buy another diesel it probably won't be a FORD though!

Jo

Jo -

It sounds like you do like your truck. And at a future time, I bet you will buy a truck that you like! "bouncey: When ever that time comes!

What surprises me in the Truck Wars is that many want to limit competition amongst the truck manufacturers. It seems that there is a promotion of one type of truck, and if you don't have that brand or model, then you are "out". I certainly doubt of any of us would be happy if there was only one brand/model of truck, or one brand/model of RV.

After all, isn't that part of the purpose of this Forum, to give a place for All Keystone owners a place to exchange ideas, seek assistance, and be a part of a community made of many different individuals? No matter what your TV is.

Let's see, I have owned one Chevy, two Dodge, and two Ford trucks, plus countless small cars! I guess I'm multi-lingual! :D

Ron

[Hansel]

Geo,

I too hate to see the haze over the NE Georgia area, but my truck IMHO has a tiny part in that condition, but I believe it's been big industry that has caused a majority of the problem, and it's been the governement that's allowed it, and like everything we know, who pays for it!!! Us the general consumer. That's my thought's, I'm not trying to start any bashing or political issue's, I too want things to protect the enviroment, trust me I love spending time in the woods hunting, and someday God willing I want to travel with my wife to the Grand Canyon.

Poor air quality is a global issue I think, and clean burning diesel I'm fine with it, but with what Ford has done with thier diesel program I'm not touching it with a 10ft pole and it's not the emmisions piece's that are the problem, so for me until Ford can product a near bullet proof engine like a 7.3L I'm not buying one. So we are of two different worlds, you love the new stuff, and I'm not truly sold on it yet.

[geo]

Geo,

I too hate to see the haze over the NE Georgia area, but my truck IMHO has a tiny part in that condition, but I believe it's been big industry that has caused a majority of the problem, and it's been the governement that's allowed it, and like everything we know, who pays for it!!! Us the general consumer. That's my thought's, I'm not trying to start any bashing or political issue's, I too want things to protect the enviroment, trust me I love spending time in the woods hunting, and someday God willing I want to travel with my wife to the Grand Canyon.

Poor air quality is a global issue I think, and clean burning diesel I'm fine with it, but with what Ford has done with thier diesel program I'm not touching it with a 10ft pole and it's not the emmisions piece's that are the problem, so for me until Ford can product a near bullet proof engine like a 7.3L I'm not buying one. So we are of two different worlds, you love the new stuff, and I'm not truly sold on it yet.

Hansel -

Actually, it's all of us, including me, who have contributed to the problem. Not only "big industry", all of us. And you are correct, in the past, there has been a general lack of understanding and accepted policies for our actions that have caused problems in today's and tomorrow's world. Some things, we cannot change, but others we can. Poor air quality IS a global issue, but in some areas, it's more concentrated, such as Los Angeles and even Atlanta. But if everyone contributed to the solution, no matter how small and insignificant you might think that contribution to be, it would make a huge difference!

I can't remember who said "If it's mechanical, expect it to break down." I think that applies to any of these TVs. I will say that discarding the modifications, I have had a lot more trouble with my Alpine than my Ford! :( And you are absolutely correct, I do like the new stuff! It's interesting to see how things change. I guess one gets that way after six decades! :D For me, I think it is absolutely amazing what Ford has done with their diesel program once they dropped IH Navistar.

Ron

[Hansel]

Geo,

Granted Ford has made some really interesting designs like reversing the air flow into the cylinder heads, I hope that in the years too come Ford will work out all the issue's. At this time with kids getting ready to start college I will not see a new truck anytime soon, so maybe by the time my trusty 7.3L die's Ford will again have put the diesel truck back too the 7.3L standard of darn near bullet proof.

As far as the air here near Atlanta, there are not enough counties doing a emmision requirement. Which is until the entire area does it's not doing enough.

[SAABDOCTOR]

OH RHAGAFO THANK YOU!!! That many miles on your doge I only have 68k you give me hope. i have been a mechanic for 42 years watched saab go from 2 strokes to oblivion. volvos go from ugly to egg rolls and the asian cars go from rust buckets to some real nice cars and the domestics wait they made in mexico and canadaare they still domestics ha ha ha! go from solid reliable cars to techno computor driven nightmares. but i will state flat out.. maintance is the key take care of it and will do right by you"bouncey:

[2011 keystone]

This thread is like the energizer bunny it just keeps going and going and going I think every one needs to agree to disagree on this one.
Because my truck is the best truck to me
Your truck is the best to you
And his/her truck is the best to him/her

Have a great day 2011keystone out LOL

[jje1960]

Little Joe wrote:
"The 6.7L (code name scorpion during development) is having major engine failures caused by valve overheating and is supposedly related to software glitch in ecm programming. The engine is and instant boat anchor when this happens. Ford is trying to keep the low % failures quiet."

I've seen nothing (mine or otherwise) concerning this, if this is poison pen work, needs to be ignored (or better deleted) the new Ford Super Duty motors are cream of the crop as far as I've observed.

[Festus2]

This thread is like the energizer bunny it just keeps going and going and going I think every one needs to agree to disagree on this one.

What if we took out the batteries? Would it help? A 30-day cease fire or truce perhaps? :yawn:

[Hansel]

I will stop"bouncey:"bouncey:"bouncey:(tx)

[LittleJoe]

Little Joe wrote:
"The 6.7L (code name scorpion during development) is having major engine failures caused by valve overheating and is supposedly related to software glitch in ecm programming. The engine is and instant boat anchor when this happens. Ford is trying to keep the low % failures quiet."

I've seen nothing (mine or otherwise) concerning this, if this is poison pen work, needs to be ignored (or better deleted) the new Ford Super Duty motors are cream of the crop as far as I've observed.

jje1960. I sincerely hope you never experience this failure, and are one of the high percentage who will get acceptable service from your new truck.:)

[jje1960]

jje1960. I sincerely hope you never experience this failure, and are one of the high percentage who will get acceptable service from your new truck.:)
Thanks Joe, appreciate the kind words. Hopefully we will not be anywhere near a catastrophic failure with this truck, sure do have a bunch invested that's for sure. This was a once n' a lifetime purchase for us.