2012 End Cap Fade

[CampJKL]

Just got back from a weekend jaunt, parked the RV and noticed in direct sunlight the cap is fading! That nice dark grey is turning lighter at the top and working its way down.

http://img.tapatalk.com/421936e4-d73a-f41d.jpg

Sad to see since we only bought it in July 2011. And unfortunately the RV faces west. Would have figured over time but less than a year?

Anyone else experience this on the new 2012 paint scheme? Any suggestions for a good wax maybe?

[f6bits]

People swear by 303 Aerospace Protectant.
http://www.303products.com/

[CampJKL]

I'll take a look... Its oxidized up top... Hopefully it will bring the original color back. Thanks

[grayghost03]

Have you waxed or applied any protectant, since you bought it?

[CampJKL]

Have you waxed or applied any protectant, since you bought it?

No... Guess I assumed!

[CampDestinations.com]

I wonder if it's oxidizing versus sun-fading. Also wonder if LiquidGlass might be good on that cap. Seems to work great on my cars. It's pricey though.

Pardon my thinking out loud :)

[CampJKL]

I wonder if it's oxidizing versus sun-fading. Also wonder if LiquidGlass might be good on that cap. Seems to work great on my cars. It's pricey though.

Pardon my thinking out loud :)

No prob here... What ever it is, DW and i agree it aint right. Always open for suggestions!

[Camp I am]

Now I got to go look closer at mine. And if all is well Im spraying some 303 on it pronto! :cool:

[Tim&Patty]

Gee, it's always fun to join another club :( Last week my dealer replaced all of the graphics on my 2011 High Country 291LRS nose, Keystone ate the graphics and installation, all last month we cleaned roof (well RHDW did), three other sides, windows and waxed (Liquid Gloss) all but the nose. I didn't notice that the nose had oxidation from the top 2/3 of the way down because the graphics made me sick. The mountains were peeling and the swoops (maybe global warming?), the dealer didn't want me to wax the nose so I didn't. Went out to the lot today and WOW do I have my work cut out!
Polishing Compound didn't even touch it.
Going back tonight to try rubbing compound.

[Festus2]

Have you checked into any marine fiberglass restoring products? Ive found that many marine products work very well on RV's. 3M makes a few of them for use on oxidized fiberglass boat hulls - "3M Marine Rubbing Compound". Not sure if the cap of your RV is fiberglass or some other material but it might be worth checking out.

[Tim&Patty]

I'll try the rubbing compound when it warms up around noon, in the morning I'm contacting Keystone because I'm not sure what the nose is constructed with, me thinks it's molded plastic not fiberglass. I found a care manual, but all it talks about is GelCoat and fiberglass, I'm not going to get crazy with 400 grit sandpaper.

Thanks,
Tim

[Tim&Patty]

Festus2,
Talked to Jamie at Keystone this morning, I wasn't sure what the composition of the nose was (wasn't the same as sidewalls) and he assured me that it was fiberglass and covered with gel coat, the Keystone care bulletin is correct tho if it were his he'd raise the wet/dry sandpaper to like 800. Since he had worked for a contractor that makes most of the caps, he recommended I start with a 3M product called Star Bright (marine use), and didn't recomend 303 on the dark parts, says it turns them a funky color (technical term) A shopping I will go :bdance:

[Festus2]

Tim:
If you can find an inconspicious spot to see how the 3M Star Brite and the 800 sandpaper are working, that would be worth considering. If the back is the same gelcoated fiberglass as the front, could you try it out there first?
(When I say "you try it out" will "you" be doing it or your very capable multi-tasking wife, RHDW? And BTW, I'm still at my picnic table waiting for the TP to break up.)
Good luck with the restoration.......!

[Tim&Patty]

Festus2,
And I'm still waiting for my grand prizes!!!! Well she was or has 3 sides done in Gel Gloss, and I'm thinking a small spot above the front running light on the drivers side would be only noticed by me (tho is will drive me crazy) I don't care what they say the 800grit sandpaper will be the last resort :rolleyes:

As far a RHDW, the inside is hers and the outside is mine (execpt the roof, as 5'7" a buck and a quarter vs 6'1" 210 lbs, I'd like to keep the roof as long as I can "bouncey:) same with the stick house ( I do allow her to park in MY garage tho). Should be above 50 this afternoon and will attack at 1400. I just wish I'd found this before the new graphics were installed by the dealer, course then I wish I had my grand prizes also :bdance:

[Comptech]

I think this polish would be the ticket....

Description:
The most durable polish for all painted, fiberglass and metal surfaces. Easy to apply and provides a beautiful gloss that reduces drag while it repels dirt, grime and stains. Ideal for all fresh water and salt water marine applications.

Options:


Features: The ultimate protection for fiberglass, metal and painted surfaces. Lasts up to 6 times longer than other marine waxes. UV inhibitors help prevent fading and oxidation. Easy to use - just wipe on, let dry, wipe off. Leaves a super-smooth, durable, no-stick coating that reduces drag as it repels dirt grime and stains.





Remarks:
There is no better protection or longer-lasting product on the market. Star brite chemists have made an incredible scientific, technological breakthrough - a polish that leaves an unbelievably tough, yet super-slick finish which actually repels dirt, grime, oil and stains. PTEF® is Star brite's registered trademark name for polytetraflouroethylene.



http://www.starbrite.com/productdetail.cfm?ID=1114&ProductCat=Marine&ProductSCat=Marine%20Polishes&ProductSSCat=Marine%20Waxes%20%26%20Polish

[CampJKL]

As the thread starter... Thanks for the responses. I just have not had time to "get 'r dun".

I did buy some recommended polish now... Fingers crossed for no weird color variations!

I want to take a better "Before" shot and of course an after shot... All as time permits.

[CampJKL]

1270

Update - DONE
I purchased the recommended 3M restoration wax and after washing everything, tackled the cap. Once I started (As you can see by the photo)I had no choice but to finish!!! Now I'll go back and polish with the star brite at some point.

A noticeable difference!

[billstuart]

Star Brite makes a "Marine Polish with Teflon" that I used for years on my boats with great satisfaction, you might give that a try. You can get it at West Marine or Boater's World.

[CampJKL]

Well $&(:-$>~#!!! It's faded again. Word is Keystone knows about the issue but won't deal with it. Nice as I see others fading as we travel around...

[Death1]

Just checked my front cab and it is also fading. WTH!!! I wax mine at least once a month.

[JRTJH]

Have you tried just "plain ole" 303 on it? I have a Tracker boat with a dark gray plastic console. It was sun faded on one side (sits in the cradle east/west) and I tried 303 since nothing else seemed to work. The 303 "darkened" it up pretty well. Lasted about 2 months and started to dry out and get lighter, so I reapplied the 303 and it's dark again. I've been doing this for about 3 years now and the console looks even and not faded until the 303 needs to be reapplied. I rub a little on it about every 2 months or so and at storage time I put a good liberal coat which seems to last through the winter.

[Lack of HP]

My front cap is fading also. Bought my 6/2011. Waxed regular. I wax mine fade goes away for about 2 to 3 days and then returns. From roof line comes down about 3 ft.. I too have noticed they are all starting to fade. I guess we own them. I have extended warranty, doesn't cover that. I have used Turtle Ice and it has done better than most. Liquid. Very easy to put on and get off. HP

[Death1]

So I called Keystone and talked to a woman named Kara about my brand new Cougar that is only 6 months old and is fading on the front cap from the roof line down about a foot or so. I asked her what Keystone was going to do about it. Kara said NOTHING for it is cosmetic only and does not affect the camper and that it was my issue to "wax" it. WOW, WOW, WOW!!!! So Keystone is not going to make this right. I called Beckleys Camping where I purchased the camper and was informed that I am the 5 person to complain about the cap fading on a new camper. I informed Beckleys what Kara had said and they stated that was the same answer that they were given. So everyone needs to call Keystone about this issue. I can tell you that I will NEVER buy a Keystone product ever again if this is not fixed!!! Cosmetic only !!

[smiller]

I think on my next unit I will order the special white front cap... ;)

[JRTJH]

I am NOT trying to add "insult to injury" with this statement, but am attempting to put this into perspective. We're talking about fading on the front cap of an RV and the factory is calling it "cosmetic"

If you look around at cars and trucks, you can find a number of red, gold, bronze and silver vehicles with paint peeling off the front fenders and roofs. That's also "cosmetic" and from what I understand, the manufacturers (Ford, GM and Chrysler) are standing by saying this is "cosmetic" and they are not repairing the paint flaws.

There's also a "rail dust" issue with new cars, seems iron particles get embedded in the clear coat finish during transportation and after a few months, these particles start to rust. This gives the appearance of "rusting through the panels" and the dealership/factory are calling this "cosmetic" also. My wife's Escape has this problem and her "Bright Sage Metallic Clearcoat" finish is spotted with "brown" Looks like "*&$%" to me, and Ford says, "It's cosmetic"

So, my point is, this happens in more than RV's...... Getting upset won't make the fading go away, threatening Keystone by saying, "I'll never buy again" won't fix it. Seems that the only recourse is probalby going to be keep waxing regularly, use 303 frequently, trade for a different model, or like smiller said, special order a white one next time. I'm sure that Keystone is watching this issue and plans to make changes in the product to prevent the issue, but that won't help current owners. They also "improved" the entertainment center by installing 32" TV's in place of 26" ones, but previous owners didn't get a new TV either.....

I've seen RV's from all manufacturers with faded panels (usually on the darker shades of RV) so I wouldn't say this is "keystone specific"

Additionally, anyone with white plastic fixtures on their RV will tell you that over time (as little as "at delivery") some of the plastic starts to yellow and other parts stay white. Keystone calls this cosmetic also. It looks like "crap" just like the front end cap looks like "crap" and both are being treated equally..... "it's cosmetic" and nothing is being done to repair/replace components in either situation. It's not just end caps that fade and discolor, but it's all "cosmetic" and it is happening to virtually every RV owned by members of this forum.

[DJ85]

So what your saying is they win we lose again. Hearing that tone more and more lately. But anyway yes i agree with what your saying it is what it is like it or not. We have been through this before someone will find a way to slow it down or keep it from happening. I understand paint fades but in 6 months it is a little to fast I think. You can wet sand it you can polish it you can 303 it and all your going to do is slow it down. When they make the cap the color is placed in the mold. Its a processing problem plain and simple. There won't be any fix except to replace it with a new and improved better processing cap. Like it or not!!!!! As everyone else will tell you it's just my honest opinion... Please someone prove me wrong. Sorry for the attitude in my response but I didn't spend this much money to be told it's only cosmedic

[JRTJH]

So what your saying is they win we lose again. Hearing that tone more and more lately. But anyway yes i agree with what your saying it is what it is like it or not. We have been through this before someone will find a way to slow it down or keep it from happening. I understand paint fades but in 6 months it is a little to fast I think. You can wet sand it you can polish it you can 303 it and all your going to do is slow it down. When they make the cap the color is placed in the mold. Its a processing problem plain and simple. There won't be any fix except to replace it with a new and improved better processing cap. Like it or not!!!!! As everyone else will tell you it's just my honest opinion... Please someone prove me wrong. Sorry for the attitude in my response but I didn't spend this much money to be told it's only cosmedic

No, I'm not saying, "they win we lose again." What I'm saying is that all manufacturers exclude cosmetic issues in their warranty.

Here's Airstream's warranty: WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY THIS LIMITED WARRANTY
This Limited Warranty does not provide coverage for any of the following:
1. Tires, batteries, stereo, television, range/stove, furnace, refrigerator, water
heater, microwave, generator, slide-out mechanisms, and other materials,
parts and components warranted by persons or entities other than Airstream.
Please refer to the warranties of component manufacturers for terms and
conditions of coverage;
2. Any part or component of the trailer that was not manufactured or installed
by Airstream;
3. Normal deterioration due to wear or exposure, including but not limited to
rust, corrosion, oxidation, and cosmetic blemishes;

Here's Jayco's warranty: WHAT IS NOT COVERED
By way of example only, this limited warranty does not cover any of the following: defects in materials, components or parts of the RV not... normal wear, tear or usage, such as tears, punctures, soiling, mildew, fading, or discoloration of exterior plastic or fiberglass, or soft goods, such as upholstery, drapes, carpet, vinyl, screens, cushions, mattresses and fabrics; the effects of condensation or moisture from condensation inside the RV; mold or any damage caused by mold to the inside or outside of the RV; imperfections that do not affect the suitability of the RV for its intended purpose of recreational use or items that are working as designed but that you are unhappy with; problems, including water leaks, ...

Here's Ford's warranty: Damage Caused by Use and/or the Environment
The New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover surface rust, deterioration and damage of paint, trim, upholstery, and other appearance items that result from use and/or exposure to the elements. You, as the owner, are responsible for these items.

I could continue, but hopefully the exclusion of "deterioration and/or fading" from the warranty of nearly every RV and vehicle is understood. I can't find any manufacturer who includes fading in the warranty. Some may at their option and as a "good will gesture" repair or replace an item, but that is not an obligation on the part of any manufacturer. Good luck with your RV, but choosing to buy another brand next time most likely won't assure you any better warranty from fading end caps.

[byrdr1]

Thanks for this news. I missed the Grey front by one month.
I have waxed my front cap and the rest of the camper with the Protectant thats comes from CW in white bottle with blue lettering. I had a gallon of it for a while and waxed & polished everything we owned.. I cant think of its name for some reason.

[tundraman67]

When I purchased my new cougar a month ago I was looking at the grey fronts, but every one on the lot had the same issue: Keystones and KZs - every trailer and 5th wheel that had a painted front. Some of them were really bad and the saleswoman said they would have to paint them over because the owner wouldn't sell them like that. She also told me that every one that she sold this year that had a colored front end has come back for that specific issue and they had to turn them away because the warranty wouldn't cover it. I immediately told my DW that we were finding one with a white cap and we did and love it. I have used starbrite on my last unit and it seemed to not last as long as Meguiar's marine/rv wax. I have used it and it lasts about 6 months and comes off easier - I found it at a marine store but they have it here: http://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-Boat-RV-Cleaner-Wax/dp/B0000AY50X

Hope this helps.

:)

[DJ85]

Okay here is my point when I say they win we lose! Back some years ago Ford started having issues with the rail dust getting into the clear coat. They allowed us two paint jobs a month. When the dollars started adding up they then went to one paint jobs a month. They were at least fixing the problem. So people started complaining that if they were not going to fix their vehicle they would just go something else. So Ford quit allowing anything to be cosmetic redone unless you jump through hoops rolled over beg and scratch their belly. Sound familuar? They saw they were losing sales. So they started a 75/35 payment plan they paid 75% you paid 25%. Then the famous cover up started anybody remember seeing cars arrive at the dealer ship cover in white plastic yep that was Ford's fix and believe it or not it worked. Now for phase two the cost of the plastic went up remember supply and demand here! So they quit covering them up. Now we are right back to where we started Get it they win we lose? They know there is a problem, but now they covered it in the aahh yes the famous owners manual. Ever hear the one about the lest read book? Yep its the owners manual. So now onto keystone do they know they have a problem? You bet they do and what do you think they will do with it. He is right by telling them you will never buy a keystone again will get you no where. What we need to do is the power is in number. If everyone of us parked side by side and showed the world what we are taking from Keystone they could not act fast enough. Remember who is trying to become the #1 selling unit what do you think that would do to their ratings. Don't get me wrong here we love our camper faded cap or not. But here it is either we all do something or forget it all togather. Bottom line can you live with it or can you not? Thanks for listening

[Poppy's 5th Wheel]

To get this back on track ... has anyone tried this product:

http://www.poliglow-int.com/poli-glow/

I've heard it called a miracle cure and have watched the videos and it just looks too hard to me because I'm basically a lazy guy :rofl:

[rnkburg]

Yes, I have it. I used it on my boat that was starting to fade a little (95 model) It does a great job, but I can't stress enough CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN if you don't get it perfectly clean before applying, it will bring out the dirt and put it under the layer that the Polyshield applies. There cleaner is ok but doesn't get it all like they say. You can't spend enough time cleaning.

With that being said, it's been 2 years I think, and my shine is still there with this product. It does go on easy, and you do need to apply a few coats to get it right. I would recommend it.

[CampJKL]

Hey gang... Original poster here. I again want to thank all of the contributions to this thread. As has been stated before, looks like all of us including dealers are stuck with the fading issue.

Sad as you'd think Keystone would want their products looking good as they are rolling advertisements. I got a real sharp 2012 RV until you see the front... Looks like it is 10 years old.

[mikell]

Ford rail dust is not the issue it's the foundry dust from wherever final assembly is. rail dust will wash off foundry dust is spiked shaped and sticks. The city of Vassar Michigan nearly everyone in town gets a new paint job every year because of a foundry till they closed and took 400 jobs.

Okay here is my point when I say they win we lose! Back some years ago Ford started having issues with the rail dust getting into the clear coat. They allowed us two paint jobs a month. When the dollars started adding up they then went to one paint jobs a month. They were at least fixing the problem. So people started complaining that if they were not going to fix their vehicle they would just go something else. So Ford quit allowing anything to be cosmetic redone unless you jump through hoops rolled over beg and scratch their belly. Sound familuar? They saw they were losing sales. So they started a 75/35 payment plan they paid 75% you paid 25%. Then the famous cover up started anybody remember seeing cars arrive at the dealer ship cover in white plastic yep that was Ford's fix and believe it or not it worked. Now for phase two the cost of the plastic went up remember supply and demand here! So they quit covering them up. Now we are right back to where we started Get it they win we lose? They know there is a problem, but now they covered it in the aahh yes the famous owners manual. Ever hear the one about the lest read book? Yep its the owners manual. So now onto keystone do they know they have a problem? You bet they do and what do you think they will do with it. He is right by telling them you will never buy a keystone again will get you no where. What we need to do is the power is in number. If everyone of us parked side by side and showed the world what we are taking from Keystone they could not act fast enough. Remember who is trying to become the #1 selling unit what do you think that would do to their ratings. Don't get me wrong here we love our camper faded cap or not. But here it is either we all do something or forget it all togather. Bottom line can you live with it or can you not? Thanks for listening

[SAABDOCTOR]

as jrtjh stated cosmetics are not covered by warranty. been that way for years. we all signed that agreement when we bought our units. yes Every montana i have owned had a fadding front cap. elbow grease works and there are some products suggestedhere that are good. sometimes i do get an attitude. put your big boy pants on and get waxing! if we are going toband together make it a safty issue... something important which keystone seems to do well. Yes i would prefere to bedoing something ealse other than wax the cap several times a year but it keeps me looking like i am doing something and the dw doesn't give me something ealse to do! so it works out in the end. wax on rum and coke wax off. repeat till you don't care:banghead:

[Death1]

Just got off the phone with Beckley's Camping center. They have sent my pics along with several others to Keystone for warranty. Keystone is now talking about painting the front cap to solve this issue. So it seems that Keystone is starting to step up to the plate here.

[TNT Miller]

Can you use 303 protectant on all surfaces such as fiberglass and decals on all sides ? how about the rubber roof ?

[JRTJH]

Can you use 303 protectant on all surfaces such as fiberglass and decals on all sides ? how about the rubber roof ?

I use 303 on all my RV surfaces (especially the rubber roof), on my vinyl tonneau cover and tires on the truck as well as the interior and exterior vinyl surfaces on the truck.

[TNT Miller]

Thank you JRTJH . I just got my 2013 Laredo 266RL back from camping world (I had it for two trips and they have had it for over a month ) Now I can detail it the correct way (tx)
Todd

[DJ85]

I have found that there are times I should just shut up and just listen to what people say and watch what they do. Some how I am thinking this is one of those times. :banghead: I am getting better at it there was a time when I never thought twice about. Now I at least think about it just need to do it sooner. Hope all are well and healthy and living your dreams!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[chris199]

Anyone know who makes the end cap? Keystone or some plastics molder?

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

[CampJKL]

Just got off the phone with Beckley's Camping center. They have sent my pics along with several others to Keystone for warranty. Keystone is now talking about painting the front cap to solve this issue. So it seems that Keystone is starting to step up to the plate here.

Really? What's the status? Have they truly admitted fault? I want mine redone but of course even though it's a 2012 I'm out of the original warranty.

[bandit403]

Really? What's the status? Have they truly admitted fault? I want mine redone but of course even though it's a 2012 I'm out of the original warranty.

I have a 2011 Cougar, purchased April 2011, and at first loved the 'silver edition' with the painted Silver front cap, in 2011 these were really rare, and made it stand out a bit more then the usual RV. People would comment on the grey and how it stood out from the norm. However, my end cap is really starting to fade now, to be REALLY noticable.

I hope some sort of organized effort can occur to show the vendor how concerning this is.

The biggest point in my mind is marketing, looking at a cougar (or any) trailer with a front Cap half faded, is going to look absolutely inferior to another product that isn't. I guarantee you that people that see this, will automatically start to discount and question the quality of a trailer, workmanship, and/or build materials. We are not talking about a small component of the trailer, the front cap is an attention getting brand display.

I hope they consider a solution to this, - Cosmetic yes, sure, I have no doubt of this, but as more and more of these hit the road, if they all look like this, will build a reputation in my view.

I just called my local dealer where we purchased this from and the service person I talked to was dumbfounded, had absolutly no idea what to say and have never heard of this before, - but said she wanted pictures and will contact keystone...

I also had (hang head here) opted for the sealant/protectant finish they ask if you want on purchase, this may have very short-term helped but a year into owning the RV it's fading more by the week....

[Death1]

WOW!!!!!! So Beckley Camping Center in Thurmont, MD just called me and Keystone is going to repair the cap!!!!!!!!! Their fix is to scuff the front gel coat, repaint the front cap and apply a new clear gel coat. It seems that the existing gel coat is the issue. I am glad that Keystone is stepping up on this issue.

[Camp I am]

Good to hear. I havnt noticed any fading yet but I'll be watching for it.

[CampJKL]

WOW!!!!!! So Beckley Camping Center in Thurmont, MD just called me and Keystone is going to repair the cap!!!!!!!!! Their fix is to scuff the front gel coat, repaint the front cap and apply a new clear gel coat. It seems that the existing gel coat is the issue. I am glad that Keystone is stepping up on this issue.

Sent you a PM

[Kenworth]

I just bought a new 2012 293SAB 2 weeks ago, and noticed it when we picked it up. I just figured it was lime dust, as the dealer has a dust lot, but when I got home and washed, and scrubbed, then applied a heavy coat of wax...it doesn't look any better than before...guess I will contact my dealer and try to get this resolved also...

[Bushman512000]

This is how I fixed My end cap that looked like crap...just made a swell bug landing pad...LOL...Bushman:D

[highrider]

Bushman, sorry if this has been covered already but what did you use to clean your front cap so well? The unit I just bought had lost the sticker completely and all that is left is the dirty sticky residue part. It looks pretty bad and I figure having it clean like yours is the best option.

I would love to know what products you used and the steps/ process. Might do this tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

[highrider]

So, after seeing bushman's efforts and how good his cap looks without the decal, I decided that was the way to go. Thanks for the advise, bushman.

Before:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/17/u8e2u7u9.jpg

After:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/17/yraruhan.jpg

[Bushman512000]

great job, nice to help out. I always said if the Man wants to do some thing the Man will have a plan...What is Your next Mod.?there are menny to keep You hopping our trailers look the same on drivers side But You have a 2nd slide NICE..Have a great day John..The Bushman see You down the road lol:D"bouncey:this is also now on the Cougar

[mismith]

Hello, we just joined and found this forum when looking for "end cap fade". We too have the end cap fade. We just bought a brand new 2011 Cougar 318 SAB a couple weeks ago from Campers INN in Mocksville, NC. They had a couple left over from last year and we got a deal on it. The cap was faded on the lot and we asked about it before we bought it. The salesman assured us that they would polish it out and it would be good. Boy that was a joke! It did look when we went to pick it up on delivery however it did not last. It was faded out terrible again within a week. I need all the help I can get to make sure Keystone takes care of this. I don't care what the warranty says, this is a Defect and they need to take care of it. We took it on our first trip this past week at Ocean Lakes near Myrtle Beach. It got a lot of attention but Keystone got some very bad advertising with that nose cap. It looks 10 years old and neglected and the rest shines like new money. It was a turn off to many potential buyers. There was one other Cougar like ours there from PA and it had the same fade. We had the local pressure washer detailer guy who works in there to look at it. He said he did not want to touch it and we need to contact Keystone for this Defect. He said no other RV he has detailed looks that bad for no older than it is. I am going to contact Keystone today and see what they say. It looks like from earlier posts that they will re-paint it but might depend on who you talk to. Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks,
Mike

[greende]

I have been following this thread since the beginning. We have a 2012 293SAB that is just about a year old now. So far no fade but I will update if there is any change.

[Death1]

OK so people are asking who I talked to at Keystone about getting my fadding cap repaired. I did not talk to anyone at Keystone, other then to tell them how unhappy I was with it and their lack of response to repairing it. Now Pam and Keith at Beckleys Camping Center in Thurmount, MD are the ones who called and went to bat for not just me but 4 other people with the same issue. Who they talked to at Keystone they will not say. However here is what Keystone is going to do; they will scratch off the old gel coat, paint with like color, clear coat and new decals. Beckleys can not get me in till NOV 5th and it will take about a week or 2 to finish. I did ask what if this does not work?? They are still working on that answer with Keystone.

[mismith]

UPDATE!! Good News for me too! I submitted pictures of my end cap fade on my 2011 318 SAB to our Dealer Campers Inn of Mocksville. They sent the pictures in to Keystone for review. I got an email saying that Keystone has agreed to strip and re-paint our end cap. All we have to do is call them to set up an appointment with the paint shop. Awesome! What a blessing! Keystone is doing right by fixing this. I hope everyone else gets theirs fixed too.
Mike

[Festus2]

Mike -
It might be worthwhile submitting a brief post about this service in the Keystone RV Service/Support Kudos section of the forum.

[dakingsella]

My 2012 Cougar does not seem to have any fading, though luckily I face the north when in storage. Another thing is that I had Duratain applied when I purchased it. :confused: Have always sort of regretted that one, but maybe it was worth the cost.

[mrghan]

Have same problem on my Cougar High Country. Dealer told me common and Keystone will repaint covered under the manafactures warrentee

Glenn

[dakingsella]

If I'm not mistaking, the mfg Warranty is only for one year.

[Azdryheat]

Sun damage? I'm not surprised. Rarely in my travels do I ever see an RV, of any kind, with a cover while in storage. I saw a Montana, a year older than my Everest, with the decals peeling off. Does the owner not care? And how many owners keep wax on their rig to ward off the sun while on the road?

I keep my Everest waxed and it is kept out of the AZ sun with an ADCO Designer Cover. I simply refuse to let my rig sit out in the damaging sun and rot.

[TimothyJ]

We got our 2012 325SRX on closeout in Oct of '12.
The fade became apparent in late February. I went to Central Valley RV Repair in Fresno. They took and sent pix to Keystone and THAT SAME AFTERNOON we got approval for a repaint/clear coat/new decals. The shop got decals in a week. I took it in after we finished our local runs last week. I'll be picking our unit up next week and expect to have it looking better than when we bought it.
The folks at this repair shop are terrific (Mark)!
I'll report back after I get our SRX back home.

[gwvwadc]

We picked up our 321RES last October - took it out for a "test run" before it got too cold and had to take it back for some warranty issues. Dealer called me about 4 days after we left it and said they had noticed a problem with the fading end cap. Called me back about a week later and stated that they had obtained permission from Keystone to fix under warranty. While it took a while (it was winter and we weren't going to use the trailer anyway), it was completely taken care of. The only problem was replacement of the decals - seems Keystone has changed vendors and had a problem with the new decal colors matching. We picked the trailer up last weekend and brought it home - really looks good now. Thanks to our dealer for stepping up to this and making the necessary repairs.

[koda13]

We just picked up our 2014 31SQB. Mfg date was May 28, 2013. Wonder if Keystone has done anything different in the manufacturing process of the colored nose cap to help prevent this issue??

[dakingsella]

I have the 2012 Cougar 327RES and mine is fading bad. I park it facing north so the only part that gets the sun is the upper part of the nose cap and that is where it is fading. The fading is moving down though.

I had Duratain applied when I bought it and that hasn't helped. Apparently from what I have read on this and other forums, nothing will help. It will need to be repainted.

[Yosemitebob]

What I have is in my signature, mine was faded when I bought it. They (dealer) talked to Keystone and they are repainting it, but I'm not having the decals put back on as they are always the first item to start fading. Got it back today and it looks great! Automotive style painting with a clear coat over it. Waxing next month.

[jje1960]

Realize I've posted this in other threads..... Proof in the pictures..... We had the same problem on our 2011 as everyone else... 3M MARINE CLEANER & WAX 1 STEP #09009 worked well for us.

[tileman]

Realize I've posted this in other threads..... Proof in the pictures..... We had the same problem on our 2011 as everyone else... 3M MARINE CLEANER & WAX 1 STEP #09009 worked well for us.

Looks great.

Went out today and got on top of the fuzion and yep about 6" all across the top is flat black no shine at all.

I used some wax and the 303 on it no shine at all :(:(

The 3M you used did you use a buffer on it or by hand.

Ron.

[jje1960]

Looks great.

Went out today and got on top of the fuzion and yep about 6" all across the top is flat black no shine at all.

I used some wax and the 303 on it no shine at all :(:(

The 3M you used did you use a buffer on it or by hand.

Ron.
Used cheap RYOBI 6" hand buffer from Home Depot, worked great.

[tileman]

Used cheap RYOBI 6" hand buffer from Home Depot, worked great.

Thanks for the info I need to get mine done soon.

[beer breath]

I received a letter from my dealer telling me to check for the fading. They said that they have seen this not only on the 5ers but also other campers too. Mine has the fading at the very top. It goes to the dealer right after Thanksgiving for a paint job. I am very pleased with both the dealer and Keystone so far.
I hope the rest of you have the same success.

[MConnelly]

Before doing anything find out what finish you are working with.
If fiberglass Gel Coat, then rubbing compound and a power buffer will remove the oxidation and then re-polish the surface. Then wax and use the 303 if desired.
If your rig has a "full paint" finish. You are most likely dealing with clear coat over paint.
Polishing compound, safe for clear coat, applied with a power buffer will clean up the clear coat. Then wax and 303 if desired.
Tough to say for sure but you picture looks like and acts like a Gel Coat finish.
I doubt very seriously that you will be able to do any oxidation removal by hand. A drill runs to fast. You need a buffer. Careful what bonnet you use , they come in different hardnesses for different applications.
Application of any was or sealant is a waste of time until the surface oxidation is dealt with. Hope this helps

[Jim7411]

If it's oxidation, try a little fine rubbing compound followed by a coat of good wax. Griot's Garage has a wonderful selection of products. Maybe Keystone didn't test their new color scheme against the elements before they introduced it.

[tinman694]

Just for kicks, had to chime in on this. Have a 2007 310srx and the front was dull with the peeling graphic. Cleaned the front and removed and replaced the graphic and did the Zep floor wax treatment to the fiberglass front cap. It has been over a year--and the cap is very shiny and bugs wash right off when I use regular car wash. It took me about 2 hours from start to finish and I do not have to worry about the front any more...

[CampJKL]

Hi folks.

Well since I started this thread let me bring you up-to-date. Roughly less than a year ago I contacted Keystone and their customer service representatives. Their head guy there indicated I should use poli-glow. Like an idiot, I didn't press the issue and decided to try the poli-glow... followed the directions to a T and at first it look like a decent job. However it's fading worse than it did originally.

What a PITA. Well, I'm glad at least I spurred the rest of you on...

I think I'll just LineX the d##n thing.

Safe Travels.

(Going Tiffin next time. :-) )

[jje1960]

I've posted this a number of times..3M MARINE CLEANER & WAX. 1 STEP PROCESS. 09009

[faded end cap]

have a 2012 couger 318 sab. end cap fade is working down from top,i have kept it inside or in the shade, while in texas this winter,i visited with a keystone dealer delivering a new montana to the park i was in,he thought keystone would repaint end cap, because if i would have bought it in texas, and left it out in the sun it would have faded badly the first year, sent pics to dealer and called keystone, they say it is out of the warrenty period,keystone surley knew it had a problem, they should have had a recall, instead, they repaired the campers, that were parked in the sun more so in the southern states, and hoped dummies like me would not notice it untill the warrenty period was over. now i have a camper; with a known problem, and when i trade or sell it it will be worth less, or i can pay to have it repainted, i think i am done with keystone.

[abby33]

Our 2012 Montana High Country's cap started fading about 3 months out of warranty. After gong back and forth with Keystone last summer, they authorized the dealer to do remediation which consisted of buffing out the oxidation and polishing and waxing the cap. Keystone also recommended that I treat the cap with POLIGLOW. So far the cap is holding up well and I am going to reapply whatever wax the dealer used as soon as I get a couple of decent days. Not sure if I like the POLIGLOW idea.

[dakingsella]

Gentlemen,

None of the treatments for the faded nose cap will solve the problem. You are throwing money and effort away. Sorry to break the news but that is the fact. I discovered fade on my 2012 Cougar about 6 months ago. I had Duratain (it is a sealant that is supposed to protect the finish) applied when I purchased it so my first effort was to get the Duratain folks to handle my problem. They have dealt with several of these issues and what they have determined is that it is not surface oxidation but fading that occurs from inside out, so it is not a surface problem that wax will solve.

I contacted my dealer and they filed a warranty claim with Keystone even though it was out of warranty. Keystone denied the warranty claim and said that I should have been waxing it. Which doesn't help! Keystone won't admit that it is a product defect.

After being told Keystone had denied the claim, I contacted them directly and ask them to make it good. Needless to say, our conversation was quite contentious.

I went back to my dealer and escalated the issue to their management, and they jumped into the negotiation with Keystone. Long story short, and it is a long story; Keystone agreed to provide the decals and contributed a sizable amount to the painting of the nose cap. My dealer agreed to split the fairly small amount that remained to cover the cost of painting the nose cap and reapplying the decals.

Being out of warranty, Keystone is probably in the right to decline to own the issue but it is a product defect and with persistence you can get them to make a contribution and reduce your costs, but it takes some hard negotiation and a good dealer to support you.

I can't say enough about buying from a reputable dealer, they are the key to getting things done.

I have attached a couple (After) pictures of my 327RES.

Dave

[jje1960]

Gentlemen,

None of the treatments for the faded nose cap will solve the problem. You are throwing money and effort away. Sorry to break the news but that is the fact. I discovered fade on my 2012 Cougar about 6 months ago. I had Duratain (it is a sealant that is supposed to protect the finish) applied when I purchased it so my first effort was to get the Duratain folks to handle my problem. They have dealt with several of these issues and what they have determined is that it is not surface oxidation but fading that occurs from inside out, so it is not a surface problem that wax will solve.

I contacted my dealer and they filed a warranty claim with Keystone even though it was out of warranty. Keystone denied the warranty claim and said that I should have been waxing it. Which doesn't help! Keystone won't admit that it is a product defect.

After being told Keystone had denied the claim, I contacted them directly and ask them to make it good. Needless to say, our conversation was quite contentious.

I went back to my dealer and escalated the issue to their management, and they jumped into the negotiation with Keystone. Long story short, and it is a long story; Keystone agreed to provide the decals and contributed a sizable amount to the painting of the nose cap. My dealer agreed to split the fairly small amount that remained to cover the cost of painting the nose cap and reapplying the decals.

Being out of warranty, Keystone is probably in the right to decline to own the issue but it is a product defect and with persistence you can get them to make a contribution and reduce your costs, but it takes some hard negotiation and a good dealer to support you.

I can't say enough about buying from a reputable dealer, they are the key to getting things done.

I have attached a couple (After) pictures of my 327RES.

Dave

Dave, I must question this post. Only a couple of posts before yours, I showed pictures of the result of using 3M MARINE CLEANER & WAX. 1 STEP PROCESS. 09009. How is this result throwing money away?

[dakingsella]

Give it awhile, it will fade again.

There is a lot of posts on various web sites about this issue. Do some research.

I'm glad you had some good results, I do hope it lasts for you.

Dave

[Pmedic4]

Waxed up some of our Cougar this weekend, and there was some oxidation on the front cap. Nu-Finish took the white oxidation right off, so this is oxidation on ours.
There might be some fading, but there is nothing going to stop that on the brown color caps the Cougar's have, which is why I've always expected they used white on most RV's to minimize the fading. Even your truck or car paint fades, just over the years they have created better paints that resist the fading. If you had an original piece of the finish, and kept it out of the sun, regardless of amount of wax or UV treatment, then compared it to the vehicle finish you'll see fading. That's what autobody shops fight trying to match the color of a 5-6 year old vehicle that needs to have some paint work done.

Don't know if anyone has seen the new Winnebago Minnie Winnie TTs - wonder what how those bright colors will look in 4-5 years.

[homer3]

I have read this blog on and off for a couple of weeks now. It seems that a faded nose/end cape is apparently a fairly common problem. Not sure why Keystone has no issued a recall. I know that this is not a safety issue, however it obviously seems to be a manufacturing defect/problem and they, Keystone need to stand by their product or may loose what appears to be a fair amount of business in the RV world. Wonder if anyone at Keystone even bothers to read anything on this website.

[JRTJH]

I have read this blog on and off for a couple of weeks now. It seems that a faded nose/end cape is apparently a fairly common problem. Not sure why Keystone has no issued a recall. I know that this is not a safety issue, however it obviously seems to be a manufacturing defect/problem and they, Keystone need to stand by their product or may loose what appears to be a fair amount of business in the RV world. Wonder if anyone at Keystone even bothers to read anything on this website.

Check the disclaimer printed in red at the bottom of every Keystone RV.org webpage. Keystone RV Company, (KeystoneRV.com) is not associated with this website, they have no employees that are members (in any official capacity). They don't monitor this website and don't respond to any compliments or criticism posted here.

If you think strongly enough that your comments and beliefs about a recall should be conveyed to Keystone RV Company, if you go to their webpage, http://www.keystonerv.com/ click on the "contact us" link at the center of the bottom of the webpage, a link will open to allow you to express your concerns directly to the company.

The only people who read your comments here are owners of Keystone RV's, people interested in or looking for information on Keystone RV's and guests who happen to find the forum through internet browsing.

You won't get your comments read by Keystone RV Company via this forum.

[Comptech]

My cap was faded too, although I too thought it was the paint fading, it was really a lot of oxidation on the top portion of the cap. I took the hard way and used rubbing compound, then wax. (burnt my old buffer out doing it, lol) The result was very good and it looks almost like new...
Saying that, I do think that the paint is fading slowly..... and eventually no amount of buffing will fix it...

[Pmedic4]

My cap was faded too, although I too thought it was the paint fading, it was really a lot of oxidation on the top portion of the cap. I took the hard way and used rubbing compound, then wax. (burnt my old buffer out doing it, lol) The result was very good and it looks almost like new...
Saying that, I do think that the paint is fading slowly..... and eventually no amount of buffing will fix it...

We all have to accept that paint is going to oxidize and fade. Unfortunately some sooner than others, for hundreds of reasons.
Like most of the people on here, I've had RV's from several manufacturers, and you know they have have complaints about fading and oxidation.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f29/painted-front-caps-fading-48516.html

http://www.crossroadsowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6944&highlight=fading

If anyone thinks they are going to escape the effects of the sun, rain, and the same materials used to make all RVs, "good luck".

[Comptech]

I accept that it will fade.. I totally understand. What I don't understand or like is how fast it is fading..... I'm thinking I will invest in some good UV protectent.... I have some of the 303 stuff. Can you apply it over wax?


We all have to accept that paint is going to oxidize and fade. Unfortunately some sooner than others, for hundreds of reasons.
Like most of the people on here, I've had RV's from several manufacturers, and you know they have have complaints about fading and oxidation.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f29/painted-front-caps-fading-48516.html

http://www.crossroadsowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6944&highlight=fading

If anyone thinks they are going to escape the effects of the sun, rain, and the same materials used to make all RVs, "good luck".

[cathcartww]

Our 2012 Outback is one of the last ones to have the white front cap - and maybe that has turned out to be a good thing. Being a long time boat owner, I am intimately familiar with the "care and feeding" of fiberglass gel coat, which is a totally different animal than automotive paint and finishes.

The best bet for keeping gel coat shiny is to keep a good coat of protection - wax, polish, or protectorant - on it from the time it is new. This is harder than it sounds, especially on horizontal surfaces (like the top of the front cap) which take a direct hit from the sun. Dark colors are a lot more difficult than light colors or white. The quality of the gel coat used is also a significant factor - like most things, some are better than others.

Regardless of how often you wax, polish, or seal it, eventually the oxidation will get worse and worse The ultimate solution would be to have a modern automotive paint/clear coat system applied, but that is quite costly, and takes tools, equipment, and skills beyond the capabilities of the typical RV Owner. As someone else stated, painting may be the only real solution if the original gel coat was defective or low quality.

Once the gel coat becomes severely oxidized and porous, polishes and waxes just will not bring it back. There are acrylic coatings like PoliGlo and other marine or RV specific products, or the increasingly popular Home Depot ZEP (formerly Red Max Pro) floor finishes that work by filling the pores in the gel coat and creating sort of an acrylic clear coat on the surface. I have used these products extensively over the years on older boats, and they do give reasonably good results, but have to be renewed at least annually and eventually form a yellowish build up that has to be striped off and the process started over.

Another acrylic product is available. http://www.acrylicwerks.com/ looks like it might be worth the try, and I think I will be trying it on the nose cap next time ......

[homer3]

JRTJH - I realize that Keystone does not read or monitor this blog. Just blowing off steam I guess. I would think they care but apparently not. I contacted them the other day with pictures as my 5er is not a year old yet so still under warranty. Still waiting for their response. Not keeping my fingers crossed. I m sure they are hoping I will just go away. I m going to make second contact with them tomorrow. let you guys know if they come through

[jje1960]

JRTJH - I realize that Keystone does not read or monitor this blog. Just blowing off steam I guess. I would think they care but apparently not. I contacted them the other day with pictures as my 5er is not a year old yet so still under warranty. Still waiting for their response. Not keeping my fingers crossed. I m sure they are hoping I will just go away. I m going to make second contact with them tomorrow. let you guys know if they come through

While you are waiting.... Go get some 3M MARINE CLEANER & WAX 1 STEP #09009 ......

Works great.

[homer3]

I know this is long, please take the time to read.

OK, as I stated the other day I was waiting to hear back from Keystone. Here is there response; I also attached a URL page link that states, RV Gel Coat Finish - Care and Maintenance, "http://petesrv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/rv-gel-coat-finish.pdf."

You will see that this comes up on Keystone Letter Head. After reading this I was dismayed that they would suggest taking any grade of sand paper to the finish. Also attaching some pictures after taking matters into my own hands at this time. Hope it works out. Using the 3M Wax Finisher/Cleaner suggested by other bloggers. Took me about 2-3 hours between washing and applying the wax/cleaner. If this works out great, other wise I guess I will have to battle things out with Dealership (SoCal) and Keystone. Wish me luck.

Below is pasted from email I received from [email protected]

"Thank you for contacting Keystone RV. I have attached a copy of the care and maintenance recomendations for the front cap of your unit to try to assist with restoring. Please note that if you do fall into the category where there is a front cap fade you can have this reviewed by an authorized Keystone RV dealership, and they will submit to us for review in warranty. I have documented your account to note the current fade you are seeing. Because this is noted in warranty we will review as a warranty concern. Please let us know if you have any further questions or concerns. Thank you.

We do recommend contacting your local Keystone/Dutchmen dealer for assistance on repair(s) and or part(s) needed. If you need assistance locating a local dealership, you may utilize our online dealership locator:

For Keystone units: www.keystonerv.com or For Dutchmen units: www.dutchmen.com

If you have further questions or concerns please contact owner relations at (866) 425-4369 Monday-Friday 9am-4pm Est or e-mail [email protected]"

Sincerely,
Alisha Howton
Owner Relations
Ph: (866)-425-4369
Fax: (866)-273-1451
[email protected]

[vantage32fls]

I had same issue with cap fade took it to dealer as directed by Keystone owner relations for assessment. Keystone denied any warranty work, stating that I failed to wax unit three times a year as stated in the owners manual. I bought this trailer April 13, 2013 it was very oxidized on the top of both caps, (couldn't see without ladder until it got home).I used polishing compound and waxed in July. Contacted Keystone in Sept. took to dealer in Nov. with other warranty issues. Was told by Keystone to use wet sandpaper to take oxidization off. I'll try the 3M product next. Another product that I found was Nyalic, it had some great results online, but was rather expensive and had to use their cleaner to wash it.

[homer3]

Hi - Vantage 32fls, make sure you use a descent buffer when applying. I would not apply by hand. There are instructions on back of bottle for both hand and electric application on 3M wax. I can see the difference on mine where the little cheap buffer I was using. I will going to Home Depot and shopping for a better buffer and redo.

[BSHGTO]

Mine hasn't started yet, 2013 model Montana High Country. What I want to know is will covering the camper or at least the front stop this from happening. I have waxed the front cap once a month since purchase. What a pain in the butt.

[concours]

Ours has the same fading on the front end cap and it has been waxed many times. The cap had some Oxidisation on it the day I brought it home I cleaned and waxed it then parked it for the winter the next spring it was back. I have tried everything from Boat cleaner to Professional auto waxes and it returns after 5 days

[Comptech]

Mine hasn't started yet, 2013 model Montana High Country. What I want to know is will covering the camper or at least the front stop this from happening. I have waxed the front cap once a month since purchase. What a pain in the butt.

I would most certainly think it wouldn't hurt..., But only if you can put it in the shade too. I have read posts of people who have covered their RVs only to find they baked the siding right off in the high heat... But I don't know the details...

[BSHGTO]

I would most certainly think it wouldn't hurt..., But only if you can put it in the shade too. I have read posts of people who have covered their RVs only to find they baked the siding right off in the high heat... But I don't know the details...

I did some research and did find some horror stories about delamination and Rv covers, not good, then other people say they have had theirs covered with no problems. Area of country, angle of camper to sun, length of exposure to heat, lack of maintenance, and the supper quality materials they use prolly add up to whether or not your going to have cap fade. Like I said in my last post I have waxed the front with Mothers Carnauba Cleaner-wax once a month since new. I called Mothers wax products and told them of potential problem and they said to hit it hard and often and it won`t happen and it hasn`t yet. I think the only answer is a Rv shelter. I have found them for around $2500 $3000. This the 6th and last camper I`m going to buy (2013 Montana High Country) and want it to look new as long as possible.
We`ll see.

[Comptech]

Good luck... and I know how you feel about wanting it to look good for as long as possible...

[5mary6]

After my local dealer submitted for new paint under warranty and got approved, I finally got it back and it looks like new. They also put on a clear coat!!! "bouncey:

[Comptech]

Great glad to hear the good news...

[abby33]

Can anyone report on how the 3M Cleaner and Wax has held up over time? Dealer waxed and buffed front cap on our 2012 Montana HC last fall. I got up on top to check out how it had held up and see that the fading/oxidation is starting again. Also, was in Florida over the winter (without rv) and checked out a bunch of rv parks use in the future. Just about every camper we saw with a dark front cap (all makes and models included) had fading issues.

[Comptech]

After re-waxing mine it seems to be starting again... although ever so slightly

[CampJKL]

For those who have repainted the end cap, does anybody have an average cost?

[Yosemitebob]

That all depends on type of paint, decals back or not, clear coat or not. Mine was done under warranty, but I added several things Keystone would not pay for, as a good quality paint and clear coat. And sense they, Keystone, would only cover $350.00 I did not but their decals back on. The paint job I have is awesome, protected, and is still holding up well even in this desert heat. But all being said the dealer also gave me a huge break in cost, and they sent it to a detail shop to get painted. I added an amount of money of my own as well, the whole job was 1200.00

[gasa765]

Three months ago we purchased a 2013 327RES. It is out of warranty and we also are getting the front cap fade.
Of all the products recommended previously on this thread, have any of them held up over the long run for this specific problem on our RV's?
Thanks

[chuckster57]

Did you but it new or used. If you bought it "new" it should still be under warranty.

[gasa765]

It is used, although only used once or twice. Therefore, out of warranty.

[BSHGTO]

I did some research and did find some horror stories about delamination and Rv covers, not good, then other people say they have had theirs covered with no problems. Area of country, angle of camper to sun, length of exposure to heat, lack of maintenance, and the supper quality materials they use prolly add up to whether or not your going to have cap fade. Like I said in my last post I have waxed the front with Mothers Carnauba Cleaner-wax once a month since new. I called Mothers wax products and told them of potential problem and they said to hit it hard and often and it won`t happen and it hasn`t yet. I think the only answer is a Rv shelter. I have found them for around $2500 $3000. This the 6th and last camper I`m going to buy (2013 Montana High Country) and want it to look new as long as possible.
We`ll see.

After all my work trying to prevent this from happening we went to Myrtle Beach for 2 weeks and when we got back the cap had started to fade down about a foot. Just a little agitated took it to the dealer and he showed me 2 other gray front High Country`s in for cap fade. Keystone`s excuse of not waxing it enough is a load of cow manure.There is nothing like being lied to with a straight face.
The dealer has informed me I am scheduled in September for painting, clear coat and decals.
We`ll see

[gasa765]

Tried the 3M Cleaner and Wax. Shined up real nice but now after 10 days or so the fade is coming back. Very disappointed that Keystone knows about this problem but won't do anything about it.

[vantage32fls]

Same here, got same reply from keystone. Not waxing three times a year. I get two weeks and it's back.

[koda13]

I've read through this thread and see where some people have had their front caps repainted.....I think some were repainted over a year ago.

I'm curious to know how the repaint is holding up? Is it also now starting to fade, or did they use better paint/clear coat the second time and it's holding up much better.

Mine is a 2014 model bought in May of 2013 and yes, fading as well. Trying to determine if I bring this up with our dealer and keystone and fight the long difficult battle of trying to get Keystone to repaint, only to know the fading will come back in the same amount of time.

[JRTJH]

Keystone seems to be approving some paint jobs and not others. I haven't been able to find any common link in the approvals or the denials. It seems that the few that were approved out of warranty were all very close to the warranty expiration date, so if you are contemplating any dealer assistance, every day you delay is a day less likely to get approval.

Other's will probably offer their experiences, but remember, with the sporadic approvals and multiple disapprovals, there's not any "expectation level" of what Keystone will do. It seems more a "hit and miss" kind of process rather than any logical, well thought out approval/denial concept. Of course that's my perspective being on the outside looking in and not being privy to what Keystone is doing, who is doing it or what their criteria is for the program.

It's seems more hit and miss than anything else.

Good Luck, but I wouldn't delay starting the process.

[dakingsella]

I had mine repainted and it is holding up fine. The original finish was not paint, but jell-coat. It is a finish that is used on fiberglass and is applied during the molding of the fiberglass. The paint/clear coat that is used to refinish the faded nose cap is standard automotive paint and has the same durability as the paint on your vehicle. Mine is standing up beautifully.

[Yosemitebob]

I had mine repainted and it is holding up fine. The original finish was not paint, but jell-coat. It is a finish that is used on fiberglass and is applied during the molding of the fiberglass. The paint/clear coat that is used to refinish the faded nose cap is standard automotive paint and has the same durability as the paint on your vehicle. Mine is standing up beautifully.

Mine went the same direction as the above, however I added a sum to keystone and my dealer. I still have a wonderful front cap. I started this process before I drove off the lot with it, as part of the deal and my dealer convinced keystone.

[Campnfireman]

Just wanted to come in on this issue also. My coat is a 2014 bought may 2013. My camper is our of warranty and I just received approval Friday to have the front cap redone. So I'm roughly 5 months out of warranty. My dealer instructed me to call keystone first to make a complaint and then they would call. That's what we did and it worked.

[Yosemitebob]

It's been a year and a half sense I had mine done. It still looks great. But as I had mentioned earlier, I had an upgrade to what Keystone had offered, I added monies and well as my dealer.

[Firemenfred]

3m make a good veritable grit compound. it works well with a slow speed buffer. i also use a marine product called First Finish, its a polymer base. Florida sun is harsh and it works great

[gasa765]

Keystone is offering 750.00 towards the repainting of the front cap. Our dealer gave us an estimate of 2500.00 to repaint and another 570.00 labor plus whatever the cost of the decals.
I've asked our dealer to go back to Keystone with the estimate and see if Keystone will step up to cover the entire cost.

[JRTJH]

Keystone is offering 750.00 towards the repainting of the front cap. Our dealer gave us an estimate of 2500.00 to repaint and another 570.00 labor plus whatever the cost of the decals.
I've asked our dealer to go back to Keystone with the estimate and see if Keystone will step up to cover the entire cost.

If I recall, you're the second owner, bought this used (and out of warranty when purchased), so anything Keystone does to help, is a "goodwill gesture" on their part. If they are offering $750, I'd think they are being very gracious with your claim. If you check some of the other posts in this topic, you'll see a few actual costs given by others who have had the same problem and repaired their RV. Your dealership's estimate of $2500 for materials and $570 for labor (total $3070) seems to be about double what most people have reported. The costs I remember seeing have been in the $1000-$1500 range. You might want to get some estimates from fiberglass boat repair shops and auto body shops who specialize in fiberglass repair.

Good Luck

[Rex1vt]

22000 views on this topic,I
wonder if this is a big problem.

[JRTJH]

22000 views on this topic,I
wonder if this is a big problem.

I believe the number of views is more indicative of the interest the topic has caused rather than an indication of the size of the problem. There are about 14,000 views on installation of the steadyfast system, 13,500 views on the thread on how to install a bunk bed rail, and 121,800 views on the thread "Let's see your tow vehicle" none of those are "problems" but they all garnered significant reader interest and increased views.

I'd say people are "interested" in end cap fade and are reading what others have experienced, many who don't even own an RV with a dark colored end cap.

[GPG52]

We took possession of our 2014 Cougar 327 RES in May, 2014.
By July 2014 we noticed the fading starting at the top of the cap (which is what most others responding to this thread have indicated).
I contacted our dealer and within 24 hours they had approval and agreed to correct the matter.
As we store our RV with the dealer over the winter we agreed to use the trailer for the balance of the season giving the dealer the winter to repaint, re-decal and replace the eyebrow lighting over the winter.
Looking forward to seeing the end result.
PS: We are lucky to have a great RV dealer, who does care about his customers. :thumbsup::thewave:
GPG52

[Randyj]

We had the exact issue with our 2011 cougar, I solved it fast, traded it.

I know the fellow that bought it from dealer, had dealer repainted it

[Bunkhouse]

We have a 2014 Cougar324rlb. It faded within months of purchase. I was aware of this issue with Cougars when we bought the unit thanks to sites like this. I was originally told by CW that it would just need a polish and buff. I replied telling them that I knew this was an on going issue, and the only option they had was to repaint. I'm happy to say that the unit is currently being repainted at this time. If anyone is still in warranty I encourage them to be nice but very firm in their dealings with the dealer/Keystone.

[Comptech]

I am starting the process of seeing if Keystone will pay to re-paint my front cap on our 2012 330rbk. It is just now 3 years old but the front cap is really bad....
This is the letter I wrote to Keystone... wish me luck.... :)

Hi,
I have owned my Cougar 330 RBK for just three years now and and have good luck with the unit and my wife and I really enjoy the Cougar line. I am however disappointed at the front end cap fade, which I know Keystone is aware of. I know technically the unit is not under warranty, but for a unit that is only 3 years old, the front looks like it is 20. I have buffed and waxed the front end cap several times only to have it look aged again within a few weeks or months. I was wondering if out of sense of good customer service, Keystone would pay to have my front end cap painted by my dealer:
McGeorge's RV 11525 Sun Shade Ln Ashland, VA 23005 Sales: 804-798-6192 Service: 804-798-6192
Please see attached pictures
Thank You.

[J&A]

I am starting the process of seeing if Keystone will pay to re-paint my front cap on our 2012 330rbk. It is just now 3 years old but the front cap is really bad....
This is the letter I wrote to Keystone... wish me luck.... :)



Comptech,

I wish you luck. Push to get the answer from someone at Keystone with authority to approve /disapprove. You have nothing to lose by asking nicely (I like your letter) and any $$$ they might offer you would be better than none.

My fading cap cost ~$1800 to prep, paint and clear coat (under warranty) last year. Your fiver's cap is bigger and will cost more (~$2400) depending on who does it. I knew it had to be corrected one way or another, else it will be a problem when selling it or trading it in. Besides, we couldn't stand the looks of it.

Let us know how what Keystone replies.

All the best,

[Comptech]

I was denied.... I am looking for any ammunition? Any thoughts On how I can says this is there problem?

Good Afternoon John,

Thank you for contacting Keystone RV, we appreciate your inquiry. Due to the unit being almost two full years outside of warranty Keystone is respectfully denying any participation. The front cap fade is due to oxidation of the cap. The caps have a substance called gel coat on them, this substance can become dull or faded as it weathers. Sun, heat and moisture play a factor in this. It is recommended that the cap be cleaned and wax with high quality wax every 3 months. Also please check out the link attached below as they have products that do help with the fading caps.


Poliglow-int.com

[sw342]

I was denied.... I am looking for any ammunition? Any thoughts On how I can says this is there problem?

Good Afternoon John,

Thank you for contacting Keystone RV, we appreciate your inquiry. Due to the unit being almost two full years outside of warranty Keystone is respectfully denying any participation. The front cap fade is due to oxidation of the cap. The caps have a substance called gel coat on them, this substance can become dull or faded as it weathers. Sun, heat and moisture play a factor in this. It is recommended that the cap be cleaned and wax with high quality wax every 3 months. Also please check out the link attached below as they have products that do help with the fading caps.


Poliglow-int.com

Probably should talk to them on the phone so at least you can keep going up the chain if you are not getting an answer you like. They recommend that Poliglow stuff to me also. I called because I had bad stickers on the cap and it looked like a little fade was starting to happen on the cap. They took notes and opened a file on it. I didn't take any action at that time because I wanted to see how many more stickers were going to fail and I wasn't 100% my cap was starting to fade as I keep it waxed well.

Fast forward a year and my big sticker is now starting to turn blood red and the cap paint is failing at the top radius. I am really leaning to just doing a wrap on the front and not have to deal with the repaint. I will make a decision after our trip next month. They were informed of the problem a year into my purchase, but doubt will have any sway in their decision. They tried to blame it on my poor upkeep which is BS. Tried to get me to do the Poliglow band aid. You have to be stern with them and let them know the word is out on them and their bad paint jobs on the front caps otherwise they will say its an isolated incident that you brought upon yourself because you didn't wax it.

[J&A]

I was denied.... I am looking for any ammunition? Any thoughts On how I can says this is there problem?

Good Afternoon John,

Thank you for contacting Keystone RV, we appreciate your inquiry. Due to the unit being almost two full years outside of warranty Keystone is respectfully denying any participation. The front cap fade is due to oxidation of the cap. The caps have a substance called gel coat on them, this substance can become dull or faded as it weathers. Sun, heat and moisture play a factor in this. It is recommended that the cap be cleaned and wax with high quality wax every 3 months. Also please check out the link attached below as they have products that do help with the fading caps.


Poliglow-int.com

Hi John,

Sorry to hear you were denied any participation. IMHO, they already know they had a supplier/manufacturing problem. If I'm not mistaken, someone in the Keystone forum wrote an update last year where Keystone paid for some of their paint job after being out of warranty. Not 100% sure. Search the threads for similar examples. If so, those types of examples might help you go back with a better case that may prompt them to participate at least to some extent in the paint job.

All the best,

[Comptech]

My last email after the denial....

Johnathon,
Thank you for the reply. I am a little confused. Are you saying that if the RV was still under warranty you would agree to have it repainted? I have owned many RVs and boats and have never seen a gel coat oxidize like this.
This issue is all over the keystonerv forums and internet web sites. There are many reports of Keystone paying to have the cap repainted. Which to me means that there is a known issue with the gel coat material Keystone has or was using during the manufacturing process.
To expect a customer to wax and shine the gel coat every 3 months is ridiculous. I can see once a year.... That was all I ever had to do on my boat. I paid a lot of money for the RV and if I do ever expect to sell it I will have to do something about the front cap.
If this is not a Keystone manufacturing issue, then why are you no longer selling RVs with the gel front caps anymore?

Bazinga....... :D:D:D:D

[Minnow]

When did Keystone stop using gel caps? Looking at a new 2014 leftover and don't need a fading issue to deal with.

[JRTJH]

When did Keystone stop using gel caps? Looking at a new 2014 leftover and don't need a fading issue to deal with.

When we were at the Goshen factory in April 2014, we toured the Cougar assembly line. At that time they were using painted caps. I specifically asked if they were still using the Gel Coat and was told that they had discontinued them and were using automotive type paint on all the caps. I don't know when they started using painted caps, but if the trailers you're looking at are Cougar models and have a manufacture date after April, 2014, you can pretty well be assured that the cap is painted.

If you've seen any "older" Cougar models, and compare one of the "newer" models, you can easily tell the difference in the painted caps and the Gel Coat caps.

ADDED: As for other brand names within the Keystone family, every brand controls its own parts for their assembly line, so there may still be some of the brands using Gel Coat caps while others have completely eliminated them. As for my experience, Cougar is the only brand I know for sure that has stopped using Gel Coat finish on their caps.

[Comptech]

Another official denial....
And just because they state something in the 'Manual" does not mean it is right.... or correct....

John,

If the unit was still under warranty there is a possibility that it would be covered, however all of our cases are reviewed on a case by case basis. Our service team makes their decision once they have all the evidence present. Also, I have heard of times where Keystone has repainted front caps so you are correct there, however, that is on a case by case basis. In regards to the waxing of your front cap if you would please go to page 72 of your owner’s manual and please read the section RV Gel Coat Finish- Care and Maintenance. It specifically states to keep the fiberglass cap looking good “ clean and apply a top quality wax twice a year or every 3 months in cases where the vehicle is in constant exposure to the elements.” If you have any other questions please feel free to contact us.


Thank you,

Johnathan Watkins
Retail Advisor

[Comptech]

So after getting no where with Keystone, I contacted my dealer and sent pictures... They are getting Keystone to paint the front cap free of charge...."bouncey:"bouncey:"bouncey:

My unit is two years out of warranty, but this is just something they should correct with out question....

[J&A]

Great news! Congratulations!

[sourdough]

Hey! Now that's a story with a happy ending....and I sure didn't see it coming. Congratulations! Guess it goes to show that perseverance does pay off.

[Phil/Shirl805]

Wow that is great news, my 2011 High Country did the same thing.

[gasa765]

Glad to hear Keystone is taking care of you. Keystone is only offering us less than 25 percent of what our dealer said it would cost to fix. Ours is a 2013.

[JRTJH]

Glad to hear Keystone is taking care of you. Keystone is only offering us less than 25 percent of what our dealer said it would cost to fix. Ours is a 2013.

What does the "less than 25%" mean in dollars? If the dealer quoted $500 then Keystone is offering you $125(a "not so good deal" ),
? Or if the dealer quoted $5000, Keystone is offering you $1250 (a "pretty good deal") ?

Unless there's a dollar amount attached to the "less than 25%" then nobody would know whether or not you're getting a good deal or a bad deal. If it's the latter quote, then you should be able to find a local shop to repair your trailer with very little or no "out of pocket" cost to you.

[sourdough]

gasa765 - get some dollar figures attached to the dealer cost and Keystone's offer as John said. There is no telling what the dealer is trying to charge for the repairs vs what it might actually get done for. Ours was painted under warranty after we had it 10 months and Keystone knows it is a real issue. My service manager told me what and how they allowed for it but they allow x hours of labor and x for materials if I recall. If the dealer you're talking to won't do it at that rate then......

[gasa765]

Our dealer said it would be about 3,000.00 not including the cost of decals. Keystone has offered 750.00. Seems like since this is a known defect Keystone should step up. It seems they're inconsistent as to who they choose to help. Just doesn't seem right and has left us with a bad taste in our mouth regarding Keystone.

[JRTJH]

Our dealer said it would be about 3,000.00 not including the cost of decals. Keystone has offered 750.00. Seems like since this is a known defect Keystone should step up. It seems they're inconsistent as to who they choose to help. Just doesn't seem right and has left us with a bad taste in our mouth regarding Keystone.

There are two "consistencies" in the equation:
1. Front caps are fading
2. Keystone is the same company for every one of the customers with a faded cap.

So, have you considered that the "inconsistency" is likely the dealer and how he presents it to Keystone. I'd have to believe that the dealer who is "pro-active" and "customer centered" is successful more times than the dealer who doesn't prepare an accurate and complete report of the defect to present to Keystone. In other words, if your dealer isn't representing your interests properly, you won't get the same results as an owner whose dealer goes to bat with all his "ducks in a row"...... Have you considered the "inconsistency" isn't Keystone at all??? They get blamed for a lot, and if they're at fault, then go for it, but if they are making decisions based on what they are provided by the dealer, if you've got fault with the decision, you can't very well blame them for doing the "consistent thing" with the information they are given,

As for the cost of $3000. That seems to be significantly higher (as much as double) than other members have reported. The average cost to repaint seems to be much closer to $1500. I would discuss the situation in much greater detail with your dealership and find out exactly what they are offering, what Keystone is paying and then, if you have "concerns," I'd urge you to contact Keystone and see what they say.

Essentially, if Keystone is saying they will pay $750 toward the repairs, from what's been posted here, that seems like they are saying they will pay "about half" the cost to fix it. On a unit that's 3 years out of warranty, that may not be a "bad deal"......

[Comptech]

Be persistent.... Contact your dealer and ask them to try again and that you know from forums like this that is a known issue and that Keystone is covering this on many other RVs and no cost...

[TheLadyFreedom]

We have a 2012 Fuzion; it has always faced north when parked, and I noticed last year that my beautiful black front cap is now grey. And, we paid to have the spray crap at the dealer. I don't know if it is worth writing to Keystone about?


When we were at the Goshen factory in April 2014, we toured the Cougar assembly line. At that time they were using painted caps. I specifically asked if they were still using the Gel Coat and was told that they had discontinued them and were using automotive type paint on all the caps. I don't know when they started using painted caps, but if the trailers you're looking at are Cougar models and have a manufacture date after April, 2014, you can pretty well be assured that the cap is painted.

If you've seen any "older" Cougar models, and compare one of the "newer" models, you can easily tell the difference in the painted caps and the Gel Coat caps.

ADDED: As for other brand names within the Keystone family, every brand controls its own parts for their assembly line, so there may still be some of the brands using Gel Coat caps while others have completely eliminated them. As for my experience, Cougar is the only brand I know for sure that has stopped using Gel Coat finish on their caps.

[JRTJH]

We have a 2012 Fuzion; it has always faced north when parked, and I noticed last year that my beautiful black front cap is now grey. And, we paid to have the spray crap at the dealer. I don't know if it is worth writing to Keystone about?

It's always "worth writing" but the question is: "Will they respond with help?"

If you paid your dealer for that "spray crap" you might want to take matters up with your dealer and insist that the "spray crap" company fix what you paid them to protect. I wouldn't wait to document with Keystone what you're facing. Email them pictures, dates, times, places and any discussions you've had with your dealer about the problem. Their response will probably be to contact your dealer, but you will have at least started the notification process.

If you haven't even discussed it with the dealer, be prepared for Keystone to "shuffle the football" to the dealer for the initial contact point. Don't be "dismayed" by that referral. If you contacted Ford about a warranty issue, the first response would be, "Referral to the dealership service department". Same with GM and Chrysler.

Cheers,

[hankpage]

We have a 2012 Fuzion; it has always faced north when parked, and I noticed last year that my beautiful black front cap is now grey. And, we paid to have the spray crap at the dealer. I don't know if it is worth writing to Keystone about?

You should have received some sort or warranty with the bill for the "spray crap" (as you put it). You might want to contact the dealer and see if they back products they are charging customers for.

[Comptech]

I think the inconsistency is Keystone and the dealer(s). I contacted Keystone personally and they denied my claim. saying that I didn't wax it enough or some crap.... Also I think the dealer has a big part to play in that they may have more pull with Keystone. If they are big enough and buy a lot of RVs, they sure may have more influence if something like this is going to be covered. I mean look at my claim, I was two years out of warranty and my dealer got it covered 100%... So go figure...:banghead:

There are two "consistencies" in the equation:
1. Front caps are fading
2. Keystone is the same company for every one of the customers with a faded cap.

So, have you considered that the "inconsistency" is likely the dealer and how he presents it to Keystone. I'd have to believe that the dealer who is "pro-active" and "customer centered" is successful more times than the dealer who doesn't prepare an accurate and complete report of the defect to present to Keystone. In other words, if your dealer isn't representing your interests properly, you won't get the same results as an owner whose dealer goes to bat with all his "ducks in a row"...... Have you considered the "inconsistency" isn't Keystone at all??? They get blamed for a lot, and if they're at fault, then go for it, but if they are making decisions based on what they are provided by the dealer, if you've got fault with the decision, you can't very well blame them for doing the "consistent thing" with the information they are given,

As for the cost of $3000. That seems to be significantly higher (as much as double) than other members have reported. The average cost to repaint seems to be much closer to $1500. I would discuss the situation in much greater detail with your dealership and find out exactly what they are offering, what Keystone is paying and then, if you have "concerns," I'd urge you to contact Keystone and see what they say.

Essentially, if Keystone is saying they will pay $750 toward the repairs, from what's been posted here, that seems like they are saying they will pay "about half" the cost to fix it. On a unit that's 3 years out of warranty, that may not be a "bad deal"......

[JRTJH]

I think the inconsistency is Keystone and the dealer(s). I contacted Keystone personally and they denied my claim. saying that I didn't wax it enough or some crap.... Also I think the dealer has a big part to play in that they may have more pull with Keystone. If they are big enough and buy a lot of RVs, they sure may have more influence if something like this is going to be covered. I mean look at my claim, I was two years out of warranty and my dealer got it covered 100%... So go figure...:banghead:

I agree with your point that the dealership's claims report is a "big part to play" with how Keystone processes the request. Any dealer that takes one "dimly exposed" photo, sends it to Keystone with a request for warranty repainting will probably not get a positive result. Certainly the result will not be the same as a request from a dealer with 8 or 10 well processed photos that clearly detail the extent of fading, documentation of what is needed, what has been done previously and a detailed estimate of the cost. The difference between these two requests is the "inconsistency" I'm talking about.....

As for what you sent to Keystone when you contacted them, who knows if it even met the minimum requirements that a dealer must provide? So there's really no way to measure the "consistency" of your report to the reports of other owners and how they "measure up" to the "consistency" of the dealership requests.

We've all heard (and many of us have said) that any "action" can only be as good as the information upon which the "action" was taken. In other words, if Keystone was provided all the information necessary in one request and "half the information" in another request, which do you think would be "favorably processed" ? You can't blame (well you can, but not honestly) Keystone for not doing what they don't know about or what the dealer ineffectively reports.

As I said in my initial post, Keystone has issues, but you can't blame them for the haphazard ways that dealerships inappropriately report requests for warranty work.

As an example: One report states, "Countertop scratched, request replacement." and a second report that states, " Countertop has multiple scratches about 1" long and 1/8" deep adjacent to the stove. These appear to have been caused by the stove which not properly secured during assembly. It appears the stovetop shifted during transport and damaged the countertop. See attached photos of scratches and missing attachment screws"

Which one do you really think Keystone will favorably process?

I honestly don't believe that Keystone has a meeting every morning and states, "Approve claims today" and at other meetings states, "Disapprove all claims today". Companies just don't work that way. They have a "consistent" and "reliable" "logic table" which takes most of the subjectivity out of the process. It more or less comes down to whether or not the dealer "filled all the squares" to get approval or if the dealer sent in a "sloppy, incomplete request"... That inconsistency is the first step in "bad warranty disapprovals".

[Comptech]

I sent Keystone the same three pictures I sent to the dealer. One of the Vin number, one of the mfg decal and one of the cap.

Here is the email sent Keystone, and their reply... note the wax every three months nonsense...

Hi,
I have owned my Cougar 330 RBK for just three years now and and have good luck with the unit and my wife and I really enjoy the Cougar line. I am however disappointed at the front end cap fade, which I know Keystone is aware of. I know technically the unit is not under warranty, but for a unit that is only 3 years old, the front looks like it is 20. I have buffed and waxed the front end cap several times only to have it look aged again within a few weeks or months. I was wondering if out of sense of good customer service, Keystone would pay to have my front end cap painted by my dealer:
McGeorge's RV 11525 Sun Shade Ln Ashland, VA 23005 Sales: 804-798-6192 Service: 804-798-6192
Please see attached pictures
Thank You.


Good Afternoon John,

Thank you for contacting Keystone RV, we appreciate your inquiry. Due to the unit being almost two full years outside of warranty Keystone is respectfully denying any participation. The front cap fade is due to oxidation of the cap. The caps have a substance called gel coat on them, this substance can become dull or faded as it weathers. Sun, heat and moisture play a factor in this. It is recommended that the cap be cleaned and wax with high quality wax every 3 months. Also please check out the link attached below as they have products that do help with the fading caps.


Poliglow-int.com

[JRTJH]

If Keystone sent checks to every person who sent pictures and complained of problems with their RV, they would be out of business within a year. I am surprised you weren't referred to your dealer for inspection, but stating that you were out of warranty by 2 years ("I have owned my Cougar 330 RBK for just three years now"), the responder may not have considered a referral to the dealer an option. Without knowing what he was thinking, it would be difficult to guess why he did what he did.

At any rate, even if you had been in warranty, I'm sure you wouldn't have received a check to go get it painted or even a warranty approval, but you'd have been referred to the dealer for his evaluation and to submit documentation for a warranty claim.

It's great that your dealership got your end cap painted, and I still maintain that it's more "how" the dealership reports the problem than it is "whether or not Keystone is having a good or a bad day" as to what gets approved or denied.

[CampJKL]

Stay away from the recommended polyglow product UNLESS you have an ideal environment, proper equipment and time to apply it. Due diligence is a must with this product. As it's said by many things we consumers buy..."Your results may vary".

While I'm still contemplating a spray on application (bedliner), and after removing the aforementioned product, I maintain it every 4 months with Meguiars 49 (Which is phenomenal) and 45 56. But it's a challenge and can't see most folks wanting to do it.

Safe travels

[Comptech]

Going to pick up the 5er tomorrow from the dealer after they painted the front cap. Can't wait to see it... I will take some pictures and post them..."bouncey:"bouncey:

[homer3]

Most everyone knows that Keystone has had a problem with their Cougar line of RV products when it comes to front cap fade especially in the years of 2011 thru 2013 and some 2014. We all know as well they change their application process into the 2015 products. As customers I feel we have the right to air out complaints. Do you not think Keystone gets a return on the pre-manufactured products from RV Vendors they purchase to install in the Cougar line of Rv's, come on. Its their product and they should stand behind it just as well as a any other service oriented provider should. If they don't and they go out of business, well shame on them, is that my fault for selling faulting products. This is exactly why I go to different restaurants, or stores, ETC, for bad service, products, failure to stand by what they sale. Dont BS the the customer>>>>>>

[JRTJH]

Homer3,

The report by Comptech immediately above your rant indicates that he is satisfied with the solution from Keystone and that he is excited to be getting his newly painted fifth wheel back from the dealer. And to make it even nicer, his trailer is over 2 years out of warranty!!! It sure sounds like Keystone stepped up to the plate and is doing the right thing. Shouldn't you be saying how nice it is that they are standing behind their product and doing what's right? Seems you're "fussing up the wrong tree" on this thread. It has a positive solution to the problem, not a negative one !!!! http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/rain/rainy-cloud-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

Heck, congratulate Comptech on his positive outcome, don't rain on his newly painted cap !!!http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/yes/huge-thumbs-up-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

[homer3]

JRTJH, And how many have they not. Over a 150 hits on this one subject. I know for one they have not taken care of my situation and many others as well.

[Comptech]

When I pick up the 5er, I am going to ask them point blank.... How did you get Keystone to cover the repairs...? I would like to hear it from them...

JRTJH, no problem. I think I was lucky getting it covered... I will have more information tomorrow...(tx)

[JRTJH]

Homer3

If you read through the 150 hits in this thread, you will see that all of the successful outcomes (except one) have been initiated by the dealership. You could encourage your dealer to do the same? The "crux of the matter" seems to be if your dealership goes to bat for you, Keystone will help, but, if your dealership sits on their "proverbial thumb" you lose. It's not Keystone in the majority of the cases, it's how the dealer handles it. Don't point fingers at the one footing the bill, point the finger at your dealer who is the first step in any resolution. Maybe a nice talk with your service manager? If you look at comptech's trailer stats, his is a year older than yours 2012 vs 2013. There's got to be more than just "that bad old Keystone doesn't care" involved in getting your end cap repainted.

Have you considered looking at those posts that indicate Keystone helped, trying to find the "common thread" in those posts, possibly contact those posters and discuss what they did (or what their dealer did) that got the approval from Keystone to repaint their endcap? There's a lot of good information available that can help you, but you have to look for it and use it, not just post negative feelings about Keystone on an anonymous website where nobody knows you and honestly, Keystone doesn't even look or care what you post? Just griping on the internet and not using the information available to help yourself is more "chasing your tail" than it is "moving forward" toward a solution.

Good luck in doing your research to find out what worked for those who have had their trailer painted. It's certainly not "badmouthing Keystone on a forum" that gets success.

[sw342]

I know for one they have not taken care of my situation and many others as well.

X2...They are trying very hard to not take care of mine. Not a happy camper.

[Comptech]

Got the 5er back and it looks really good. The service guy said he had never heard of a 2 year out of warranty 5th wheel getting a free paint job. I guess I got lucky. I asked him why did he think the covered it and he said "well we buy a lot of rvs from Keystone and we have a good warranty claim department"

[b.d.keathley]

Wheres your black stripes that were on the front? And are those new stickers or did they repaint around them? Did you get your windows tinted or did they com elike that?

[Steve S]

Got the 5er back and it looks really good. The service guy said he had never heard of a 2 year out of warranty 5th wheel getting a free paint job. I guess I got lucky. I asked him why did he think the covered it and he said "well we buy a lot of rvs from Keystone and we have a good warranty claim department"

It looks like new:) I'm happy to hear that it all worked out for you now get some camping done:):)

[Comptech]

Yea no black stripes... I guess they could not get those. The other decals are new... and I am not sure what you mean about the windows?
I still think it looks fine... way better than it did, even if it is missing a decal or two... The main Cougar one looks great...

[b.d.keathley]

Your windows look tinted. We were wanting to get ours tinted cuz they didnt come that way and its too bright in the morning. Just curious.

[Comptech]

What picture are you looking at...? I guess they might be a little... We usually keep the shades closed. so they may just be looking dark...

[b.d.keathley]

Gottcha(tx)

[havasuacougar]

Well I have read all the posts and I can say I probably wont buy another Keystone product again.

Our High country Cougar we purchaed in April 2013 it has been in complete storage in a storage unit completely covered no sun allowed in all its life (for 2 years) its has been out only for camping probably 10 days we only took it out twice the first year and once last year I have had some health issues so we did not use it!

Other than that it only has been out about 5 days in the sun for the dealer to fix some problems with it, they had it sitting in the sun more than I did !
I am real picky about my campers I wash and wax them on a regular basis the last Camper we had a 2004 High Country Cougar we had until 2013 never had a fading issue. When we purchased this one I was asked the sales rep if it would fade because it was grey in color he said "oh no they put the same gel coat on them as the fancy expensive motor homes do"

Well I have put in a call to Keystone and so far the customer service rep stated "well you know you have had it 2 years so far" !

Not sure how long Keystone thinks these RV's should last but I cannot believe she said that to me. When you pay $35,000.00 for a RV it should not fade we have never had this out just a few weeks. She told me to get a estimate well in our area I found a couple of places that would paint it and clear coat it for around $750.00. Not sure if they will cover it she would not say I was told to email it in see what happens. I think we all should write in to the BBB and attorney General, their should be some recall on this. I cannot believe a RV Front end cap can fade only seeing the sun for a few weeks ! Talk about POOR Work and Keystone knows it !

[havasuacougar]

Here is a pic of my High Country Cougar front end cap

[homer3]

Its only going to get worse

[Keoni37]

Just noticed on our two year old 2013 (purchased May 2013) that my cap has some severe fading. Talked with Keystone customer service and got the "canned" response about it being a maintenance issue. I pointed out the fact that Keystone was aware of the problem and this was not a maintenance issue with these years end caps. So now will take the unit to the dealer (Tacoma RV) and see if they will go to bat for me. Also had my first issue with the touch panel, worked fine for the first two years, now first trip out this year and had 2nd and third rows of touch switches go out on me. Had to turn off main breaker and switch off battery, turn both back on and panel worked after that but happened twice on our first trip this year. Are there progressive failures on the panel once this problem begins to show?

[Comptech]

Looks too familiar.... I think Keystone is just going to pay for the paint jobs they have to do.. rather than have a total recall...

[Keoni37]

I wonder if there is any basis for a class action lawsuit to get this issue and the touch panel issue corrected by Keystone. The threat of a class action lawsuit got Nikon to correct the issues with their D600 cameras.

[concours]

Our Dealer did re finish our front cap and replace the decals but now I understand that Keystone will not assist the Dealer with the costs. Yes I would and probably will re purchase from the dealer but it will never be a Keystone product.

[Dave W]

I'm a late comer to this thread. The dealer wouldn't deliver our 2014 until he had it painted as it was already starting to fade after much of the summer of 2014 on his or Keystone's delivery lot. The salesman said ours was the third so far with a couple more on his lot to be done. I spent a couple hours with the painter prior to it being done more to see what he was using for paint - DuPont Chromabase (now Axalta) along with the appropriate clear coat. I let it set for the winter without polishing and just did it Sunday. Absolutely slick job which hopefully will stay that way. I had the dealer just put the Montana name decal on it but supply the 'mountain scene' which I don't care for to store for that inevitable day it goes down the road hooked to someone elses truck.

This is a photo of it about 2 months after the paint. A bit dirty but still looks nice. I do have the DuPont paint spec that I can post (assuming I can find it) if anyone is a DIY'er or is having a shop try to match the original:

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_170544_0_d588b60f235f2d661c277398e501a1b0.jpg (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/Irelandschild/media/Atlantic%20Canada%202014%20Trip/DSC_0024_zpsb55a76cc.jpg.html)

[Beerdude41867]

This is what it looked like last week. Faded, and cracked graphics. My next post shows how it looks now. Sorry I can't manage my file size.

[Beerdude41867]

Changed to white since I live in so.cal heat. Painted on graphics, clear coat over all. No money out of pocket! Keystone paid a portion and sent me new vinyl graphics, which I'll keep maybe for later, and an exterior warranty paid the balance. Only 20013 Fuzion in the country that looks like this. Pretty cool! It was work getting a payout, but I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[homer3]

So for all of you who got your caps repainted congratulations. Starting round two with mine. After contacting the Mfg, Keystone, I was told to go talk to the dealer and get an estimate as well as a local auto body shop (huh). Oh well after almost a month of constant emails and phones calls to dealership, I finally get an estimate. Oh by the way since I had purchased the exterior MAXGARD Protection at time of purchase, I'm now being told I have to file a claim with them. (Sounds like the run around). so contacted MAXGARD, they are sending me claims forms with instructions. does anyone want to lay odds on how this is going to turn out. I know there are a few individuals on this blog that feel Keystone absolutely stands behind there product. Well I'm, starting to wonder. Having to file a claim with three different companies does not sound so good to me, and top of this if Keystone stands behind their products, then why am I having to do all the work. Somebody please give me an answer that makes since, because I for one do not understand........

[Comptech]

homer3,
From what everyone has posted in this thread and others, is that it is a crap shoot..... Everyone has a different story as to how, why if Keystone repaints the caps...

[Brantlaker]

Having read all of the stories both good and bad about cap fade I thought that I would tell mine so hear goes. My cap faded after 18 months I called Keystone, got estimates from 3 different body shops including a lowball from my Dealership that I used to work for. They said that Keystone dealer had to supply them so my Dealer did and they still denied them. I told the DW that I would have it fixed but never got around to do it. Fast forward to last March and while having the RV cleaned and waxed in Florida the guy cleaning it said that all it needed was to be buffed out with 3M Marine Cleaner Wax. Well it worked. It looks like new. Just finished putting a coat of 3M Marine Wax as a second coat.and it looks Great! :hpyclp:

[Comptech]

Brantlaker,
I am happy that your cap looks good again. The issue is that the waxing and buffing won't last very long, and according to the email I received from Keystone, is that they expect you to do the same wax and buff job every three months... which is ridiculous... The main issue with the front cap fade is the poor quality gel coat Keystone used in the manufacturing process.

[homer3]

Brantlaker - Glad you like your wax job, problem is it won't last. I have both hand waxed and used electric buffer including the 303 Marine Wax. Yeah looks great when done. Give it a few weeks, your fade will be back. Hate to be the bearer of bad news.

[sw342]

A local RV shop/repair facility where I get my propane said they have buffed out the faded caps and that can buy you a season before it starts fading again. I ran into a guy a couple slots down from mine at my storage yard with a 2012 Montana. Been covered the whole time except when being used and at the dealer for a month getting some warranty work done. Starting to fade, He was unaware it was an issue, but he and his wife were not happy to see the fading knowing the way he has cared for it and being covered when not in use.

I just got the standard email response from keystone that the cap fading is "naturally occurring" and that is that. I will be calling them later today to have a real conversation and see where they really stand. I sure hope Nothwood follows through on the two prototype, Desert Fox 5th wheel toyhaulers. I will drop this Fuzion in a heartbeat and get back into a Northwoods product.

I was telling the couple with the Montana at my storage facility that I just might get a wrap for the front of mine. Kidding them that it will a big middle finger with the words "Keystone RV" underneath and under that "Ask Me Why". During my summer travels over 7 states I would love to have the opportunity to educate potential buyers of Keystone products and cost them a few sales.

[J&C-Reno]

Had the same problem with my 2013 Keystone Laredo 5th wheel. It faded during the 1st year, so I contacted Keystone after returning from traveling (warranty expired by about 2 months). At first they talked about repainting, with me getting estimates, then said no to that and offered me $750 which I accepted. Tried waxing but it soon faded again. I had a vinyl wrap done for $850. They removed the old decals, covered the front in white vinyl then added some stripes, photo and the name Nevada that I requested. From my research, vinyl seems to last 5 to 7 years easily. So, I am hoping this is a great solution. Grafix Unlimited in Sparks, NV did the design and work. Very pleased with result. I inserted an image.
Jack.... (in Reno Nevada)

[jimbari]

Very cool idea with the "wrap".
That looks awesome, gave me some ideas, should I have some extra cash laying around! Enjoy.

[allenclme]

That wrap looks beautiful. Can they match the original paint color? Ours is that Grey they put on the High Country that is starting to fade, but it looked good for three years.

[JimHam]

After researching gel coat restoration and finding a procedure written by a guy with 40 years experience in the boating industry I followed his instructions as closely as I could. You have to remove all of the oxidation or you are wasting your time polishing and waxing. It just comes right back. If badly oxidized you are looking at sanding off the oxidized layer then buffing with 3M rubbing compound then polishing with Starbright polish then 3M marine wax. He recommended using the least aggressive method you can and still remove the oxidation. I chose to not sand because I was nervous about damaging the gel coat or even removing it completely. So I bought a WEN buffer off Amazon, some extra bonnets, 3M rubbing compound, Starbright polish, 3M Marine wax and went to work. After about 12 hours of buffing, polishing and waxing for the front end of my Cougar Travel trailer it looked like new. I parked it the best I could in the shade and facing east but it still gets sun. After two months I got up on a stepladder to clean the front and the finish is still shiny but I can see fading starting. Starbright recommends another coat after about a month which I have not had time to do but will be putting another coat on this week. Can't afford to repaint right now so I guess I will be polishing and buffing till I wear through the fiberglass. I bought it used and I doubt Keystone would help me with painting on a 2014 Cougar purchased secondhand and out of warranty.

[kfxgreenie]

I do the same, wax it once a month during camping season even though it is parked inside and wipe it down with detail spray after every use. While waxing I can still see oxidation that has happened, even though it is only outside roughly 5-6 days a month 6-7 months a year. I bought my 2012 used in 2015 as well and never took it up with keystone, as i knew what my answer would be. I'm not paying to paint so I will suck it up and wax it to keep er looking good.