Wrong place, but need quick electrical assist

[Outbackmel]

Outback Mel is out here in AZ and plugged into RV park 50amp. All has been well UNTIL this evening when power went down. Tripped all switches and re booted 50 amp. After 3 minutes, went dead again.

Used "step down" plug on power cord to RV park power box taking available amps down to 30. Have limited power for the past hour. We need it for the furnace fan tonight, cold nights here. The High Point microwave (which we do not need to use tonight) does not even light up?? Looking for a "reset" of some sort. Manual is zero help.

Park will check 50 amp service tomorrow, so until we can figure out the issue, we are in conservative use mode.

I am thinking it is within our rv, not their box so I am trying to be proactive. Is there like a fuse someplace other than those in the breaker panel box that may have blown and is restricting electrical flow into the RV? I have no clue.

All advice appreciated....

[Johnnyfry]

Mel,

The 50 amp service is a 230/120 volt service ( like your house) vs a 120 volt service on the 30 amp. Possibly there is a lifted/loose neutral problem on the 50 amp side. This can raise havoc with the voltages inside the RV and possibly damage appliances in the rig. It could be a problem inside the pedestal or further down the line. Be sure that a competent electrician checks it out before reconnecting to the 50 amp plug.

John

[Outbackmel]

So, I should be fine using the 30amp tonight for light use; way under 30 amp draw, correct?

The RV park has a technical group. They had just left for the night when we had this happen....Murphy's Law...you know!!

It's 70 here days and low 40's at night...thus my desire to run the heater. I shut the hot water heater off and will use propane if needed.

[f6bits]

Did the microwave light up during those three minutes after you rebooted the 50 amp?

As I recall, that step down adaptor only feeds half of your 50 amp panel. I could be wrong. Is there anything else that’s not getting power?

[Outbackmel]

Did the microwave light up during those three minutes after you rebooted the 50 amp?

As I recall, that step down adaptor only feeds half of your 50 amp panel. I could be wrong. Is there anything else that’s not getting power?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Not sure, but I do not believe so. BUT, I was bz switching back to 30amp and could very well have been on that when I figured it was not going to come on.
Everything else, including all outlets, work. I was focusing on the heat since the sun was dropping quickly :cool:

[Ron]

Mel: I had a converter go out on a brand new trailer after I got it home and it never tripped the breaker, just a thought I'm no electrician but you might want to try to shut off the breaker to the converter in case it is grounded out. Converters will try to reset every 2-3 minutes and that might be causing you the probelm, just my 2 cents worth. We are here in Yuma. yes its chilly at night......Happy Campin...........Ron

[Outbackmel]

How would one go about finding this "converter", like is it usually in a compartment or someplace? and would it be making some sort of noise when trying to reset? or "grounded" what's that mean? Not dangerous I hope??

I really do not want to be out there tonight rumagging around when I have no clue what in H*** I would be looking for, listening to/for, disconnecting?? ng ... as long as we are warm and in no danger, tomorrow will bring lots of options, check the box, find the converter, check whatever, maybe a fuse? Worst case sceneario, off to Camping World....UGH...hate that thought.

The good news: Mayo Clinic is right up the road. ;)

Hay, have have humor through this.

[Ron]

Mel: The converter power supply is on a breaker in your panel, just shut that breaker off and see if that helps. My converter never made a noise when not working properly or even if is working properly, under load sometimes the cooling fan will come on when it gets warm. If that doesn't help yes probably better off to wait till to get someone to look at it. Ron

[chain_dogg]

if you have a battery charger, you can plug that into your neighbors outside plug, hook it up to your battery,s, that will give you lights and heater. And leave all the breakers off till you can get a tech to look at it

[Outbackmel]

Thanks. Electrician was here and the problem is NOT at the power box. So, tonight we will be on 30amp and be learning something new tomorrow relative to converter boxes and electrical systems. At least we have TV and heat :)

Since these RV's have no schematic with them, at least mine does not, I need to find this convertor box and see if there is some sort of fuse in there that is bad. I believe the issue is there as the panel where the breakers and 15amp fuses are seems to be fine. When the power dumped down when plugged into 50amp, nothing transpired inside on the breaker panel. HOWEVER, just as I would do at home, I tripped and reset all switches and reset the GFI in the bathroom. Everything works on 30 amp and NOTHING works when on 50 amp so, deduction leads me to that convertor.

If you, or anyone reading this has an idea where this may be located, would appreciate the tip.

Thanks again for all of the fast input and guidance. Have a good evening.;)

[f6bits]

My converter is the lower half of my breaker panel box. The face of the breaker box unscrews and comes off and then you see the converter.

The converter is the “transformer” that reduces shore power to 12V for your 12V devices and battery charging. As another poster mentioned, it’s on its own breaker. Perhaps it’s time to shut off *all* breakers, then turn them on one at a time with 5 minutes between each one if the trip is time delayed.

[hankpage]

If your converter is not working, your furnace may not last the night. As mentioned above it works on 12v dc and will drain the battery very quickly. Do you have two A/Cs? Does one have a heat pump or heater strip? Many times the bedroom A/C is the only major draw on the second leg of the 50amp service. There is a time delay on a heat pump starting and that could be your culprit. Check thermostat to see if it is set for furnace only. JM2¢, Hank

[Outbackmel]

Did you mean that when plugged in to 30 amp, the draw for running the furnace is coming "only" from the battery if the converter is not working? I am confused.

Everything else, except microwave is working fine.

I hope the heater fan does not quit. Would be darned cold at 4am!!

I have a lot to grasp tomorrow regarding this electrical system. One thing I am not, a good electrical person. Can screw in a bulb with help.

Ohhhh well .... hopefully no bad morning stories. I do have a portable electric heater so worse case, everything off, it draws 10 - 15 amps and runs off electric, so we can "huddle". Ohhh, hope NOT!

[mikell]

30 amps should get you through with no problems I lived quite well on 30 amps for a couple of years. The adapter plug should power both sides of your panel so everything SHOULD be hot. Even if the converter wen out the microwave should work?? just not lights or fan on the furnace.

[SAABDOCTOR]

HI IT IS MORNING AS I READ ALL OF THIS SO I HOPE YOU GOT THROUGH THE NIGHT OK! EVERYTHING WORKS BUT THE MICROWAVE YES?. UN PLUG THE MICRO VAVE AND PLUG A LAMP INTO THE OUTLET DO WE HAVE POWER IF YES THE MICRO IS DEAD! IF NOT GO BACK TO THE BREAKER BOX. ANY THING TRIPPED? IF YES TURN IT ON THEN TURN ON THE LAMP STAYS ON GOOD SHOOT THE MICROWAVE. 30 AMPS SHOULD HAVE BEEN OK I HAVE RUN ON 30 AMPS JUST NO A/C AND MICRO OR THE FANCY FIREPLACE AND A MICRO. SO IF THE BREAKER IS GOOD AND THERE IS NO POWER TO THE PLUG YOU MIGHT WANT THE ELECTRICAN TO LOOK AT YOUR UNIT. ALSO CHECK THE GROUND FAULT PLUGS ANY TRIPPED? IN MY CAMPER THER IS A GROUND FAULT OUTLET NEAR MY FRONT DOOR AND AALL THE KITCHEN PLUGS COME FROM IT. SO IF IT TRIPS THE KITCHEN LINE INCLUDING THE MICRO GOES OUT.ELECTRONICS DO WIERD STUFF BUT USUALY IF THE CONVERTER DIES IT IS DONEAND WILL JUST KEEP RESETTING ITSELF TILL YOU TURN IT OFF. JUST GO SLOW WRITE DOWN WHATT YOU DID SO YOU DON'T DO IT 3 OR 4 TIMES AND GET THE SAME RESULTS YEP IVE DONE IT! WHEN LOOKING FOR ELECTRICAL ISSUES START AT THE SUPPLY (FUSE BOX) THEN GO TO THE LAST LOAD ON THE CIRCUT. IF THERE IS NO POWER AT THEN END GO TO THE MIDDEL OF THE CIRCUT IF NOW POWER GO TO THE HALFWAY POINT. TILL YOU HAVE POWER THE YOU KNOWFROM THERE TO THE SOURE IS GOOD. BUT A SCHMATIC WOULD BE NICE... BUT BE LOGICAL HOW WOULDYOU STRING THE WIRES FROM POINT A TO B ETC. GOOD LUCK WITH THIS KEEP US POSTED AND AS WITH ANYTING HIGH VOLTAGE THROWING IN THE TOWEL AND NOT GETTING ELECTRICUTED IS ALWAYS THE HONARABLE YHING TO DO BARNEY:wave:

[Outbackmel]

Well, after spending the day chasing all over Mesa, AZ...tomorrow will look brighter.
Still no "fix" however, unit ran fine all night on 30amp. I think I may have a "cord" issue. early this morning, I found my cord pulled down 1 1/2 inches where it enters the box plug in. After conversation with CW Service Rep, they also believe that one elec leg inside the cord may be pulled and not making the right connection for 50amp. They also said that it is likey that the microwave is "likely" on that leg as well. I tried to find out where the micro was plugged in but no outlet could be found.

Tomorrow I will replace the cord head and start from there. If nothing, I will call an electrician familiar with RV's to trace where the power is failing from the 50 amp box all the way.

The "battery" was in excellent shape all night. CW does not think it's the converter.

Unfortunately they are backed up 2 1/2 weeks for any service appointments. So, I will have to go locally. The RV park as a few independents they have recommended.

Thanks again for the FAST. possible correction, comments.

[geo]

Outbackmel -

At first it didn't occur to me, but it sounds like you might have the same problem experienced by Larryl and me. Except Larryl took some damage. See the recent post in "Repairs" and be careful! You don't want to fry the microwave and other things!

Ron

[Oscar]

HOWEVER, just as I would do at home, I tripped and reset all switches and reset the GFI in the bathroom. Everything works on 30 amp and NOTHING works when on 50 amp so, deduction leads me to that convertor.

If you, or anyone reading this has an idea where this may be located, would appreciate the tip.

Thanks again for all of the fast input and guidance. Have a good evening.;)

Your deduction may be wrong. I believe the converter will be on line with 30A as well. In my camper it is part of the CB panel....all one unit. I think your problem lies elsewhere.

As you don't appear up on the subject I highly recommend you get a knowledgeable person with a multi meter out there.

[LarryL]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
read this about the power cord
I just got back from 9 days camping at Pismo Beach got there on super bowl Sunday about 3:30pm, getting RV set up put slides out hooked water and tv then plugged in the 50amp electrical went inside turned the tv on, game just getting started.
We have a small wine cooler I plugged it in gfi breaker popped in bathroom
unplugged cooler, tv went off reset breaker turned tv back on plugged cooler into another receptacle flash from inside cooler breaker popped again unplugged cooler ok something is wrong with cooler, reset breaker I then put the breaker on for electric water heater when I did that, I heard a sizzle sound from the basement turned that breaker off , opened the door where my sears 19.2 battery charger was plugged in charging a battery, charger and battery were melted, unplugged 50 amp from campground listed to
game on the radio.
Monday morning got campground to check shore power it was ok they plugged it back in checked outlets in side trailer no neutral, we unplugged shore power I called a rv service that comes out to the campground could not get there until Tuesday morning so we had no power for one more day .
I wanted to make sure I plugged the cable into the trailer the right way so I unplugged it from the trailer and started to plug it back in when the cable fell out of the plug,
with the neutral coming loose in the plug I had 240 volts going through my trailer it took out the microwave oven the electric side of the refrigerator the wine cooler.
I am lucky that was all, I wanted to buy a surge protector did not know which to buy the one you put on the shore power or the one you put in the trailer I think the one you put in the trailer is the one I will buy the one you put on the shore powerwould not have stopped this problem check your cable at the plug into the rv end.

[geo]

LarryL -

I just got (from Dyer's yesterday) a Surge Guard 40250 surge protector, automatic transfer switch combo to replace my recalled Iota ATS. Hope to install it this weekend. When I do, I'll post in Mods.

Ron

[CarKath]

Looks like I have some work to do in next day or so. I was reading over this thread, and BOOM, the lights go out. Ironic or what. Trailer end of 50amp cord has one prong that got warm. New end in the cards and a few other things like surge protector. I'll keep you all posted with my findings.

[Outbackmel]

Thanks to everyone. As previously stated, I had an issue with the campground power box pedestal at the 50amp side and it was re-wired after the electrician found the problem. (a broken wire) I had another qualified RV Tech check my cables and he found nothing wrong with them. That's the first thing he inspected.

This has "sparked" excellent dialogue on items we all need to be constantly aware of. I spoke to a friend who had a surge in his MH and the campground told him to kiss off. He cooked a Micro and 2 TV's. His insurance paid for his after the deductible.

I am looking into a surge protector for the future.

Eagle View RV Resort, Ft. McDowell, Arizona stepped right up and took excellent care of us. I ordered the same micro and it will be here next week. I looked at others, however, we liked the one we had and have no particular need for one with a convection oven. The only thing we use in the RV kitchen is our mobile phones. Purpose: Make Reservations !!

[f6bits]

The portable SurgeGuard (http://www.trci.net/products/surge-guard) is one of the first things I bought for my trailer. I think it was close to $250. The better approach is to get an inline system so it’s closer to your electrical box just in case the problem is with the power cord.

[Bob Landry]

This is a good thread and makes a good argument for a couple of things. First, carry a spare shore power cord. They can go bad with constant plugging anf unplugging, especially if you are are not diligent about turning off the breaker at the pesestal when you do it. Wires can come loose at the connector and contacts arc and corrode, givingyou unreliable connections. This is not a big financial issue for the 30A guys compared to the 50 ampers, but you have to weigh that against the likelyhood of being without power(AND air conditioning) in July or August.

The second is the installation of an EMS like Progressive Industries that monitors and protects you against not only voltage spikes, but everything else that can happen to a shore power system. Again, cheap insurance compared to replacing everything in your trailer. And, I'm not talking about the Surge Guards that plug into the pedestals. Not only do they offer limited protection, they are subject to theft and for a little bit more $$$, you can have it all. Get a hard-wired unit. They are easy to install.
I went one step further. I installed mine using male/female interlocking plugs. They were $30 each at Home Depot, but in the event I think my EMS went south, I can remove it, reconnect the plugs, and I'm back on-line.
The other thing is to frequently check your cord and trailer inlet for discoloration caused by heat(caused by bad connections). The Camco cords are hard to check because they are black, but the yellow Marinco cords are easy to check. If you are set up with a detachable power cord be sure to check the inlet on the trailer. Replace anything that is discolored.

[geo]

Looks like I have some work to do in next day or so. I was reading over this thread, and BOOM, the lights go out. Ironic or what. Trailer end of 50amp cord has one prong that got warm. New end in the cards and a few other things like surge protector. I'll keep you all posted with my findings.

Carl - It may be that you have the same problem I had with the shore power cable, maybe? However, I would also encourage you to pull the storage basement wall behind the WaterWorks just to check on the Iota Transfer Switch. Do Not open the Transfer Switch, just look at the cables going in and out of it for damage/melt. (Well, if you are qualified and know what you are doing . . . you could open it. Disconnect all power!) If you contact Keystone, they will probably clear you to get the Iota replaced.

Bob Landry and Sdayman bring up a great point! And rather than having Keystone replace the Iota with the ESCO, I chose to get a TRC Surge Guard Automatic Transfer Switch. This is a hardwired device that is internal to the RV. And, not only will it protect from nasties from the shore power, but also from the generator! I realize from my shore power cable connector problem, I could have an open neutral, etc., within the connector . . . and all sorts of problems! It will be in the Mods section once installed.

Ron

[CarKath]

Hi Ron

I don't have the transfer switch and not generator ready. So I am ok that way.

It is either something in shore power cord or it was power bump that knocked me out for a short time. Thankfully no damage.

It is odd if the cord is failing. I had it apart about a month ago inspecting. Trailer side as well I pulled out and inspected. I did this after reading your thread about this Ron.

I am not sure when I will get it fixed. Hopefully before major trouble. I am working my way home from the south now and just trying to stay warm now.

Thanks for the help

Carl

[LarryL]

Hi Bob Landry I am going to install the EMS-HC 50C I will
be putting it in the cabinet between the chairs where power comes in.
I read a thread here where if you mount it on the floor it will make
noise do you have yours mounted on the floor and is there any noise?
Also I like the idea of the male/female interlocking plugs so thats
male/female on each side of the surge protector and did you need
more wire to do this looks like I have about 18in in my cabinet.
sure would like some pic if you have them.

[Bob Landry]

Hi Bob Landry I am going to install the EMS-HC 50C I will
be putting it in the cabinet between the chairs where power comes in.
I read a thread here where if you mount it on the floor it will make
noise do you have yours mounted on the floor and is there any noise?
Also I like the idea of the male/female interlocking plugs so thats
male/female on each side of the surge protector and did you need
more wire to do this looks like I have about 18in in my cabinet.
sure would like some pic if you have them.

Larry, you shouldn't hear anything. I don't hear so much as a hum from mine. As far as extra wire, I would get a couple of feet or so, just so you have room to bend it and lay it without stressing the connections at the plug. Be sure it's #6 wire since it's 50A. Also, be prepared to shell out a few $$$. The plugs for mine were $30 each at Home Depot and they are 30A, 50A plugs are going to be considerably higher. I don't think it's really necessary to make it removable, but that's up to you and if you think the EMS may suffer a failure and need to be sent in for repairs. They are pretty reliable and unless I'm mistaken, it come with a remote that has a switch that will disable the EMS and give you a straight-thru. I just thought it was a good idea when I read about it and I like doing electrical projects.

[LarryL]

Thanks Bob going over to home depot in a few to check the price
also will check the EMS if it has a remote then i won't get the plugs
thanks again