3/4 tons number one concern is pin weight

[jwv]

I have found a th with a dry weight of 9500 lbs and a hitch weight of 2400 lb
I also found a th with a dry weight of 11,700 and a hitch weight of 2100 lbs.

I am better off with the heavier trailer cuz it has a lighter hitch weight ?
the extra weight could give my 3/4 ton the tail wagging the dog effect depending on heavy i load it I suppose.

[SteveC7010]

I have found a th with a dry weight of 9500 lbs and a hitch weight of 2400 lb
I also found a th with a dry weight of 11,700 and a hitch weight of 2100 lbs.

I am better off with the heavier trailer cuz it has a lighter hitch weight ?
the extra weight could give my 3/4 ton the tail wagging the dog effect depending on heavy i load it I suppose.

No, the heavier pin weight will not cause sway. But it will probably put you at the truck's max payload before you add in driver, passenger(s), and gear.

What is the max payload of your truck and the max trailer size for your truck?

[jwv]

payload is 2k. 15,500 is most i can pull.
i understand with hitch and passengers with almost any 5th wheel th ill be
around 3k on the pin and will need airbags.

[Jim W]

I have found a th with a dry weight of 9500 lbs and a hitch weight of 2400 lb
I also found a th with a dry weight of 11,700 and a hitch weight of 2100 lbs.

I am better off with the heavier trailer cuz it has a lighter hitch weight ?
the extra weight could give my 3/4 ton the tail wagging the dog effect depending on heavy i load it I suppose.

All of us on this forum could answer your questions better, if you filled out the signature portion in the user CP. Please provide make, model and build year of the tow vehicle. In this way we can provide exact information to you and what to look for in buying a 5er.
Another place to look for TV information, is this link on vehicles and what they can tow by "TrailerLife". The guide provides information by vehicle year and several model years are listed. Here is a link. http://www.trailerlife.com/Towing-Guides/
Jim W.

[SteveC7010]

payload is 2k. 15,500 is most i can pull.
i understand with hitch and passengers with almost any 5th wheel th ill be
around 3k on the pin and will need airbags.

There are a large number of fivers on the market from a number of different manufacturers (including Keystone) that have pin weights well under 2,000 pounds.

We're having a lively discussion on airbags in another thread, but the short answer for fifth wheelers is that airbags will certainly level out your tow vehicle, but they will not and can not increase your payload capacity, especially on the rear axle of the tow vehicle. Ultimately, that is determined by the load capacity of the tires. It is what it is and can not be changed by anything.

[Festus2]

jwv:
You didn't mention the model of the toy hauler that you are looking at and I am wondering if it is the same '08 Fuzion 362 that you were considering in early December? I believe you were also considering a 325 SRX at some point. If you recall, you started this thread "Towing an 08 Fuzion 362" (12-03-2011) which generated a great deal of discussion, some of which became quite lively and "heated" at times.
If you are looking at these same TH's or ones that are similar in size/weight, then much of the discussion and responses will probably be identical to those found in the last thread you started.
We don't want to limit or curtail discussion on this topic but if we are going to be repeating answers to the same questions about the same or almost similar toy haulers , then it doesn't seem to serve any purpose.
Perhaps you could specify for us exactly what toy hauler you are looking at. Thank you.

[hankpage]

I don't agree with pushing anything to the max but Toy Haulers are unique when it comes to pin weight. When the garage is loaded the axles on most TH act as a fulcrum and actually reduce pin weight. So in theory a loaded TH may have a lower pin weight than an empty one but it is not likely (my wife can pack more "STUFF" than any of your toys) and this has been discussed under toy hauler heading where a member had to add weight to the front of his loaded TH to maintain stability. Buying a trailer that will overload your TV does not make sense to me unless you plan on replacing your TV in the very near future. If you do get one of these trailers go to a scale. I think you will be surprised with the numbers.:eek: Good luck with your decision, Hank

[jwv]

jwv:
You didn't mention the model of the toy hauler that you are looking at and I am wondering if it is the same '08 Fuzion 362 that you were considering in early December? I believe you were also considering a 325 SRX at some point. If you recall, you started this thread "Towing an 08 Fuzion 362" (12-03-2011) which generated a great deal of discussion, some of which became quite lively and "heated" at times.
If you are looking at these same TH's or ones that are similar in size/weight, then much of the discussion and responses will probably be identical to those found in the last thread you started.
We don't want to limit or curtail discussion on this topic but if we are going to be repeating answers to the same questions about the same or almost similar toy haulers , then it doesn't seem to serve any purpose.
Perhaps you could specify for us exactly what toy hauler you are looking at. Thank you.

I will be ran off this board now as i believe im buying a fleetwood formula 08' 385sa2. 11700 dry, 2100 hitch , 17 gvwr.

[2011 keystone]

I will be ran off this board now as i believe im buying a fleetwood formula 08' 385sa2. 11700 dry, 2100 hitch , 17 gvwr.

I dont think anyone is trying to run you off the forum. you asked a question and did not like the answers you got. These guys know alot about towing and would not tell anyone to do something they do not feel is safe. With that said good luck with whatever you end up buying and be safe out there.

[Festus2]

jwv ........Not to worry about being "run off this board". Owning a Keystone product is not a requirement of membership; however, as you already know, almost everyone here owns a Keystone of some description and just about all of the questions, comments, and discussions focus on Keystone products.
We would like to help you again if we can. Having said that, the concern that I expressed earlier is having another back-to-back, lengthy discussion about two identical toy haulers being towed by the same truck and asking and answering the same questions all over again. If the weights and ratings of this Fleetwood Formula are very close to the Fuzion 362 and the 325 SRX that you inquired about in your earlier thread, then all of the responses will be essentially the same as previously. If they are, then there doesn't seem to be much sense in duplicating the discussion.
By now, you should be able to make an informed decision on your own based on all of the feedback you got from your previous thread. You know all of the necessary "numbers" of both your truck and the toy hauler and I am quite sure you can do the math yourself and come up with something that will be safely within the towing limits.

[jje1960]

jvm and 08ramguy posts recently are very similar. No one here trying to run anyone off or go at anyone.... The forum is about helping from my perspective, which I think all have attempted to do. Defending the indefensible is extremely hard to advise against.

[smiller]

Defending the indefensible is extremely hard to advise against.Huh..?? :D

[jwv]

my question on this thread that no one will answer was with an f250 and 2k of cargo capacity am i better off with a
11,700 lb coach with a 2200 lb hitch weight or
a 9500 lb coach with a 2500 lb hitch weight ?

[2011 keystone]

From what I have read here neither is a good choice. You either need a larger tv or a smaller tt.

[SteveC7010]

my question on this thread that no one will answer was with an f250 and 2k of cargo capacity am i better off with a
11,700 lb coach with a 2200 lb hitch weight or
a 9500 lb coach with a 2500 lb hitch weight ?

I am pretty certain that no one is going to tell you that either one is a good choice.

And I don't think anyone is even going to say that one or the other is the lesser of two evils.

I also expect that none of us is willing to advise anyone to intentionally overload a tow vehicle.

As has already been said by others, the only advice I am willing to offer is to either buy a trailer that does not exceed the capacities of your F-250 or step up to a 350 duallie that can safely and properly handle any of the trailers you have proposed.

[Festus2]

Another "answer" .........

It seems to me that you are left with these choices:
(1) If you are going to be sticking with your F250, then you should consider buying an RV that is within its towing capacity..This might require you to revisit and revise your "wish list" ......OR....
(2) If you are going to buy one of the two RV's referred to in your post, then you should think about buying a truck that has the towing capacity to safely pull either one.

Hopefully, you will make an informed choice keeping in mind the safety and well-being of you, your family and those sharing the highways with you.

[smiller]

You might want to consider going back to the 325SRX idea. It's one of the few 'separate garage' toyhaulers than can be towed with a 3/4-ton and be within limits (and even then, not by much.)

[jwv]

325 has a hitch weight of 1800 lbs. formula has a hitch weight of 2100 lbs.
that 300 lb difference gets somewhat distributed to both axels. somewhat
splitting hairs imo and i get the trailer i want. if i need to in a year or 2 ill
get an f350. My truck(f250) can legally pull 15,500 on a 5th wheel. i may also look into upgrading leaf springs and getting the best tires possible.

[smiller]

The 325SRX has a pin weight of just under 1500 lbs. That's a 600 lb. difference, which is huge on a SRW truck.

You've heard the opinion here (in virtually 100% agreement), if you want to rationalize it away that's your call. If you are absolutely determined you could go to a set of 19.5" wheels and tires so at least you won't have as much of a time bomb (which it will be if you load that much weight on two load range E tires.)

[Festus2]

smiller wrote:
"You've heard the opinion here (in virtually 100% agreement), if you want to rationalize it away, that's your call."

When you finally make that call, let us know what it is.

[jwv]

(100% agreement) ive spoken to just as many who have pulled 15-16k rigs
for thousands of miles with 3/4 tons with no issues.
i do have the 20" wheels and tires on now (3450lbs per tire )

[smiller]

i do have the 20" wheels and tires on now (3450lbs per tire )Then you might pull it off. In any event it sounds like you have already made your decision so good luck and stay safe.

[SteveC7010]

i do have the 20" wheels and tires on now (3450lbs per tire )

Food for thought on the larger wheels and tires: It is possible that they may raise the truck up enough to create clearance issues with the top of the pickup bed and the overhang of the fifth wheeler. It may not be apparent on straight and level surfaces, but could be a problem in some situations where the trailer and the truck end up at different angles like the entrances to parking lots, gas stations, etc. Any place that has the potential for the rear end of the trailer to go real high or real low might do it.

Not sayin' you will have a problem, but more urging you to double check that before writing a check.

[jwv]

Then you might pull it off. In any event it sounds like you have already made your decision so good luck and stay safe.


last question. does the 3450lb rated tires mean the tires at 80 psi support
that weight excluding the truck. payload support ?

[jwv]

Food for thought on the larger wheels and tires: It is possible that they may raise the truck up enough to create clearance issues with the top of the pickup bed and the overhang of the fifth wheeler. It may not be apparent on straight and level surfaces, but could be a problem in some situations where the trailer and the truck end up at different angles like the entrances to parking lots, gas stations, etc. Any place that has the potential for the rear end of the trailer to go real high or real low might do it.

Not sayin' you will have a problem, but more urging you to double check that before writing a check.

ok thanks. On the 5th wheel i want they have flipped the axels so it sits a bit higher and will hopefully help. ill look at my clearance carefully.

[SteveC7010]

last question. does the 3450lb rated tires mean the tires at 80 psi support that weight excluding the truck. payload support ?

There are charts available that show the load rating for tires at various tire pressures. You'll want to get the right chart for your tires to be double sure.

The load rating of the tires includes everything that is on them which includes the truck and payload. At proper pressure, the 3,450# rating (the number you supplied here) is for each tire. Those tires can support 6,900# per axle, if the number you gave us is what is stamped on the tire.

That does not increase the payload or GVWR of your truck, but does pretty much assure that if there is a failure due to overloading, it is much less likely to be the tires.

Here's a pretty good tire pressure chart for you. It looks like your 20" tires need to be at least 90 psi or higher to achieve max rating.

http://www.taevt.org/images/RadialTrkTireLoadRangeChart.pdf

[Outbackmel]

Go Peterbilt or Kenworth with a sleeper cab and forget all this stuff....heck, what's another $100,000 ?? ...... In your off RV time, you can be an OTR freight hauler to pay for your rig. AND the bonus is the HUGE AIR HORN...blow it each morning at 7am in the campground as you crank that puppy up and idle it for an hour or so.....

This has been "rung out"....no minds are going to change. BUT, it was GREAT listening to the "opinions" expressed.

Common sense says: safety first. When we haul these monsters down the road, we take on "responsibility" and we all know, even in the best of circumstances, S*** Happens! SURE, you can tow at 80mph; for how long?
SURE you can push your weight limit past max, for how long? SURE you can take that gasser with no exhaust brake down the mountain and pray brakes do not overheat and there is a "Runaway truck ramp" handy...and on and on. BUT, this is SUPPOSED to FUN...white knuckling is NOT FUN...these are controllable decisions. Make WISE choices and let's set the example for safety first....."bouncey:

Go out and enjoy 2012....life is short...explore; camp and make new friends.

[smiller]

BUT, this is SUPPOSED to FUN...white knuckling is NOT FUN...Ain't that the truth. I have probably made more upgrades to prevent white knuckles than for safety reasons. Living at the edge can be fun but not when towing... :D

[Festus2]

Outbackmel wrote:

"This (thread) has been "rung out". No minds are going to change. BUT, it was GREAT listening to the "opinions" expressed."

It seems like bell has indeed "rung" which signals the closing of this thread. Thanks to all who contributed to a very lively discussion and exchange of opinions.
This thread is now closed.

[Festus2]

See above post re thread closure. Thank you