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Aric G
04-22-2021, 04:33 AM
Hello,

I was reading some articles about putting Michelin tires on the travel trailer. Does anyone have Michelin tires on your TT? If so, what is your experience? If we put these tires on our TT I will have to put on 16" rims which will add to the cost.

Thank you!

jasin1
04-22-2021, 05:18 AM
Well this will be a lengthy thread probably :popcorn:
Welcome to the forum! Tires bring out a lot of differing opinions

JRTJH
04-22-2021, 07:10 AM
Most trailers are "designed, specified and engineered to require tires that support more weight than "LT or P series tires are rated to carry in the size tire specified for the trailer".

Most people (there are some who do not agree) will follow the tire ratings specified on the trailer tire placard. IF the trailer placard specifies ST tires in a specific size, that is what size tire should be installed on replacement. Many/most of us will "go up a load range or even two, but most stay with the same size tire. Most travel trailers built since around 2010 specify the use of ST tires, however between 2000 and 2010, there were some trailers that were built that specified LT tires.

I don't know of any Keystone product currently being produced that specifies LT tires.

The problem fitting them on a travel trailer is that LT tires, in a specified size, do not have the weight capacity rating to "equal or exceed ST tire capacity for that size tire"...

For me, it boils down to this: You can put any tire you want on your trailer. I don't think it's "a violation of law" to change sizes. The objective, IMHO, should be to replace tires with ones that can carry "as much or more weight" than the ones they are replacing... Installing tires rated at 2000 pounds in place of tires rated at 2800 pounds seems to be "going the wrong direction"...

If you list the tires you have and the tires you want to use as replacements, someone can give you the specific differences between those two tires. What I've said above is "speaking in generalities" not in the "nuts and bolts facts" concerning what you have now and what you propose to install.

CWtheMan
04-22-2021, 07:16 AM
Hello,

I was reading some articles about putting Michelin tires on the travel trailer. Does anyone have Michelin tires on your TT? If so, what is your experience? If we put these tires on our TT I will have to put on 16" rims which will add to the cost. (Will the trailer manufacturer recommend/approve the increase in tire diameter?)

Thank you!

RV trailer tires can be from all tires designed and approved as highway tires. That includes P, LT and ST tires. The trailer manufacturers are the only ones to make the decision of what tires to use on their trailers.

In the past, Denali RV trailers have used “P” tires on some of their models including fivers with 20# wheel/tire assemblies. “P” tires are very popular on dual axle bass boat trailers. “P” tires are difficult for trailer manufacturers of heavy trailers to overcome when considering their use. Their load capacity MUST be reduced by about 10% for use on RV trailer axles and getting suspensions to be stable with their more flexible sidewalls is another obstacle for the trailer manufacturer to overcome.

The experimental years with “LT” tires on RV trailers were probably at their peak somewhere between years 2003-2007. As the “ST” tire manufacturers increased their higher load capacity tires with numerous larger designated sizes, “LT” use started to wane. Mathematically it’s quite easy to figure out why; The LT235/85R16 LRE tire provides a maximum load capacity of 3042# at 80 PSI. The ST235/85R16 LRE provides its maximum load capacity of 3640# at 80 PSI.

There were a couple of “LT” brands that built, what I call a bastardized 16” steel cased tires. Because they had attributes from LT and ST designs they were called Regional Service Tires for trailers only. However, to use the LT prefix their design was linked to the LT tire load inflation charts. I predict they will soon become obsolete, because; with the advent of the RVIA tire load capacity recommendation they no longer qualify for service on vehicle certified 7000# axles. (They would be quite an expensive overkill for 6000# axles).

There are two glaring reasons why replacement tires from one designated size cannot be used to replace the original equipment tires of another designated size. The vehicle certification label rules the roost – so to speak. (Industry standards are derived from all governing body - DOT - regulations and standards). The industry standard as written by the USTMA states; “never choose a replacement tire of a smaller size or with less load-carrying capacity than the OE tire size at the specified vehicle tire placard pressure” (Size in that context means size designation), unless others are recommended/approved by the vehicle manufacturer.

Safety is probably the primary reason to follow vehicle manufacturer recommendations and tire industry standards. They are the qualified experts.

I’m pretty sure your Michelin reference is linked to Airstream TTs. Their owner base put a lot of pressure on them to try-out the more expensive Michelin tires. Airstream relented and offered them as options on some of their deluxe models. Keep in mind that the use of tire designs on one model does not transfer approval to another model with different tire designations. OE tire designated sizes are certified with the federal vehicle certification label. Once the vehicle manufacturer has determined the Original Equipment designated tire size and identified them on the vehicle certification label, they are required by certification standards to have that designated size tire on the trailer at the time of first sale.

CWtheMan
04-22-2021, 07:32 AM
You can put any tire you want on your trailer. I don't think it's "a violation of law" to change sizes.

This is not meant to be a contradiction. It's just information I've researched that applies to all tires.

Background: Each DOT document or CFR document on tires set precedents. The following - out of context - quote is from 570.62.

(Tires) "Examine visually. A mismatch in size and construction between tires on the same axle, or a major deviation from the size recommended by the vehicle or tire manufacturer, is a cause for rejection."

CFR 570 is a DOT document that outlines minimum acceptable tire inspections adopted by state vehicle inspection agencies.

Aric G
04-22-2021, 02:45 PM
Thank you for the in depth information. You are correct about the Airstream reference. I saw a you tube video about it and it got me thinking. I will eventually replace my Trailer King ST225/75R15E tires to something not made in China.
You seem very knowledgeable in this matter. What make and model of tires would you recommend? I am towing a Cougar Half ton 26RKS. 8800 Gross Weight.

Thank you!

Aric G
04-22-2021, 02:48 PM
Thank you for the information it makes sense. My question comes form a video I saw about putting new trailer tires from Michelin on an Airstream TT. It makes sense to keep the same rim size and designation that the manufacturer specifies.

What are you running on your camper?

CWtheMan
04-22-2021, 04:51 PM
Thank you for the in depth information. You are correct about the Airstream reference. I saw a you tube video about it and it got me thinking. I will eventually replace my Trailer King ST225/75R15E tires to something not made in China.
You seem very knowledgeable in this matter. What make and model of tires would you recommend? I am towing a Cougar Half ton 26RKS. 8800 Gross Weight.

Thank you!

GY is the only USA manufacturer for ST225/75R15 LRE tires.

Aric G
04-22-2021, 05:10 PM
Alright. I didn’t know that. Thank you.

hankpage
04-22-2021, 11:58 PM
It used to be hard to find any written documentation on all position tires from Michelin until I came across this recently.https://business.michelinman.com/tires/michelin-xps-rib

Before I start I want to warn you that what has been said before is true. To make a modification like this, however simple it may seem, you become responsible for any legal problems that could arise.

I have been running XPS Ribs since '96 on my last two 5ers. Both trailers were well under the GVWR for the E rating on the XRIBS. The first being a 29 SOB with no slide outs. With less than 4k on them I had two blowouts on different sides on different axles about five hours apart. The service truck driver recommended looking into the Michelin's. I replaced all 5 tires and rims before the next trip.

'07 Comes and we decide we need a little more room while sitting in the Cougar at an RV show. What a difference one 12ft. slide can make in livability and still in my weight range. Thinking at the time that I knew everything about RVs I insisted on Goodyear Marathons or the deal was off. We rolled away a week later and I thought I got some deal. One year later at night in Ga. I heard a bang and saw a few flashes from the steel belts in the mirror. Tire never went down but complete tread separation. No damage to trailer but when changing tire I see MADE IN CHINA on four mounted tires and MADE IN USA on the spare.

Enough of my chatter at 3 am ..... XRIBS are only made in 16" two sizes each with two load ratings. Weight will,not be a problem with a trailer as light as yours but clearance may be. Fiscally measure the actual tire you are getting ... height and mounted width for clearance between front and rear tires, wheel well and sides near suspension and slide mechanisms. Add metal stems to new rims for sure. Less flex and rolling resistance = less tire temp and more mpg.

I got the best price at COSTCO but they would not mount on the trailer because size did not match Manufactures spec. (another thing you may come across dealing with reputable tire stores)

After all that with your size trailer, I would look at upgrading to something in the same size with a better load rating from manufacturer with better reviews, here or on line, even if made in Asia. :facepalm:

JRTJH
04-23-2021, 06:41 AM
What Hank posted is the situation with Michelin XPS Rib and a "trailer GVW less than 10K. To install them, you need to buy 5 new wheels and 5 tires. I suppose you "could" carry a 15" spare TK tire to use with 4 16" Michelin tires, but .....

Anyway, the 15" vs 16" wheel size is what "ups the game price" as well as the more expensive cost of the tires....

What you might consider is Carlisle Radial Trail HD tires, 225 75R15 LRE. Many of us have switched from the TK's to the Carlisle tires and I can only recall one posted comment about tire quality/reliability in the past 4 or 5 years...

Carlisle, unlike TK, OWNS and MANAGES their own tire plant in China. They do not contract with a Chinese company to manufacture their tires there.... With Carlisle having complete control of the process, they aren't faced with the same quality issues that plague TK tires. I'm on my third set of Carlisles (change them every 3 years) and have not had any problems with tires since changing to Carlisle.

While I'm no "tire expert" I can say that I has significant tire issues with TK's the first year of ownership of this trailer and after changing to Carlisle's, I've had almost 6 years of good service with no tire problems.

If you're "set in steel to get Michelins" then not much else will satisfy you. If, on the other hand, you're looking for better tires that have a good reputation and provide problem free service, check out the Carlisle Radial Trail HD.

Currently, WalMart has them on their website for $85.99 each https://www.walmart.com/ip/Carlisle-Radial-Trail-HD-All-Season-ST225-75R15-E-10PR-Tire/55012166 You'll have to take your current tires/wheels to WalMart to have them changed out because "most" WalMart service centers do not work on trailers but will work on trailer tires/wheels.

Additionally, Discount Tire will often price match WalMart's price, so if you decide to go that route and have a Discount Tire in your area, talk to them as well. DT does usually have the facilities to change out tires on trailers.

CWtheMan
04-23-2021, 08:02 PM
Alright. I didn’t know that. Thank you.

Carlisle tire manufacturers an all steel ST225/75R15 LRF that provides 3080# of load capacity at 95 PSI.

https://www.carlislebrandtires.com/our-products/product-detail/csl16/

JRTJH
04-23-2021, 11:03 PM
Carlisle tire manufacturers an all steel ST225/75R15 LRF that provides 3080# of load capacity at 95 PSI.

https://www.carlislebrandtires.com/our-products/product-detail/csl16/

I haven't been able to find wheels rated at 3080 pounds that are 15" 6 lug. Do you know of any?

flybouy
04-24-2021, 04:14 AM
When Carlise came out with those I looked as well. My Sendel wheels are good to 80 psi (verified with Sendel via email several years ago) so just for giggles loooed at what was available in a 15" and could not find any. That's been a while ago so maybe something is available now?

Aric G
04-24-2021, 06:23 AM
Got it! That makes sense. Don’t go messing around with sizes. Thank you.

JRTJH
04-24-2021, 06:55 AM
Same with me, Marshall. I've been looking, more from curiosity than need, at those tires. I don't need to upgrade tire capacity, I'm good with what I have, but I know that sooner or later, someone on the forum is going to want (and really need) the capacity those tires give.... To use them, they'll need wheels that can carry the rated weight....

So far, in over a year of looking, I haven't found 15" wheels (aluminum or steel) that carry a load rating heavier than 2830 pounds, much less the 3100 pounds the steel cased Carlisle's are rated....

I'm "sort of convinced" that they'd be OK on our current Sendel wheels, but the numbers "simply don't say it's so"....

Ratings? Who worries about stinkin' ratings? Says the 500 pound woman who uses her average bathroom scale to weigh herself every morning......

rlh1957
04-29-2021, 09:49 AM
Airstreams are standard from the factory with Michelins.

Tireman9
04-29-2021, 11:04 AM
As an actual Tire Design Engineer I can assure you that there is more misinformation or partially correct information out there than technically accurate information.

It is true that the original tire selection is the responsibility of the RV Mfg. The issue is that once the RV is sold it seems that most RV Manufacturers have little or no interest in standing behind their choices with any actual warranty service when it comes to tires.


It seems that OE tire selection for RVs is based on one goal. Find the smallest, lowest cost tire that will meet the requirements.


The only Federal (DOT) requirement is that the tire load capacity be AT LEAST equal to the maximum load rating of the axle. While RVIA now requires 10% extra capacity, DOT does not. As a point of reference most cars come with a 20% to 30% or higher Reserve Load capacity



A smaller tire can mean the RV Manufacturer can get away with less costly (smaller) wheel well so this is extra pressure on purchasing to get the minimum possible tire that can meet the requirements.


Given the above, it is up to you, the owner, to decide if you want any, some or more "Reserve Load capacity" for your RV. You may have the option of larger tires or you may be restricted to trying to find tires of the same dimensions but with higher load capacity.


You need to educate yourself about the requirements and limitations of the four "types" of tires that are in the market. 'P" is Passenger type. If used on an RV (trailer or motorhome) the load capacity Must be reduced by dividing by 1.1 but not everyone will know or do that. LT type can be used in RV service but you will soon discover that LT tires with the same dimensions and Load Range (ply rating) have a lower load capacity than the same dimension ST type.
ST type have the highest load capacity rating for a given set of dimensions, but you need to remember that the ST tire Load formula that is used to calculate the tire load capacity is based on an assumption of a 65 MPH Max speed. We all know that there is "No Free Lunch" and the trade-off for increased load capacity is lower speed capability. The "Speed Rating" symbol on many ST type tires is based on a 30 minute test so you need to decide if you want to depend on such a short term test when making a tire selection.
Finally there are actual "Truck / Bus" tires. These have no leading letter and are usually on 17.5" or larger wheels. These tires have higher Load Range, usually F or higher These tires are almost all rated for 75 MPH in RV use on the highway.


Do your homework. Ask questions, but remember there are very few really knowledgeable people out there who have the training or experience in tire engineering. Just having driven on tires for 40 years is not the same as having been held responsible for designing tires for Truck, Passenger, Trailer, or Indianapolis racing application. Also, being able to read Federal Regulations is not the same as having to work within those regulations while meeting the goals and demands from GM, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Freightliner, MB, Nissan, Ford, or Chrysler.

FordF350
04-29-2021, 11:34 AM
My humble opinion on trailer tires .
Do your homework and know the gvw of your trailer .
Don’t skimp on quality.
Check tire pressures frequently and rotate tires yearly .
Buy a air pressure monitoring system.
Try and stay away from the “ China Bombs “ if possible with a few exceptions like Carlisle.
Firestone and Michelin are two brands to consider.
.Under pressure , UV sunlight , weight and speed are the killer of trailer tires .
The sidewalls are the culprit not the tread depth.
Try to buy the best that you can afford after you have followed the above advice . A catastrophic tire failure can be deadly and cause considerable damage to a trailer and also ruin a vacation.

fjr1300
04-29-2021, 07:14 PM
I haven't been able to find wheels rated at 3080 pounds that are 15" 6 lug. Do you know of any?

Recstuff.com (https://recstuff.com/trailer-wheels/15-inch?_bc_fsnf=1&Size=15%22&Bolt+Pattern=6+on+5.5%22&Load+Capacity=3200lbs) has four styles of 15" 6 lug wheels rated for 3200 lbs.

sourdough
04-29-2021, 07:43 PM
As an actual Tire Design Engineer I can assure you that there is more misinformation or partially correct information out there than technically accurate information.

It is true that the original tire selection is the responsibility of the RV Mfg. The issue is that once the RV is sold it seems that most RV Manufacturers have little or no interest in standing behind their choices with any actual warranty service when it comes to tires.


It seems that OE tire selection for RVs is based on one goal. Find the smallest, lowest cost tire that will meet the requirements.


The only Federal (DOT) requirement is that the tire load capacity be AT LEAST equal to the maximum load rating of the axle. While RVIA now requires 10% extra capacity, DOT does not. As a point of reference most cars come with a 20% to 30% or higher Reserve Load capacity



A smaller tire can mean the RV Manufacturer can get away with less costly (smaller) wheel well so this is extra pressure on purchasing to get the minimum possible tire that can meet the requirements.


Given the above, it is up to you, the owner, to decide if you want any, some or more "Reserve Load capacity" for your RV. You may have the option of larger tires or you may be restricted to trying to find tires of the same dimensions but with higher load capacity.


You need to educate yourself about the requirements and limitations of the four "types" of tires that are in the market. 'P" is Passenger type. If used on an RV (trailer or motorhome) the load capacity Must be reduced by dividing by 1.1 but not everyone will know or do that. LT type can be used in RV service but you will soon discover that LT tires with the same dimensions and Load Range (ply rating) have a lower load capacity than the same dimension ST type.
ST type have the highest load capacity rating for a given set of dimensions, but you need to remember that the ST tire Load formula that is used to calculate the tire load capacity is based on an assumption of a 65 MPH Max speed. We all know that there is "No Free Lunch" and the trade-off for increased load capacity is lower speed capability. The "Speed Rating" symbol on many ST type tires is based on a 30 minute test so you need to decide if you want to depend on such a short term test when making a tire selection.
Finally there are actual "Truck / Bus" tires. These have no leading letter and are usually on 17.5" or larger wheels. These tires have higher Load Range, usually F or higher These tires are almost all rated for 75 MPH in RV use on the highway.


Do your homework. Ask questions, but remember there are very few really knowledgeable people out there who have the training or experience in tire engineering. Just having driven on tires for 40 years is not the same as having been held responsible for designing tires for Truck, Passenger, Trailer, or Indianapolis racing application. Also, being able to read Federal Regulations is not the same as having to work within those regulations while meeting the goals and demands from GM, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Freightliner, MB, Nissan, Ford, or Chrysler.


Roger is there some reason you upsized the fonts for your post (shouting?)? We all use regular fonts and the community rules have guidelines on them - you might read those. Everyone's thoughts/opinions carry the same weight upsized fonts or not.

JRTJH
04-29-2021, 08:55 PM
Recstuff.com (https://recstuff.com/trailer-wheels/15-inch?_bc_fsnf=1&Size=15%22&Bolt+Pattern=6+on+5.5%22&Load+Capacity=3200lbs) has four styles of 15" 6 lug wheels rated for 3200 lbs.

Thanks for the info... I went to recstuff.com and sure enough... Those are Sendel wheels, also listed on their website... Easy, right ??? NOPE !!! I used the Sendel part number, and looked them up on the Discount Tire site. Same model/part number is listed for the same price, $119 each, but on the DT site, those wheels are rated at 2830/80PSI... I sent an email to DT asking if their specs are correct, so we'll see.... Tomorrow, I'll check with Sendel to get their specs as well.

Anyway, thanks again for the link. Hopefully it'll lead to an answer....

CWtheMan
04-30-2021, 12:06 AM
I haven't been able to find wheels rated at 3080 pounds that are 15" 6 lug. Do you know of any?

They can be found somewhere on this page.

https://www.carlislebrandtires.com/our-products/product-detail/highway-eight-spoke-trailer-wheel/

CWtheMan
04-30-2021, 01:09 AM
Being an expert on how tires are built does not indicate expertise on how tires are governed or how those regulations are linked together with tire industry standards.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is the arm of the DOT that establishes vehicle safety standards, including tires. They are numerous standards controlled by NHTSA. They established the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) to insure minimum tire standards are observed. They also administer the documents in SAFECAR.

NHTSA uses mandatory mandates to insure consumers are aware of important tire industry standards that are spelled-out in various FMVSS standards. The following paragraph is a mandated mandatory safety notation about tire designated sizes. It is found in all vehicle owner manuals. If you look at the USTMA industry standards for replacement tires you will also find that statement.

Tire Size: “To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. Look at the Tire and Loading Information label, or the sidewall of the tire you are replacing to find this information. If you have any doubt about the correct size to choose, consult with the tire dealer”.

The ST tire manufacturers have acted quite favorable to the needs of load capacity reserves for RV trailer tire fitments with the addition of load ranges with higher PSI ratings for more load capacity within a designate tire size; Such as the ST25/75R15 having load range letters C, D, E, and F.

flybouy
04-30-2021, 03:49 AM
Thanks for the info... I went to recstuff.com and sure enough... Those are Sendel wheels, also listed on their website... Easy, right ??? NOPE !!! I used the Sendel part number, and looked them up on the Discount Tire site. Same model/part number is listed for the same price, $119 each, but on the DT site, those wheels are rated at 2830/80PSI... I sent an email to DT asking if their specs are correct, so we'll see.... Tomorrow, I'll check with Sendel to get their specs as well.

Anyway, thanks again for the link. Hopefully it'll lead to an answer....

I looked at the Sendel site and now they list 2 rims in the style I have with 2 weight and psi ratings and different part numbers. http://sendelwheel.com/wheels/t03sm.html. For me it's academic because I don't need the extra capacity.

lcarver02
05-23-2021, 08:05 AM
You can buy some very good quality American made trailer tires with high weight ratings for half the cost. No reason to go to the Michelin your thinking of (assuming load rage e). Goodyear Assurance is a very good one. Suggest a Load Range E at least 117 rated and a speed rating of N or R (depends on how fast you drive). Air them to Maximum pressure - This is a Must.

lcarver02
05-23-2021, 08:31 AM
You can buy some very good quality American made trailer tires with high weight ratings for half the cost. No reason to go to the Michelin your thinking of (assuming load rage e). Goodyear Assurance is a very good one. Suggest a Load Range E at least 117 rated and a speed rating of N or R (depends on how fast you drive). Air them to Maximum pressure - This is a Must.

Correction, not Goodyear Assurance, it is Goodyear Endurance. They are excellent tires.