Diesel vs Gasoline

[kingji]

I currently own a 99 F250 PSD. Back when I bought it and for several years later the price of diesel wasn't that much higher than gasoline so it seemed like a no-brainer to get the diesel. I currently have the 2011 Springdale 28fw and pull it three or four times a year for short distances (200-400 miles one way). Currently the price of diesel is 3.89 and gasoline is 3.11 here in the middle of the oil patch. I think I would have to think twice at buying another diesel in the next couple of years and then it would probably be a slightly used one. Seems like the upkeep keeps getting higher all the time also. Any of ya in the same circumstances and having the same thoughts? My work truck is a 2011 Ford 6.3 (i believe) gasser and it seems to have really good power.
Jimmy

[CarKath]

It all comes down to works for yourself. If gasser works for you....... run with it.

I have a diesel and would personally have nothing else, but thats me.

All a personal desicion there.

[ktmracer]

from an economic standpoint, your analysis is on course. Hard to justify a diesel on pure economics. In my case, economics plays a role, but not a large one in determining a tow vehicle and engine combo. If we did it again, it's highly likely I'd go diesel again. I just prefer the diesels towing performance vs. gas. But, it's really a personal preference, put the economic element in it's proper place for you and then pick what you want.

In the big picture, I can't find a way to justify the purchase of our trailer and tow vehicle on an economic basis. Yes we like camping, it's important to us, we enjoy it, not camping would be a big change in our lifestyle, but from an economic standpoint we'd be ahead not having a trailer or truck and pick much less expensive hobbies and activities.

[JRTJH]

As you can see by my signature, I've been "EXACTLY" where you are. We started our diesel experience in 1993. At that time I had a 1/2ton F150 and we bought a 34' Holiday Rambler. I towed it about halfway home, realized that I really couldn't tow with that truck and literally stopped on the way home and bought a 93 F250 7.3L diesel. We towed with it for 5 years and finally decided that I wanted a 4X4, so when the superduty came out in 1999, I bought one of the first in town. Essentially the same 7.3L engine, but much improved preformance (turbo) and a significantly improved transmission. We towed with it for 3 years, inherited a motorhome and decided to sell the trailer. Kept the truck to use around the camp in Louisiana until we decided to move back to Michigan to retire. Our home here doesn't have enough space in the garage for that diesel, so we elected to get out of RVing, and to "downsize to a Ranger". Once we got settled and realized we really missed the camping lifestyle, we decided to reinvest in RVing. After much research and assessing our real needs, we decided that a gas engine in an F150 (fits in the garage) and a smaller fifth wheel would meet our needs and still accommodate our limitations as for storage, camping desires and finances, so we bought what we have...

A part of my analysis included operating costs of diesel and gas vehicles, upkeep, purchase and resale values, performance in areas we find important (towing, mobility in 4 wheel environment, vehicle size, cold weather operation) to name a few.

I found that with diesel's mileage towing and solo, it pretty much matches a gas engine vehicle given the increased cost of diesel. ie: Gas is cheaper, diesel vehicles get better mileage which makes both "sort of equal" as far as the cost at the pump. But, when you add the increased cost of maintenance for diesel (oil changes, filter costs, etc), then with our needs, the gas engine came out being the best financial option. I say financial because to own the diesel, I'd need to rebuild the garage and then maintain a much larger vehicle that I use for towing only 3 or 4 months a year. Other than summer towing use, the F150 really is a wiser option for our purposes.

That being said, if money was no option, I'd have a brand new F350 SRW 4X4King Ranch and a larger fifth wheel for summer use and I'd have kept my Ranger because it really is more maneuverable in the woods than even the F150. But life's a compromise, I suppose vehicles are sometimes a part of that compromise. I'd urge you to think through all of your circumstances and make the decision that suits your needs best. If your diesel is in good condition and meets your needs, I'd think about keeping it for a while, surely it's cheaper than buying anything new given the cost of todays vehicles.

[Outbackmel]

I searched and waited and last year I bought a 2008 Dodge 2500, turbo diesel, with 17,500 miles on it from Carmax. Love that truck, BUT, being retired now, its a third vehicle for us. I drive it once a week just to run fluids through it, etc. Live in GA and ride my Harley every chance I get.
Wife has a new Ford Escape.

Soooo, life is all about choices. Fortunately we are financially able to enjoy our retirement without too much worry about fuel prices. We are making a 5,000 mile trip in late January and it was either go or miss Utah and New Mexico. We chose go and diesel was just a personal preference.

Buy what you can afford and enjoy....I had boats and horses and they were expensive, but we have good family memories. Worth every penny we lost, and we lost plenty. These toys are not a financial investment :)

Buy, enjoy...

[jje1960]

I'll check back in again in 15yrs or so... I suspect that for us, going with the F350 Diesel DRW was the right choice. Yup, the Diesel is more expensive with fuel and original price of vehicle, that's for sure. However, even pulling the SRX with a golf cart in the back it does not seem like it's working very hard, we want to do a trip out west, now feel comfortable I'm not going to over-work the TV in the mountains.

[kingji]

Knock on wood, I really haven't had any problems with the TV. 160,000 miles on it. Replaced the glow plug selinoid. My previous TV was a 95 Z78 pulling a lighter 27' no slide fifth wheel. I rembember the days cussing when I was down shiffting all the time in slight grades and then having a diesel blow by me with ease. I guess I'll have to do some soul searching when and if the day ever comes on what to purchase next. Thanks again for the thoughts.
Jimmy

[JRTJH]

Sounds like your situation "ain't broke" (at least not yet) I wouldn't go "fixing it" I do miss my diesel, many times when towing, I think how nice it would be "if I only had it back" but then, I think about having to scrape windows, windshield and stand/sit in the cold waiting for it to warm up so I can get going and realize a garage ain't so bad when it's below 0 and snowing 3" an hour. Makes one appreciate a vehicle that will fit in the garage. :bdance:

[Jim W]

My believe is Once You Go Diesel You Won't Go Back . I have a 2008, 2500HD, Mega Cab with a 6.7L Cummins and 68RFE Auto, to pull my 5er and just my general driving around for me. I plan on keeping this truck for a minimum of 300K miles.
This year we went and bought my wife a 2011, VW Jetta TDI with the DSG transmission, this too will be kept for a minimum of 150K miles. The fuel mileage on the Jetta is 36 mpg combined city/highway through 4K miles. Per the EPA testing the gas version of the Jetta is 23 city and 29 highway. I have never been able with a gas vehicle to achieve the EPA estimates for driving, they are usually 2 to 3 MPG under their estimate.
My wife drives the car mainly in the city, which is between 30 and 35 MPH speed limit with stop and go traffic. So to me we are saving more money with the diesel engine and I still believe that diesel is the best fuel for vehicles for long term efficiently.
Jim W.

[jje1960]

I just giggle at the back n' forth. Yea, there are two options and everyone needs to appropriately weigh their options.... That's what it's all about, personal choices. Love this quote though...

" I rembember the days cussing when I was down shiffting all the time in slight grades and then having a diesel blow by me with ease."

Happy with our choice, that's all that matters.

[JRTJH]

I just giggle at the back n' forth. Yea, there are two options and everyone needs to appropriately weigh their options.... That's what it's all about, personal choices. Love this quote though...

" I rembember the days cussing when I was down shiffting all the time in slight grades and then having a diesel blow by me with ease."

Happy with our choice, that's all that matters.

I chuckled at that comment also, but then, when I realized he was talking about a 1995 truck with a 4 speed transmission, I realized he was talking about "old school" gas engine technology. Back then, fuel injection on GM gas engines meant 1 injector in the throttlebody in the intake to replace the carb. Things have come a long way in engine managment (both diesel and gas) and performance is nothing like back then.

When I bought my first diesel in 1993, it was naturally aspirated, we lived in Louisiana and I thought I'd struck the motherload when I towed. No downshifts, easy accelleration, good mileage, comfortable towing environment. Then, we decided to visit LasVegas. Well, somewhere around halfway up the climb into Albequeque (never could spell that) with black smoke belching all over the side of my pretty white trailer, in second gear at 25-30, truck gasping for air, I realized that even diesels have limits. We made it to the top, the descent into the valley was non-eventful and we enjoyed the camping in LasVegas, but on the way home, we went south as far as we could to eliminate climbing back up that mountain range. My wife still complains about all the cleaning she had to do inside that trailer, we had diesel soot on everything we had both in the trailer and in all the storage compartments.

I think I can safely say that when wishes are put aside, and reality enters the picture, either choice, diesel or gas is a personal choice, but one that fits multiple criteria. Both will work in nearly any situation, and which is the best can be made only the one paying the bills for that rig.

[antiqfreq]

Everyone has a different story and here's ours:

Back in 2002 I bought a GMC Envoy, then decided to try camping and bought a 21 ft travel trailer. It pulled it okay but one trip to the North GA mtns and we realized we might need a bigger vehicle if we wanted to go out west.

About four years into camping we decided we wanted to travel the country so we wanted to upgrade the truck and the camper. We started looking at diesels because we figured we'd need the power going up all those mountains out west. We found a gently used 2003 F250 crew cab, 4x4, 7.3L with 80,000 miles on it. We purchased it and then a 32 Ft fiver. We love the combo and weighing in at the weight stations we were within our towing and load limits for the truck and the fiver. It has worked out great for us.

Now we aren't traveling fulltime any longer and for us also it is a 3rd vehicle.
I still have my Envoy, and we still have the Diesel, but the hubby is driving a 2010 Ford Focus for the great gas mileage as he drives 75 miles one way to work every day. Wanted also to save the wear and tear on our beloved diesel.
We plan to keep it a while. There are only 145,000 miles on it and hopefully we'll get at least another 100,000 before we trade it in!

Those were out choices and that is why we made them. Happy with them very much so!

Jo
:thumbsup:

[azr405]

Well we had a GMC gas 6 litre and went west to the Rockies a few years ago pulling a 29 5th. It was ok but you had to be aware when in the mountains. Bought a new 327 and realized I did not have enough truck to pull where we wanted to go. Went and bought 2011 F350 diesel and headed back west and pulled everywhere and I can honestly say it was a pleasure and enjoyed the scenery, the roads, the RV people we met along the way but the best part of the whole trip was my new 350 Diesel. Yes a little big at times but when you put the hammer down it is so worth it. I am a "Diesel all the way guy" now however everyone is entitled to there own opinion and needs

[jje1960]

Well we had a GMC gas 6 litre and went west to the Rockies a few years ago pulling a 29 5th. It was ok but you had to be aware when in the mountains. Bought a new 327 and realized I did not have enough truck to pull where we wanted to go. Went and bought 2011 F350 diesel and headed back west and pulled everywhere and I can honestly say it was a pleasure and enjoyed the scenery, the roads, the RV people we met along the way but the best part of the whole trip was my new 350 Diesel. Yes a little big at times but when you put the hammer down it is so worth it. I am a "Diesel all the way guy" now however everyone is entitled to there own opinion and needs

Simple reply to this post.... Got that right.

[smiller]

One thing that struck me in comparing gas. vs. diesel in my own experience is how it 'felt' (for lack of a better word) when the engine was really being tasked. A steep grade may call for both pedals to be on or near the floor, but under those conditions I always felt that I was wringing the guts out of the gas engine while the diesel just couldn't seem to care less, as in I could run at or near full throttle all day if I wanted and the only thing it would do is simply use more fuel. I sure wouldn't want to do that to a gas engine and expect it to run the next day. I'm not sure how you would put a price on that... probably not much (favoring the gas engine) if you tow infrequently but I have to believe that mainteance and replacement/overhaul costs would have to greatly favor the diesel for moderate-to-heavy use over time.

[Alpinecummin]

Love my diesel! Won't have anything else to tow with!

[cpaulsen]

Well.....my choice is gas. Here gas is 3.73 per gallon and diesel is 4.23. Towing my 5ver about 6-8 times a year usually around 500 miles round trip...gas is my way to go. My Ford V-10 towing the mountains just fine for me.

[gbsb]

We have 2001 GMC 3500 CC DRW with the 8.1 gas and Allison auto trans. We pull a 2010 Fuzion 383 touring Edition 11 toyhauler with a Harley Tri Glide in the garage. We are fulltimers and started traveling this year putting 15,000 miles on since June. From Texas to Alaska and back to Texas with 6 weeks on the Oregon coast. A few places along the way we were slow going up hills but still made it to top and down the other side, I personaly don't mind slow only drive about 60 mph anyway. Would a new diesel truck be nice, heck yea. But we had the '01 GMC a long time and to trade and spend $40,000 to $50,000 just to get 4 more mpg and pull a little faster could not justifiy cost. To each their own for us it was keep what we had and spend the money seeing this beautiful country. Not aginst diesels just aginst spending money not working and no pay check for a couple of years makes you look at things a little differently. Thankful for what we have and are able to see. George

[SAABDOCTOR]

gasoline i don't use no stinkin gasoline!!! I USE GAS OLINE IN MY GIANT SCALE MODEL AIRPLANE. EVERYTHING I DRIVE CAR AND TRUCK DIESEL!:bdance:

[geo]

Long ago, and far away, in college - my DW and I pulled an off-brand pop-up camper with a 4-banger Opel station wagon from Norman, OK to Chaco Canyon, NM. College kids, harumph! :rolleyes: Pop-up was loaded with everything for two young (and stupid) adults and a 2 year old! Loaded heavy - also with a disassembled Cushman super eagle for canyon tranportation :rolleyes: while doing college research! Gasoline was US$0.25/gallon (1974 dollars). I remember that LONG drive out there so well that some 40 years later . . . well, I guess the signature line says it all . .. :thumbsup: and diesel locally (today) at $3.44/gallon.

Ron

[mhs4771]

Everyone talks about the price difference between Gas and Diesel, especially for us when not towing. Well I know lots of folks with their big gas TVs that get 8 to 10 towing and not much better solo, friends were pleased when they went from their 6-7 MPG Dodge/5er to 8-9 MPG MH. My Diesel Dually gets 10 to 12 towing and 17 to 20 Solo, so for our usage (Long Timers) Diesel is the best choice. You have to weigh the pros and cons of everything, not just look at one aspect. Just my nickel's worth (inflation)

[wincrasher]

I'm loving my new truck. But I think the argument really is not gas/diesel, but one of HD vs LD.

When I bought mine, it wasn't outrageously more expensive than the gas engine - maybe $5k more. Compared to a light duty truck, it was more like $15k!

I consistently get 21-22 mpg on rural highways. 12 when towing. So that was a happy surprise. Most guys I know at work with HD trucks with gas engines report single digit mpg unloaded!

My first consideration was safety. I was convinced that I would have more peace of mind with an HD truck. Not having it constantly bleed me dry at the gas pump just made it more palatable to own. Also, I'm hoping that the residual value of my diesel truck is higher when it comes time to replace it - hopefully no earlier than ten years from now.

[azr405]

We have 2001 GMC 3500 CC DRW with the 8.1 gas and Allison auto trans. We pull a 2010 Fuzion 383 touring Edition 11 toyhauler with a Harley Tri Glide in the garage. We are fulltimers and started traveling this year putting 15,000 miles on since June. From Texas to Alaska and back to Texas with 6 weeks on the Oregon coast. A few places along the way we were slow going up hills but still made it to top and down the other side, I personaly don't mind slow only drive about 60 mph anyway. Would a new diesel truck be nice, heck yea. But we had the '01 GMC a long time and to trade and spend $40,000 to $50,000 just to get 4 more mpg and pull a little faster could not justifiy cost. To each their own for us it was keep what we had and spend the money seeing this beautiful country. Not aginst diesels just aginst spending money not working and no pay check for a couple of years makes you look at things a little differently. Thankful for what we have and are able to see. George

Most important thing I figure is that you are out enjoying the beautiful countryside and as long as that is still happening you can pull with whatever you like as it is the enjoyment of RVing that is number 1

[cpaulsen]

I'm loving my new truck. But I think the argument really is not gas/diesel, but one of HD vs LD.

When I bought mine, it wasn't outrageously more expensive than the gas engine - maybe $5k more. Compared to a light duty truck, it was more like $15k!

I consistently get 21-22 mpg on rural highways. 12 when towing. So that was a happy surprise. Most guys I know at work with HD trucks with gas engines report single digit mpg unloaded!

My first consideration was safety. I was convinced that I would have more peace of mind with an HD truck. Not having it constantly bleed me dry at the gas pump just made it more palatable to own. Also, I'm hoping that the residual value of my diesel truck is higher when it comes time to replace it - hopefully no earlier than ten years from now.

Unloaded in my F350/V-10/CC/LB/4x4...I get between 9-10.5 loaded and 14-16 mpg empty.

[oldfamer]

With my 2011 chevy 2500HD with 6.0 gasser, I get 15-16 empty and 8-9 pulling my 10K fifth wheel. In my area diesel is .90 cents a gallon higher than gas. I only pull my 5er 3000 or 4000 miles a year. I drive to many miles driving empty to justify the $8000 price difference of the diesel engine and the price of fuel.

[wincrasher]

where I am, the difference is about 60 cents. So I figure the break-even is 4 mpg difference - so a gasser would need to get 18 mpg to be equivalent to the diesel getting 22mpg.

So, it would take many miles to make up for the difference in upfront and maintenance cost. So then you'd have to consider longevity and resale.

So it may or may not make economic sense depending on your usage, or be marginal difference at best.

So then it gets back to usability and comfort doing your towing, and satisfaction with performance. So do you buy a truck that is precisely matched to what you are towing right now, or do you buy something that can handle alot bigger load in the future? Do you buy more than you need now, so you are ready for something that may or may not happen later?

[2011 keystone]

So do you buy a truck that is precisely matched to what you are towing right now, or do you buy something that can handle alot bigger load in the future? Do you buy more than you need know, so you are ready for something that may or may not happen later


I whent bigger with my truck for just the reason you stated. we plan on buying a 5er in the next year or so.

[Hansel]

You have one of the best diesel engines International has ever made, Period!!!! The junk that has come out since 2003 6.0L garbage and it's not getting any better from Ford:( I would not want to have too go out and replace my 7.3L because I'd have to find another 7.3L. Ya the price of diesel stinks I love my truck just not when I take it too the pump ($4.09) IMHO if you go with a gas truck you will replace long before you will a diesel, so are you really saving any money??? Probably not in the long run, so you pay alittle more at the pump but your truck will outlast and pull any gas motor out there. My truck has over 225,000 miles and half of it's life as been pulling my Laredo and the marching band 28ft trailer all over NE Georgia, and knock on wood the only thing I've replaced is the tranny. I bet a gas truck with that kind of mileage has more work done on it than a diesel.

[Str8shooter]

My 2011 Ford F250 6.7L 4x4 Super Duty diesel is a great TV. Purchased in June 2010 it has about 34,000 miles on it now. During trips on level highways at 65 mph it averages 20 mpg and with the 36' 12K Raptor toyhauler behind the average is 11 mpg. Over mountain highways 9 to 10 mpg is the norm. The best part? That's easy, its the pulling power and ease which the truck handles the load - something to be said for 400 hp and 800 lbs of torque. A joy to drive with or without the Raptor, which by the way, has well over 5,000 miles on it behind the truck.

Ford's new diesel engine is, and I'm speaking from experience, one great piece of engineering. I will never say its perfect, but it is pretty sweet. I did my homework and research and picked the new diesel after driving many other vehicles over the years. For sure I'm no "Ford guy" since my last Ford was a '66 Mustang I bought in 1968. Sure wish I had kept it - LOL.

I'd bet Chevy and Dodge have some pretty nice offerings also, but this diesel is no piece of junk.

Just saying. . .

[RCrawler]

My 2011 Ford F250 6.7L 4x4 Super Duty diesel is a great TV. Purchased in June 2010 it has about 34,000 miles on it now. During trips on level highways at 65 mph it averages 20 mpg and with the 36' 12K Raptor toyhauler behind the average is 11 mpg. Over mountain highways 9 to 10 mpg is the norm. The best part? That's easy, its the pulling power and ease which the truck handles the load - something to be said for 400 hp and 800 lbs of torque. A joy to drive with or without the Raptor, which by the way, has well over 5,000 miles on it behind the truck.

Ford's new diesel engine is, and I'm speaking from experience, one great piece of engineering. I will never say its perfect, but it is pretty sweet. I did my homework and research and picked the new diesel after driving many other vehicles over the years. For sure I'm no "Ford guy" since my last Ford was a '66 Mustang I bought in 1968. Sure wish I had kept it - LOL.

I'd bet Chevy and Dodge have some pretty nice offerings also, but this diesel is no piece of junk.

Just saying. . .

Just don't get the fuel tank and the DEF tank confused. You might not like your Ford any more. I've read some horror stories.

I used to own diesels because they were cheaper to drive. Not so much anymore.

I have a diesel now because I love them. The smell. The sound (love that straight pipe growl). The power.
And mainly because it makes the "green" people unhappy :)

My truck just wasted the fuel that your hybrid saved...
Jason

[geo]

Str8shooter is so right. The 2011 Ford introduced the new Ford designed and built diesel engine. And to confuse the diesel and DEF fill points would take some real work. The DEF port is too small in diameter to put a diesel nozzle in. One would really have to be determined to do just that, and then probably spill diesel everywhere while filling. The International engine in a Ford truck is no more.

And it is a "green" diesel. The DEF is deionized water and urea. The exhaust reactor is silicon ceramic (very common and inexpensive) coated with a copper/zinc film. The DEF converts the NOx to water and nitrogen.

Both DW and I love driving The Beast. And our daughter is jealous! ;)

Ron

[Halibutman214]

Any of ya in the same circumstances and having the same thoughts? JimmyNo I'm not having the same thoughts and I just filled up yesterday at $4.25 a gallon. Depending on what happens this year it may get to $10 a gallon but for a TV I wouldn't trade my Diesel for anything.

[RCrawler]

The problems start when you accidentally pour DEF into the fuel tank. Not so much of an issue if you fill your own truck, but on large fleets where you have multiple uneducated drivers.
The DEF is corrosive which will damage the fuel system. And once it gets to the injectors, it can destroy major hard engine parts.

Jason

[jsmith948]

Wow, lots of good comments regarding gas vs diesel.
If the long term operation (initial cost, fuel & maint, longevity) of gas rigs was cheaper than diesel, the trucking industry would be using gas engines and the petro industry would be trying to give their diesel away.
As far as the DEF being an issue, it works out to about $ 0.001 per mile, dependikng on your right foot and the use of cruise control (the less you "fan" the throttle the less the system uses)
We love our new Ford diesel!

[RCrawler]

DEF is a good thing. I'm all for anything that reduces EGR duty cycle and increases fuel mileage.

Jason