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Maineiacs
03-13-2021, 09:46 AM
Keystone has some interesting videos posted about their new "giggy box". A master electrical disconnect. Anyone have one?

chuckster57
03-13-2021, 09:53 AM
https://www.keystonerv.com/innovations/giggy-box

Says AFTER 2021, and NOT on 5ers...looks nice and organized though.

travelin texans
03-13-2021, 10:36 AM
If it doesn't completely disconnect all the 12 volt battery drain when turned off it's no better than any of their other disconnects just neater wiring & a silly name.

Maineiacs
03-13-2021, 02:07 PM
If it doesn't completely disconnect all the 12 volt battery drain when turned off it's no better than any of their other disconnects just neater wiring & a silly name.


The marketing literature (which may or may not be 100% accurate) claims it will be a true disconnect including all parasitic loads. The concept is a good one because it will incorporate in one dry place all of the various and sundry connections and inline fuses. Might actually come to pass - might not.

notanlines
03-13-2021, 02:11 PM
I'm guessing a group of 12 year-olds were chosen to name this item?

chuckster57
03-13-2021, 02:18 PM
It will come to pass..

Javi
03-14-2021, 07:04 AM
If it doesn't completely disconnect all the 12 volt battery drain when turned off it's no better than any of their other disconnects just neater wiring & a silly name.

Says it will disconnect all parasitic drain except the breakaway switch which would be illegal for them to do. And it shouldn't be a draw unless activated.

chuckster57
03-14-2021, 07:21 AM
Isn't the LP detector also federally mandated to be always on?

Javi
03-14-2021, 07:26 AM
Isn't the LP detector also federally mandated to be always on?
As far as I know the only applicable requirement for a battery on a trailer is the breakaway switch while towing. And legally it could be specifically dedicated to the breakaway switch.

JRTJH
03-14-2021, 08:29 AM
I agree with Javi. The only "DOT/NHTSA" requirement is for a breakaway switch to be active on trailers over a specific weight when they are being towed on public roads.

The "off the road, parked in a campground RV" is not a "federal highway mandated requirement", so DOT/NHTSA would not have any regulatory control over anything that's "not on the highway"

Where the "mandate" (probably more an agreement between RV manufacturers than a "mandate") would come from RVIA. All of the manufacturers "get together and decide what they want to require on every trailer that has an RVIA compliance sticker on it. Most financial institutions won't finance an RV that does not meet RVIA (or CAC) requirements, so there is some "meat to requiring the sticker"...

RVIA has a requirement that "all inhabited RV's must have an operational LPG. smoke and CO detector installed. There are also some requirements on placement of the devices to meet "self imposed RVIA requirements"....

I believe the "BCO switch wiring" to always power the safety detectors is an RVIA requirement, not a "federal regulatory requirement"...

As for the other parasitic drains (radio presets/memory, remote control/in-command standby circuitry, etc) that's up to the manufacturer. But if you think about it, if you turn the remote receiver or the in-command system "completely off" then you can't "access it via a smart device" from the house... So, it makes sense that the manufacturer (Keystone, Forest River, etc) would wire that type equipment to be "always on".....

This new Giggy Box looks like Keystone's attempt to recognize that consumers want a way to completely remove power from their trailer during storage. This looks like their way of solving two or three issues with "one fix".... I'd guess we'll see a "master cutoff switch" from another manufacturer and probably a "dual switch" like on some motorhomes from other manufacturers.

Stacyismetoo
07-09-2021, 05:49 AM
I have a Giggy box on my new Keystone Carbon toy hauler. It is nice and organized, however, the battery disconnect does not actually work. I opened the cover and verified that I do in fact have the optional disconnect but when I turn the power switch to the off position, all the 12V system is still active. I am NOT plugged into shore power. Iíve reached out to keystone for guidance

machz
07-09-2021, 06:40 AM
I have a Giggy box on my new Keystone Carbon toy hauler. It is nice and organized, however, the battery disconnect does not actually work. I opened the cover and verified that I do in fact have the optional disconnect but when I turn the power switch to the off position, all the 12V system is still active. I am NOT plugged into shore power. Iíve reached out to keystone for guidance


I also have it on my 22MLS and it kills everything in my RV when I switch it to off. I haven't hooked it to a meter yet but I know none of my systems work with it off and no shore power.

travelin texans
07-09-2021, 07:02 AM
I also have it on my 22MLS and it kills everything in my RV when I switch it to off. I haven't hooked it to a meter yet but I know none of my systems work with it off and no shore power.

I wouldn't store the rv too long with the factory switch in "disconnect", you'll likely come back to dead batteries. The original DOES NOT totally disconnect all parasitic drains, the LP/CO detector, in some cases electric slide motors & clock memories are all connected directly to the batteries, disconnecting battery cables is a sure way to completely disconnect or wire a disconnect on the negative cable going directly to ground.

JRTJH
07-09-2021, 07:11 AM
I wouldn't store the rv too long with the factory switch in "disconnect", you'll likely come back to dead batteries. The original DOES NOT totally disconnect all parasitic drains, the LP/CO detector, in some cases electric slide motors & clock memories are all connected directly to the batteries, disconnecting battery cables is a sure way to completely disconnect or wire a disconnect on the negative cable going directly to ground.

That is correct, or at least it has been in past model Keystone trailers....

If you think about it for a moment, IF the trailer is "completely disconnected, with no power" then you couldn't "wake up the In-Command system with your smart phone from the house". The "In-Command system," like the older "remote control system" must be "in the standby mode (electrically connected) if it has the capability to "wake up and make things happen"....

So, AFAIK, any trailer with a "sleep function" or a "remote control" or a "In-Command system" is, at least partially energized unless the battery is completely disconnected from the trailer.

I have not yet seen a Keystone trailer with a "true battery cutoff switch" that was wired that way by the factory.

Disclaimer: There may be some trailers that have a "true disconnect" but I have not seen any wired that way from the factory.

LHaven
07-09-2021, 11:18 AM
I would never expect my inCommand system to work despite the battery disconnect switch, and I would be surprised at people who did. I understand the propane/CO detector has to stay active for "saaaaaafety" (legal) reasons, but I don't like it. If I'm camping in it, I won't have the disconnect switch disconnected, and if I'm not, the propane/CO detector is irrelevant.

flybouy
07-09-2021, 12:42 PM
I would never expect my inCommand system to work despite the battery disconnect switch, and I would be surprised at people who did. I understand the propane/CO detector has to stay active for "saaaaaafety" (legal) reasons, but I don't like it. If I'm camping in it, I won't have the disconnect switch disconnected, and if I'm not, the propane/CO detector is irrelevant.

I'm guessing the legal team would want to cover all bases. If you are connected to shore power with bat switch off then the converter would power the 12 vdc devices. Let's say there's an electrical fire or lightning strike and the converter fails , you could be asleep without that "saaaaafty" device.

LHaven
07-09-2021, 01:20 PM
If you are connected to shore power with bat switch off

Well, sure, but why would I ever camp like that? There's about as much chance of that as there is of the propane detector itself just breaking.

flybouy
07-09-2021, 01:38 PM
Well, sure, but why would I ever camp like that? There's about as much chance of that as there is of the propane detector itself just breaking.

I'm guessing they (Keystone legal team) didnít consult you because it's not all about you and you're camping habits. I'm guessing you wouldn't use a blow dryer while taking a shower yet your blow dryer will have that warning label on it.

Truth is no one here knows why the BCO is wired that way but I doubt that it was done "just to annoy someone". Maybe a homeless addict broke into a camper and started a fire and Keystone was sued? We donít know but I do know litigation sows the seeds for much of these things.

sourdough
07-09-2021, 02:34 PM
Here's a little video explaining the Keystone giggy box. At about the 1:30 mark he says it disconnects everything in the trailer except the breakaway switch... So Stacyismetoo probably has a problem that the dealer needs to look at. Does sound better than the old hodge podge of wires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWC4bJacArQ

machz
07-12-2021, 06:52 AM
I'm new at this so I'm not saying you are wrong but how would shutting the box off drain the batteries ? I know when it's off nothing in the RV works, it appears to kill everything so nothing has power.

travelin texans
07-12-2021, 07:26 AM
I'm new at this so I'm not saying you are wrong but how would shutting the box off drain the batteries ? I know when it's off nothing in the RV works, it appears to kill everything so nothing has power.

It DOES NOT kill everything when off/disconnected! Yes the big items like your lights, fridge, furnace, all the stuff you would easily notice not working won't work, but not the LP/CO detector, radio clocks & slide motors & your batteries WILL be dead in as little as a few days, depending on battery condition, unless the negative cable is removed from the battery or rewire the disconnect to totally remove battery power.

machz
07-12-2021, 09:13 AM
It DOES NOT kill everything when off/disconnected! Yes the big items like your lights, fridge, furnace, all the stuff you would easily notice not working won't work, but not the LP/CO detector, radio clocks & slide motors & your batteries WILL be dead in as little as a few days, depending on battery condition, unless the negative cable is removed from the battery or rewire the disconnect to totally remove battery power.




I see what you are saying but with this box off none of the things you have listed have power. Clocks , radio, slides and the detector do not work as they have no power. In command sends a message saying DC is offline. I have had it off for over a week and turned it on this weekend to load things and the battery was fine.


I just wanted to make sure because my dealer told me to turn it it off to disconnect the battery if I was going to store it for a while.

LHaven
07-12-2021, 11:28 AM
Let me try to clarify.

Shutting the battery "off" using the Keystone-supplied disconnect switch doesn't disconnect all the drains. In particular, the propane/CO detector stays powered, and in some rigs, the radio clock. However, the switch WILL prevent the shore-power converter from charging the battery. Result: the battery eventually dies.

Shutting the battery off by disconnecting a terminal, or installing your own shutoff switch at a terminal, will disconnect all charging and discharging. Then your battery is subject only to shelf life, climate, and evaporation issues.

travelin texans
07-12-2021, 11:46 AM
Unless Keystone very recently has changed the way they wire the factory disconnect it will not disconnect all parasitic drains & if left in storage for an extended period you will have dead batteries.
Just FYI most of the folks selling RVs have never spent a night in one nor towed it across the street so take their advice with a grain of salt. Most of the folks on this forum have been rving for 40+ years & would take any advice from them as factual from those years of experience.

LHaven
07-12-2021, 12:52 PM
Well, I see a new point of confusion here. The Giggy Box has a battery disconnect switch that isn't the stand-alone paddle key switch that Keystone used to mount. The guy on the video says (twice!) that it shuts off ALL the 12V loads. But does it really, or is he shading the truth like with the old switch? Not having a new Giggy Box, I don't know.

flybouy
07-12-2021, 01:20 PM
When I open the link Chuck supplied the impression I get from looking at the photo looks like it disconnects everything except the breakaway switch and the solar charger. If you look at the main red wire comming into the box (main pos battery cable?) It connects to what appears to be a bus bar. I'm guessing the next wire down is for the breakway switch and below that a larger red wire with an in-line fuse which I'm guessing is the feed from a solar panel.

That would leave all the mini breakers being feed on the switched side of that disconnect switch via a bus bar. This is my impression from what I can see. Obviously without aftual access to one there's no way to verify. From the looks of it I like the neatness and design.

sourdough
07-12-2021, 03:07 PM
I don't believe the new giggy box is like the old disconnects we are used to. Looking at the pictures and watching the video it looks very much like it shuts it all down except the breakaway switch - which means they are doing what so many have wished they would do from the start apparently.

jasin1
07-12-2021, 03:32 PM
Who named it a giggy box?

machz
07-13-2021, 03:42 AM
I went to my RV last night to verify and from what I can see it disconnects "Everything" I can test in the RV. None of the outlets work, none of the lights work, none of the appliances work, the green light goes off on the CO2 detector, the light on the incommand panel in the front storage goes off and the incommand goes dark and sends a message to my phone saying it's offline. I have had my giggy box off for over a week and my battery is at 12.6-7 after a week.

machz
07-13-2021, 03:51 AM
Unless Keystone very recently has changed the way they wire the factory disconnect it will not disconnect all parasitic drains & if left in storage for an extended period you will have dead batteries.
Just FYI most of the folks selling RVs have never spent a night in one nor towed it across the street so take their advice with a grain of salt. Most of the folks on this forum have been rving for 40+ years & would take any advice from them as factual from those years of experience.


I appreciate the information and I totally understand what you are saying about the dealers and the people here. The problem is most people here do not have the new disconnect and are just assuming that it doesn't disconnect the power like some of the old controllers. I called Keystone and they verified that the box was designed for an easy way to disconnect during long term storage. I specifically asked if it disconnected any parasitic draw and they confirmed it did. They did mention solar and the disconnect but they said the draw was next to nothing during storage.


Thanks again for your input as a new RV I appreciate the help.

sourdough
07-13-2021, 05:24 AM
I appreciate the information and I totally understand what you are saying about the dealers and the people here. The problem is most people here do not have the new disconnect and are just assuming that it doesn't disconnect the power like some of the old controllers. I called Keystone and they verified that the box was designed for an easy way to disconnect during long term storage. I specifically asked if it disconnected any parasitic draw and they confirmed it did. They did mention solar and the disconnect but they said the draw was next to nothing during storage.


Thanks again for your input as a new RV I appreciate the help.



Yes, the giggy box throws some curves vs what everyone is used to as a disonnect in an RV. Used to RVs didn't have a disconnect, then they did but left all the parasitic draws. As much as I'm in and out of RVs I was not aware of the giggy box.(but didn't know to ask either).

Sounds like the description you gave is exactly what this box is supposed to do and I suspect it will be a welcome advance. I tried to run down a "release" date but best I could do was maybe somewhere around March (Feb.?) they put it out so yes, it is just now getting into owners' hands and most have not seen it. I will be finding my service manager so we can compare notes on them as they sound like a good deal (I hope).

LHaven
07-13-2021, 06:30 PM
I specifically asked if it disconnected any parasitic draw and they confirmed it did.

Disconcerting, just like all of the vaccine/masking 180įs we've seen this year.

I mean, I like this implementation. I think it's the way things ought to be.

But doesn't it mean that all the excuses we've been fed up until now about "leaving the detector powered is a saaaaaafety thing," and "the lawyers demanded it in case of hobo infestation," were... well, crap? :mad:

flybouy
07-14-2021, 01:59 AM
Disconcerting, just like all of the vaccine/masking 180įs we've seen this year.

I mean, I like this implementation. I think it's the way things ought to be.

But doesn't it mean that all the excuses we've been fed up until now about "leaving the detector powered is a saaaaaafety thing," and "the lawyers demanded it in case of hobo infestation," were... well, crap? :mad:

Maybe, maybe not. From what I recall on the subject I think it's been said many times that no one "has inside info" so we tend to go with what's the logical reason it was made that way. Happens all the time in life. So just as "we didnít know then", we "don't know now" why the change. I could think of several "possabilities" The advertising states it's in response to customers wants so that's all we have to go on, unless you have some "confidential Keystone internal memos" that you'd like to share.

LHaven
07-14-2021, 02:58 AM
Well, I've always said that my opinion was that a turn off switch ought to turn things off. Maybe Keystone does in fact listen to the way I prefer to use my camper.

flybouy
07-14-2021, 03:24 AM
Well, I've always said that my opinion was that a turn off switch ought to turn things off. Maybe Keystone does in fact listen to the way I prefer to use my camper.

If they do can you pass along the few hundred suggestions the rest of us have?:)

Falcon67
09-27-2021, 01:03 PM
New 2021 220RD owner - noted ours didn't come with the shutoff. After reviewing the above, I'm just going to buy a nice big Moroso shutoff like I use on my race car and fab a mount. Done.

jxnbbl
10-08-2021, 03:25 AM
I have a giggy box on my new trailer. I'm currently researching this to find out if the solar prewiring is fused, and it looks like it is as I have the solar wire connected to the options #5 (think that is the number) in the box. So I don't have to put the inline fuse between the battery/controller as it looks like an auto reset automotive fuse is in place in the box itself.



I found this video more complete than others. There seems to be only 2 continuous connections to the trailer with the power shutoff.


1. the emergency brake

2. the solar connection


https://m.facebook.com/KeystoneRV/videos/welcome-to-solar-101-we-have-heard-your-requests-have-seen-the-massive-interest-/827848341185530/?_se_imp=0Lk2enEbn5dPl0Ph6

Falcon67
10-08-2021, 05:34 AM
That's a really basic video LOL.

I've requested a wiring diagram of our trailer so I can get a better view of how they have things hooked up. Gut feel is that to add a second battery and insure proper charging, I'm likely going to have to carry the output of the converter/charger all the way to the front battery mount, or buy a charge management device to insure both batteries charge properly.

All the "solar" on this trailer is the SAE plug. If I add solar, I'm going to wire it as a completely independent system including panel(s) and mounts, MPPT controller, wiring, fuse/breakers, etc.

jxnbbl
10-08-2021, 10:32 AM
I just posted the video as it seemed to answer some of the 'I think' answers in the thread and seems to be the only single source that I could find that answered them. If you get a wiring diagram for the giggy box it would be great.



I can tell from dissecting what is visible that the shutoff does have a 'bypass' for the brakes as well as the solar connection. The solar connection in my case is not the new solarflex, but the pre-wired OTG package for zamp equipment. This has the battery to compartment wiring as well as the compartment to root cap connector for the panels in addition to the little solar SAE connector, which I have but will not use/connect to.


For this the standard starting kit just comes with a 30A controller and with 2 12V batteries in parallel it will just be one large battery. You are correct in you would have to bypass this if you got a dual battery controller. (which I do not have currently).

Falcon67
10-08-2021, 05:06 PM
Keystone says the 220RD comes "solar prepped" and customer service says its based on the Zamp products. There is no other wiring I can find on the unit, other than the SAE connector. Nothing on the roof, nothing in the pass through. No prep for an inverter, nothing. The SAE goes right into the Giggy box.

German Shepherd Guy
10-08-2021, 06:27 PM
I am so old fashioned. I just wired a disconnect switch ( an old fashioned blade type) to the negative on my batteries. When it is "open" I am off of ALL DC power. I just flip the blade back into place when I am using the TT and Bingo! I have DC electric again. Cost 5.00 or so but doesn,t have a cool name like "Giggy Box". I call mine "Fred Box".

flybouy
10-08-2021, 07:10 PM
I am so old fashioned. I just wired a disconnect switch ( an old fashioned blade type) to the negative on my batteries. When it is "open" I am off of ALL DC power. I just flip the blade back into place when I am using the TT and Bingo! I have DC electric again. Cost 5.00 or so but doesn,t have a cool name like "Giggy Box". I call mine "Fred Box".

I'd call it "politician", they seem to be disconnected from reality but once they are turn on they stay connected forever.:hide:

German Shepherd Guy
10-09-2021, 04:41 AM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Now that IS funny and I don't care what side you are on.
:cool:

jxnbbl
10-10-2021, 04:03 AM
Keystone says the 220RD comes "solar prepped" and customer service says its based on the Zamp products. There is no other wiring I can find on the unit, other than the SAE connector. Nothing on the roof, nothing in the pass through. No prep for an inverter, nothing. The SAE goes right into the Giggy box.


In many/most (?) Keystones (1) "solar prep" translates into a outside port usually around the A frame for a trailer that you could plug in some suitcase panel. The option for the more "off the grid" packages would have something on the itemized option like - (2) inverter/solar panel prep, two temp covers over wiring in the front compartment with that labeling and a sticker near on the circuit breaker box with Zamp prepped (or something like that). (3) The last is the new solar flex option which they have preinstalled a panel, the controller and wired to the batteries.


In my case, I have both - #1 and #2



With the Gigi box, I don't know where the #1 port it wired since I won't use it...but will look sometime this week. I have #2 and I have not physically seen #3. But like I said #2 is prewired to the (no5) solar breaker (optional) in the box which, as with the breakaway switch (no2), these are wired to the battery side of the switch. I imagine the "solar option" #1 is NOT wired to that switch side of the "inside power".



There are 3 interesting items to me with this box so *if* you get the wiring diagram it would help make the last decision - where to wire my TPMS repeater. In my old setup it was direct to the battery with a override switch to turn if off/on.


thanks

Falcon67
10-12-2021, 05:23 AM
I'll share if I get anything, so far no response from customer service. I'm slowly finding time to tear into this thing to figure out how it it's put together. The Owner's Manual is so generic you can't glean a lot from it. Trying to find time to pull panels and get model/serial numbers off things.

Falcon67
10-12-2021, 01:56 PM
Update - there will be no wiring diagram provided. "Due to rapid changes in production." As a guy that spent 20 years in manufacturing - nah, you don't wing it or make production changes on models so fast you don't document. The design engineer ain't building trailers, they have to be handing somebody a print.

LHaven
10-13-2021, 12:04 AM
I don't think anybody mentioned, but Keystone's newsletter last week(?) featured a video with Brad Giggy (https://www.facebook.com/KeystoneRV/videos/the-keystone-innovation-lab-would-like-to-introduce-you-to-one-of-our-keystone-e/3120983634892860/?__so__=permalink&__rv__=related_videos), designer of the Giggy Box.