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Ccmano
10-21-2020, 02:51 PM
Can't say I've ever seen this before. Went to winterize my 2020 Cougar 24SABWE and walked to the back where the spare sits. At first I thought an animal had chewed up the cover. Then noticed tire cords sticking out! Removed the cover and saw the tire (it's brand new, never been on the ground) ruptured from the inside out with tire cords sticking out. My guess is the cord structure was defective and direct sun on the tire with 80psi (cold) in it caused the pressure to build and rupture. Still it shouldn't happen! Glad I didn't have to actually use the spare! So off to the dealer to see what they will do....:facepalm: should be interesting. ��
Has anyone seen this before?
H

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50514627721_937eef3403_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jXNEVg)

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50514627751_c344d8384a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jXNEVM)

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50514627726_e83eed6814_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jXNEVm)

notanlines
10-21-2020, 02:57 PM
Interesting, but even more so if the tire brand, manufacturer, date of birth...(build date) were known. Odds are your dealer will tell you to 'sit on it and spin.' Try the tire dealer if you get no help. By the way, your tires build date is usually on the back side, a four digit number, i.e. 2618. This would mean the 26th week of 2018.

nellie1289
10-21-2020, 03:00 PM
a good reminder to get those junk tires that came with your trailer off immediately, get some carlisles, and put the old trailer king junk(assume) on craigslist.

Ccmano
10-21-2020, 03:05 PM
Good point, I'll check the tire make and build date and post them. It is a Trailer King I believe. My guess is the dealer will be of little help, but who knows.
H

dwall
10-21-2020, 03:38 PM
Not sure what caused it but my brother had one do the same thing under his Toyota pickup. It was less than a year old. I would love to know the cause. My 99 Chevy still has the factory spare under it and never had a problem.

sourdough
10-21-2020, 03:48 PM
Can't say I've ever seen this before. Went to winterize my 2020 Cougar 24SABWE and walked to the back where the spare sits. At first I thought an animal had chewed up the cover. Then noticed tire cords sticking out! Removed the cover and saw the tire (it's brand new, never been on the ground) ruptured from the inside out with tire cords sticking out. My guess is the cord structure was defective and direct sun on the tire with 80psi (cold) in it caused the pressure to build and rupture. Still it shouldn't happen! Glad I didn't have to actually use the spare! So off to the dealer to see what they will do....:facepalm: should be interesting. ��
Has anyone seen this before?
H

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50514627721_937eef3403_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jXNEVg)

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50514627751_c344d8384a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jXNEVM)

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50514627726_e83eed6814_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jXNEVm)



You might refer this "incident" to TBC Corp. for their resolution/guidance.

https://www.tbccorp.com/

LHaven
10-21-2020, 04:09 PM
Good point, I'll check the tire make and build date and post them. It is a Trailer King I believe.

So now they're "China Time Bombs" too. :facepalm:

Sarge2
10-21-2020, 04:12 PM
I'd be curious to know how much pressure it would take to do that? How warm in your area was it getting? At 80psi the pressure would have to rise substantially in that tire to cause that... unless of course the tire was defective in the first place..
After I bought mine I took tire off the mount and inspected it to make sure it didn't seem to have any bulges or waves in the sidewall or splits in the tread areas... Mine has Trailer Kings on it... wish they were 15" but they are 205 75R 14's.... Hate to think about changing wheels but I'm not convinced that 14" tires belong on this trailer...and there isn't much of a selection of tires for 14" the 14" wheels are sharp looking but safety comes first...

rhagfo
10-21-2020, 04:17 PM
So now they're "China Time Bombs" too. :facepalm:

LOL! :lol:

Ccmano
10-21-2020, 04:33 PM
Since I last parked the trailer temps have not been over 90' degrees. Mostly low to mid 80's and now 70's. Even if the ambient temp had been in the 100's with direct sunlight on the tire this should not happen. There wasn't even any load on it.
H
:cool:

Ccmano
10-21-2020, 04:37 PM
You might refer this "incident" to TBC Corp. for their resolution/guidance.

https://www.tbccorp.com/

Thanks! I will...
H
:cool:

Javi
10-21-2020, 04:47 PM
All I have is. That's cool

LHaven
10-21-2020, 05:27 PM
Since I last parked the trailer temps have not been over 90' degrees. Mostly low to mid 80's and now 70's. Even if the ambient temp had been in the 100's with direct sunlight on the tire this should not happen. There wasn't even any load on it.
H
:cool:

I can't imagine that the working temperature on a spare can be worse than the working temperature on a rolling tire in the same vicinity on the same day; and even though you weren't rolling yours, other people were.

Gegrad
10-21-2020, 05:38 PM
Wow! Can't say I have ever seen that.

flybouy
10-21-2020, 06:17 PM
Looks like they forgot to put the pin back in the handle on that grenade.

sourdough
10-21-2020, 07:03 PM
OK, after looking at that pic of the spare all evening, and it being so "odd"...are we sure that the black cover isn't showing the long hair of an "older one" whose head just exploded over ??? and their hair is sticking out :confused::flowers:

travelin texans
10-21-2020, 07:13 PM
Not sure what caused it but my brother had one do the same thing under his Toyota pickup. It was less than a year old. I would love to know the cause. My 99 Chevy still has the factory spare under it and never had a problem.

Don't think I'd use that 21 year old spare under that Chevy.

Bill-2020
10-21-2020, 07:48 PM
What are the chances that happened right on top? This looks too strange to me. Yeah it’s a Tire King, but still. Are you sure someone didn’t come by with a buck knife in hand, stab straight down, and slice and tug on it to destroy it? When you said you “went to winterize” I took that as the trailer is in storage?

flybouy
10-22-2020, 05:58 AM
One question that I guess the answer to. Have you ever checked the air pressure in that spare? Anything is possible including someone at the dealer pumping that tire up to 100+ psi thinking they are doing you a favor in case it "leaks down". Seems to me that if there was enough pressure for whatever reason that the valve stem would have failed before the tire but like I said, I guess anything is possible.

Bill, your buck knife theory... have you ever tried to slice a tire tread? The sidewall maybe but if someone did a "Rambo" on that tire I wouldn't want to mess with him!

purebred
10-22-2020, 06:15 AM
Back in 1978 bought a new Ford Granada. Lived in Junction city Kansas at the time. Summertime and one morning noticed my trunk on the car was sprung. Tire blew up just like yours and destroyed the trunk deck. This was way before china bombs so it does indeed happen. Also seen a few when working road construction on heavy equipment.

Ccmano
10-22-2020, 06:52 AM
I thought about the knife theory as well. But as has been stated if you've ever tried that you'd see its near impossible to cut through the tread belts of a tire like that. It certainly wouldn't cause the belts to come out as seen here. As for checking the pressure in the spare, yes checked to 80psi before a recent 1000mi round trip. The trailer is in storage but it's a private facility with only 6 other units. Ultimately, we may never know, but to me that's a rupture of a defective tire.
H
:cool:

Bill-2020
10-22-2020, 07:48 AM
Bill, your buck knife theory... have you ever tried to slice a tire tread? The sidewall maybe but if someone did a "Rambo" on that tire I wouldn't want to mess with him!

Nope! Never needed to or felt the urge to slice a tire. I do know that once a puncture starts it can rip itself open more and usually violently due to pressure. So thereís my theory - Rambo or not - its only a theory. But I now see another post about this happening in the trunk of a car. Glad I sold those 1 year old Trailer Kings (that I see I called Tire King... oops! :facepalm:) recently.

JRTJH
10-22-2020, 08:56 AM
Just another "wild theory":

I've got a Craftsman digital air pressure gauge that has a tiny button to switch between PSI, BAR and kpa. It's easy to accidentally change the setting while holding the gauge on a valve stem.... 80 PSI is 5.5 BAR... If a "multiple scale gauge" had been used AND the scale accidentally changed from PSI to BAR, and the tire inflated to 80 BAR, it would have had around 1100 PSI in it...

It would be "very frightening" to have that happen, and the tire might well have exploded with someone standing in front of it, but.... "is it a possibility" ?????

Javi
10-22-2020, 08:57 AM
Just another "wild theory":

I've got a Craftsman digital air pressure gauge that has a tiny button to switch between PSI, BAR and kpa. It's easy to accidentally change the setting while holding the gauge on a valve stem.... 80 PSI is 5.5 BAR... If a "multiple scale gauge" had been used AND the scale accidentally changed from PSI to BAR, and the tire inflated to 80 BAR, it would have had around 1100 PSI in it...

It would be "very frightening" to have that happen, and the tire might well have exploded with someone standing in front of it, but.... "is it a possibility" ?????
I honestly can't see a tire shop with a compressor capable of 1100 psi.. :D

skids
10-22-2020, 05:14 PM
Just another "wild theory":

I've got a Craftsman digital air pressure gauge that has a tiny button to switch between PSI, BAR and kpa. It's easy to accidentally change the setting while holding the gauge on a valve stem.... 80 PSI is 5.5 BAR... If a "multiple scale gauge" had been used AND the scale accidentally changed from PSI to BAR, and the tire inflated to 80 BAR, it would have had around 1100 PSI in it...

It would be "very frightening" to have that happen, and the tire might well have exploded with someone standing in front of it, but.... "is it a possibility" ?????

No. Not possible. :D

sourdough
10-22-2020, 05:28 PM
No. Not possible. :D




You know, I'm not sure. We always say where there is a will there is a way. And from our constant exposure to Amish workmanship I'm not sure they don't have a Goliath compressor pumping 2000psi - for increased production.

Think about it; all those staples blown thru the wall, every screw you can find stripped, the self tapping screws all under your trailer stripped....that has to be it.

Just got my trailer back a couple of days ago and finally had an opportunity to "crawl under it" and pay attention. Underside, J wrap, supports and other paraphernalia SO much better and stronger than my Cougar. Feeling impressed but started to just "look around" under there. Hmmm, HOW do you screw those 1/4" retaining screws in so tight that they actually shred the aluminum wrap? Can the Amish not see, hear or pay attention? It was truly unbelievable. Spent an hour going to the hardware store to get more self tapping screws and fender washers to repair the "flopping" J wrap and other loose pieces. Yep, can't think of anything else other than that 2000psi compressor letting those "craftsmen" inadvertently run a screw, at 2000psi, right thru a piece of aluminum. Once we understand that, we can easily see how they would put 1100psi into an 80psi tire....they just got lucky :( before they sent it out. Now we know the rest of the story....:lol:

Ken / Claudia
10-22-2020, 05:36 PM
Before joining this forum in 2012, on the Artic Fox web site before that people posted lots of spares blow up with cover on. Poster said it was a new tire, well really it was what ever date is posted on the sidewall. If used or not they still rot.
I have checked the siding of my trailer here sitting in the sun. The air temps could be close to 100 and the TT siding was 130- 140 f. Could that be enough temps transferred to the spare sitting inches from the trailer side. I do not keep the spare mounted on the trailer. And I agree spares with covers on them should not blow up, but it has and does.
Common theme heard before was all or most blew up while in the summer and in the south/southwest. Back than the China Bombs on those TTs where named Trail America as I recall.
Unless I missed it we still do not know the age of that tire.

Ccmano
10-28-2020, 03:17 PM
Just as a follow up for those wondering. The tire is a Trailer King, produced in the 43rd week of 2019 as evidenced by the attached photo. There is no circumstance under which I would consider this situation acceptable. I have an appointment with the dealer Friday. I am posting a claim with the tire distributor tomorrow. More to follow...
H

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50542292576_eedc834f0a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k1fsHw)

sourdough
10-28-2020, 03:32 PM
Good luck and keep us posted. Wishing you well but I'm always amazed at the excuses some of these outfits come up with.....

Ken / Claudia
10-28-2020, 04:46 PM
That's the right thing to do, many just move on and the dealer, tire company and government never hear about a problem with a tire.

LHaven
10-28-2020, 05:32 PM
You know, I'm not sure. We always say where there is a will there is a way. And from our constant exposure to Amish workmanship I'm not sure they don't have a Goliath compressor pumping 2000psi - for increased production.

They need lots of pressure so that all those pantry shelves that they staple underneath the end rests instead of on top of them will stay fastened.

Bill-2020
10-29-2020, 05:17 AM
They need lots of pressure so that all those pantry shelves that they staple underneath the end rests instead of on top of them will stay fastened.

You have staples??!! I have sticky bubble gum holding mine on. :eek:

CWtheMan
10-29-2020, 05:42 AM
Just as a follow up for those wondering. The tire is a Trailer King, produced in the 43rd week of 2019 as evidenced by the attached photo. There is no circumstance under which I would consider this situation acceptable. I have an appointment with the dealer Friday. I am posting a claim with the tire distributor tomorrow. More to follow...
H

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50542292576_eedc834f0a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k1fsHw)


Very interesting. Look where that tire was built.

B4 = TAURUS HUNGARIAN RUBBER WORKS - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY

I wonder what percentage of recycled carbon black is allowed to be used in the production of new tires in Hungary?

China about 20%. To be fair, Bridgestone uses 20%.

crk112
10-29-2020, 07:26 AM
I'd be interested in knowing the temp difference under a "dark-colored" or "black" spare tire cover versus a "light-colored" or "white" spare tire cover.



Is it possible the black spare tire cover sitting in the sun every day would cause high enough temperatures to wear out the tire any faster than a white spare tire cover?

ewbldavis
10-29-2020, 07:42 AM
I honestly can't see a tire shop with a compressor capable of 1100 psi.. :D

LOL - my Harbor Freight hotdog barely gets to 100 :D

Good info. I will at least be monitoring my "China Time Bombs" and checking the dates.

Dealer should be cooperative and reach out to Trailer King. My buddy got all 4 of his replaced when 2 showed signs of tread separation (Castle Rocks).

JRTJH
10-29-2020, 08:09 AM
I'd be interested in knowing the temp difference under a "dark-colored" or "black" spare tire cover versus a "light-colored" or "white" spare tire cover.

Is it possible the black spare tire cover sitting in the sun every day would cause high enough temperatures to wear out the tire any faster than a white spare tire cover?

Take a look at post #19 in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37052&highlight=spare+tire+cover&page=2

Bill-2020
10-29-2020, 10:26 AM
Take a look at post #19 in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37052&highlight=spare+tire+cover&page=2

John,
This makes me think about the other four tires... you know the ones kept covered with black vinyl slip covers when at home. Black because they look good and hide the dirt. Hmmm.... guess Iíll be considering white covers for the new Carlisles.

Sarge2
10-29-2020, 10:58 AM
The tire covers I purchased are silver as I considered that last year my TT sat in front of my pole barn all winter... the left side faced south, nearly in full sun all day (when sun was out)... figured silver would reflect some of the heat...took spare off completely and put in the barn.

ND1C
10-29-2020, 12:46 PM
Look at the DOT Date code on the Tire.. If the tire has Never been used but is 5 Yrs old It is still Expired they rot from the inside out. When you replace it look at the Date on the New Tire. Sometimes they go on Sale and then you find the date and see that you did not get a deal.

81SHOVELHEAD
10-29-2020, 05:15 PM
My 2014 Cougar 28RLS came with trailer kings & were replaced in 2020 due to age not wear . Spare had never been put on the ground.

apachewolf
10-29-2020, 06:50 PM
Can't say I've ever seen this before. Went to winterize my 2020 Cougar 24SABWE and walked to the back where the spare sits. At first I thought an animal had chewed up the cover. Then noticed tire cords sticking out! Removed the cover and saw the tire (it's brand new, never been on the ground) ruptured from the inside out with tire cords sticking out. My guess is the cord structure was defective and direct sun on the tire with 80psi (cold) in it caused the pressure to build and rupture. Still it shouldn't happen! Glad I didn't have to actually use the spare! So off to the dealer to see what they will do....:facepalm: should be interesting. ��
Has anyone seen this before?
H

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50514627721_937eef3403_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jXNEVg)

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50514627751_c344d8384a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jXNEVM)

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/65535/50514627726_e83eed6814_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jXNEVm)


Not the same scenario, but it happened to me too. However the tires were 24 years old and had taken us from Chicago to California, sat in the garage for 6 years on the cargo trailer, than took us on 12 trips from California to Arizona and sat an other 6-7 years in an open sun bathed lot until one day I came by and the tire looked exactly like your. Talked to the lot owner and he said it was not that unusual. But again my tires were MUCH older and had run quite some miles.

By the way they were GoodYear tires 15".

Happy camping.

blubuckaroo
10-30-2020, 03:07 AM
I've had this happen, and seen it a few more times, on car hauler trailers, at car shows I attend. It can be quite loud and scary, if you're close by.
It's always been on the spare tire.
It seems to me that since the spare, even with a vinyl cover, is always exposed to the sun. It doesn't get rotated, so the same spot on the tire is always up.

Sunshine does more damage to RV equipment than any other natural exposure.

flybouy
10-30-2020, 05:30 AM
Not the same scenario, but it happened to me too. However the tires were 24 years old and had taken us from Chicago to California, sat in the garage for 6 years on the cargo trailer, than took us on 12 trips from California to Arizona and sat an other 6-7 years in an open sun bathed lot until one day I came by and the tire looked exactly like your. Talked to the lot owner and he said it was not that unusual. But again my tires were MUCH older and had run quite some miles.

By the way they were GoodYear tires 15".

Happy camping.

If I send you some cash will you buy me a lottery ticket? 24 yr old tires????? Criss crossing the country??? You must be the luckiest person on earth.

Tireman9
10-31-2020, 03:43 PM
Just another "wild theory":

I've got a Craftsman digital air pressure gauge that has a tiny button to switch between PSI, BAR and kpa. It's easy to accidentally change the setting while holding the gauge on a valve stem.... 80 PSI is 5.5 BAR... If a "multiple scale gauge" had been used AND the scale accidentally changed from PSI to BAR, and the tire inflated to 80 BAR, it would have had around 1100 PSI in it...

It would be "very frightening" to have that happen, and the tire might well have exploded with someone standing in front of it, but.... "is it a possibility" ?????


the wheel would probably fail if you just increased the inflation. Also I think you would not be able to get greater than 150 psi or so unless you have access to industrial air compressor or manage to plumb an air line directly off a "bottle" of compressed air or N2. You can get there but it has to be intentional.

Tireman9
10-31-2020, 03:48 PM
I'd be interested in knowing the temp difference under a "dark-colored" or "black" spare tire cover versus a "light-colored" or "white" spare tire cover.



Is it possible the black spare tire cover sitting in the sun every day would cause high enough temperatures to wear out the tire any faster than a white spare tire cover?


Hey I was wondering if anyone would get close to the real cause in this thread. I have a couple of posts on my RV Tire Safety blog that show the effects of sunlight on white vs black tire covers and yes a black cover is not good for the tire but people seem to like the look of a black cover.

Tireman9
10-31-2020, 04:00 PM
Take a look at post #19 in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37052&highlight=spare+tire+cover&page=2


Gee you take the fun out of me posting. Oh well.


I can tell everyone that I can make a tire do this almost on command under the right circumstances. I had a project a number of years ago and was able to get two new tires to fail within hours of each other after being on "test" for 18 days. This was not a running test but static, just as the spares seen in this and the referenced post.


This fact is why I did an early post (June 16, 2011) on the topic of white covers. Even posted the temperature numbers.


I would not consider the subject tire to be "defective". It certainly did not fail because of the zip code at the tire plant where it was made. The tires in my test above were made in the USA and as part of my study there were tires from different production plants.

Tireman9
10-31-2020, 04:02 PM
Very interesting. Look where that tire was built.

B4 = TAURUS HUNGARIAN RUBBER WORKS - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY

I wonder what percentage of recycled carbon black is allowed to be used in the production of new tires in Hungary?

China about 20%. To be fair, Bridgestone uses 20%.




I believe the correct plant code is 1A.
Also the tire should say "Made in xxxxx" on the sidewall

jasin1
10-31-2020, 04:28 PM
I was wondering if it was 100% air in it. We used to temp fix low tires with 30 Lb refrigerant bottles Just til we could get it fixed. Also people use starter fluid to seat tires in rims. Probably not the case but I was just wondering

flybouy
10-31-2020, 04:58 PM
In my feeble mind I have a difficult time thinking that black tire covers are the causation for a tire rupture like the OP had. I've seen a lot Jeeps and the vast majority that I've seen have a spare tire hanging out the back with a black cover on it. If it was the tire cover in the sun then I'd think all those desert rats running around in the desert south west would have more spare tire blowouts going on than britches blowing out at a chili eating contest in Texas.

Tireman9
10-31-2020, 07:39 PM
In my feeble mind I have a difficult time thinking that black tire covers are the causation for a tire rupture like the OP had. I've seen a lot Jeeps and the vast majority that I've seen have a spare tire hanging out the back with a black cover on it. If it was the tire cover in the sun then I'd think all those desert rats running around in the desert south west would have more spare tire blowouts going on than britches blowing out at a chili eating contest in Texas.




The issue is not the cover but the fact that a tire under a black cover is aging AT LEAST 4 times faster than a tire in use and in shade or under a white cover. Aging (loss of rubber strength) rate doubles with every increase in temperature of 18F
In my simple test on a day with some clouds I measured a +38F . It might be +50 in clear sky full sun which would make the rate 8 times faster so a 4 year old tire might have rubber with the flexibility and strength of 16 to 32 year old tire. The top is going to be hotter than the bottom so there is the reason for all the tires seen with this condition to have the failure on the top.



The reason for the belt separation in the force of Interply Shear that is in all radial tires. I also cover that in my blog or you can Google Interply Shear tire and find links to technical papers.


This is not Magic folks but basic science.


A simple statement of the tire failed because the top was fully exposed to sunlight and overheated by the use of a black cover that also retained the heat in the tire. This literally baked the life out of the tire.


While I have not examined this tire there appears to be a Nylon overlay which can make a tire more resistant to this type of failure but will not completely eliminate the possibility of failure.




RE Jeeps etc that have a tire on the back. Think this could be a strong contributor to any tire failure early in life when you hear them say I checked the air in my tire but I still had a blowout. Wonder how many moved the spare from the back tailgate to a ground tire.

CWtheMan
10-31-2020, 08:24 PM
I believe the correct plant code is 1A.
Also the tire should say "Made in xxxxx" on the sidewall

Okay, that may be true. Can you tell me where the tire size code is with those numbers/letters???? 1AD B4TRT1

flybouy
11-01-2020, 07:08 AM
The issue is not the cover but the fact that a tire under a black cover is aging AT LEAST 4 times faster than a tire in use and in shade or under a white cover. Aging (loss of rubber strength) rate doubles with every increase in temperature of 18F I was going to ignore this but I feel that since you quoted my lighthearted post the remarks are aimed directly at me. So let's talk about this.

I know it's not the cover itself that could cause this. While I'm not a "self proclaimed Tire Expert" I am an educated man. So give me some credit and don't take EVERY word literally.
In my simple test on a day with some clouds I measured a +38F . It might be +50 in clear sky full sun which would make the rate 8 times faster so a 4 year old tire might have rubber with the flexibility and strength of 16 to 32 year old tire. So the OP lives in Nevada and his spare was just under 2 years old. Are you saying that all those people that live in Nevada need to replace their spare tires every year if they have a factory Keystone black cover on it?
The top is going to be hotter than the bottom so there is the reason for all the tires seen with this condition to have the failure on the top.
Yea, more common sense, I understand heat rises.


The reason for the belt separation in the force of Interply Shear that is in all radial tires. I also cover that in my blog or you can Google Interply Shear tire and find links to technical papers. You seem to reference your "Blog" in nearly every post (I'm talking the body of your p[ost as I see it at the bottom of every post). [COLOR="darkred"][B] I hope this is for clarification and not promotion but after a while it's like seeing someone on television constantly saying "I wrote about this very thing in my new book ..."


This is not Magic folks but basic science. I think I have a pretty good grip on basic science so no need for the condescending tone.

A simple statement of the tire failed because the top was fully exposed to sunlight and overheated by the use of a black cover that also retained the heat in the tire. This literally baked the life out of the tire. I agree that this is a "simple statement" Without actually seeing the tire, opr testing the materials and getting a full history of the tire from day of manufacture, it couldn't be a definitive explanation for the causation of the failure.


While I have not examined this tire there appears to be a Nylon overlay which can make a tire more resistant to this type of failure but will not completely eliminate the possibility of failure.




RE Jeeps etc that have a tire on the back. Think this could be a strong contributor to any tire failure early in life when you hear them say I checked the air in my tire but I still had a blowout. Wonder how many moved the spare from the back tailgate to a ground tire.
I couldn't postulate on this as I don't live or frequent the desert. What I can state emphatically from my experience is what I have observed over several decades. I have kept trailers in storage lots for many decades. Many of the RV trailers that I've seen have the spare tire exposed to the sun.I've seen black and white covers. Now I don't know the amount of heat difference is between from the back tailgate to a ground tire.
I couldn't postulate on this as I don't live or frequent the desert. What I can state emphatically from my experience is what I have observed over several decades. I have kept trailers in storage lots for many decades. Many of the RV trailers that I've seen have the spare tire exposed to the sun.I've seen black and white covers. Now I don't know the amount of heat difference is between the 2 colors. And no, I'm not going to go "read about it on your blog", or anyone else's blog. I'm sorry, I just don't find the subject "riveting enough[ to capture my the 2 colors. And no, I'm not going to go "read about it on your blog", or anyone else's blog. I'm sorry, I just don't find the subject "riveting enough[ to capture my attention. Honestly, I don't think it would be interesting to me if I were stuck in a nursing home and the tv set was broke but that's just me. Others may find it a real "page turner". A blog IMHO is a place for "self proclaimed experts" to voice their opinions without being asked. Some can be very informative and instructional and some not so much. I've not visited yours so I don't know how how beneficial it would be.

So, back to my observations. I would look around and observe the other trailers setting on the lot. Sometimes I would look at the tires and think "Jeez those are dry rotted tires on that rig" and my GUESS would be that they weren't spending money on buying a new spare if they were sporting old tires on the axles. Now stating the obvious difference of desert vs mid atlantic I'm just guessing that maybe, just maybe setting in the sun for 20 twenty years might just be equal to setting in the desert for just under 2 years.

Another life observation ... I have driven more miles in the 50+ years of having a drivers license than I care to think about. I've driven cars & trucks, pulled various trailers with great tires, with recapped tires, and with the cheapest tires imaginable. I experienced a high speed blow out on the back of a passenger van in the late 1970's when the radial tires first appeared and issues with belt shifting were prevalent. Years ago when many large trucks were wearing recapped tires the roads would be littered in the summertime with "road gators"(the failed tire carcass). Don't see that so much anymore. Seems to me like the tire manufacturers have come a long way since the Ford/Firestone issues of years ago. I think the trailer tire manufacturers have been "behind the curve" in their advancements. Again, this is my opinions and observations falling back on common sense deductions.

My comments are in red above.

Tireman9
11-01-2020, 09:29 AM
Okay, that may be true. Can you tell me where the tire size code is with those numbers/letters???? 1AD B4TRT1




Tire size code would normally be character 3 &4 not the size code is not universal so an AB from one company may be a different size than an AB from a different company.
The plant code is universal but again there have been some updates as amny plants have closed. Some decaded ago so a newer list has been published.


This site may be a good one to use
http://www.tiresafetygroup.com/tire-dot-plant-codes-sorted-plant-code/


Here is more info on the DOT code
https://www.tirebusiness.com/article/20180216/NEWS/180219961/dot-issues-65-new-tire-plant-id-codes#utm_medium=email&utm_source=tb-daily&utm_campaign=tb-daily-20180220

Tireman9
11-01-2020, 09:43 AM
My comments are in red above.


Thanks for the comments and observations. Just a couple of my own.


Yes I do reference my blog. With over 400 posts on tires, valves and related topics I find that even with that information out there on the web many people still claim "I have looked everywhere and can't find the answer to my question"


I suppose I could simply do a cut & paste of my posting but sometimes the topic is more technical than many want so I usually try to offer a short summary. Conversely there are those who have decided they aren't interested in my information so why should I fill up this forum with a couple hundred pages of information. I did respond to complaints of providing hot links to the information on my blog but was told that was not allowed. So I started to copy and paste the information but that got me kicked off that forum as there was apparently too much information for the moderators.


I do have a couple of specific comments.
Yes heat rises but the heat from direct exposure to Sunlight is what heats to top of the tire. Both rubber and air are good insulators so there is not a lot of heat transfer from the area heated by the Sun and other areas of the tire.


Wondering how I should reply to statements / questions about the color of the tire cover. If I simply say black is hotter will everyone be satisfied or will the follow up question be "How hot".


How would you explain the chemical reaction rate due to temperature in a sentence of 20 words or less that would be accepted by all readers?


One reason for the variation in failure rate is the variation in the level of Interply Shear due to inflation levels.


So are we good?

CWtheMan
11-02-2020, 03:21 AM
Tire size code would normally be character 3 &4 not the size code is not universal so an AB from one company may be a different size than an AB from a different company.
The plant code is universal but again there have been some updates as amny plants have closed. Some decaded ago so a newer list has been published.


This site may be a good one to use
http://www.tiresafetygroup.com/tire-dot-plant-codes-sorted-plant-code/


Here is more info on the DOT code
https://www.tirebusiness.com/article/20180216/NEWS/180219961/dot-issues-65-new-tire-plant-id-codes#utm_medium=email&utm_source=tb-daily&utm_campaign=tb-daily-20180220

I was using the chart below which says the size codes are standardized.

https://tire-information-world.com/tire-size/

Excerpt from 49 CFR 574.5

(1) First grouping. The plant code, consisting of two symbols, must be the first group of the TIN. The plant code represents the identity of the new tire manufacturer and was previously assigned to the manufacturer by NHTSA.

(2) Second grouping. For new tires, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must be used to identify the tire size. For a non-pneumatic tire or non-pneumatic tire assembly, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must be used to identify the non-pneumatic tire identification code. For retreaded tires, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must identify the retread matrix in which the tire was processed or a tire size code if a matrix was not used to process the retreaded tire. Each new tire manufacturer and retreader must maintain a record of each symbol used, with the corresponding matrix or tire size, which it must provide to NHTSA upon request.

(3) Third grouping. The third group, consisting of no more than four symbols, may be used at the option of the manufacturer or retreader as a descriptive code for the purpose of identifying significant characteristics of the tire. However, if the tire is manufactured for a brand name owner, one of the functions of the third grouping must be to identify the brand name owner. Each manufacturer or retreader who uses the third grouping must maintain a detailed record of any descriptive brand name owner code used, which it must provide to NHTSA upon request.

(4) Fourth grouping. The date code, consisting of four numerical symbols, is the final group. The date code must identify the week and year of manufacture. The first and second symbols of the date code must identify the week of the year by using “01” for the first full calendar week in each year, “02” for the second full calendar week, and so on. The calendar week runs from Sunday through the following Saturday. The final week of each year may include no more than six days of the following year. The third and fourth symbols of the date code must identify the last two digits of the year of manufacture. For example, 0109 means the tire was manufactured in the first full calendar week of 2009, or the week beginning on Sunday, January 4, 2009, and ending on Saturday, January 10, 2009. The date code must be positioned as shown in Figures 1 or 2 for new tires and retreaded tires, respectively

Tireman9
11-02-2020, 01:56 PM
I was using the chart below which says the size codes are standardized.

https://tire-information-world.com/tire-size/

Excerpt from 49 CFR 574.5

(1) First grouping. The plant code, consisting of two symbols, must be the first group of the TIN. The plant code represents the identity of the new tire manufacturer and was previously assigned to the manufacturer by NHTSA.

(2) Second grouping. For new tires, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must be used to identify the tire size. For a non-pneumatic tire or non-pneumatic tire assembly, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must be used to identify the non-pneumatic tire identification code. For retreaded tires, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must identify the retread matrix in which the tire was processed or a tire size code if a matrix was not used to process the retreaded tire. Each new tire manufacturer and retreader must maintain a record of each symbol used, with the corresponding matrix or tire size, which it must provide to NHTSA upon request.

(3) Third grouping. The third group, consisting of no more than four symbols, may be used at the option of the manufacturer or retreader as a descriptive code for the purpose of identifying significant characteristics of the tire. However, if the tire is manufactured for a brand name owner, one of the functions of the third grouping must be to identify the brand name owner. Each manufacturer or retreader who uses the third grouping must maintain a detailed record of any descriptive brand name owner code used, which it must provide to NHTSA upon request.

(4) Fourth grouping. The date code, consisting of four numerical symbols, is the final group. The date code must identify the week and year of manufacture. The first and second symbols of the date code must identify the week of the year by using ď01Ē for the first full calendar week in each year, ď02Ē for the second full calendar week, and so on. The calendar week runs from Sunday through the following Saturday. The final week of each year may include no more than six days of the following year. The third and fourth symbols of the date code must identify the last two digits of the year of manufacture. For example, 0109 means the tire was manufactured in the first full calendar week of 2009, or the week beginning on Sunday, January 4, 2009, and ending on Saturday, January 10, 2009. The date code must be positioned as shown in Figures 1 or 2 for new tires and retreaded tires, respectively




Yes the size code is "standardized" by each tire company but not "standardized" by NHTSA. These are the details I had to live under for years.

wiredgeorge
11-02-2020, 03:41 PM
My comments are in red above.


Marshall, My brain blew up about a page previous. I feel I am going through the 2020 version of Gulliver's Travels where the Lilliput folks are at war over which end of the egg to crack. The word "tire" in a thread title always takes this path.

:popcorn:

flybouy
11-02-2020, 05:19 PM
Marshall, My brain blew up about a page previous. I feel I am going through the 2020 version of Gulliver's Travels where the Lilliput folks are at war over which end of the egg to crack. The word "tire" in a thread title always takes this path.

:popcorn:

:lol::lol:I think we just discovered a non chemical cure for insomnia!:lol::lol: seems to me about 1/2 thru evet "tire" post we get a doctoral thesis on what happened, why it happened, an why it isn't the tire industries fualt.

It does make for some bedtime reading that will put me to sleep faster than a Hot Toddy however. JMHO YMMV

Ccmano
11-10-2020, 02:05 PM
So here's an update. The tire distributor Customer Service dept rep responded to my email inquiry within a day. We also spoke over the phone. They requested a description of what happened, photos and all the codes off the tire. The matter was then turned over to their product liability department. Nothing was heard for a week until I contacted Customer Service again. Product Liability emailed the next day. I provided them with more information via email. On Nov.6th they advised me that the matter had been turned over to the tire mfg. "Dynamic Corp". Nothing since. I plan to follow up tomorrow. I suspect I see where this is going. It's just a question of whether it's worth the fight.

The technical explanation as to why this happened is totally irrelevant to me. As a consumer product it should reasonably fulfill its intended use. It failed to do so within a year of its manufacture and within six months of its purchase. Tire manufacturers and RV companies are fully aware how (in this case) a spare tire is mounted and covered. So either the tire manufacturer provided a defective tire or the tire was not intended to be mounted as a spare in this way by the RV Mfg. Assuming any thought whatsoever went into the process in the first place.

The warranty of this item, given this failure, falls under the Uniform Commercial Code (Implied Warranty for Fitness of Use) We'll see where this goes.

More to follow...
H

Sarge2
11-11-2020, 08:51 AM
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::whistling::wh istling::whistling::facepalm:

Bill-2020
11-11-2020, 11:59 AM
Maybe you’ll get a replacement out of them... but too bad it’ll be their brand you get. Better than nothing, but...

JRTJH
11-11-2020, 12:21 PM
Maybe you’ll get a replacement out of them... but too bad it’ll be their brand you get. Better than nothing, but...

Just thinking out loud: It may not be "better than nothing".... Even if they do "give you a replacement tire" you'll still have to spend money to replace the tire cover and, "if it happens again (same brand replacement tire)" you'll be buying "yet one more" tire cover......

So, like taking home that "gift horse you got for free" you're still going to have to build a barn, buy oats, a shovel to clean out the stall and find some place that needs fertilizer..... Not much in life is "free", whether it's a "gift horse or a "china bomb".....

blubuckaroo
11-11-2020, 05:18 PM
The issue is not the cover but the fact that a tire under a black cover is aging AT LEAST 4 times faster than a tire in use and in shade or under a white cover. Aging (loss of rubber strength) rate doubles with every increase in temperature of 18F
In my simple test on a day with some clouds I measured a +38F . It might be +50 in clear sky full sun which would make the rate 8 times faster so a 4 year old tire might have rubber with the flexibility and strength of 16 to 32 year old tire. The top is going to be hotter than the bottom so there is the reason for all the tires seen with this condition to have the failure on the top. Maybe this is why you wonít find black spare tire covers o



The reason for the belt separation in the force of Interply Shear that is in all radial tires. I also cover that in my blog or you can Google Interply Shear tire and find links to technical papers.


This is not Magic folks but basic science.


A simple statement of the tire failed because the top was fully exposed to sunlight and overheated by the use of a black cover that also retained the heat in the tire. This literally baked the life out of the tire.


While I have not examined this tire there appears to be a Nylon overlay which can make a tire more resistant to this type of failure but will not completely eliminate the possibility of failure.




RE Jeeps etc that have a tire on the back. Think this could be a strong contributor to any tire failure early in life when you hear them say I checked the air in my tire but I still had a blowout. Wonder how many moved the spare from the back tailgate to a ground tire.

I agree, and the silly arguments about this is disappointing. Itís no wonder you canít find a black spare tire cover on the shelf at a Camping World.

Bill-2020
11-11-2020, 06:40 PM
I agree, and the silly arguments about this is disappointing. It’s no wonder you can’t find a black spare tire cover on the shelf at a Camping World.

Actually- you can.

https://www.campingworld.com/elements-tire-cover-pair-630124.html

Or

https://www.campingworld.com/adco-spare-tire-cover-630136.html#q=spare%20tire%20cover&start=2&cgid=covers%2Ftire-covers

blubuckaroo
11-12-2020, 03:46 AM
Actually- you can.

https://www.campingworld.com/elements-tire-cover-pair-630124.html

Or

https://www.campingworld.com/adco-spare-tire-cover-630136.html#q=spare%20tire%20cover&start=2&cgid=covers%2Ftire-covers

Yes, I've had to order them.
Just try to find them in the Camper World store though.