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gumbyc
09-08-2020, 06:36 AM
I have a 2210RB Passport and would like to know how much antifreeze should I put in my fresh water tank to run through my water lines for winter ? I know I have a hot water bypass system but couldn't find a way to siphon the antifreeze directly into the pump. The owners manual says to pour antifreeze into the water tank and do it that way, however that seems odd that there is no siphon tube. I poured 5 gals in and the pump sounded air locked or that there was not enough fluid for the pump. If it was air locked (if there is such a thing) I don't know why opening up faucets individually didn't fix it. Any help in explaining this would be appreciated. Are there any other passport owners out there that have the same model?

flybouy
09-08-2020, 07:02 AM
Don't pour antifreeze into the FW tank. To start any remaining water will dilute it, it will take a LOT of antifreeze to get the pump to siphon and pump thru the system and leaving that in the FW tank will require a LOT of rinsing/flushing to get it out.

If the FW pump doesn't have a winterization valve then add one. It will install on the suction side of the pump with a valve to choose between using the winterizing hose or the FW tank. Also do not put antifreeze in the water heater.

gumbyc
09-08-2020, 08:02 AM
Don't pour antifreeze into the FW tank. To start any remaining water will dilute it, it will take a LOT of antifreeze to get the pump to siphon and pump thru the system and leaving that in the FW tank will require a LOT of rinsing/flushing to get it out.

If the FW pump doesn't have a winterization valve then add one. It will install on the suction side of the pump with a valve to choose between using the winterizing hose or the FW tank. Also do not put antifreeze in the water heater.
I agree that I shouldn't, but again that's what the owners manual says. I will try to put a siphon hose on it but the pump is in a VERY tight location between two walls. No slack in any of the hoses. That may be why there isn't one. Reading through some of the other owners it seems like they are pouring it in the FW tank also. Bad design regardless when you have to use Gallons of antifreeze to winterize a small amount of hoses.

flybouy
09-08-2020, 08:40 AM
Where is the pump located? Pass thru, in a cabinet?

gumbyc
09-08-2020, 08:59 AM
There is a removable panel in the front left pass through. Right behind it is a panel where the elect cable is stored. It’s also tight where the fresh and city water connections are. A lot going on in a little space.

Schbobby
09-12-2020, 03:33 AM
I have purchased an extra pump inlet fitting and attached a section of tubing to it. Disconnect from tank input on pump, put my hose with fitting on pump, put end in antifreeze bottle and turn on pump! Takes about 2 gallons to get to all faucets! Then pore another bottle into all drains! Good luck!

gumbyc
09-12-2020, 07:09 AM
At a minimum that’s what I would like to do. Better yet I would like to install hoses with shut offs to the inlet and attach a permanent hose with a shut off for the antifreeze. Don’t believe I have enough room to do all that.

KCSA75
09-12-2020, 09:10 AM
I have a kit similar to this on our 29-foot Cougar TT. It takes just less than two gallons of Anti-freeze to fill the system.
https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Fresh-Water/Valterra/P23506LFVP.html

gumbyc
09-12-2020, 11:26 AM
I would guess the end with the plug is the one you use for the antifreeze. That way by turning the levee 90degrees you shut off the feed from the tank and allow the feed to come from the gal jug. If so, is your pump in the same location as mine.

IMASAP
09-12-2020, 11:43 AM
I also have to put my rv antifreeze into my fresh water tank to winterize. I drain it, then put in 5 to 6 gallons of antifreeze. This is enough to get my pump to pick it up. Before I run the water pump , I drain the system by opening the low point drains, then close them when the lines are empty. Then, I connect 25psi of compressed air to my city water inlet and blow out all my lines / faucets. Don't forget things like outdoor kitchen or outside shower. Open each faucet one at a time to blow out.... I repeat this a few times. Then turn on the water pump and fill all lines by opening faucets one at a time.... starting with the highest. Last I do is my black tank rinse, using the hose that attaches to the q/c on my outdoor kitchen faucet. Obviously, your black and grey tanks should already be empty. Oh, also pull the screen out of your city water fill and push on the little tit in there so there can be no water trapped in there also... then put the screen back in. When I'm satisfied everything is covered, I drain any leftover antifreeze out of my water tank. Always leave a little antifreeze in a jug and dump extra in all your traps, just to play it safe.

Reality is, RV antifreeze is cheap..... if you have to put a couple more gallons in to get the pump to pick it up, not that big of a deal. Like you, my pump is in a very small compartment.... not easy to add a winterizing kit. Eventually, I will get to it.

skids
09-13-2020, 02:54 PM
I had a 195rb Jayco and I also used the FW tank for inputting antifreeze. It was simpler than my Bullet because it had a small FW tank and it was easy to completely drain (height to width was more). Also, there was no black rinse and no outside shower or kitchen.

The Bullet is different with larger tanks. (Less height to width ratio) That means if she is off level a little, there will be some water left over in the FW tank. That complicates things with antifreeze.

gumbyc
09-13-2020, 04:13 PM
I’m fortunate to have fw tank drain and hw and lot point drain. Regardless it’s still painful to put 7 gals antifreeze in the tank and then have to waste it in the spring.

blubuckaroo
09-20-2020, 09:16 AM
I see you're in Denver, so anti freeze is a good idea.
I checked with my local dealer to find out what they do for winterizing, and followed their lead. They just drain the water heater, blow out the lines with compressed air, and fill the traps with anti freeze. Only takes a couple quarts.
It all depends on your climate.

skids
09-20-2020, 09:30 AM
I see you're in Denver, so anti freeze is a good idea.
I checked with my local dealer to find out what they do for winterizing, and followed their lead. They just drain the water heater, blow out the lines with compressed air, and fill the traps with anti freeze. Only takes a couple quarts.
It all depends on your climate.

That wont protect the water pump IMHO.

Gunny Mike
09-20-2020, 12:35 PM
Last year we ran air through all of the lines for our Outback for the first time. We had no problems. I just add a gallon to each holding tank and add some for the trap for each sink plus the shower.

baughboy
09-20-2020, 04:20 PM
I have a 2015 Bullet 287QBS, I put 6 gallons into the fresh water tank and run it thru the system. Winters here in Ohio tend to get quite cold, and at around $3 per gallon, I trust that much more than blowing out the lines. I have not experienced the "airlock" you mention, I only use the freshwater tank for the antifreeze delivery each winter.

05Fatboy
09-21-2020, 04:07 AM
The only thing I don't see mentioned is be sure you get anti-freeze in the flush valve on the toilet.

Greg L
09-22-2020, 08:26 AM
You donít really have to put any antifreeze in your fresh water tank. You need a clear hose and a fitting for your water pump. And 1 4liter jug of RV antifreeze

jvbutter01
10-01-2020, 06:16 PM
ok, time for the stupid question.... are you refereeing to
https://www.campingworld.com/freeze-ban--50%C2%B0f-rv-marine-antifreeze-1-gallon-57726.html
type... propylene glycol vs what you put in your car.. ethylene glycol.

some descriptions say to put in marine engines, so its got me a bit puzzled.

gumbyc
10-01-2020, 06:26 PM
No auto antifreeze. We are talking about Rv safe to put in your fresh water system. The main reason for the thread was at the time I had no way to pump antifreeze through my water system except pouring 5-7 gals of Rv antifreeze in my main water tank and then run the pump.I installed the kit KCSA75 recommended and it works great. No more need to waste gallons into the tank. I just can draw what I need directly out of the gallon jug. The way most rv’s are set up.

flybouy
10-01-2020, 07:00 PM
ok, time for the stupid question.... are you refereeing to
https://www.campingworld.com/freeze-ban--50%C2%B0f-rv-marine-antifreeze-1-gallon-57726.html
type... propylene glycol vs what you put in your car.. ethaline glycol.

some descriptions say to put in marine engines, so its got me a bit puzzled.

The link you have there is correct. The important factor is that it states that is safe for potable water. As far as marine engine use there are basically 2 types of cooling systems for marine engines. One is called "raw water cooling" where the engine uses the water the boat sets into pump thru the engine directly for cooling. Most commonly found on outboards.

Many inboard marine engines use "fresh water cooling" where the system is much like a car engine cooling system only instead of the air cooling the automotive antifreeze via a radiator it gets pumped thru an intercooler (heat exchanger) that get's cooled by the water that the boat sets in.

In either marine system you don't want to have automotive antifreeze in the system that is in contact with water that the boat sets in as it's toxic for the environment. So for those marine systems the RV antifreeze is used as it's not toxic.

Long winded explanation but I hope it helps you understand the "marine engine use".

skids
10-02-2020, 05:10 AM
Do not use ethylene glycol in your drinking water system under any circumstances!

jvbutter01
10-02-2020, 06:11 AM
Long winded explanation but I hope it helps you understand the "marine engine use".
yes i do remember when I had my boats.. 1 was cooling system like a car ( closed) the other would take water form the lake, pump it through the motor, and back into the water. So yes I can see why it would need NOT be harmful for drinking / consumption.

Do not use ethylene glycol in your drinking water system under any circumstances!
Yes I do know about ethylene, hence my question.... hello we've all heard the stories about dogs drinking what's dripped on the ground. I've tasted a bit back in the day when working on cars, that stuff was nasty. Hence my confusion about this new to me RV stuff.

flybouy
10-02-2020, 06:55 AM
yes i do remember when I had my boats.. 1 was cooling system like a car ( closed) the other would take water form the lake, pump it through the motor, and back into the water. So yes I can see why it would need NOT be harmful for drinking / consumption.


Yes I do know about ethylene, hence my question.... hello we've all heard the stories about dogs drinking what's dripped on the ground. I've tasted a bit back in the day when working on cars, that stuff was nasty. Hence my confusion about this new to me RV stuff.

Just a note as this RV antifreeze is a new experience for you. Unlike automotive antifreeze, the RV antifreeze will freeze. The difference is the RV antifreeze will turn into a "slushy" substance but it will not expand and therefore will not cause damage. Just thought you should know in case you put some in the deep freeze as a "science experiment".:)

jvbutter01
10-03-2020, 05:44 AM
Just a note as this RV antifreeze is a new experience for you. Unlike automotive antifreeze, the RV antifreeze will freeze. The difference is the RV antifreeze will turn into a "slushy" substance but it will not expand and therefore will not cause damage. Just thought you should know in case you put some in the deep freeze as a "science experiment".:)
funny you mention this... someone on an Amazon feedback post complained about this very thing, put it in freezer and it froze. It almost seems better to just drain all water and leave empty. Except for the fact of drying out any seals inside.

JRTJH
10-03-2020, 06:18 AM
funny you mention this... someone on an Amazon feedback post complained about this very thing, put it in freezer and it froze. It almost seems better to just drain all water and leave empty. Except for the fact of drying out any seals inside.

As Marshall said, it will freeze (or at least get slushy) in below zero temperatures. I keep a 2-3" deep pool of RV antifreeze in my Dometic toilet bowl. In January/February it will freeze, sometimes "solid", but has never caused any damage. The same thing (I'm sure) is happening in the faucets, the P-traps and the Hepvo valves as well as in the holding tanks, "right next to the dump valves"...

The "saving grace" for RV antifreeze is that even though it does "freeze solid" (just like water does), it doesn't expand when frozen (unlike water) so when it freezes solid, it won't "expand and crack the fixture around it"....

As for using air to "empty the plumbing system"... Can you ever be sure that you've blown out all the water (or enough of the water that it won't pool in a low spot and freeze, expand and destroy that "low point location" within the plumbing system.... Compressed air to push water out of the plumbing is a "great first step" but in "super cold climates" it often is not enough to assure complete protection. After blowing out the water (which assures minimal dilution of the antifreeze in the next step), then the introduction of the antifreeze assures "maximum undiluted antifreeze" in the plumbing, providing the maximum protection.

In many areas of the US, where extreme low temperatures aren't a problem, then "blowing out the system" should provide sufficient protection. But, in extremely cold areas, IMHO, it's much better to spend the $5 on a couple gallons of antifreeze, the 15 minutes of time/effort and assure protection.... In the long run, if it protects the plumbing, that $5/15 minutes could easily save $500 in repair costs.... YMMV.

flybouy
10-03-2020, 07:20 AM
To John's point how "dry" is your compressed air"? I doubt the "typical" driveway mechanic is using a water seperator much less an air dryer on their air supply. If you want to do a "Sid the science guy" experiment it's easy.

Take two identical sealable containers. Empty pill bottles, empty spice bottle, anything small and sealable. Fill one with antifreeze and one with water. Place both in a pan or container to catch any spillage and place it in the freezer. The one with the water will be expanded, most likely to the point of fracturing. The one with the antifreeze may freeze but the bottle won't be expanded.

jvbutter01
10-04-2020, 07:50 AM
To John's point how "dry" is your compressed air"? I doubt the "typical" driveway mechanic is using a water separator much less an air dryer on their air supply. .
you have a point about air accumulating in your compressor lines. I doubt there is enough to actually collect at single location, then freeze, and cause damage. Its typically a pretty small amount, have you looked at a inline filter? I have one.